Talk:New York–style pizza/Archive 1

Recipe Links
The two recipe sites in External Links are not NY-style pizza. One is a thin crust neapolitan pizza with a self-described "cracker-like crust", which this article clearly states is indicative of not NY-style. It also looks nothing like NY-style street pizza.

The other link to Jeff's recipe page is one that google returns for NY pizza recipe, but again, it's not NY-style street pizza. It's more neapolitan style like Grimaldi's, which is not the subject of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.245.7 (talk) 04:56, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

tap water--myth?
"The secret to true New York pizza is said to be the tap water that New York City and the surrounding area receive. But this is largely a myth. The true secret is the technique of the preparation" Now, I'm a New Yorker and I definitely believe the water makes a difference. I don't think anyone has actually tested this though, so should it be called a myth? Just curious. =D Lizzysama 02:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard this, and I've lived here over 15 years. And without a source it shouldn't be included at all. --Mmx1 02:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * DragoonWraith 08:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC): I've lived in NYC all my life (18 years, so we'll say that my cogniscent time here is probably a bit less than your 15), and I hear this constantly. I actually decided to find this article solely because I was curious if it was true.


 * Having done a fair bit a travelling, I can say that I've never had "New York style pizza" that actually tasted like pizza from New York...

My family, friends, and most of the people I know talk about it involving New York and Florida mostly. This is because I know a lot of people who moved there and say the water is the reason that their pizza tastes different. I don't really think it should be included either because it's not really a fact. Lizzysama 04:21, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I removed the whole thing :-) It does not sound encyclopedic. --HappyCamper 15:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

There's little difference between pizza in NYC vs. on Long Island, even though the tap water sources are entirely different. Sounds like BS to me. -- Nasarius (talk) 19:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Food network did a special on Pizza across the globe. The water in NYC comes from reservoirs in upstate New York that have a high mineral content. Additionally the aqueducts that bring the water to the city impart minerals that leach into the supply from the concrete and stone that line the tunnels. the minerals affect the flavor of the crust, making the pizza somewhat different tasting. --Jeremy ( Blah blah... ) 18:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Any native new yorker will tell you the story of the tap water. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.5.172 (talk) 18:34, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a myth. As an expert pizza maker, I can tell you that the real flavor comes from the culture, not from the water. --Jsderwin (talk) 01:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

The food network experiment was flawed anyways. Their approach was entirely subjective. This is in all liklihood a myth. No other food in the world (except bread products made in New York) is claimed to taste different because of the water. Having tasted New York Pizza made in New York, and New York pizza made in other north eastern states, it is clear to me there is no difference in flavor or texture if the recipe is followed the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.110.167 (talk) 20:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

New York?
I was in and around NYCc from 1984 to 1999, and when people I knew referred to new york style pizza, it was the thick stuff from ray's and st mark's. I think we need to amend the article to note that the term is muddied, meaning different things to different new yorkers... - Akb4 08:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The article says: 'New York style pizza is often referred to as "pie" or "pizza pie."' Is this a regionalism? New York style pizza is common in my part of New England, but is never called "pie." GMcGath 23:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Weird. I'm from Jersey, when we order pizza it's only a question of how many pies. So I think this is a case of regionalism. -- En dl ess Dan  16:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "Pizza" means "pie". "Pizza pie" is like saying "egg foo young," which means "egg with egg" or "hamburger sandwich."72.78.177.33 (talk) 19:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Reference New York Pizza Finder and Blog?
I have a Web site and a blog that are dedicated to helping people find New York Style Pizza when they are away from the New York area. I'm wondering if it would be too self-serving to put a link to these sites on this page. The sites are at www.newyorkpizzafinder.com[] and pizza.wordpress.com. What do you think?

Well, I waited a year or two for a response and never got one, so I went ahead and added a description of the New York Pizza Finder site. It is now a wiki site so anyone can add good New York pizza places to it as well as reviews. Tom S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsliker (talk • contribs) 03:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

photo of slice
There needs to be a better photo of a slice of pizza, as this one apears to have a bite taken out of it. 218.186.9.1 13:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

LOL, probably the photographer! Nita Reads

I will replace that photo soon! -- En dl ess Dan  16:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Ingredients
I dough being unique is a slam dunk, but I have been informed by many that to be genuine it must contain sauce and mozzarella ONLY... Thoughts??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.107.170 (talk) 04:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * preferable, but small toppings like sausage or mushrooms that get embedded into the pizza are ok. nothing that's going to fall off or lay on top like pepperoni or peppers —Preceding unsigned comment added by A plague of rainbows (talk • contribs) 15:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * What about white pizza? It's just cheese and aglio e olio.72.78.177.33 (talk) 19:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

area
They don't just have New York style pizza in the city, the have it all of downstate. I've eaten pizza from long island, rockland county, westchester county, and the one and only NYC and pizza's there in all locations are so much similar. that's why i edited it. --Mr. Comedian (talk) 14:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Measuring standards
Most of the world will not know how big 18 inches are. Could writers please use metric measurements or both. 41.123.132.148 (talk) 21:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Pizza Table
The idea is to create a table/spreadsheet that lists all the pizza restaurants in NYC and state in the first column (the list can be updated by people from the various areas or the restaurant owner), then create columns outlining different aspects that a pizza can have, such as Sauce, Crust/dough, Cheeze, spices/herbs, Sizes (18in, deepdish ETC.), Topings available;( Special Toppings, Unusual Toppings), cooking type (baked, fried ETC.), tumbnail example, Streamline comment on what makes it special or unique (EX: the sauce has a strong spiced flavor, the cheeze is aged mozzarella, the cheeze is spiced ETC.)

Rather than argue over which restaurant is better or which pizza is better, lets just list them for what they are and have avalable, to let people decide for themselves without arguing.

Naturally we could make a second table listing restaurant names and in the second column address 27.16.116.164 (talk) 07:32, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

How many oz./grams is a standard NY style slice?
How many oz./grams is a standard NY style slice? 2604:2000:F22D:5100:907C:FD8B:BE9B:20E4 (talk) 13:43, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

The en dash
I am of the firm belief that the name of the page should be reverted back to an en dash, since New York-style pizza could potentially be misread as York-Style Pizza that is new. I don't think that there is any reasonable reason to nullify a style guide for no good reason, especially when the reason for using an en dash is completely valid. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Electricmaster (talk • contribs) 06:53, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

References 6 and 7
Reference 7 is dead. Reference 6 doesn't reference what is mentioned it does Ihatethedrake2 (talk) 11:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 30 January 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved: consensus is clearly against the move as proposed. If any of the users who suggested removing the dash altogether wish to do so, a separate RM can be started to discuss that. (closed by non-admin page mover)  SITH   (talk)   15:19, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

New York-style pizza → New York–style pizza – I am requesting that this article be moved per MOS:SUFFIXDASH, i.e. "New York" is compound with a space—not because "-style pizza" is a compound modifier. I would do it myself, but a redirect already exists at that name. DocWatson42 (talk) 04:32, 30 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting.  SITH   (talk)   12:27, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Talk:St. Louis-style barbecue. I see the rule now, which says "Use this punctuation when there are compelling grounds for retaining the construction." I agree that there are compelling grounds for retaining the construction here. However, I do not think we should change the page title to one that is less intuitive and no more clear than the current version. There is a problem with the guideline, which is that the final example ("radiator cap–themed") differs linguistically from the other examples, which use prefixes that are not standalone words ("trans-", "pre-", "post-", "ex-"). In either event, "–themed" is apparently intended as a suffix in the example construction, which is missing a noun at the end, but "New York" is not a prefix. "New York" as a set is intuitive to the reader, and "New York-style" is an acceptable single compound modifier. Dekimasu よ! 22:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose, get rid of the dash entirely. This is an attempt at hypercorrection and is just making things worse.  English is not a language governed by formal rules, or some formal authority, and few rules don't have exceptions.  Any kind of dash/hyphen here makes it look silly, because it is not the language, it is not what the sources use.  When in doubt, follow the sources.  "New York style pizza", as per the sources.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:22, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. It's pizza like they have in New York, not new pizza like they have in York.&mdash; Chowbok  ☠  11:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose but would Support get rid of the dash entirely per SmokeyJoe Psalms79&#59;6-7 (talk) 17:23, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose per SmokeyJoe. See also MOS:HYPHEN.  Calidum   19:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose per MOS:HYPHEN, MOS:DASH. This would not be a correct use of the en dash. This case is exactly the same as "United States-born", "Republic of China-based", etc.  The standard approach in English, according to every major style guide ever written for this language, is to use a hyphen.  In detail, the rule is to hyphenate all elements of a compound modifier ("a coming-of-age story"), except to omit hyphens between the elements of proper names (like "New York"), which necessarily and always results in a construction of the form "New York-style pizza".  An en dash would be used, e.g. "Boston–New York transit routes".  Finally, SmokeyJoe's "get rid of it entirely" schtick is directly against MOS:HYPHEN and all major off-site English-language style guides. No amount of "per SmokeyJoe" WP:IDONTLIKEIT crap can manufacture a WP:FALSECONSENSUS against a long-standing, site-wide guideline, per WP:CONLEVEL policy. (And dropping the punctuation would produce illiterate-looking, ambiguous wording; "New York style pizza" doesn't mean anything concrete, and could refer to "York-style pizza" that is new, or "style pizza" from New York. We use hyphens for a reason.)  PS: This RM was predicated on an outright error inserted without discussion into MOS:SUFFIXDASH, which I have removed; neither -themed (in the removed MoS example) nor -style are suffixes, but are the ends of compound adjectival phrases; an example of a suffix would be -esque.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:49, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose – the hyphen is correct here, in WP style. The phrase doesn't parse without it, and though some styles might use an en dash in that context, that use of en dash was not one that received approval in the big 2011 dash powwow. With respect to Chowbok's parse ambiguity, the caps in "New York" work to hold that together as a name.  If these were common words, you'd hyphenate like "old-shoe-style pizza", not use an en dash like "old shoe–style pizza".  Not every grouping ambiguity can be solved by punctuation, and the en dash is not the universal tool for that. Dicklyon (talk) 02:23, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The current title is the correct style and is consistent with similar articles. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:35, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment. The current is not correct.  Il Paradiso del Cibo is the characteristic York-style pizza, but, some of the customers think it is a bit too salty and they are agitating for a new York-style pizza recipe.  The current is not correct, and sources do not use it.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You are pretty clearly wrong in so many ways. Dicklyon (talk) 05:38, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Many of the current article sources do not use the horizontal line. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:48, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It's called a hyphen. Dicklyon (talk) 06:22, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Ref 2 omits the hyphen from "New York style pizza". I can't find another one that omits it; can you? Dicklyon (talk) 06:30, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Chicago Manual of Style recommends the compound usage of en dashes such as New York–style pizza, as a preferred alternative to the triple New-York-style pizza; though they insist on 12-year-old girl. I wouldn't be dogmatic about the style for this article title. I'm OK with New York-style pizza, though I'd probably use the en dash myself, to the disdain of a few people I know. SmokeyJoe, please carry on with your anti-punctuation zealotry somewhere else. Tony (talk)  06:22, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

More information desired about ingredients!
I grew up in the New York City area, and nowhere else in the United States is the delicious pizza of the New York area available.

So I would love to learn what ingredients were used for sauce and toppings. Plenty of information is available regarding the *crust*. But an essential aspect of that traditional delicious New York pizza was also the sauce and toppings.

I have no doubt that oregano was one important component, but I have never read a clear explanation of how to create a traditional authentic New York pizza sauce and toppings.71.8.202.138 (talk) 21:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello. You seem lucky to have grown up with such delicious pizza 🍕. Please read WP:RS to understand what our articles are based off of though. If you find a WP:RS please bring it back to this page and we can work on getting it included. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ireallylikepizza.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:14, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse
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