Talk:New Mexico Lobos men's basketball/Archive 1

Johnson win discrepancy
I have discovered a discrepancy regarding the W-L totals for Roy Johnson. The 2012-13 Lobo media guide (p. 146) gives Johnson's record as 155-146, and lists his first stint as coach as 1920-31. Adding up the results from his years (pp. 147-49), however, renders his record as 165-146. So the guide appears to short him ten wins.

Examining the year-by-year results raises further questions. The '12-13 media guide (p. 146-49) lists the record of Tom Churchill as 23-12, accounting for the '31-33 seasons. This puts the 9-7 record for '30-31 into Johnson's column, giving him 165 wins overall, with 146 losses. The 2009-10 media guide (p. 161-64), however, gives Johnson's record as 155-133 and lists his first stint as 1920-30. It assigns the 9-7 record from 1930-31 to Churchill. Taking that season off Johnson's total above leaves him at 156-139. This still leaves an extra win from what either guide states and leaves the losses way off in both. Another source, Statsheet, also puts his record at 156-139, with the '30-31 season in Churchill's column (WP will not allow a link - google 'statsheet coach roy johnson').

So did Johnson win 155, 156, or 165? Did he lose 133, 139, or 146? This is especially relevant because Steve Alford, at 155 wins, will soon move past Johnson into third all-time, possibly next week. I am researching this issue further, including through the UNM athletic department. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 10:03, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I am changing Johnson's record to 156-139, based on the season records that are consistent in both media guides linked above, as well as on the Statsheet site and in the ESPN history, linked in the article references. If I learn anything further regarding the discrepancy, I will make appropriate adjustments. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 18:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Resolution: I just received a message from the UNM Sports Communications department: "The current guide is correct except under Johnson's mug on p. 146. Johnson's record should be 165-146 for a winning percentage of .531. Tom Churchill indeed coached just two seasons: 1931-32 and 1932-33."  I will correct the article to reflect this information and update further if they provide more. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 17:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Records section
The records section is split into "pre-Bob King" and "1962-present" areas. The first section summarizes the early years, adding emphasis to the drastic turnaround when King arrived. The second section goes into yearly detail up to present. The sortable box for wins and winning percentage leaders is very useful, so I am returning the first table to pre-King era only and reinstating the leaders box, now at the top of the section (otherwise, the Winning Pct leaders are guys who coached 13 and 40 games, during war-truncated seasons.) I am adding explanations of those sections, with source links. A section for individual and team records will be too voluminous for anything more than a summary of the highest profile records. For now I am including a link to the Media Guide section for those records. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 19:33, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Format notes
Pausing before moving into the Alford years, I'm concerned about the size of the page. I will be copyediting to trim some detail, while formatting changes will create some further space: Updating to the newer Media Guide will be a detailed process and will leave some disruptions in ref names along the way. The discrepancies will soon be ironed out. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 01:34, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I was initially direct linking notes to the Media Guide, but that was cumbersome and took up too much space. One reason I was doing that was the on-line '12-13 guide is split into several pieces. I am in the process of updating to the '13-14 guide, which is all in one file. That will be linked in its first cite in the Notes, and listed and linked among References, per WP:ASL and WP:FNNR. This will cut some space while keeping the main source easily accessible.
 * I was also linking every university mentioned. Links to the general university page aren't very useful here, and the pipes take up too much space. More recently I've been linking only to those that are directly tied to someone discussed in the article, while not linking to teams mentioned as Lobos opponents unless the link is to the particular team of that season, and the team is notable.
 * The page could use some more quality pics to break up the blocks of text. I'm seeking sources for pics and have found a few more to add. Some nice interior shots of The Pit would be nice. I'd like to find pics of past coaches, but that will be difficult unless UNM or the Albq Journal agree to add them.

Sweet 16
The notation in the Infobox that the Lobos made the sweet 16 in '68 and '74 is deceptive and inaccurate. There were 23 and 25 teams in the tournament in those years; the Lobos were seeded directly into the that round in '68 and won one game to get there in '74. That round wasn't called the Sweet 16 until the tournament was expanded (it was simply the second round back then), and the term implies that the team won two games to get there. The designation for those years should be removed. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 18:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Doing some further research, the consensus at WikiProject College Basketball is to follow the NCAA example and not refer to the Sweet 16 until 1975. From the NCAA Media Guide (pg. 8): "Sweet 16 Records begin in 1975, the first year that all teams in the tournament would be required to win at least one game to advance to the Sweet 16." The Sweet 16 designations for 68 and 74 are therefore inappropriate. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 20:05, 20 March 2014 (UTC)