Talk:Ney

Comments
maybe mention how different cultures/peoples play or use the ney? eg. persian style ney uses the inside of the top mouth to make unique sound (i.e. mention the various unconventional ways of playing the ney) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.5.140 (talk) 08:48, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Some science people believe that it was firstly found and played by Summerians. Althought, when it comes Ney, many people think that it is a populer Sunni Turkish culture, most powerful Neyzens( who plays the ney )are Shi Turks.

Copyright problems?
This article appears to be taken wholely from http://www.neyneva.com/eng/default.asp GulDan 04:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Can any of the contributing editors confirm that they originally wrote the text? The wikipedia article seems to have been written fairly gradually, which leads me to suspect it might be the other way around.  But I don't know for sure.  --jonsafari 19:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Some uncited claims
Hi. I've removed a few sentences from the article, text below. The problems I see with the material is that it's uncited, somewhat opinionated, and weasel-worded. However, the underlying points are interesting and the ney is definitely an unusual instrument, so if we can present these as facts that can be verified, then they'd be a good part of the article. --Ds13 16:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The gentle sound of the ney (wind instrument that produces a sound resembling the flute) calms the nervous system, reduces high blood pressure and tiredness, and promotes good sleep. The ney is believed to awaken a reflective mood, causing a person to appreciate and enjoy nature. It is linked to deep philosophical ideas.

"Related instruments"
I deleted "Related instruments: The Armenian "Duduk", Azerbaijani "balaban", and the Balcanian qernate (gırnata) are instruments used in other parts of the Middle East."

The ney is an end-blown flute. Duduk and balaban are double-reeds, and gırnata is a clarinet, a single-reed. The ney in unrelated to these instruments. Neyzenhasan 21:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC).

Salamiya/salamiyya
The salamiya/salamiyya (small ney) should be mentioned. Badagnani (talk) 19:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

poor article
this article is very poorly written. there are more info on "related instruments" than there is on ney. the main text says that it is one of the oldest instruments, while the info box indicates it was developed by dervish khan recently...it is not up to standards of wikipedia nor it is worthy of ney —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.66.86.137 (talk) 18:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments on improving the entry
The article lacks definition of what a ney is. It is and end blown flute (as opposed to a side blown flute). It is held perpendicular to the face, as opposed to other flutes which are played transverse. A ney is basically an empty tube, and the player provides the embouchure. It is traditionally made from a plant, though it is possible to make it from modern materials.

Then there are many neys in different countries which should all be listed. The main ones I'm aware of are Turkish ney, Persian ney, Egyptian ney (which I think is the same as the "Arab" ney), Bulgarian Kaval, a Siberian ney, and a double ney from Baluchistan (2 tubes with holes tied together).

Ney can be blown with the lips (almost all) or with the tongue (Persian ney only, though some Turks claim it is done like that in certain regions there too, I don't know).

I am an expert in Persian ney and have an extensive website (http://members.shaw.ca/persianney) on the subject which should be cited. Feel free to take information from there.

The statement on the page that the holes are arranged by semitones is nonsense. This is not true for any ney.

Arab and Egytian neys have 6 holes in the front and one for the thumb, Persian neys 5 in the front and 1 for the thumb. Not "usually", always!

Regarding objectivity, all these various neys are different instruments, and none should be depicted as better than the other. (Of course I have my personal preference.)

Hope this helps. I'd be happy to help with improving this subject.

Kees (email: persianney@shaw.ca)

174.7.186.199 (talk) 02:47, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:55, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Kamancheh player (by Ibrahim Jabbar-Beik).jpg
 * Painting ney.jpg

Recent Edit Warring - Ney Ethnic Origins
It's quite established here on Wiki as well as our own Wikitionary that the Ney is a Persian word, and while Egypt has had reed instruments attested to, the conflation between reed instruments in antiquity with a rather modern version of it through the Ney is rather misleading. I doubt they are one in the same and the Ney is likely a descendant of the many types of reed instruments that developed over the course of 3000 years, but I digress.

The Ney as we know it has a Persian word associated with it, our Wikitionary and other sources corroborate that, and I'm sure other ethnicities have other terms for it but the Ney is a Persian word, it's even used in common language as the descriptor for drinking straws in Iran and Iranian communities. The recent IP User who not only blanket wiped out all notions of it's Persian root also wiped out every other ethnic group outside the Arab one who uses it. In his own edits he even leaves the Qajar Iranian woman's image of her playing the flute. I suppose they're suggesting Iran is part of the Arab world as well? Why else would they leave it there but wipe out the musical modalities or traditions that use it? I am aware other varieties of the instrument exist such as, the Turkish Ney, derivatives of the Ney itself.

I've looked at many sources around the net and tried to find any notion that the "Ney" has anything other than an Iranian etymology, I've only found a few blogs and Youtube channels that refer to the Ney as an Arabic instrument but without explaining the etymological root or citing their sources. They're sometimes not even run by Arab or Iranian people.

The IP User tried to attach the website "https://www.ethnicmusical.com/ney/5-interesting-facts-about-arabic-ney/", the website reads like a blog, cites no sources, and here's a good bit -

"5. Sound Reminiscent of Desert and Oasis It has a very distinct and distinguished sound. It is said to be reminiscent of the deserts and oasis as it is tragic and mournful but gives some kind of hope and life at the same time. "

I mean this is just ridiculously written. It's clearly a case of unfamiliarity through Orientalist lens that conflates the diverse ethnic groups in the Middle East as a monolith, and Wikipedia should strive to be as nuanced and specific as possible. That kind of conflation does nothing but harm the region with stereotypes of deserts, dunes, and camels. Further more, they even have an article on the site called "The Persian Ney". So already, wiping out all ethnicities associated with the Ney in their edits conflicts with his supposed "source".

This looks like Pan-Arabism in action, I think users on this site need to be made more aware of certain ethnic groups pushing nationalistic ideas, as it usually looks like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.189.149.94 (talk) 20:03, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, the link which describes the supposed Egyptian origins of the Ney is dead, or at least, I cannot access it (someone verify) - https://www.asor.org/anetoday/2018/01/earliest-music-egypt/
 * I suggest removing the line or finding a new verified citation for it, as once again, where do we suggest the modern Ney to be the same as depictions of reed instruments in antiquity? 142.189.149.94 (talk) 21:47, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I can't see the referenced article re 'Egyptian origins of the Ney' ('The Earliest Music in Ancient Egypt'
 * By Heidi Köpp-Junk) either so presumably best to remove the line. Yadsalohcin (talk) 08:56, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Tidies to refs
Ref 7 deserves a better title than "Archived copy": I'd suggest "The Worldwide distribution of the transverse flute". Ref 8 would benefit from an extra parameter, e.g. |website=www.pamirtours.tj or similar. HTH, Yadsalohcin (talk) 23:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)