Talk:Never Rarely Sometimes Always

Requested move 14 January 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 03:12, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Never, Rarely, Sometimes, Always → Never Rarely Sometimes Always – The title of the film is Never Rarely Sometimes Always - without commas. Google search pulls from high traffic sites like wikipedia and we'd like for people to note see an incorrect title. See official site for source Kirstin01 (talk) 23:13, 14 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nomination. The film's IMDb entry does not use commas and, judging by the trailer, neither do the on-screen credits, If consensus decides to delete the commas and the on-screen credits turn out to use the commas, I would vote for their restoration. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:23, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and official site – there's also no comma in the trailer. —МандичкаYO 😜 04:56, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination, trailer, and site. —Duckboogie (talk • contribs) 08:18, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Support The IMDb page doesn't contain commas in the title — Jacvierra (talk • contribs) 06:34, 15 January 2020 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Duckboogie (talk • contribs)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Incorrect plot comment
The plot states: "At the Planned Parenthood clinic, Autumn learns that the crisis pregnancy center lied to her about how far along she was and that she is actually 18 weeks pregnant." This is actually not true.

The times expressed here will depend on the film version, but around minute 19, during the sonogram scene, the physician at the crisis pregnancy center in Pennsylvania tells Autumn: "You are about ten weeks long. Hard to say precisely but everything looks pretty normal." No further comment or reference is made about the sonogram.

Later on, around minute 43, Autumn visits Planned Parenthood at Brooklyn and a facilitator explains to her that she is 18 weeks pregnant. Autumn tells the facilitator that she had a previous sonogram and according to that examination she was 10 weeks pregnant. The facilitator explains to her that it can certainly be some margin of error but only between 3-4 days range and only tells Autumn: "I've got the feeling that it was inaccurate".

Around minute 55, Kelly, the counsellor, discussed with Autumn the second sonogram, and the conversation is this:

-Kelly: So, you had a sonogram at the Planned Parenthood in Brooklyn, and the sonogram showed that you are 18 weeks pregnant. Is that around what you thought?

-Autumn: No.

-Kelly: And how many weeks do you think you are?

-Autumn: I thought I was 10 weeks.

-Kelly: 10 weeks? Ok, that happens sometimes.

After that conversation, they start to discuss the abortion procedure.

Conclusion: As these are the only references to the first sonogram and none of the four characters aware of it (Autumn, the physician, the facilitator and the counsellor) confirm on-screen that the clinic in Pennsylvania lied to Autumn, then the Wiki quote in the plot that states that “At the Planned Parenthood clinic, Autumn learns that the crisis pregnancy center lied to her about how far along she was and that she is actually 18 weeks pregnant.” is not correct as there is not any evidence in the film to sustain that claim. The line might be “At the Planned Parenthood clinic, Autumn learns that the sonogram made at the crisis pregnancy center was not accurate and that she is actually 18 weeks pregnant.”

Isn't it?

Response: No it is not. Did the PRC in Pennsylvania lie to Autumn? Yes. A sonogram can identify the gestational age to within 4 to 8 days. . The accuracy of ultrasound is stated in the movie as 4 days, the citations above state it could be up to 8 days... the PRC was different by 8 weeks. The PRC ultrasound technician said it was hard to say. No it is not. She said it was 10 weeks. That would be 10 weeks plus or minus 8 days. That was a lie. When Kelly says "that" happens sometimes what she is saying is that PRC technicians lie sometimes. This is seminal to the whole movie.

Isn't it?

Wiki.12022017 (talk) 13:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Plot restoration edit - 13:51, 10 March 2021‎.
I don't see any comment as to why the plot revision was removed. It is more detailed and accurate. Specifically, the gestational age was not given to Autumn on the first visit and was not determined by the OTC pregnancy test. User who did the edit does not have a user page. Please respond here to discuss.Wiki.12022017 (talk) 13:53, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

You'd message their talk page, not their user page, or simply just ping them here. Also, the material you added is considered padding and unnecessary to the plot. It's also oddly worded and contains viewer assumptions. QueerFilmNerd talk 18:11, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for this and fair enough. I disagree but will leave for someone else to restore. I did reach out by Talk - I didn't realize that was possible without a User page... but then I went and saw they had a page anyway. Not sure where I got that. TLDR: done... thanks. I reformatted the talking points here for clarity and double posted your comments so they are as you wrote them (responded to both points.) Thanks again. Wiki.12022017 (talk) 04:50, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Removal of Kieth Merrill critique. - 13:58, 10 March 2021‎
Why was this deleted? It is cited criticism. Please respond here to discuss. I will try to reach out but the user page doesn't exist.Wiki.12022017 (talk) 13:53, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You'd message their talk page, not their user page, or simply just ping them here. Also, the material you added is considered padding and unnecessary to the plot. It's also oddly worded and contains viewer assumptions. QueerFilmNerd  talk 18:11, 10 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I disagree with this but fair enough. Kieth Merrill incident is fair not sure what the issue was there.Wiki.12022017 (talk) 02:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

I looked this over, edited to remove the passive voice and fixed some punctuation - the rest is fact, germane, important and cited. This is not padding. This film is not getting equal treatment due to viewer assumptions. I am making no assumptions here or in the plot edits - which I will leave for someone else to restore if they see fit.

The quotes are from Kieth Merrill himself. The film is about rape and possible incest (her (step?) father calls her a slut - does not defend her in public when she is called a slut and says her issues are in her head.  Incest is very likely.  Rape is certain given her 2nd intake in New York.)

I cleaned up the the passive voice and punctuation. Thanks for the feedback.

Pre One Academy Award voter, filmmaker Kieth Merrill, refused to screen the film due to its subject matter. He is quoted as having “zero interest in watching a woman cross state lines so someone can murder her unborn child.” Eliza Hittman in response speculated that other voters were also not screening the film due to the subject matter. It's unclear if Merrill understood that the screenplay addressed rape and possible incest when he stated that he does in fact support abortion in some extreme circumstances. His refusal was based on a synopsis that he noted "didn’t meet his criteria of entertainment — or coincide with his personal values."

Post One Academy Award voter, filmmaker Kieth Merrill, refused to screen the film due to its subject matter. He is quoted as having “zero interest in watching a woman cross state lines so someone can murder her unborn child.” Eliza Hittman in response speculated that other voters were also not screening the film due to the subject matter. It's unclear if Merrill understood that the screenplay addressed rape and possible incest when he stated that he does in fact support abortion in some extreme circumstances. His refusal was based on a synopsis that he noted "didn’t meet his criteria of entertainment — or coincide with his personal values." Wiki.12022017 (talk) 04:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)