Talk:New Appomattox Court House

Courthouse
This article states that the courthouse building burned down in 1892 and was not rebuilt within the village of Appomattox Court House but was instead rebuilt at the town of Appomattox, yet someone just posted a current photo of the building. Is that building a reconstruction, a case of mistaken identity, or a photo of the new courthouse in Appomattox? If it is the latter it does not belong in this article. — Joe Kress (talk) 07:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The photo is apparently of the building identified as the Appomattox County Courthouse on the Appomatox Court House National Historical Park Map (except that the photo shows the large tree on the right). Because it burnt and was not rebuilt, I am adding (reconstructed) to the image. The gray buildings on the map no longer exist as confirmed by a Google satellite photo. — Joe Kress (talk) 22:32, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The disputed photo is of the front of McLean House (look at the photo of the rear of McLean House, same size, orientation and trees surrounding it). 142.109.70.187 (talk) 19:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

No. Look at the roofline of the building. The McLean house has a straight roofline in its both historical and current photos whereas that of the courthouse has a distinct slope from its apex down to its chimney in both its historical and current photos. The official map of the park I linked above also shows these sloped vs straight rooflines. Furthermore, the current photo of the courthouse shows two chimneys on one side, which is confirmed by the official map, whereas the McLean House has only one chimney on each end. — Joe Kress (talk) 19:34, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Reasons for the many changes made to the article
The reason for the many changes to the article are:


 * 1. Appomattox Court House is not "a village located three miles (5 km) east of Appomattox, Virginia" - the Appomattox Court House National Historical Park is, which is now a new article.


 * 2. Appomattox Court House is an existing courthouse in Appomattox, Virginia. It is the local county government seat. Sometimes it is referred to as the "new" Appomattox Court House. It is near the Appomattox Station (a new article), while the Appomattox Court House National Historical Park is about 3 miles away.


 * 3. The Old Appomattox Court House, now a new article, was the original courthouse at the village then known as Clover Hill which is now known as the Appomattox Court House National Historical Park.


 * 4. The village of Clover Hill, which today is known as Appomattox Court House National Historical Park, was named after the Clover Hill Tavern, now a new article


 * 5. The history of the McLean house needed to be seperate. It is now a new article and is where General Robert E. Lee surrendered to General Ulysses S. Grant. The Appomattox Court House (old or new) had nothing to do with the surrender.


 * 6. Information on court house towns should go into their appropriate articles or the article on courthouse.
 * --Doug Coldwell talk 12:49, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * However - the typical reader is coming to the page, looking for the "old" courthouse, and has to read through most of the current topic to see that the new topic is unrelated to what they're looking for. Tedickey (talk) 13:40, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.nps.gov/apco/faqs.htm according to the page of the national park, the actual courthouse is "Appomattox Courthouse" (one word), not "Appomattox Court House" (2 words) -- Usyflad 10  23:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * According to this nps.gov website referred to above

In Virginia many of the towns which were county seats were called "Court House". The building is spelled courthouse (one word) and the town is Court House (two words).
 * Previously it said The surrender occurred in the village of Appomattox Court House, Virginia...
 * Therefore I believe the article is correct as it is now.--Doug Coldwell talk 11:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The sentence you quoted is in fact correct, but does not have to do with this page. This page is about the actual courthouse according to the first sentence of the page,
 * The Appomattox Court House is a courthouse in Appomattox, Virginia built in 1892.

It should be
 * The Appomattox Courthouse is a courthouse in Appomattox, Virginia built in 1892.

-- Usyflad 10  00:13, 30 April 2010

Changed to "Courthouse". --Doug Coldwell talk 16:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

How could you change the name of the page?-- Usyflad 10  17:40, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Well.......it may be a little hard to do - since apparently it needs a discussion why the name change. See Village pump (technical). It will be a lot of work to explain to everyone why the need for a name change. However, if you feel it is really necessary, then just follow what the technicians are saying at Requested moves. I suggest to leave it the way it is since typing in "Appomattox Courthouse" in the Search box will get you where you need to be. Otherwise it will be a long drawn out affair.--Doug Coldwell talk 19:21, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

oh ok. I guess it'll be too hard to change the name.-- Usyflad 10  21:52, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


 * FYI, a number of the ACW articles use the name "Court House" as two words because that was the spelling at the time of the war. For example, Appomattox Court House National Historical Park and Battle of Appomattox Court House, or Battle of Spotsylvania Court House. I would not recommend changing those titles. Hal Jespersen (talk) 00:00, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

The Point of this Article
This article appears to be the result of one editor's will imposed against the will of others as well as, indeed, against rationality. Virtually everyone searching Wikipedia for "Appomattox Court House" would be looking for the historic town in Virginia where General Lee surrendered to General Grant. I can't imagine anyone searching Wikipedia for information about the modern, essentially historically-insignificant modern courthouse. If their names were not similar, it would be unlikely that this article about the modern building would even exist. Properly, this article should be about the former town in southern central Virginia, the, site of the surrender of Robert E. Lee to Ulysses S. Grant on April 9, 1865, effectively ending the American Civil War. Virtually deserted after the removal of the county seat to the new town of Appomattox in 1892, it became a national historical monument in 1940 and a national historical park in 1954.Theshoveljockey (talk) 01:19, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll have to agree and go along with what you say. Perhaps the name of this article should be something like "Appomattox courthouse (modern county seat)" and so note at the top of Appomattox Court House National Historical Park. Then when someone searches for "Appomattox Court House" have a redirect to Appomattox Court House National Historical Park. If this sounds logical to you, you won't have any arguements from me if you just go ahead and do it. Any other ideas?--Doug Coldwell talk 12:35, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for

—199.66.70.155 (talk) 15:59, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅. Though you haven't explained what you think is in error, I've emended the coordinates in the article to correspond to the building that this article deals with. Deor (talk) 17:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

The Point of this Article, redux
This article is about the current courthouse. However, look at the list of what links here. Few of those articles are expecting the current county court house building to be the target. What most of them (about 200) are expecting is historical village of Appomattox Court House, site of the battle. It is time to move this page out of the way. I suggest:
 * 1) Rename this article to "New Appomattox Court House"
 * 2) Make a new (short) article for "Appomattox Court House" to discuss its significance, how/why it was named, and providing a launch pad to the battle, restored buildings, or the old, no longer extant building. Yes, its a fat disambiguation page, but it is much better than the wrong page.
 * 3) Leave the redirect for Appomattox Courthouse pointing to the re-purposed Appomattox Court House.
 * 4) Change Appomattox Historic District to use "New Appomattox Court House" where it mentions the 1892 building.

There are other good possibilities, but all of them would involve moving the content of this article elsewhere and using the Appomattox Court House/Appomattox Courthouse name to produce the expected right answer. A more precise answer is to use Appomattox Court House as the village/battle site and Appomattox Courthouse as the pre 1892 and reconstructed buildings, but based on the usage in the articles, editors are using them interchangeably and errors will creep in again over time. Still - almost none of them want the 1892 building. Another choice is to use Appomattox Court House/Appomattox Courthouse names as a standard disambiguation page - but that requires changing 200+ pages and might require a larger consensus.

I think the numbered steps proposal above is simpler and counts as a technical move - Appomattox Court House as the village/battle site is well entrenched in history, and its use on Wikipedia, as seen in the what links here list, is also clear. This article has the wrong name. But, I seek at least a consensus of those watching this page before making a bold move. Generic1139 (talk) 12:16, 9 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Support - the ideas of User:Generic1139 as article creator of Appomattox Court House National Historical Park and 16 related articles including Nebraska House. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:25, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 08:24, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Appomattox Court House → New Appomattox Court House – Per above. And for current title to become a short of disambiguation page.--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 08:46, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Support - per logic of The Emperor&#39;s New Spy. There has been confusion on this for years and the move should alleviate the issue.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Support - yes, this is simple and will reduce the confusion Generic1139 (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I would only support this move if the title "Appomattox Court House" is made a short CONCEPTDAB page with links to the relevant articles. —  AjaxSmack   02:20, 8 August 2015 (UTC) = that is what is being proposed
 * Appomattox Court House should be a redirect to Appomattox Court House National Historical Park. For anyone who knows the first thing about American history, Appomattox Court House is the place Lee surrendered to Grant. This article is about the modern counthouse, a building of interest to residents of Appomattox Country who may intend to file lawsuits. Gulangyu (talk) 05:42, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
 * So Gulangyu you are giving a Support for what is being proposed since "modern" is "new".--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:29, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The proposal is an improvement on the current situation, but it still highly unsatisfactory. I was checking out some other Virginia counties. We don't have articles on their courthouses. This is a building whose only claim to fame is that it has the same name as a famous location. The lemma should direct to the historical park. "New" is a simply a disambiguator, not part of the actual name of this building. To make it all even more confusing, Lee did not actually surrender at a courthouse, new or old. "Appomattox Court House" was the name of the town at that time. Gulangyu (talk) 19:40, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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