Talk:New Westminster/Archive 1

Move Image
Regarding the article the map of the gvrd is inaccurate. New westminister includes part of the extreme north of Lulu Island which is the island currently designated as Richmond. That district of New Westminister is called Queensborough. I would update it but I'm not computer savy enough to be able to do so. However I do appreciate the effort the new authour put into the new map, it is a substantial improvement over the old one.


 * Thanks; made the change to both New Westminster and Richmond location maps. Qyd(talk)18:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

location of Pattullo Bridge pic re format
The photograph of the Pattullo Bridge on the right is covering some text. Would a kind person please move it a little lower? I am still a newbie to Wiki and its syntax. Thanks!

2001 census?
I feel embarassed that I don't know this, considering I'm from this city... but is there really a 2001 census? Down here in the states we do 70, 80, 90, 00, 10 for census'ing. But it may happen more in Canada as there's 1/10 as many people so they could do it more cause it doesnt cost as much to perform, and I mean money or time. Especially compared to US, India, and China. Redwolf24 10:28, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
 * yes, we have it every 5 years. 1996, 2001, 2006... see the article at Canada 2001 Census. -- Earl Andrew - talk 10:34, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Salmonbellies Mann Cup Wins
The following dates are from the Salmonbellies page currently linked in the article; not sure if these should be in the article, or as a footnote; and not sure how to make a footnote properly. So here's the dates:1915,1916,1917, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1927, 1937, 1943, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1965, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1986, 1989, 1991. I'd go so far as to venture they should have their own article at some point, likewise the Vancouver Burrards and Coquitlam Adanacs. Ditto with the New Westminster Royals hockey team. I'm not a sports fan but I know these are historically important teams, and were once something that made New West famous in the Mysterious East.Skookum1 21:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Was it Labatt's or O'Keefe's in Sapperton?
My Alzheimer's is kicking in: I should know this, having driven past it x000 times in the last fifty years. Labatt's wasn't it? I would have put it in the historical geography and/or Sapperton sections if I was sure.Skookum1 21:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

-->Yes it was Labatt's.  Before 1970 it was Lucky Lager. User: WikiMart

New Westminster O'Keefes and New Westminster Adanacs
Please see question on Talk:New Westminster Salmonbellies.Skookum1 22:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Historical photos issues
As you might guess, all the good older photos of New Westminster are in public archives; all those currently listed are from the BC Archives. I know from experience in dealing with them that for non-profit use it's OK to display their images, or thumbnails thereof, provided the Archives credit and photo number is included on the display page, and the image links through to their data/information page for the image; in the case of the drill-hall image, the last one I've added, it would be http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-740C24/cgi-bin/text2html/.visual/img_txt/dir_70/a_07718.txt. The idea here is that, given the amount these images could enrich Wiki historical articles/sections, is it possible to have a Wiki page "summon" an outside online image; or is Wiki sufficiently non-profit enough as a body to simply use handmade thumbnails with the image linked through; the drillhall's imagethumbnail is http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_sml/dir_70/a_07718.gif, which if ordinary HTML will work would go New Westminster Drill Hall Let's see if that worked....Skookum1 00:27, 18 July 2006 (UTC)  Nope, so no point in trying the A HREF tag either. Can this work at all? Might help if there's an extant policy from BC Archives about Wiki use; I get away with it at http://www.cayoosh.net because it's for-free, unpublished etc. Any knowledge here about how Wiki image policies apply? I just think that this page, and a lot of other BC pages, especially for ghost towns, mines, ships and people, could be seriously enriched by the inclusion of BC Archives photos (VPL's a lot stickier).Skookum1 00:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't remember anyone doing this and succeeding. -→ Buchanan-Hermit ™ / ?!  03:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Too bag. I'll have to study the govt copyright tags acceptable in Wiki and see what applies; it's conceivable the Archives might issue a dictum/letter authorizing use, but that still isn't within Wiki policies, or is it? From what I remember in my discussions with them, the thumbnails can be used on public-education sites (non-advertising, non-profit) so long as the photo ID and the link-through are in place. Or because Wiki is a profit-making corporation (somehow? How does Jimbo Wales earn anything off this vast undertaking anyway?) and/or may or may not be published in hard copy for sale, that might disqualify the Archives' public-permission sensibility; or not. Wiki is so new, so unusual, that it might strike the archivists/administrators that the benefits of people being able to see their collection far outweigh the $35/img they charge for commercial use. Is Wiki or is Wiki not commercial use anyway?Skookum1 07:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Check out Image use policy. It's a bit of a rat's nest, but basically, non-commercial and by-permission images are frowned upon. heqs 15:09, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Other BC Archives photos have been successfully licensed; neither of the two old ones on here are BC Archives though. File:StateLibQld_1_125131_Coquitlam_City_(ship).jpg which is from the Queensland State Library, appears to be at Port Moody, maybe Barnet.Skookum1 (talk) 09:26, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

The Columbian newspaper
Formerly John Robson's British Columbian, d. some time in the 1970s as I recall; once one of the province's flagship dailies. Needs an article; this is a note for later, or for some other industrious media-fan Wikipedian. Hint, hint.Skookum1 08:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey guys
Hey guys, is it worth noting thw whole coquitlam newestminister shenanigan over the 1 lane bailey bridge? TotallyTempo 01:48, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, the Braid-United Way Non-Connector....should definitely be here somewhere; is there a United Way (Coquitlam) article, or Braid Street? The civic politics is interesting; New West wants to be an important city "again") but doesn't want traffic passing through it or even being able to get in (or out) of it easily, even though it touts itself as being at the centre of the GVRD.  "We want to be king of the csstle, but all you riff raff are going to have go go through Burnaby" etc.  yeah, right it up, just don't be as POV as I would ;-)Skookum1 (talk) 15:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I was going to but now all my sources disappeared. :( 99.240.191.54 (talk) 06:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

External links galore
Removed the following external links per WP:NOT

Historical Photos

 * New Westminster Heritage Page: Historical Photographs
 * New Westminster Photography Club

Early Years 1858-1870s

 * Early View of Columbia Street, west of 6th St., c.1859
 * Government offices at New Westminster, 1860, including Treasury, Assay Office, Post Office and Mint.
 * Indians encamped on banks of Fraser, New Westminster, 1860s
 * View of New Westminster, 1861
 * View of New Westminster, c.1863 (Government House at left; the cleared area is roughly that of the BC Pen and Woodlands)
 * New Westminster, Early View, 1863
 * Government House, c.1865
 * Government Buildings, New Westminster, 1865
 * Boardwalks in New Westminster, date undetermined
 * Part of the New Westminster waterfront, c.1865
 * Gathering of First Nations people at New Westminster for Queen's Birthday, 1865
 * Columbia Street, 1868 (approx. at 5th or 4th St., looking SW)
 * Wharf adjacent to Columbia Street, 1868
 * New Westminster May Day Celebrations, 1871. w. maypole
 * New Westminster May Day Celebrations, 1871.
 * The Hyack Band, c.1878

Age of Opulence 1880s-1890s

 * Irving House, c.1885 (on Royal Avenue, former home of Captain William Irving, now home to the New Westminster Museum)
 * New Westminster Provincial Gaol, c.1885
 * Main Street, New Westminster, 1886
 * Main Street, New Westminster, 1886
 * Hyack Fire Brigade, 1890s
 * New Westminster Drill Hall, c.1890 (standing today at 6th St @ 1st Ave and home of New Westminster Regiment and its museum)
 * Columbia Street, 1890s (c. 4th St)
 * The Provincial Asylum for the Insane (sometime between 1885 and 1897)
 * Looking East on Columbia Street from near CPR station (8th & Columbia), 1889
 * Columbia Street looking east, c.1895 (from c.9th Street: CPR Station, now Keg restaurant, at right)
 * St. Anne's Convent, New Westminster, 1898
 * Columbian Methodist College, 1898 (an example of the Victorian Gothic variation of the Queen Anne style)
 * Columbia Street, 1897 (apparently looking east, c.6th Street]
 * Columbia Street looking east, 1897

The Great Fire - Sept. 10, 1898

 * Ruins of the New Westminster Courthouse following the Great Fire of Sept. 10, 1898
 * View of Columbia Street after the Great Fire of Sept. 10, 1898
 * View of Columbia Street after the Great Fire of Sept. 10, 1898
 * Columbia Street, the day after the Great Fire, Sept. 11, 1898
 * http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_68/a_03363.gif Columbia Street after the Great Fire, 1898]

A City Reborn - 1900s-1930s

 * New Westminster Waterfront, 1900s
 * Columbia Street, c.1900 (reason for gathering not stated in caption)
 * New Westminster Market, 1900s
 * Ships loading lumber, New Westminster waterfront, 1900s
 * View of New Westminster from High School, 1900s (area of Royal Ave or 1st Ave)
 * Opening of Fraser River railway bridge, 1904 (beneath Pattullo Bridge today)
 * Columbia Street, looking East from Albert Crescent, 1912 (showing interurban)
 * Columbia Street looking West, c.1912 (c. 1st Street)
 * Douglas Hotel, New Westminster, 1920s
 * City Hall and Post Office, 1919 (corner of Sixth and Columbia Sts)
 * Royal Columbian Hospital, 1900s
 * New Westminster Exhibition Grounds and Buildings, 1902
 * New Westminster Exhibition Buildings and Grounds
 * New Westminster Sawmill, c.1911
 * Columbia Street Looking West from Blackwood St, 1912
 * Columbian College football team, 1910 ("football" here probably means soccer)
 * New Westminster CPR station, 1929
 * Providence Orphanage, New Westminster, 1930
 * Providence Orphanage Chapel, c.1930
 * Chinese United Church, New Westminster, c.1930

1940s-1960s
If anything can be used to reference article content, they should be used as references, but not as a links collection. --Qyd 17:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Star Shipyard, New Westminster, 1940s

Old pictures shouldn't have to be external links anyway
I've seen those external links to BC Archives photos in other articles too. Most or all of those pictures, linked above, can just be properly uploaded and used as needed anyway. I've uploaded lots of BC Archives photos and have had no problems. PD Canada is used for anything before 1949 with the tag. See conversations here and  here. Ci ndy Bo  talk  09:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and see this government website here too, which states very clearly "All photographs taken on or before Jan. 1, 1949 that are not Crown works are in the public domain and may be freely copied. Photographs taken after that date are copyrighted for the life of the author plus 50 years". However these pictures may not be able to be uploaded to Commons as they have to be Public Domain in the US as well, and that seems to have more to do with publication dates than creation dates. Ci ndy Bo talk  11:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm, like so many federal government links, that one now yields a 404 error....apparently all Nat'l Archives photos are inherently public domain now; VPL limits copyright on some, but older ones are public domain. There have been successful uploads of BC Archives pics, I think, I'll try and find someone and see how they're licensed.  I do know t hat many pictures they claim copyright on, such as the Artie Phair collection, they don't have the right to make that claim but do anyway.  Really, as it was explained to me somewhere, they have the copyright on prints they make off the negatives they hold; they don't own the images themselves.Skookum1 (talk) 09:33, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that only applies if they were published in the United States. All very confusing and often contradictory....anyway6, I compiled these sort of knowing this would happen; there were just too many good images to go ignored; it was when I was researching these that we start4ed to have the "use of BC ARchives photos" discussion a year ago.  At least the links above are "handy" for getting at New Westminster pictures for later article expansions; there should definitely be a separate article one hte Fire, I'd say.Skookum1 (talk) 16:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Samson V Maritime Museum
....should have an article; here's their site.Skookum1 (talk) 07:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

CNR bridge north abutment
I found this while looking for something else; back to discuss it later, I'm busy elsewhere.Skookum1 (talk) 02:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Pics
I just added a new picture from the Hyack Anvil Battery Salute into the section where that's discussed - problem is, the formatting there is kind of wonky. Would it maybe be preferable to replace one of the historical shots instead, or move the new one to a different section? (I'd have put it in the Politics section, it being the Mayor, but there isn't one...) I leave that question for the regular editors - just wanted to add a fresh shot for the article. Tony Fox (arf!) 22:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Name origin variance
This has bugged me for a while:
 * ''In 1859, New Westminster was selected as the first capital of the new Colony of British Columbia by Queen Victoria, who named the city after part of London.

Derby (aka Old Fort Langley), across the river from Port Haney and Kanaka Creek, and now only farmland, was the original capital. It was moved at the insistence of Colonel Moody who felt it was undefensible as being on the wrong side of the river and without high ground (New Fort Langley is relatively defensible because of the oxbow-swamp surrounding it in those days...also farmland now), and chose the site of New Westminster as the capital proper; he named it Queensborough and it was that name that Queen Victoria overrode and chose New Westminster for instead, and as in my now-removed inline comment was meant to emulate Westminster as the seat of British imperial-ness; there's particular passages about this in various histories, I don't have any handy. The sentence should read something like:
 * ''In 1859 the site of New Westminster was chosen as teh second capital of teh Mainland Colony at the insistence of Colonel Moody, who didn't like the location of the original capital at Derby (Old Fort Langley) for strategic reasons. Moody named the new townsite Queensborough but this was overriden by Queen Victoria, who chose the name New Westminster in tribute to the seat of the British Parliament....Skookum1 (talk) 16:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to rename page
move. Proposed rename: New Westminster, British Columbia → New Westminster

New Westminster currently redirects to New Westminster, British Columbia. New Westminster (disambiguation) only contains pages which are secondary to New Westminster, the community, or pages for which New Westminster is only part of the proper name. As the place name is evidently unique and primary, it is proposed to simplify the page name per WP:CANSTYLE and WP:PRIMARYUSAGE. Dl2000 (talk) 02:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support per nominator. - DigitalC (talk) 03:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support; an internet search suggests that, despite restricting a query to non-BC occurrences of "New Westminster", results are still strongly associated with this city. Mind  matrix  14:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Don Smith re soccer
In soccer I removed a line stating "One such person was the late, great Don Smith.", in reference to soccer. While don smith may have been late and great, there is no stating of why this person was notable and no article for him on wikipedia, so it seemed irrelevant. If someone provides me proof as to why this guy was late and great, I have no problem reinserting the link. TotallyTempo (talk) 05:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * probably a vanity edit, but could be an old-era sports person, not sure.Skookum1 (talk) 02:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Crime in New Westminster
This city really needs a crime section. It has a serious crime problem. It's one reason why I won't stop in the city. With incredibly high rates of assault/muggings (especially near the skytrain stations), as well as high rates of auto theft, it's a major issue (and a deterrent from growth and prosperity in the area - a subjective opinion, but one that is representative the effects that the perception of crime have on at least one individual). — Preceding unsigned comment added by David.aloha (talk • contribs) 06:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually I'd say there's a need for Crime in British Columbia or Crime in the Lower Mainland, as New Westminster's not alone in all that; higher crime rates are in the Interior, also, even in small towns; crime issues are different in BC than beyond the mountains, which is one reason a provincial or at least Lower Mainland-level article is needed.Skookum1 (talk) 06:43, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Needed List of heritage buildings in New Westminster
There's so many and many of such importance that it behooves the creation of such a list as per List of heritage buildings in Vancouver; the external links Qyd notes on above are a good place to start, though there's various webpages listing all the major structures and also many private homes on the city's (and the province's) heritage register(s). And lots of PD photos out there. Not sure who lives in New West or near it; the late Franamax used to, not sure who's in the area now. I'm super busy but will try and start the list soon, using the Vancouver one as the model; I don't have time to fuss with using the BC Archives, uploading, licensging etc, but if someone familiar with Wikimedia Commons would like to do the honours and add them to New West's section there (and create that if needed), that would expedite things a lot.Skookum1 (talk) 08:23, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.newwestcity.ca/business/planning_development/heritage/articles239.php may have them all listed.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:34, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.newwestcity.ca/business/planning_development/heritage/articles238.php better link.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:36, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There's various pages I've found by googling, a certain one I can't find again for some reason; my browser history is as you can imagine too big to go back and find it again.......some on the NW official pages though not that one also list newer buildings, including Westminster Quay and its hotel (WTF?). The Front Street Parkade isn't heritage but as a major structure could probably use its own article, also.  Priority are the churches, Irving House, the old Government House, now gone, and certain highly notable houses.  And the Burr Block, Westminster Building, the Paramount Theatre (New Westminster) which as you probably know becama a strip cabaret, maybe still is, and the Columbia Theatre (New Westminster) which is now gone, I think.  Normal practice with such lists is only currently-surviving buildings; as with Vancouver and places like the Orillia and old theatres and the Birks Building, there's kind of a need for a "notable historic buildings now gone" list, don't know what that title might be.Skookum1 (talk) 03:34, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

found a pic in Commons.....
in the new British Library public domain area ; not sure what the building in the background is, the old City Hall maybe, or something on the grounds of Queens Park...or Moody Park, maybe; it's not the old Government House. Further to this, there are notable buildings like this one and Government House that are long-gone; as in the case of Vancouver notable demolished structures could use their own list/pictorial at some point.Skookum1 (talk) 14:06, 3 July 2013 (UTC)