Talk:New York City Sheriff's Office

Isaac Smith
Obviously I'm not disputing that he existed or even that he was the first law-enforcement death. I'm just scratching my head how he is connected to the NYC Sheriff's Office if he was deputized by Westchester County before there was a NYC, even if the limits of the city later incorporated that area. --Dhartung | Talk 07:36, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Response
I can understand the confusion. I found several references to Isaac Smith and one even claimed that another individual was the first law enforcement officer to die in the line of duty, however, I felt compelled to use the source listed. The National Law Enforcement Memorial in Washington, D.C. lists Isaac Smith as the first to fall and they list him as a New York City Deputy Sheriff. This group, the Memorial, has more resources and this is who they felt was first and where he worked. This is why I placed him here. There may never be a satisfactory answer, but it seems pretty reliable to me.

Link to Important dates page: http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/impdates.htm

Pertinant passage:

May 17, 1792

'''New York City Deputy Sheriff Isaac Smith becomes the first recorded law enforcement officer to be killed in the line of duty. Deputy Sheriff Smith is the first of more than 2,300 Deputy Sheriffs to die in the line of duty.'''

Craig Floyd, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the NLEOMF stated on August 3, 2000: http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/tributes/ISmith.htm

''His name was Isaac Smith. He was a man of many talents: war hero, farmer, doctor, and politician. He was also a New York City deputy sheriff. When he got the call that another officer needed backup with an unruly drunk, Deputy Smith was quick to respond. While attempting to arrest the man for disturbing the peace, Deputy Smith was shot and killed.''

''His story, like so many others who have worn the badge, is about heroic service and selfless sacrifice. But, Isaac Smith's death is unique in one respect. He was killed on May 17, 1792. For more than 200 years his death was never mentioned nor acknowledged. Isaac Smith, and the death he had suffered so others could be safe from harm, had been forgotten.''

''But, on May 14, 2000, Isaac Smith was forgotten no more. Thanks to researchers for the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial and a retired New York City Police Sergeant named Michael Bosak, Deputy Smith's story was discovered this past year and his name was one of the 280 new names that we officially added to the Memorial in May. Isaac Smith is now officially recognized as the first law enforcement officer in the history of the United States to be killed in the performance of duty.

''Isaac Smith is also part of a rich heritage of courageous lawmen and women who have served in county law enforcement across our nation. Since his death in 1792, nearly 2,800 county officers have been killed in the line of duty--most of them with the title of sheriff (459), or deputy sheriff (1,511).''

Emphasis is mine.

I don't know how to do better. SGT141 (talk) 04:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess part of the answer is that he's "claimed"/honored by both, although oddly only Westchester County has him on their website. Hmm. --Dhartung | Talk 21:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fallen Officers
I had originally included a Fallen Officers section listing the 7 Deputies killed in the line of duty and another editor removed them stating that they were non-notable individuals and should not be listed. This editor claimed that they could not be listed unless they qualified for a stand alone article.

I disputed this and have waited patiently for his justification. It has not come, so I have returned the original section that includes links to any outside source with additional information.

I would appreciate any comments regarding this practice.SGT141 (talk) 02:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Philip Crimaldi:America's/NYC's/NY State's "Meanest Sheriff"...
When was he removed from office?...and hopefully that Chief Deputy Linda Reynolds is also no longer on the force...see, I have a clipping of an article that originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times about Crimaldi's "Joe Arpaio-style" tactics(from sometime in 1992 or 1993)...but I don't know if it can still be accessed now...but the way the story was written up, it seems that the NYC Sheriff's Office was expanding its jurisdiction STATEWIDE, as per the revised post-World War II constitution(that supposedly made him the "chief law enforcement officer of the State of New York", outranking even the NY State Police Commissioner and the NY State Attorney General), and that he bragged about going all the way to Albany and arresting prostitutes and shutting down strip clubs all over the Capital Region, without telling the Albany PD(or the NYSP) upon his arrival--or getting their OK to do his job in their city...he even bragged about going to Erie and towing a car all the way back to Manhattan just for a unpaid parking ticket from two years earlier!...can anybody confirm this?...Michaela92399 (talk) 02:50, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Crimaldi was removed from office in June 1994 when then mayor Rudy Giuliani replaced him with Kerry John Katsorhis. And Kinda Reynolds retired from the Sheriffs Office a few years ago. Here are 2 links. For the second one, you need to scroll down to page 4.  MOOOOOPS (talk) 20:45, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

1626?
Im not going to change it, but isnt the 1626 establishment claim rather dubious? The first colonisers arrived only 2 years before, and these were dutch colonisers. If you want to count whatever they established in 1626 as the "New york police sheriff", then the same should be done for all other colonies (for example, shouldnt the plymouth police be then traced back to when the pilgrim fathers landed there?). Omegastar (talk) 17:43, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 1626 is when the New York COUNTY Sheriff's Office was created. Each borough (county) of New York City had their own sheriff's office until they were consolidated into a single unified citywide New York City Sheriff's Office in 1942. The New York City Sheriff's Office is completely independent of the New York City Police Department, though deputy sheriff's can and do make arrests, write traffic citations, etc Cfagan1987 (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The question would seem to be rather whether it was the New YORK County Sheriff's office that was created, since at the time the place was the Dutch colony of New (Nieuw) Amsterdam. I would say that this seeming discrepancy is resultant from the fact that New York County and New York City have always considered themselves, and have always been recognized, as the legal successor-in-interest to New Amsterdam.  If there is an answer to this, that would seem to be it.  Conversely, when  Plymouth Colony was absorbed into the Colony of Massachusetts Bay, Massachusetts Bay/Massachusetts was the surviving entity. 2600:1004:B11A:FC77:282F:8D17:888E:38DF (talk) 01:40, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * "The New York City Sheriff's Office originated in 1626 as the New York County Sheriff's Office" is incorrect. The meaning of this sentence is that, in 1626, the office was the New York County Sheriff's Office. The problem is that, in 1626, there was no such thing as a "sheriff" (schout was probably the closest thing), there was no "county," and there was no New York. This should be re-worded to perhaps two sentences: The New York City Sheriff's Office originated in 1626 under the Dutch. Under later English rule, the Dutch position was first known as the New York County Sheriff's Office. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bjengles3 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Restoration of historical county sheriffs
I am sorry you do not like the list, but there is no valid reason to remove it. Yes, it is incomplete, but so is all of Wikipedia. It would be better to help add in missing information rather than delete it because it is incomplete. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:57, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason to remove it is because they never were part of this agency, and so are outside scope. The article is on the current agency, not all sheriffs in what is now New York City. More importantly, these are far better served as a category, which you attempted to link. I'm not deleting it (just) because it's incomplete, but because this is the wrong place for that information. oknazevad (talk) 15:29, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I have to disagree, you are not citing a valid !Wikilaw. The article on the United States discuses 15,000 years of history before there was an entity called "United States". Categories are not in chronological order, they do not allow for showing non-consecutive terms and cannot be annotated in any way, they cannot be linked to references. Categories are a navigation device, not a way to transmit information. Also note that the list of Fallen Officers all predate the 1942 creation of the current sheriffs office. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 15:53, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Should historical sheriffs be listed from before the fusing of the five boroughs and from before the office had the current name?

 * Yes, all articles discuss predecessor agencies. The article on the United States discusses history 15,000 years prior to the creation of the United States. Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 15:59, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Split into a sub article. A more appropriate place for it, where gaps may be more easily filled. Honestly, should not have been added until a more complete draft was prepared by the adder in their sandbox; the current piecemeal work bloats the edit history, and sees many minor error corrections. That's what draft space is for. Secondly, this is not something that requires a full RFC; that's for intractable problems involving many editors, not a minor disagreement between two that has been going on for less than a day. I'm removing the tag. Third, WP:NOTBURO. There is no "!wikilaw", it's all based on consensus, and there's no consensus to include these yet; that edit summary is clearly trying to play wikilawyer so you can get the article the way you want them. Fourth, the objected to material does not go back into the article while the discussion is ongoing. Fifth, again, before we start adding lists of historical predecessor offices, we really need the list of holders of the current office. Because this is first and foremost about the current office, and only covers its predecessor offices in one paragraph as part of the background. oknazevad (talk) 19:24, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Please do not remove RFC tags that you have not added, it is just another example of bad faith edits. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 20:14, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Sheriffs of King County (1683–1929)
Sheriffs of King County (1683–1929) with research by June Koffi of the Brooklyn Public Library


 * Sheriff Stillwell    1683  October
 * Roeloff Martense 1685 October
 * Gerrit Strycker 1686 October
 * Myndert Coerten 1690 December 13
 * Gerrit Strycker 1691 March 21
 * Jacobus Kiersted 1694 May 24
 * Englebert Lott 1698 October
 * John Elbertson 1699 October
 * Benjamin Vandewater 1700 October
 * Richard Stillwell 1702 October
 * Benjamin Vandewater 1715 October
 * Tunis Lott 1717 October
 * Dominicus Vanderveer 1730 October
 * Peter Strycker 1736 October
 * Dominicus Vanderveer 1738 February 24
 * Jacobus Ryder 1740 October
 * Maurice Lott 1754 October
 * Rem Vanderbilt 1762 October
 * Jeremiah Vanderbil 1763 October
 * Nicholas Couwenhoven 1766 October
 * Alexander Forbush 1766 November 24
 * Rutger Van Brunt 1767 October
 * William Boerum 1784 February 4
 * Peter Vandervoort 1785 September 28
 * Charles Turnbull (sheriff) 1788 December 29
 * John Vanderveer 1791 March 8
 * Cornelius Bergen 1793 February 18
 * Peter S. Cortelyou 1797 February 7
 * Cornelius Bergen 1800 February 17
 * John Schoonmaker 1804 February 16
 * Benjamin Birdsall (sheriff) 1807 March 9
 * John Dean (sheriff) 1810 February 26
 * Abiel Titus 1811 February 5
 * William D. Creed 1811 June 5
 * John Dean (sheriff) 1813 March 23
 * Lawrence Brower 1815 March28
 * Jacob Garrison 1817 March 19
 * John Wyckoff (sheriff) 1817 August 29
 * John T. Bergen 1821 February 12
 * John T. Bergen 1822 November
 * John Wyckoff 1825 November
 * John T. Bergen 1828 November
 * John Lawrence (sheriff)   1831 March 15 *appointed vice, Bergen resigned
 * John Van Dyne 1834 November
 * William M. Udall 1837 November
 * Francis B. Strycker 1841 November
 * William Jenkins 1843 November
 * Daniel Van Voorhies 1846 November
 * Andrew B. Hodges 1849 November
 * Englebert Lott 1852 November
 * Jerome Ryerson 1855 November
 * George Remson 1857 April3 *appointed vice, Ryerson deceased
 * Burdett Stryker 1857 November
 * Anthony Campbell 1860 November
 * John McNamee 1863 November
 * Patrick Campbell 1866 November
 * Andrew Walter 1869 November
 * Aras G. Williams 1872 November
 * Albert Daggett 1875 November
 * Thomas M. Riley 1878 November
 * Lewis R. Stegman 1881 November
 * Charles B. Farley 1884 November
 * Clark D. Rhinehart 1887 November
 * John Courtney 1890
 * William J. Buttling 1893 November
 * Frank D. Creamer 1898
 * William Waltton 1900
 * Charles Guden 1902
 * Henry Hesterberg 1904
 * Alfred T. Hobley 1906
 * J. S. Shea 1910
 * Julis Harburger 1912
 * Charles Blakeslee Law 1911-1913 (exp Dec, 31.1913)
 * L.M. Swasey 1914-1915 (exp Dec. 31. 1915
 * Ed Rieglemann 1916-1917
 * D. J. Griffin 1918-1919 (exp Dec 31,1919)
 * John Drescher 1920-1921
 * P. B. Seery 1922-1923 (exp 12/31/23)
 * J. N. Harman             1924-1925 (exp 12/31/25)
 * Frank J. Taylor 1927-1928 (exp 12/31/28)
 * Herman M. Hessberg 1929-1930 (exp 12/31/30)

This list was compiled from the following resources
 * Brooklyn City and Kings County Record: Budget of General Information

Compiled and published by William H. Smith Room 6, Montague Hall, Court Street -1855
 * Manual of the Common Council of the City Brooklyn 1859-60

Compiled by William G Bishop, City Clerk – 1859
 * Brooklyn Citizen Almanac 1894
 * Brooklyn Daily Eagle Almanacs (1887 – 1929)

Press of Brooklyn Daily Eagle and Job Department

What's the difference between NYPD and the NYCSO?
Unfortunately, neither this article nor the one on the NYPD explain the role that each agency plays and the differences between them.

As a substitute, I found this quite helpful. Maikel (talk) 18:21, 16 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The difference between the two is, the NYPD is the primary law enforcement agency in NYC, which means, everything law enforcement wise, goes through them (gun permits, homicide investigations, highway/street enforcement, etc). The NYC Sheriff’s Office, which once was the the primary law enforcement authority in the separate counties in NYC (NY County, Bronx County, etc), has turned over that authority to the newly formed NYPD, once the city became incorporated with the five boros/counties (Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, Bronx, and Manhattan). The Sheriff’s Office did not disband, but took on a lesser role in law enforcement, where they were in charge of the jail system, and became the “civil” law enforcement arm of the lower courts (family, civil courts). The Dept. of Corrections was formed, and the authority was taken from the Sheriff’s office once again. The NYPD are designated as “police officers”, which has authority to pursue criminals out of state (only while engaged), stop frisk and search a suspect, and execute a search warrant. Though the Sheriff’s Deputies are also law enforcement officers, they are designated as “peace officers”, meaning they have limitations on their status. They can make warrantless arrest on and off duty, issues summonses, and other things police officers can do, but they can’t pursue out of state, stop frisk and search (they have to arrest first, then they can search), and they can’t execute search warrants (unless a police officer is present), and unless by executive order of the Governor, which is mainly used for NYS Parole Officers to search for parolees (also designated as Peace Officer). 68.174.228.245 (talk) 15:44, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

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