Talk:New Skin for the Old Ceremony

Proposed for deletion
New Skin for the Old Ceremony was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP

OK, here's a track listing. Per Ta bu shi da yu's request, I'm listing it here. Delete. &#8212; Bill 12:45, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, because it is part of a series of relatively content free submissions (see Songs from a Room, Recent Songs, Various Positions, I'm Your Man, Ten New Songs, ). An occasional one-off substub I think should be kept, to encourage further participation. However, multiple substubs from anyone I think should be discouraged, as it taxes New pages and Recent changes patrol too much--nowadays I regularly find week-old vandalism and vanity pages. Contributors should spend more time adding real articles, not substubs/microstubs. One reg'd Wikipedian submitted a bunch of album articles that contained nothing but a 'see also' and a category tag--most, if not all, were speedied, and I think rightly so. Niteowlneils 19:12, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep: I personally will expand them all in a few days like I did with Songs of Love and Hate, The Future et cetera. I'll start now, even. Tolo 12:40, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep: I found it useful. It has writing credits for the songs and a decent album box. Mortene 09:01, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. I have now done enough on this that it should remove any charge of it being a sub-stub. More to the point, though, Cohen is a major artist, major enough that any album of his original material almost certainly merits an article; this is just the sort of thing where starting with a stub should be fine, because it will obviously accumulate content. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:57, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, make better. &mdash;tregoweth 05:24, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

Recording sessions
Was this the first multitracked Cohen album? Do any outakes and alternate takes exist, or were they all erased?myrtone


 * Good question, but perhaps one best asked at a Leonard Cohen fan-forum. I assume that if any editor here knew the answer, it would already be in the article.  Anonymous, I'd like to encourage you to consider getting an account and looking at WP:ALBUM, if you haven't already done so.  Jkelly 16:40, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Define "multitracked".
 * New Skin for the Old Ceremony was recorded onto at least 8-track tape. No outtakes are known. – Hattrem 06:49, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't see why do we need "As of 2005 no outtakes are known." at this page? It's not mentioned on any other Cohen albums' page, although some of them included outtakes. - The other thing is that Songs for Rebecca could be considered here for inclusion, as that abandoned album was recorded and done the same year, with the same producer and musicians, and apparnetly in same style and arrangements. Tomsak 13:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think that the line "As of 2005 no outtakes are known" can be removed. In my opinion, Songs for Rebecca would fit better as an independent article or in the Leonard Cohen main page. – Hattrem 22:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Chelsea Hotel credits

 * Despite all discussions around it, I am not sure can we credit Ron Cornelius as co-author of the song as long he's not credited on some of the future releases! Tomsak 13:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Maybe. However, he is credited as co-writer of the song with BMI. Well, I won't object if you remove the credit from the track listing. – Hattrem 22:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I won't dare to remove it as I didn't wrote it:-) I think, if we have the info about the disput in the article itself, until it isn't credited so oficially, we can't put it in tracklist.Tomsak 08:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Cohen's remasters

 * Any of Cohen's LPs wasn't remastered to CD, but only released in Sony's nice price collection (without any kind of remastering). So this info is not correct! (Only available remasters of Cohen's catalogue are selected tracks on 2002 The Essential Leonard Cohen CD) Tomsak 13:32, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * You are mistaken, my friend. Songs of Love and Hate, New Skin for the Old Ceremony, and Various Positions were "Digitally remastered by Vic Anesini (Sony Music Studios, New York)". This is catalog info not printed on the actual CDs. – Hattrem 22:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Where did this info come from? His management always said he doesn't have any early LP remastered, except The Essential? Also, I have all CDs from Sony Austria, and they're real crap. Various Positions' tracks sounds so magnificient on The Essential, while the CD itself is very low sound, and you can't hear much of the backing arrangements...Tomsak 08:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Veteran Vic Anesini is credited in text taken from some catalog and quoted at for instance CD Universe and Buy.com. I suspect the source is Muze Inc.
 * Low sound doesn't mead bad sound! On the contrary, not pushing it up to maximum (as is custom these days) preserves the dynamic sound of the analog recording. (As for Various Positions, there were also earlier editions than the 1995 remaster, such as the 1989 CD.) – Hattrem 09:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)