Talk:New Guinea singing dog/Archive 7

Take it with a grain of salt
The following excerpt taken from this wiki article on NGSD is misleading. "The reported habitat of the New Guinea Singing Dog consists of mountains and swampy mountain regions of Papua New Guinea at an altitude of 2500 to 4700 meters. The main vegetation zones are the mixed forest, beech and mossy forest, sub-alpine coniferous forest and alpine grassland. Based on archaeological, ethnographic, and circumstantial evidence, it can be assumed that Singers were once distributed over the whole of New Guinea and later restricted to the upper mountains.[8] Since there have been no verified sightings of these dogs in Papua New Guinea since the 1970s, these dogs are either rare, or possibly extinct.[12] There were reports of Singers in the Star Mountains until 1976, and in 1989, Tim Flannery was able to take a picture of a black-and-tan dog in a Dokfuma.[15] In his 1998 book "Throwim Way Leg", Flannery states that Dokfuma (which he describes as subalpine grassland with the ground being sodden moss, lichens and herbs growing atop a swamp) at 3,200 meters elevation had plenty of singing dogs which could usually be heard at the beginning and end of each day. When alone in his campsite one day a group of them came within several hundred meters of him. In 1996 Robert Bino undertook a field study of these dogs, but was not able to observe any wild Singers and instead used signs like scats, paw prints, urine markings and prey remnants to make conclusions about their behavior. There have been reports from local residents that wild dogs have been seen or heard in higher reaches of the mountains.[11] A more recent sighting was the fleeting glimpse of a dog at Lake Tawa in the Kaijende Highlands. Local assistants assured the researchers that the dogs at Lake Tawa were wild-living dogs since there were no villages near that location.[20]" This is particularly misleading,"In his 1998 book "Throwim Way Leg", Flannery states that Dokfuma (which he describes as subalpine grassland with the ground being sodden moss, lichens and herbs growing atop a swamp) at 3,200 meters elevation had plenty of singing dogs which could usually be heard at the beginning and end of each day. When alone in his campsite one day a group of them came within several hundred meters of him. The first question that arises is, "How many is "plenty" and how exactly did Flannery establish that there are "plenty" of them? A person certainly could not count by listening to their howls because a few can sound like many, so sight counting would be the only way, and I think that seeing even one of them is a strain.  Flannery said himself that he only saw Singers one time and that was at a distance of "several hundred metres."  Wow, within "several hundred metres!!"  Does anyone realize the length of "several hundred metres?"  And what exactly is the definition of "several"??  He must have been using a spotting scope or binoculars  He obviously didn't use a camera with a telephoto lens or he'd have taken pictures.  His statement regarding their inability to count is also without any sort of scientific documentation.  There is no possible way he could know the dogs' reasoning in approaching his camp. He also states that Singers were taken to NG 2,000 years ago from islands in the west, so we really have to take his comments about Singing Dogs on page 173 in his book "Throwim Way Leg" with a grain of salt. If, however, there really are "plenty" of NGSD in Dokfuma, then that might be an excellent location to conduct field studies. osm20Oldsingerman20 (talk) 16:12, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Important Links
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/dingo-is-worlds-oldest-dog-with-new-guinea-singing-dog/story-e6frf7l6-1225842216312 This is a link to an article that talks about the 2011 Wilton study. The actual study was published in the scientific journal, "Nature". osm20Oldsingerman20 (talk) 16:58, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

The latest genetic study wherein they established that NGSD and AUD originated in China and went overland to AU was published in the scientific journal "Proceedings of the Royal Society B." as stated in http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/the-dingo-came-to-australia-from-southern-china.htm

I would imagine that copies of either study would have to be purchased from the respective journals. osm20Oldsingerman20 (talk) 17:13, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The paper Mitochondrial DNA data indicate an introduction through Mainland Southeast Asia for Australian dingoes and Polynesian domestic dogs from Proceedings of the Royal Society B. is available here: . Mojoworker (talk) 06:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Good job mojo! You found a free copy. I have read through this study again and again since it's original publication and continue to draw the same conclusions when I combine it's information with the land bridge information found in this Australian Govt. publication: http://www.tsra.gov.au/the-torres-strait/general-history.aspx

The combination of the two information sources place origin of NGSD in NG at from between 8,000 and 18,400 years. osm20Oldsingerman20 (talk) 13:41, 3 December 2011 (UTC)