Talk:Niccolò de' Conti

Untitled
I noticed a spelling mistake in the article entitled "Niccolò Da Conti". Should be "occurred" not "occured". This is in the summary section at the beginning of the article. However, there is no Edit button here. How do I correct the mistake?


 * For the opening section, which has no [Edit] link to it, click on the "Edit this page" at the top of the page. RickK 06:27, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

So did he die a muslim or christian?

Dating problems
Quoth the article:


 * Around 1440 Da Conti sailed back to India ... from where he travelled overland via Mt. Sinai to Cairo ... Niccolò Da Conti returned to Venice in 1444...

But also:


 *  Poggio's recording of Niccolò's account, made in 1439...

How can these dates be reconciled? --Jfruh 15:48, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Date Questions Indeed?
I too have a problem with some of the dates and source materials in this interesting article. Having just read 1421 by Gavin Menzies I wanted to know more about Da Conti - I think more expertise is required here but it's a good start just the dates seem a bit screwy just when did Poggio and Da Conti sit down and was it in Venice, etc? --Robdav69 22:00 24 July 2006 (GMT)

Niccolò de' Conti or Niccolò Conti?
Niccolò da Conti— the da/dei is never capitalised— signifies "Niccolò from Conti", as Leonardo da Vinci was from Vinci. The name Niccolò de' Conti signifies "Niccolò of the Conti family", or "Niccolò of the lineage of the [unspecified] counts". The question remains whether he is simply Niccolò Conti. --Wetman (talk) 22:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:EugeneIV.jpg
Image:EugeneIV.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:EugeneIV.jpg
Image:EugeneIV.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 13:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Dates of birth and death
The 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica didn't know when he was born or died. No source is cited for these dates in our article, so how do we know them? Andrew Dalby 20:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, I found a source and cited it. Andrew Dalby 20:41, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

= = Conflict in what translation say on size of ships = = = The Hakluyt Society translation of Niccolo de' Conti account on the ship size is different by 100% from the size given in the source used by Needham. Hakluyt Society translation by J. Winters Jones clearly list 2000 butts, not 2000 tons. Since the article was using the J. Winter Jones' translation, I changed the word tons to butts, which is what the reference used. A butt is half a ton. Needham's reference of 2000 tons was based on on an old Tudor English translation, and reflects the archaic spelling. Since the J. Winter Jones translation was based directly on the Italian, and uses the unusual "butts", I think is is more likely to be accurate. But in any case,the difference in the translations must be noted. Attached in the reference was a link to a scanned copy of the Hakluyt Society's book, so anyone can open up the link and verify for themselves.

If we want the passage to say 2000 tons, then a different reference should be used for the quote, but it still needs to be pointed out that some translations have the ship dimensions as half that size. It would be interesting to see what the original Italian has. Perhaps different manuscripts have different units listed, or some obscure unit whose value wasn't clearly know, which count account for the differences in translation.

The other think about the passage was the rather misleading comment about these ships being 4 times the size Western galleons. While that is true for most galleons, it is not true for Manila galleons were also 2000 tons. And the large carracks could be 1000 tons, which could be the same size as the Junks Conti mentions. Conti was a Venetian, and when he says bigger than our ships, it is not clear whether he means bigger than Venetian ships, or European ships in general. Venetians at the time were mostly using galleys, which were probably smaller than the largest round ships and carracks that the were available in the West at the time. It is possible that Marco Polo and Niccolo de' Conti were thinking about just Venetian ships.

The passage also does not clearly identify these ships as Chinese. It comes after the discussion of navigation methods by Indian sailors, but the ship construction matches what we know of Chinese ships. Perhaps, because these ships sailed in Indian waters, Conti regarded them as Indian ships. Or there were some Indians or local Chinese constructing ships along Chinese designs.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.111.162.10 (talk) 21:59, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Source cited uses "butts" an old unit, not tons as originally said in the article. Changes should be let stand
Qiushufang keeps undoing the change, but they should stand. The source reference in the Conti quote about the size of the ships says 2000 butts, not 2000 tons as the article listed. There are other translations that do give 2000 tons, namely the reference used by Needham, but that is not what the Wikipedia article was quoting. I have added links that show the value of the butt. I have tried to talk to Qiushufang, but he has not responded to any of my comments.

Since Wikipedia is often the main source that people use for a topic, it is important to let the reader know that there are major differences in the size given in different translations. I see no reason when why the comments should not stand. I am OK with using the original language of 2000 tons, and just making a comment that other translations have 2000 butts, which is only equivalent to 1000 tons. But I don't agree with just undoing the changes without discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.111.162.10 (talk) 01:43, 7 March 2019 (UTC)