Talk:New Texas Giant

Records
Current records listed on here are false, the Texas Giant is no longer a wooden roller coaster, it is a hybrid; so im removing that part of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpshuler (talk • contribs) 19:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Name
Should we move this page to New Texas Giant?Xtreme2000 (talk) 16:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not opposed to it. The web site calls it both the "New Texas Giant" and just "Texas Giant", but Amusement Today has it listed under the new name. What does the sign at the entrance to the ride read? That might be the deciding factor and good indication of whether or not it's a permanent change. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:00, 6 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd support that. The entrance sign says the New Texas Giant and RCDB lists it as New Texas Giant.--Astros4477 (talk) 17:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd argue the WP:COMMONNAME is Texas Giant. Even when it was relaunched I recall seeing in the media it being called "new Texas Giant" (new being an adjective) and not always "New Texas Giant". Since a common name is preferred over an official name on Wikipedia, I'd be opposed to the move. Themeparkgc   Talk  23:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

PAGE''' ]] ) 01:55, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Support a move. The Rattler was moved to Iron Rattler when a similar change was made to that ride. --Ahecht ( [[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK

RMC refurbs
Themeparkgc  Talk  23:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Death
Here we go again. Theme park fans are deleting legitimate, significant WP:WEIGHT material about accidents at a theme park. They are also not getting consensus in Talk. --Nbauman (talk) 03:52, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

PAGE ]] ) 13:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC) PAGE ]] ) 03:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I deleted unreliable witness statements only, not "facts". These witnesses claim to have seen and heard things that they could not have heard or seen. The lapbars on this ride are hydraulic and don't "click", the portion of the ride where the accident occurred cannot be seen from where many of the witnesses were, and two quotes about the lapbar position directly contradict each other. This isn't Wikinews, and just because someone was quoted in the paper or on TV doesn't mean that it can, or should, be included here. Per WP:NEWSORG, reporting of rumors has little encyclopedic value unless it is verifiable, which in this case it is not. I have no problem giving this incident proper WP:WEIGHT, and when actual facts about the accident are released we can include those in the article. I edited the article to leave some of the statements in, but removed the unreliable and contradictory ones. --Ahecht ( [[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK
 * The question is not whether the lapbars click; it's whether WP:RSs said that the ride attendant said that the lapbars click, according to WP:RS. In fact, many WP:RSs reported that. So according to WP:RS and WP:WEIGHT, it was reported by multiple reliable sources and should go in the entry.
 * It may well be that the lapbars don't click, but according to this account, that's what the attendant said. The attendant may have been wrong. That might have something to do with the accident. If you can find a WP:RS who says, with regard to this incident, that the lapbars don't click, add that.
 * This is an important part of WP:RS that a lot of people don't understand. Yes, if many WP:RSs are wrong (or you think they're wrong), it goes into the entry even if it's wrong. All you can do is add other WP:RSs with a correct view.
 * (Unfortunately you can't just find something that says, without regard to this incident, that the bars don't click and put that in; that would be WP:OR. I went to the German ride manufacturer's web site and saw a description of the car, which said that it was a pneumatic bar, and it didn't seem to click, but it would have been WP:OR for me to add my own research and conclusions to the entry.)
 * Furthermore, according to WP:NOCONSENSUS "In deletion discussions, no consensus normally results in the article, image, or other content being kept." --Nbauman (talk) 22:20, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, this is not a deletion discussion. Second, a WP:RS didn't say the lapbar clicked, an unreliable source quoted in a WP:RS did and per WP:NEWSORG a rumor, even when reported by what would otherwise be a WP:RS, is of limited encyclopedic value. Third, I will refer you to WP:DRNC. --Ahecht ( [[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK

This is not a rumor. It's eyewitness testimony by an identified person -- Carmen Brown -- who saw it. It was reported in the Dallas News, and repeated by multiple well-established news outlets which are generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact, which is the criteria of WP:RS. The AP fact-checked the story.

It doesn't matter whether you think the eyewitness is reliable or not, for Wikipedia purposes. What matters is that those reliable sources quoted her.

I don't want to say that the lap bar did or didn't click. I want to repeat what the eyewitness said, as quoted in WP:RSs. You haven't given one good reason for deleting this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/woman-dies-while-riding-texas-giant-roller-coaster-at-six-flags-over-texas/2013/07/19/ddc0b9e0-f0dd-11e2-bc0d-556690a86be2_story.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-dies-flags-roller-coaster-texas-article-1.1404147

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/21/woman-killed-rollercoaster-fell-police

http://gma.yahoo.com/six-flags-roller-coaster-accident-witness-says-victim-132725040--abc-news-topstories.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20130719-breaking-news-arlington-police-fire-at-six-flags-for-fatal-incident-texas-giant-said-to-be-involved.ece

Early attention was beginning to focus on witnesses’ reports that the woman’s safety restraint may have come undone.

Carmen Brown of Arlington was waiting in line as the victim was being secured in for the ride. She said she believed that the woman’s son was on the ride with her.

Brown said the woman had expressed concern to a park employee that she was not secured correctly in her seat.

“He was basically nonchalant,” Brown said. “He was, like, ‘As long as you heard it click, you’re fine.’ Hers was the only one that went down once, and she didn’t feel safe. But they let her still get on the ride.”

--Nbauman (talk) 15:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC) PAGE''' ]] ) 20:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Carmen Brown told WFAA that she saw the "click" incident and that she saw the woman fall out (despite the fact that she didn't and couldn't have seen her fall out from where she was). The other sources are just regurgitating the original interview with WFAA, and when reporters base their information off other news coverage, the coverage is only a single source.
 * Carmen Brown did say it (the RSs clearly establish that), but the fact that she said it doesn't matter. Per WP:NOTNEWS, "not all verifiable events are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia" and while the accident is definitely suitable for inclusion, every interview on the subject is not necessarily suitable. Even if what Carmen Brown said were true, not every widely reported statement by a witness needs to be included in an article.
 * Don't forget that this article is about the Texas Giant, not Carmen Brown, WFAA, or media coverage of roller coaster accidents. For example, KTVU, a WP:RS, quoted an NTSB intern as saying that the pilots of the crashed Asiana flight in San Francisco had the made-up names Sum Ting Wong and Ho Lee Fuk, and while that was widely reported in WP:RSs and ended up being included in the KTVU Wikipedia article, it was not relevant enough for inclusion in the Asiana Airlines Flight 214 article.
 * Finally, and most importantly, WFAA itself has backed off on that interview. The day after the accident, they silently edited the original article that contained the quote to remove any mention of the lap bar clicking, and in an article the following day addressed the now widely repeated quote as being suspect and quoted the manufacturer as saying that the lap bar is infinitely adjustable (and therefore doesn't click). From WP:DUST:"'However, with breaking news, reports are often made without the usual level of background checking, and are often superseded by later reports.""'Reports on breaking news stories can often be driven by a desire to get a 'scoop', including less reliable sources or minor details, which would not get included in a less time-critical report. Wikipedia is not driven by a printing deadline, so it is better to wait until details have been clarified than try to track scoops and correct later. Sources from 'scoop-based' reports should be treated with caution, especially if the information in question is not repeated in later, less hurried, reports. A newspaper might only have to be 'correct enough for today', but Wikipedia should strive for more.""'Editors should be wary of adding too much information based on sources published very shortly after or during a current event, but instead allow time for secondary sources to do research and publish material without time pressure, which should give a broader picture and better impression of what viewpoints are deemed significant.'"
 * Lots and lots of early news stories on well publicized incidents include false witness statements by people that want to get on TV or see their name in the paper, but these false statements are generally not included in later articles (or Wikipedia articles) on the incident. Because such false statement are not included in later reporting, it's hard to track down examples, but it happens all the time. --Ahecht ( [[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK
 * Let's take this one point at a time. This is not a rumor, it's eyewitness testimony, right? --Nbauman (talk) 03:24, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

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