Talk:New York City Players

Proposed re-write
Hi, I'm one of the staff members of New York City Players - I'd like to request a substantial re-write of this article to more reflect the history and work of the company. I originally made a large edit to the page having misunderstood the COI policy - please forgive me in this as I am new to Wikipedia.

Information to be added or removed:
 * An expanded introductory paragraph linking to the page of Richard Maxwell, who is the artistic director of the company, and a brief overview of the number of plays produced by the company and the performance venues and countries those plays have been shown
 * A second paragraph with a sentence describing the work of the company and artistic collaborations with other companies and artists
 * A final paragraph noting that the company is a non-profit and a brief list of its funding sources
 * A production history in a separate section

Explanation of issue: This article is sparse, and does not reflect the totality of the company's work or history, and no major edits or improvements have been made in several years. It also incorrectly implies that the company is a theater building.

References supporting change:
 * 1) Richard Maxwell and the New York City Players. The theater years. Fletcher, Jim (Actor),, Maxwell, Richard, 1967-, Snowden, Robert,, Optimal Media. [New York, N.Y.] ISBN 9780997964707. OCLC 1005087970.
 * 2)  "Richard Maxwell :: Foundation for Contemporary Arts". www.foundationforcontemporaryarts.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 3)  http://www.mapfund.org/grant_66.html
 * 4)  "The Land of the Big Sky and the Deep Inner Void", The New York Times, BEN BRANTLEY, November 6, 2007
 * 5)  "Swimming Across the Rough Sea of History", The New York Times, BEN BRANTLEY, March 24, 2009
 * 6)  Rocco, Claudia La. "'Devotion' by Sarah Michelson - Review". Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 7)  Group, The Wooster. "EARLY PLAYS | THE WOOSTER GROUP". thewoostergroup.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 8)  "Richard Maxwell in Residence". whitney.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 9)  "2018 Grants Program Awardees | The Howard Gilman Foundation". howardgilmanfoundation.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 10)  "2018 Cycle One Creative Space Grantees". www.art-newyork.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 11)  "Richard Maxwell/New York City Players: Isolde | Wexner Center for the Arts". www.wexarts.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 12)  "Current Members". www.art-newyork.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 13)  "NEW YORK CITY PLAYERS". www.nycplayers.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 14)  McElroy, Steven. "It's Getting Warm in the Tap Studio". Retrieved 2018-10-09.
 * 15)  "New York City Players presents | THE PERFORMING GARAGE". theperforminggarage.org. Retrieved 2018-10-09.

Eric at NYC Players (talk) 15:24, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Reply 11-OCT-2018
Your edit request could not be reviewed because it is not specific enough.
 * 1) It is unclear how the information is to be worded in the article. The verbatim text for how the information is to appear needs to be placed within the edit request.
 * 2) It is unclear which references are connected to specific notes in the text of your proposal. When proposing edit requests, it is important to highlight in the text which specific sources are doing the referencing for each note. The point of an inline citation is to allow the reviewer and readers to check that the material is sourced; that point is lost if the citation is not clearly linked to the provided reference. Note the example below:

  Information to be added:
 * Information about the sun
 * Information about the moon
 * More information about the sun

References

1. Sjöblad, Tristan. The Sun. Academic Press, 2018, p. 142. 2. Duvalier, Gabrielle. "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78):46. 3. Uemura, Shū. The Sun's Heat. Academic Press, 2018, p. 23.

In the example above there are vague descriptions about what should be added to the article. The inference is that the reviewer should choose how to word the information as it will appear in the article. This is not how COI edit requests work. The COI editor is to propose the verbatim text of how the information is to appear in the article. Furthermore, the COI editor is to place the properly formatted references within the text at the precise location where the sourced information exists. The links between material and their source references must be more clearly made, as shown in the next example below:

✅  The sun is pretty big,[1] but the moon is not so big.[2] The sun is also quite hot.[3]
 * Please place the following information in the first paragraph of the "Sun and moon" section:

References

^ Sjöblad, Tristan. The Sun. Academic Press, 2018, p. 142. ^ Duvalier, Gabrielle. "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78):46. ^ Uemura, Shū. The Sun's Heat. Academic Press, 2018, p. 23. 

In the example above, the link between the provided references and their notes is perfectly clear, and the text which is to be added has been written verbatim to how it should appear in the article. Kindly reformulate your edit request so that it aligns more with the second example above, and feel free to submit that edit request at your earliest convenience. Regards,  Spintendo   18:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Request edit
Re-write body of article:

New York City Players is a New York-based experimental theatre company founded in 1999 by playwright and director Richard Maxwell. The company has produced approximately 30 new plays in New York and has toured in over 20 countries, and has received five Obie Awards. The company received a Multi-Arts Production (MAP) Fund grant to produce Good Samaritans, and have presented “Ode to the Man Who Kneels,” and “People Without History,” at the Performing Garage in SoHo, Manhattan. The company's works have also been presented at Performance Space New York, The Kitchen, and Soho Rep. in New York, and in Paris, Brussels, Dublin, London, and Germany.

New York City Players mainly produces the original works of playwright Richard Maxwell, whose plays incorporate strong narrative and the repetition and artificiality of live theater. The company has also created a limited number of works through creative partnerships with other artists and companies, including Devotion with choreographer Sarah Michelson, The Early Plays with The Wooster Group, and Open Rehearsal at the 2012 Whitney Biennial.

New York City Players is a nonprofit organization. It is supported by the Howard Gilman Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation New York Theater Program, and public funds from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs. New York City Players is a member of A.R.T./New York.

Add new section "Productions":

Productions

By Richard Maxwell


 * Paradiso (2018)
 * The Evening (2015)
 * Isolde (2013)
 * Open Rehearsal (2012)
 * Neutral Hero (2010)
 * Ads (2010)
 * People Without History (2009)
 * Ode to the Man Who Kneels (2007)
 * The End of Reality (2006)
 * Good Samaritans (2004, 2017)
 * Henry IV Part 1 (2003)
 * Showcase (2003)
 * Joe (2002)
 * Drummer Wanted (2001)
 * Caveman (2000)
 * Boxing 2000 (1999)
 * Showy Lady Slipper (1999)
 * Cowboys and Indians (1999)
 * House (1998)
 * Ute Mnos v. Crazy Liquors (1998)
 * Burger King (1997)
 * Flight Courier Service (1997)
 * Billings (1996)

American Playwrights Division New York City Players also operates their American Playwrights Division, which produces plays written and directed by emerging playwrights.


 * Really, written by Jackie Sibblies Drury and directed by Richard Maxwell (2016)
 * House of Dance, written and directed by Tina Satter (2013)
 * Dreamless Land, written and directed by Julia Jarcho (2011)
 * Vision Disturbance, written by Christina Masciotti and directed by Richard Maxwell (2008)

Incoming Theatre Division Incoming Theatre Division is a program of New York City Players that provides resources and production support to immigrant New Yorkers to develop their stories into live theatrical works. It has thus far produced three productions:


 * Immigration Stories, directed by Tory Vazquez (2018)
 * The Second Wedding of Yasmin Blessing to Jeff Jackman Jr., directed by Tory Vazquez (2017)
 * I Came From There, I Am Here Now, directed by Tory Vazquez (2016)

Best regards, Eric at NYC Players (talk) 19:07, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Reply 11-OCT-2018
As I don't know much about this New York-based theater, I'd like to ping  to inquire from him whether he would ok with these changes. If he finds them acceptable then it's ok with me.  Spintendo   19:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The funding stuff at the end should go, we don't generally get into that aspect, and if we did other articles would be unnecessarily padded out, as companies which have been existence for a long time would have very long lists of funders. The same goes for the MAP grant.  MAP grants are very difficult to get, but there are enough of them given out that noting one is fairly promotional.
 * All the lists of productions should be in forward chronological order, not backwards, which is standard.
 * The claim of 5 Obies should not be in the text unless it's supported by a citation.
 * My suggested text, with some promotionalism removed:

New York City Players is a not-for-profit New York City-based experimental theatre company founded in 1999 by playwright and director Richard Maxwell. The company has produced approximately 30 new plays in New York and has toured in over 20 countries, and has received five Obie Awards. Among their notable productions are Ode to the Man Who Kneels, and People Without History, at the Performing Garage in SoHo, Manhattan. The company's works have also been presented at Performance Space New York, The Kitchen, and Soho Rep in New York, and in Paris, Brussels, Dublin, London, and Germany.

New York City Players primarily produces the original works of Richard Maxwell. The company has also created a limited number of works through creative partnerships with other artists and companies, including Devotion with choreographer Sarah Michelson, The Early Plays with The Wooster Group, and Open Rehearsal at the 2012 Whitney Biennial.

The company runs two programs, the American Playwright Division, which produces plays written and directed by emerging playwrights, and the Incoming Theatre Division, a program which provides resources and production support to immigrant New Yorkers to develop their stories into theatrical works.

Productions
Plays by Richard Maxwell


 * Billings (1996)
 * Flight Courier Service (1997)
 * Burger King (1997)
 * Ute Mnos v. Crazy Liquors (1998)
 * House (1998)
 * Cowboys and Indians (1999)
 * Showy Lady Slipper (1999)
 * Boxing 2000 (1999)


 * Caveman (2000)
 * Drummer Wanted (2001)
 * Joe (2002)
 * Showcase (2003)
 * Henry IV Part 1 (2003)
 * Good Samaritans (2004, 2017)
 * The End of Reality (2006)
 * Ode to the Man Who Kneels (2007)


 * People Without History (2009)
 * Ads (2010)
 * Neutral Hero (2010)
 * Open Rehearsal (2012)
 * Isolde (2013)
 * The Evening (2015)
 * Paradiso (2018)

American Playwrights Division


 * Vision Disturbance (2008) - written by Christina Masciotti and directed by Richard Maxwell
 * Dreamless Land (2011) - written and directed by Julia Jarcho
 * House of Dance (2013) - written and directed by Tina Satter
 * Really (2016) - written by Jackie Sibblies Drury and directed by Richard Maxwell

Incoming Theatre Division


 * I Came From There, I Am Here Now (2016) - directed by Tory Vazquez
 * The Second Wedding of Yasmin Blessing to Jeff Jackman Jr. (2017) - directed by Tory Vazquez
 * Immigration Stories (2018) - directed by Tory Vazquez

Source:


 * I'm going to go ahead and make that change. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:51, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Additional edit proposals
Thank you to Spintendo and Beyond My Ken for looking at my requested edits. I wanted to propose a few additional smaller edits to smooth the article's flow and improve its accuracy:

Delete from paragraph one:

Among their notable productions are Ode to the Man Who Kneels and People Without History, the latter at the Performing Garage in SoHo, Manhattan. The company's works have also been presented at Performance Space New York, The Kitchen, and Soho Rep in New York, and in Paris, Brussels, Dublin, London, and Germany.

Reasoning: the choice to use these two productions as notable is a vestige of an earlier revision of the article that notes that their production was funded in part by a MAP grant, and without that language the reasoning behind highlighting these productions as notable is lost. Details about where the company has toured are now implied with the second sentence of paragraph one, which notes that the company's works have toured in over 20 companies.

Rewrite paragraph two as:

New York City Players creates plays about people, relationships, and feeling, and produces plays that define particularly American themes and vernaculars. The productions are known for a humane and pragmatic approach to theater that elude the trappings of traditional acting and design, adhering to form following function. Among these works are: House (2000), Showcase (2003), Ads (2010), Neutral Hero (2012), Isolde (2014), The Evening (2015), and Paradiso (2018).

Reasoning: provides a brief explanation of the themes and style of the company's works, also inline with language in the articles of similar companies, including The Wooster Group, The Civilians, the Neo-Futurists, New York Poets Theatre, and Elevator Repair Service. The third sentence provides a better sampling of the company's works over its history.

Rewrite paragraph three as:

In 2010, New York City Players launched American Playwrights Division, a program that supports early career playwrights and has produced so far: Christina Masciotti's Vision Disturbance (2010), Julia Jarcho's Dreamless Land (2011), Tina Satter's House of Dance (2013), and Jackie Sibblies Drury’s Really (2016). In 2013, the company introduced Incoming Theater Division, a program that fosters creative time and space for immigrant New Yorkers to develop their stories into performances. Aside from the works of Maxwell, the company has also created a limited number of works through partnerships with other artists and companies, including Devotion with choreographer Sarah Michelson, The Early Plays with The Wooster Group, and Open Rehearsal at the 2012 Whitney Biennial.

Reasoning: this would better center paragraph three thematically as about the non-Richard Maxwell works produced by the company

Add paragraph four as:

New York City Players is a nonprofit company. It is supported by the Howard Gilman Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation New York Theater Program, and public funds from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs in partnership with the City Council and the New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency, with the support of Governor Andrew Cuomo and the New York State Legislature. New York City Players is a member of A.R.T./New York.

Reasoning: This paragraph includes the company's non-profit status and non-profit consortium and some of the grants that support the company, in line with the articles of other similar companies, such as the The Wooster Group and The Civilians.


 * Best, Eric at NYC Players (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Reply 16-OCT-2018

 * Kindly activate the quote parameter used in the citation template, by entering the quoted material from the source which verifies the claim statements. This should be done in all instances from this edit request only where information is sought to be added.
 * When ready to proceed, please change the template's answer parameter to read from yes to no   Spintendo   20:07, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose - All of these suggested changes are promotional in nature and supported only by primary references from the organization itself. Any additions to the article should be supported by citations from reliable sources. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:38, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Additional supporting quotes have been added as requested. Eric at NYC Players (talk) 15:17, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Adding citations to your previous request is confusing. Please list the material you wish to add, with the citation from a reliable source which supports it, here.  Precede each one with an asterisk, which will create a bullet point. Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:23, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Proposed material to add

 * Add: New York City Players creates plays about people, relationships, and feeling, and produces plays that define particularly American themes and vernaculars. The productions are known for a humane and pragmatic approach to theater that elude the trappings of traditional acting and design, adhering to form following function.
 * Add: Among these works are: House (2000), Showcase (2003), Ads (2010), Neutral Hero (2012), Isolde (2014), The Evening (2015), and Paradiso (2018).
 * Add: In 2010, New York City Players launched American Playwrights Division, a program that supports early career playwrights and has produced so far: Christina Masciotti's Vision Disturbance (2010), Julia Jarcho's Dreamless Land (2011), Tina Satter's House of Dance (2013), and Jackie Sibblies Drury’s Really (2016). In 2013, the company introduced Incoming Theater Division, a program that fosters creative time and space for immigrant New Yorkers to develop their stories into performances.
 * Add: New York City Players is a nonprofit company. It is supported by the Howard Gilman Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation New York Theater Program, and public funds from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs in partnership with the City Council and the New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency, with the support of Governor Andrew Cuomo and the New York State Legislature.
 * Add: New York City Players is a member of A.R.T./New York.


 * Thanks! Eric at NYC Players (talk) 15:34, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 * ART/NY is a service organization, the company's membership is irrelevant
 * As explained before, we do not go into funding unless it's of an extraordinary nature (i.e. a MacArthur grant or something similar). Ordinary run-of-the-mill funding is not really pertinent, since all arts organizations get funding from foundations and state entities.
 * Notability has to be established using WP:reliable sources (please read that policy carefully); citing internal documents, written by the comnpany's staff does not establish notability of productions, simply their existence
 * Please cite a theater company which does not produce plays about people, relationships and feelings; art critic-speech (also known as grant-writing speech) is not appropriate, especially since when announcing grants, foundations often lift language directly from the grant application, meaning that it's written by the grantee's staff - again, not reliable
 * Citing a book with citing the page number the material came from is useless
 * Etc.
 * In short, you're pushing much too hard. You're trying to add promotionalisms to the article, and we're not here for that. (See, read, and understand WP:PROMOTION.)  You've got a nice little article about your company, about as large as its status deserves.  You're simply not going to get much more than that without providing bona fide citations from actual reliable sources.  Please don't waste our time again with stuff sourced to NYCP staff and funding organizations. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:24, 23 October 2018 (UTC)