Talk:New York City Police Department/Archive 4

Should the lead specifically list the different NYPD squads?
Is the fact that the NYPD has K9 squads, bomb squads, public housing squads etc. really something that needs to be fleshed out in the lead of the article? Would we list that major corporations have an "accounting department", "HR department", "Law department" etc? Would we do it in the lead of those article? If not, why should clutter the lead of this article with the organizational structure of the organization? Snooganssnoogans (talk) 20:34, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's comparable, since basically every notable corporation has departments of accounting, HR, and legal, whereas not every notable police department likely has special units focused on harbor patrol, air support, counter-terrorism (especially, because it's NYC where 9/11 happened), criminal intelligence, anti-organized crime, or public transportation. NYPD is the biggest PD by far in the US, in the biggest city by far in the US, and so its operations are significantly different and unique. These are worth noting. And there is no need to shrink down the lead. Let' wait and see what others think. Crossroads -talk- 23:15, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Is it unique for a police force in a large city to have dogs, boats, and helicopters? As far as I can tell, there's not surprising or insightful about the police force of a metropolis having these kinds of things. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 23:56, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Its overly specific now, almost padded out just to take up space. Mention that the NYPD has a variety of specialized units in the lead, but don't list the there, leave that to the departmental organization section. oknazevad (talk) 23:18, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it is informative to give an overview of the various kinds of work the NYPD does and it is summarising the New_York_City_Police_Department section so I say leave it. I also think the average reader will be more interested in what the NYPD do than what address they're at or what section of the NYC Rules they are covered by, which are also covered in the lede. For better readability perhaps it could be move to directly after the "largest police force in the United States" sentence as it flows on from that to some degree? Or combined as part of the employment/arrest paragraph? Tobus (talk) 00:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 August 2022
remove critics argue from line The NYPD has a history of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct, which critics argue persists to the present., user Crossroads keeps adding the weasel words and removed sources from multiple users John18534 (talk) 19:04, 25 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Under WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV, it would probably be best to leave the critics argue, or at least something that fulfills POV. I personally feel like the citations are a valid replacement for listing the authors, but The NYPD has a history of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct, which critics, such as Michael White, Andrea McArdle, and Bob Hennelly argue persists to the present. could also be acceptable. @Crossroads feel free to give input here. Gsquaredxc (talk) 21:02, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:26, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * First off, correcting the OP: they removed longstanding text repeatedly, thus edit warring to force their preferences in.
 * It's not even clear that the current claim is well-supported. The academic sources are 10 and 21 years old, and the article cited is 6 years old, yet it makes a claim about the present. It's also not at all clear where exactly these sources say (or attribute to others the claim) the whole department is corrupt/brutal/etc. up to the time of writing.
 * It's important to remember that any large city police department will occasionally have cases of a few cops who are brutal or corrupt, simply because there are so many officers and they have free will to do bad things and cover it up/lie for their friends like anyone else. This is really only noteworthy in the lead when high-quality sources establish that there is systemic, department-wide corruption or tolerance of brutality. Crossroads -talk- 04:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Just to throw my two cents in, I agree that it's not an appropriate solution to simply remove "critics argue". However, I would like to suggest a possible compromise. Instead of saying the NYPD "has a history of", it could instead say that it "The NYPD has been involved in (xyz)", or that "There have been documented cases of (xyz) in the NYPD". No reference to time period, either past or present. Not making any claims that it is happening today, but also not implying that it's purely historical. Something like that might better satisfy the NPOV. Djelibey (talk) 13:27, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree that has a history of could be re-phrased, at least in the lede. Djelibey's proposals seem good to me, as I'm not sure the current end of the lede follows NPOV. Though I'm not a native English speaker, I think the current phrasing implies that this largely defines the NYPD and that they are worse in this aspect compared to other American police departments. I don't know whether they are or not, but if they are it should also be more clearly stated. The phrasing does not appear as jarring in the section Corruption and misconduct, though it might not be neutral there either. BucketOfSquirrels (talk) 22:45, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Re-ordering of sections
The order of sections in this article seems like it could be more intuitive, so I put together this proposal:

Current order:
 * 1 History
 * 2 Department composition
 * 2.1 Women in the NYPD
 * 2.2 Place of residence
 * 3 Services
 * 4 Rank structure
 * 4.1 Badges
 * 5 Organization and structure
 * 5.1 Office of the Chief of Department
 * 5.2 Bureaus
 * 6 Technology
 * 7 Public opinion
 * 8 Corruption and misconduct
 * 9 Affiliations
 * 10 Fallen officers
 * 11 Vehicles
 * 12 Firearms
 * 12.1 On duty
 * 12.2 Discontinued from service
 * 13 See also
 * 14 References
 * 15 Further reading
 * 16 External links

Subject:
 * History summary (opening)


 * Department structure (key to opening)










 * Employees (naturally follows structure)







(people-info following people-info)
 * Interactions with the public






 * Equipment


 * (Doesn't need to be early in the article)










 * Affiliations last as it's similar to See also


 * Article end sections

Proposed order:
 * 1 History
 * 2 Organization and structure
 * 2.1 Office of the Chief of Department
 * 2.2 Bureaus
 * 3 Rank structure
 * 3.1 Badges
 * 4 Department composition
 * 4.1 Women in the NYPD
 * 4.2 Place of residence
 * 5 Fallen officers
 * 6 Services
 * 6.1 - new sub-section - statistics on use of force and other relevant metrics
 * 7 Public opinion
 * 8 Corruption and misconduct
 * 9 Technology
 * 10 Vehicles
 * 11 Firearms
 * 11.1 On duty
 * 11.2 Discontinued from service
 * 12 Affiliations
 * 13 See also
 * 14 References
 * 15 Further reading
 * 16 External links

What do you guys think? Any subjects or through lines I'm missing? BucketOfSquirrels (talk) 18:32, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Crossroads -talk- 00:47, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism
This page has been vandalized a few many times now, with people trying to remove the section about corruption. I think the page should be locked to avoid further vandalism Longtime4321 (talk) 12:38, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Longtime4321, Please turn to RFPP for help. Lemonaka (talk) 21:14, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2022
Change

established on May 23, 1845, is the primary municipal law enforcement agency within the City of New York, and the largest and one of the oldest in the United States.

To

established on May 23, 1845, is the primary municipal law enforcement agency within the City of New York, the largest and one of the oldest in the United States.

The double ‘and’ doesn’t sound right there Fargo500900 (talk) 14:03, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Lemonaka (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Already taken care of Longtime4321 (talk) 05:43, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2022
Update The Chief of Department serves as the senior sworn member of the NYPD. Kenneth Corey, a longtime NYPD veteran,[30][31] is the 42nd individual to hold the post.[32] which prior to 1987 was known as the chief of operations and before that as chief inspector.[33] to The Chief of Department serves as the senior sworn member of the NYPD. Jeffrey B. Maddrey, a longtime NYPD veteran,[30][31] is the 43nd individual to hold the post.[32] which prior to 1987 was known as the chief of operations and before that as chief inspector.[33] JohnN NYC (talk) 23:24, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 13:38, 23 December 2022 (UTC)