Talk:New York State Route 104/GA1

GA Review
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Comments: I am placing the article on hold. Dough4872 (talk) 17:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) It it nessecary to use "upstate" again in the second sentence of the lead?
 * Yes. :P In all seriousness, I have no idea why I added the second one. Fixed.
 * 1) The sentences "The western terminus of NY 104 is at an intersection with NY 384 in Niagara Falls, Niagara County. Its eastern terminus is at NY 13 in the town of Williamstown, Oswego County." should be combined.
 * Done, although the two were split on NY 383 and it was not brought up.
 * 1) In the sentence "The portion of NY 104 between Rochester and the village of Webster east of Rochester is a limited-access highway known as the Keeler Street Expressway (west of NY 590) and the Irondequoit–Wayne County Expressway (east of NY 590); from Webster to Oswego, NY 104 is a super two highway.", you use "Rochester" twice close together. Also, "west of NY 590" and "east of NY 590" should not be in parentheses.
 * Fixed.
 * 1) In the sentence "The majority of Ridge Road, plus modern NY 104 from the village of Red Creek to the town of Mexico, were originally designated as part of Route 30, an unsigned legislative route, early in the 20th century.", change "were" to "was".
 * Partially done; sentence was reworded slightly, but I don't believe "was" should be used in a sentence discussing two segments of road, even if they're one continuous highway.
 * 1) "super twos" sounds colliqual.
 * I don't agree. Our article on super two highways is located at "super two", and it indicates that a valid name to use is "super two".
 * 1) In describing road names, indicate what kind it is "street", "avenue", "road", etc. Do not just say "First" or "Main".
 * I think fixed, the only location I didn't use the full name is in Niagara Falls.
 * 1) In the sentence "The Seaway Trail crosses over NY 384 and follows NY 104 north on First for one block, then both veer onto Main at a junction with the Robert Moses State Parkway.", do not use "then" in descrbing progress of route and replace "veer" as it sounds colliqual.
 * I don't agree with the latter; "veer" is basically a synonym for "turn", and when a route is 200 miles long, you have to come up with enough different words to say the same thing to keep the prose fresh. Otherwise, saying the same thing over and over again is going to turn off readers.
 * 1) "here aptly named College Avenue." sounds awkward.
 * I don't agree, but I removed "aptly" anyway.
 * 1) Again, avoid using "then" to describe progress of route.
 * All uses eliminated through one method or another.
 * 1) "the Parkway" sounds colliqual.
 * Changed to lowercase.
 * 1) NY 18F's southern terminus is at NY 104, not its eastern terminus.
 * Whoops, good catch. Fixed.
 * 1) The sentence "Due to how the exit with NY 18F and the Moses Parkway is configured, NY 104 intersects NY 18 again east of the exit by way of another interchange." sounds awkward.
 * Rewrote.
 * 1) "climaxing at the junction of NY 104 and NY 78." sounds awkward.
 * Reworded.
 * 1) Change "the boundary-straddling NY 269" to "NY 269, which runs along the county line"
 * Reworded.
 * 1) "the 104 expressway" and "the Bay Bridge" sound colliqual.
 * Resolved by making both items generic.
 * 1) "where the median separating the two directions of NY 104 comes to an end prior to an intersection with the northern terminus of NY 21 in the hamlet of the same name" sounds wordy.
 * Split into two sentences and reworded.
 * 1) "NY 104 acts as the northern terminus of NY 88" sounds awkward.
 * Reworded.
 * 1) Can a seven-mile route through a county be considered "brief"?
 * I believe it's justified (seven miles out of a total of 200 is a drop in the bucket, so to speak), but I've reworded it anyway.
 * 1) What makes all the communities between Williamson and Oswego not significant?
 * Clarified. For the record, there's only two major communities along 104 between the two locations, and 104 bypasses both of them.
 * 1) "as fields and lush forests prominently return"? Change to "as fields and forests return along the route".
 * Reworded.
 * 1) In the next sentence, remove "through said fields and forests".
 * Done.
 * 1) In the route description, can some more information be added about the surroundings in places where you simply list what towns the route heads through within a several mile stretch, such as in the last sentence of the route description? It would help provide a more visual picture of the route.
 * Done, somewhat. The overwhelming majority of 104 east of Oswego goes through heavily rural areas, which is probably why I glossed over it.
 * 1) In the History section, you say that "nor did US 4 even enter New York". That is not true as US 4 does run through New York, as it has since 1926.
 * Hmm...oops. :P I wonder why no one corrected that before this.
 * 1) The sentences "Work began in the 1940s on new super two alignments for US 104 in Wayne, Cayuga, and Oswego Counties. The new highway would parallel Ridge Road and serve as a bypass of the communities along it." need to be rephrased as it sounds a little unclear.
 * Reworded.
 * 1) The snetences " East of the super two, a bypass was constructed around the village of Hannibal during the 1960s. It was opened to traffic by 1964." should be combined.
 * Fixed.
 * 1) Comma not needed in sentence "The first section from North Goodman Street to the Sea Breeze Expressway was completed by 1968,[28][29] while the remainder opened in late 1969."
 * Resolved.
 * 1) Are any exact dates for the approximations in the history section known?
 * Not at the moment, but if I ever attempted to go for A-Class or FA, I would attempt to research them. I believe what's there is adequate for GA.
 * 1) Is the creation date of NY 104 Truck known?
 * No, all "special routes" of state highways in New York are unofficial; that is, there is no DOT document that lists them all nor are any of them marked on maps. I take both to mean that all are locally assigned. If I had to give a date, I would say around the time the expressway opened, or at least whenever they realized that the connection at St. Paul Street was missing - so probably 1970s or so. However, I have nothing to support this (and I doubt anything exists) so I refrained from adding a date to the article.
 * 1) Is the length of NY 104 Truck 0.9 mi or 1.3 mi? It sounds unclear as the 0.9 may only be referring to a portion of the route.
 * It is 1.3 miles; clarified.
 * 1) Can the Major intersections table be merged into one hybrid junvtion/exit list? See New Jersey Route 29 for an example of how this can be done.
 * Combining them would cause the article to violate the ELG, since colors are prohibited in exit lists. As it is right now, it technically meets ELG standards. This is an issue that can and should be brought up at WT:USRD; I've been trying to abolish the junction list colors for years but no one has supported the idea.
 * 1) Are the street names known for the routes in the Major intersections tables?
 * Added most names where one exists; remember that the majority of routes are in rural areas and are known only by their number.
 * 1) References 21 and 34 are to personal websites and may not be reliable sources.
 * I'm well aware of that, which is why I attempted to supplement them with reliable sources that backed up the SPS's claims.


 * Thanks for the review. –  T M F 14:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Re #26, I believe the comma is correct, as the second clause is independent. Powers T 14:20, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I will pass the article. However, we do need to bring up a discussion with the exit lists at WT:USRD as I still believe it should be combined into one list, but we can leave it the way it is now. Dough4872 (talk) 17:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)