Talk:Nick Drake/Archive 1

Illness
This article makes several references to "his illness" but it is never specifically named. (Or did I just miss it somewhere within the article?)
 * his depression is mentioned several times in the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 18:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Scholarship?
I may be wrong, but I think in Trevor Dann's biography of Drake he specifies that Drake did not win a scholarship to Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge, but just a place there--he was an unexceptional student academically in his last years at Marlborough and I gather from the biographies that he was given a place at Cambridge based on his potential. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.182.233.155 (talk • contribs) 10:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Influences
Jeff Tweedy (of Wilco) is also among artists who were inspired by Nick Drake. If you read this article on his favorite albums, he lists Nick Drake's Pink Moon and says "[This record caused me to see that] you can create your own universe with just a vocal and a guitar" http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=35534 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.162.177 (talk) 04:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I think this article "overdoes it," so to speak, with regard to the mention of artists that consider Drake an "important influence." I have been watching this article over the past six months or so and have noticed that, gradually, more and more keep slipping in. Not that these things are in any way factually inaccurate; it may be well and good that Norah Jones considers Drake an influence. My point is simply that the way they are presented here are too numerous and "tacked on," and have begun to ruin the prose of the article--which, in my opinion, used to flow beautifully from one paragraph to the next. I'd like the originator to fix this, as I feel that it's a great article that I don't want to edit.--Kwan-Trill 19:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

is it really appropriate to put nick drake under the suicide category? it is and never will be clear if he took his own life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.164.61.162 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 30 October 2005.

What about the posthumous releases, and the recent BBC Radio 2 documentary? Andy Mabbett 21:47, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * - blankfaze | (&#1073;&#1077;&#1089;&#1077;&#1076;&#1072;!)  21:55, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Andy Mabbett 22:40, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Removed it. I remember reading some years ago that the AD's he was on back then were fatal if more than one was taken. According to the article/recollection, it isn't clear if ND knew that or not. I don't remember if it said his doctors knew but didn't tell, or not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.239.5.242 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 12 February 2006.

Lyrics
I wonder... Would it improve the page to have a little section of quotations from Drake's lyrics (River Man, Road, etc.)? ZephyrAnycon 18:56, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * You could put it on Wikiquote; i just added a link to Wikiquote for Nick Drake at the bottom of the article. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 23:01, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

Is it correct to describe "Fairport Convention" as a "supergroup"? Within Wikipedia, the word supergroup is defined as a group that consists of people who are already famous. That was not true of Fairport when they first got together. Ogg 10:45, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * certainly not correct; I'll fix that. --jamesgibbon 14:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

^^Amen!

Posthumous Popularity
Elliott Smith does not consider him an influence, he hadn't heard of him until late in his career. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.58.115.23 (talk • contribs) 04:35, 8 July 2005.

I'm not sure Elliott ever heard his music. I think Larry Crane once tried to get Elliott to listen to one of Nick's records, but not much came of it. Plenty of people have compared Elliott to Nick though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.184.30.132 (talk) 10:16, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

See : http://www.theredalert.com/features/crane.php

Here is a quote from that article from Crane:

"The first time I heard Roman Candle, I said, “Wow, that sounds like Nick Drake.” I remember mentioning Nick Drake to him once and getting kind of a “Huh, oh yeah, he’s okay” response.  I don’t think if you looked at his record collection - well, he really didn’t have one...The things he had were like Dylan and The Band and some flamenco guitar stuff.  I remember hanging out with him in Los Angeles and he had Left Bank and the Zombies box set - orchestral pop stuff that he was curious about...He liked Chicago and The Scorpions...He wasn’t the kind of guy to obsessively analyze other people’s work.  I don’t know that he even owned a Nick Drake record.  He wasn’t an obsessive record collector; he seemed to just leave a trail of records with his friends."

So I doubt you can say that Elliott was ever influenced by Nick. The Beatles yes, Nick no, sorry. Though they lived similar lives, and both appear in The Royal Tennebaums, that's the only link I can see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.184.30.132 (talk) 10:21, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

That and the fact that Autum De Wilde's cover for Elliott's record figure 8 was inspired by the Five Leaves Left cover. But I don't think Elliott suggested it. She says this in her Elliott photo book pg 136. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.184.30.132 (talk) 10:28, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Father's occupation
I'm trying to fact-check this change:  Google has lots of articles stating that Nick Drake's father was a medical doctor - but most seem to be derived from Wikipedia itself. There is one which says he was an engineer:  Richard W.M. Jones 13:33, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


 * his father was most certainly and engineer in uganda —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.201.11.102 (talk • contribs) 23:26, 30 October 2005.

Or ... surely that was Burma? 80.0.124.200 21:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * According to the liner notes of the Fruit Tree boxed set, his father was an engineer in Burma. Freshacconci 12:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

San Francisco Public Radio station KQED has recently aired a City Arts and Lectures program called Remembering Nick Drake (http://www.kqed.org/programs/radio/archive.jsp?progID=RD13) where Gabrielle Drake talked about the origins of the posthumous album with his early recordings. She said something very close to this: "our father was an (electronics? - not sure about this) engineer, so we had recording equipment at home much earlier than other households. That is how the early tapes of Nick came about". Unfortunately, this program does not provide transcripts, tapes or audio, so my memory is the only proof I can offer. But it has been less than 24hrs since I heard this. I went straight to wiki after the show :). Y2mamatambien (talk) 10:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC) Italic text

minor change
the use of "contemporary" was improper in that context; a person naive to the artists following that statement would be unsure if those artists existed in Drake's time or ours. Replaced it with "modern." 147.222.243.236 22:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Singles
what does b/w stand for? anyone? 87.115.228.253 00:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

backed with - ie a side backed with b side. The joys of vinyl! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.3.248.243 (talk • contribs) 00:38, 12 February 2006.

Pink Moon sessions
Where does it say that the sessions recorded for Pink Moon were both recorded in precisely two hours each or that they both started at midnight? I know that Nick recorded this album in two nights and late at night but this seems a bit too specific. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.253.46.56 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 25 January 2006.

done after midnight to save on recording costs, from what I remember —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.26.180 (talk) 22:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

It was in the Patrick Humphries book somewhere i'm sure of it. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Category Removal
I removed the Suicide and Clinical Depression categories as no one knows what happened when he died and he may have been depressed but Clinically Depressed? Speculation in the article is find, as long as it is stated as specualtion, placing him in the cats is stating it as fact. IMO to include him in these categories is unencyclodedic and POV. If refs are known that would place him in these cats please show them, otherwise it just seems morbid to include them. --KaptKos 07:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The source I cited contains quotes describing the cause of his depression as the lack of record sales. "When Bryter Layter didn't give Nick the success that everyone had expected, selling just 3-4000 copies at the time, Nick, who was already shy and introspective, began to show signs of depression" -- dUtch 23:54, 29 June 2006


 * Nick Drake died from an overdose, whether deliberate or accidental, of Amitriptyline (trade name Tryptizol), a tricyclic antidepressant. This medication, which requires a prescription, has no other purpose but the treatment of depression -- except possibly as a treatment for bedwetting (and a few off-label uses probably not known 30 years ago).  His parents were aware he was taking it, so one assumes it had been prescribed by a physician.  If it had been prescribed by a physician, it is fair to assume it was prescribed for depression.  If a physician prescribed him medication for depression, then the physician must have diagnosed him as depressed.  There is no other meaning of  "clinically depressed" besides being diagnosed as depressed by a physician, so I'm at rather a loss to see how including him in this category could be considered either morbid or speculative. --Rrburke 17:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

From http://www.michaelorgan.org.au/drake4.htm ''The debilitating effects of such an illness can be extreme. It appears from published testimony that Nick Drake’s mental illness was very real, and that in dealing with it his parents Rodney and Molly played a central role. After 1971 Nick was forced to return home in order to deal with his illness. He could not survive alone, in his London apartment, but needed extra care.'' His parents would have assisted financially in having his illness diagnosed, in enabling Nick to be hospitalised during the most extreme periods of illness, and in ensuring that he had access to the various medications which could help him deal with the depression. ''It seems that the precise details of Nick’s illness and treatment were kept largely quiet, and within the family, perhaps due to the stigma then attached to mental illness, and fears that it could affect his career as a musician. It is unclear what was made public whilst he was still alive, though obviously a lot came out after his death, e.g. his hospitalisation and use of prescription drugs.''Cuvtixo 17:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Face to wall in recording studio and shyness
Joe Boyd's recently released book "White Bicycles: Making Music in the 1960s" (Serpent's Tail, ISBN 1852429100) devotes the best part of two chapters to Boyd's recollections of Drake and working with him.

Boyd recalls that the released version of "River Man" was recorded in the studio with Drake and the orchestra following a conductor. Nowhere is there any mention of Drake chosing to record with his face to the wall. Robert Kirby was unable to come up with a suitable arrangement and so another arranger, Harry Robinson, was bought in. Drake and Boyd met with Robinson and Drake played along with a demo of the song stipulating what he wanted at various points of the song.

Boyd also describes engineer John Wood at length. Wood was an old style engineer who would spend a lot of time placing artists and microphones in different positions until he had the sound he wanted. Wood was also a fairly blunt character, it seems unlikely that he'd compromise a recording by indulging some musician's desire to face a wall.

Boyd makes it clear that Drake lacked confidence and was often undemonstrative, but I do think that urban legend has made Drake out to be shyer and more withdrawn than he really was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bob Dubery (talk • contribs) 04:58, 3 July 2006.


 * recording acoustic guitar facing the wall is also a recording technique. it's done to diffuse the sound by bouncing off the wall and make it 'bigger'. it's not necessarily an indicator of shyness or withdrawal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 18:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Lane Changes?
What on earth does lane changes mean in the following context?

'He attended public school at Marlborough College, where he learned how to perform lane changes to perfection.' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Driverpj (talk • contribs) 14:59, 21 July 2006.


 * Vandalism, gone now. --Coil00 19:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

i think i remember reading richard thompson's name on the sleeve of a couple nick drake records. i just thought that was something interesting (although hardly surprising) that might be included. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.73.97.149 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 24 July 2006.

j.nemo

Anglo-Burmese
I added the category because on Anglo-Burmese people, it lists Drake as a notable. If this is inaccurate, see that page. Arual 10:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've removed the mention of Drake from that article. Nick Drake was born in Burma but was not ethnically Burmese.  freshacconci  speak to me  18:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Main problems with the article
Teemu08 21:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed a large chunk of POV material from the article's lead, but traces of POV still remain in the main article.
 * Entire sections of the article are unreferenced, namely "Final Years" and "Posthumous Popularity". (fixed)
 * The "Music" section either needs to be expanded or removed, its too short and uninformitive now. * For whatever reason, the first 11 citations don't show up anywhere in the article. Also, some citations are repeated numerous times (such as the Trevor Dann piece). (fixed)
 * Too many one and two sentence paragraphs. (fixed)
 * Needs a thorough copyedit.
 * I'd recommend submitting the article to peer review. (article is far from ready)
 * Hmmm, there seems to me to be some factual errors, (at least acording to the biography I read by Patrick Humphries,isbn:0 7475 303 5) namely:
 * While at Marlborough College and Fitzwilliam, he was not shy, and infact quite extroverted, especially with regard to his athletic prowess.
 * His success with the wind instuments was very limited, and they were more or less forced upon him.
 * Ican't really hear anything in his music what could be called double picking, this could be a misinterpretation of hybrid picking, but in fact he used only flesh and nail, not a pick.
 * Insist it persists 05:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Good points, now corrected Coil00 20:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually the intro to "Cello Song" and bass picking at the beginning of "Chime of the Clock" do use this technique amongst other songs. Drake largely played without a pick relying on his long fingernails to do the work for him. Reinsert? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:52, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I was at Marlborough College with Nick Drake and certainly do not remember that he was in the College Rugby XV let alone its captain. He was a good athlete and played on the wing at rugby but I don't think he progressed to the 1st XV —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cbailward (talk • contribs) 20:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Musical Issues
Before anyone thinks of placing this as a feature article, some really extensive work needs to be done on his music, his choice of tuneings and incredible guitar playing. How can anyone consider an article on Drake fit for F.A. without some considerable input on this subject? A paragraph on his lyrical themes is also badly wanting. Fergananim 12:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It'd be great if some passing guitarist or English lit student could expand out the Music section. His lyrics are described at length here, his guitar technique here. If anyone wants a go at paraphrasing and summarising either, would be appreciated Coil00 21:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Musical Artist Infobox
Why does the infobox list Nick's "Origin" as Tanworth-in-Arden when he was born in Rangoon, Burma? --Rrburke 17:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well spotted, now fixed Coil00 20:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * he received his powers in tanworth —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 20:48, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Rise to popularity
The gap between 1985 and 1999.

It's misleading to illustrate the 1999 BBC documentary as the first major interest in Nick in the 1990's - there was a slow build towards his rediscovery and he was fairly well known in the late 90's, which was probably what prompted the doc. The build in his reputation through the 80's and 90's needs to be fleshed out here, alas I am not the person to do it. I am not a music buff but even I had heard of him before that 1999 documentary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.41.198.86 (talk • contribs) 01:15, 1 Oct 2006 (UTC)

His time at the Université Paul Cézanne Aix-Marseille III
Since this university wasn't founded until 26 July 1973, how did he spend time there during the 60's? --Bob 22:28, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really understanding the difference between the two, and wanting to avoid a dead link, I ref'd the active article 'III'. They seemed to be branches of the same institution. If I'm incorrect, and if you want to flesh this out with a new article, or clarify the link (in some non obstructive way, obviously), that would be great. My sources are vague - Coil00 22:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Difference is that this university simply did not exist under the name of Aix-Marseille III during the 60's so he could not have attended it. The three universities based between Aix-en-Provence and Marseille are not branches of the same university but are distinct entities unto themselves albeit with large amounts of cooperation between them. I will relink to the article about the three. --Bob 14:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Archive FAC
I removed the FAC tag, and moved the first FAC to Featured article candidates/Nick Drake/Archive 1; when you're ready to re-nom, the link will go to Featured article candidates/Nick Drake. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 22:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Once again I'm thanking you ;) + Ceoil 23:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, Ceoil, was on it as well, but my computer hung just as I was going to explain to him what I'd done - you should be all set for when you're ready to resubmit. Best,  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Query
Does anybody know how I might go about tracking down Nick Kent's 1975 NME article? + Ceoil 22:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Found a source. + Ceoil 00:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Spelling
Fixed about 5 or 6 words. andreasegde 13:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Date of death
Please explain how using the date of death template "looks daft" and "devalues" this article, I find that to be an opinion, expressed as though it were a fact. Andy Mabbett 01:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to know why "it looks daft and devalues the article". These templates are being used on many biographical articles throughout Wikipedia. CanbekEsen 01:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Point me towards a template discussion. I'm not a big fan of info boxes in general, much less so ones that state the blindingly obvious and underestimate the capability of readers. Is that enough for your coordinated contribution to this FA article. Further more, explicitly stating the age of death is goulish. Ceoil 01:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Discussion is at Template talk:Death date and age. You're simply restating your personal opinion. We've both asked you to justify it. Allegations of "coordination" breach WP:AGF and are, in any case, false. Andy Mabbett 12:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Your right about WP:AGF, its probably a little fantastic to imagine that ye bothered to coordinate a move of this template to the Nick Drake article, so I'm sorry about that. However, I don't see a lot of discussion on the talk link you provided, nor have I ever seen use of this template before. I really don't want to get dragged into a debate like this, except to say I strongly believe that ye are in a minority openion if you think addition of such a basic facts contribute to the project. This edit added the text "Died aged 26"; and that is, in my openion, low value info. Ceoil 02:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Does anyone else object to the use of the template on this article? Or agree ?Andy Mabbett 05:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * "I strongly believe that ye are in a minority openion" clearly, you are in the minority (2-1. Reverting. Andy Mabbett 21:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What's going on here. You arguments are poor, and I do not see this template on other FA bios. Go bother someone else. Ceoil 22:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Your tone is unacceptable. Also, please see and WP:OWN. Andy Mabbett 22:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Brought it up here. Ceoil 22:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I support the use of the Date of death template FWIW. --Tagishsimon (talk)
 * Ceoil, please observe WP:CIVIL. You've been around long enough to understand the principals of Wikipedia, so I'm sure you understand the concept of consensus. As it appears, you are the only one objecting to the use of this template. Adding information, of whatever value, is never a bad thing. So please, don't get frustrated over it. We have lost too many good editors due to frustration. --Edokter (Talk) 00:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats probably good advice. Consensus is now clearly against me and I respect that. Reading back over this, its just a difference of openion, and I was maybe a little over protective. Also, I don't really want to be featured on Lamest edit wars, and I won't revert again. Ceoil 18:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Julian Lloyd
To the best of my knowledge, the photo at the top of the article was taken in 1970, in north Wales, by Julian Lloyd (Lloyd-Weber?), in a very informal setting. I do not believe it to be a promo photo, as these were only ever taken by some Keith Harris, a photographer for Island Records. All were used in some form for his albums. Fergananim 17:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Linda Thompson
There is a reference to Linda Thompson in the article: "As with Linda Thompson...". This makes it seem like she was already talked about earlier in the article. Can a knowledgeable person add some content about her? 198.107.43.163 23:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, cleared that up.Sillyfolkboy (talk) 22:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Five Leaves Left
Is it mentioned that "Five Leaves Left" is what is written on the sixth to last paper of a packet of rolling papers? It seems to have some significance, considering Drake's cannabis intake. --andreasegde 02:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The sleeve notes for the Vinyl edition of Five Leaves Left say:

Five Leaves Left (which refers to the end of a pack of rolling papers) is a desensitizing psychic seduction.....

Worth adding to the main article?

AndyRiley (talk) 07:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Andy

Image in the infobox
'Magic Mushrooms' are small and dark - don't know what those are but it's potentially dangerous to mis-label them.

The image currently in the infobox, Image:Nick drake way to blue.jpg, is tagged as being the cover of an audio recording. As such, it can only be used to identify that audio recording, which is what it is doing at Way to Blue. On this article, however, it is labeled as being a promotional photo. If that's the case, it needs to be retagged and removed from Way to Blue. But in order for that to happen, adequate source information needs to be found proving that this photograph is really a publicity photo; not every professionally made portrait of a celebrity is! We have to be able to verify that the image was intended for redistribution, as opposed to being intended to appear on an album cover or the like. —Angr 16:04, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, the image was used in some magazine articles on Drake during the mid and late 1980s. It was later used on the cover of the 1994 compliation album Way to Blue. I have clarified in the image caption. Ceoil 14:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If this version of the image is not the album cover, please change the tag on the image description page Image:Nick drake way to blue.jpg to reflect what it is, and remove it from Way to Blue. Better source information is needed too; at the moment it just says "www.amazon.com", which certainly isn't the author and copyright holder of the image. Moreover, I can't even find this exact image at Amazon; I can only find variations on it like, , , and . —Angr 08:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

INSTRUMENTS AND ENGLISH LITERATURE
NICK DRAKE PLAYED GUITAR, PIANO, SWORD, CLARINET, AND HARMONICA (AS A HOBBY).

WHEN DID NICK START TO READ ENGLISH LITERATURE? WHAT AGE? I KNOW HE STARTED AT UNIVERSITY AT 19? BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHEN DID START READING LITERATURE IN SECONADARY SCHOOL YEARS? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.61.25 (talk) 09:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Calm down. He was reading lit from his early teens. Ceoil 17:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

LOL THANKS!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.61.25 (talk) 22:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Overdose Controversy?
I found this interesting page at http://www.michaelorgan.org.au/drake4.htm The Death of Nick Drake Suicide, Accidental Prescription Drug Overdose, or Heroin Casualty? It is well researched and has much information on Tryptizol/Amitriptyline A reassessment based on official accounts, recent medical and pharmacological evidence, and hearssay "Tryptizol is one of many brand names for the antidepressant drug Amitriptyline – the local coroner recorded Nick’s death as resulting from "Amitriptyline poisoning". It is one of a family known as Tricyclic Antidepressants (TCAs). It encourages sleep (a sedative) and alleviates anxiety in depression."

Cuvtixo 17:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Cuvtixo, I've seen that site before, and tbh, I think that might be a fair assestment. Ceoil 17:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

UNIVERSITY
WHEN NICK WENT TO UNIVERSITY, WHAT LITERATURE DID HE STUDY? (E.G ROMANTISIM VICTORIAN) OR WHICH WRITER DID HE CHOOSE TO STUDY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.61.25 (talk) 22:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Mostly William Blake, William Butler Yeats, and Henry Vaughan. Ceoil 03:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Best Rappa Alive
If you read about each of his 3 albums you can see they are all on RS 500 greatist albums so I do not need a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Blizzard King (talk • contribs) 00:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

100 yard dash
It seems a bit disingeuous to record that Drake's "record for the 100 yards dash still stands" at Marlborough, since the race probably hasn't been run there since the advent of metrication 35 years ago. It'd be pretty unique, and notable, if his time over 100 metres hadn't been beaten in the past four decades. 86.144.97.5 09:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually a check reveals this claim dates back to Arthur Lubow's 1978 liner notes for the first Fruit Tree box set. Someone really needs to contact the school to get an update, as it's highly possible there have been changes to the status of the record in the past 30 years. 86.144.97.155 00:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that's what in the source, but interesting fact though. Well spotted. Ceoil 13:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Elton John covers
On You Tube, there are a few recordings of Nick Drake songs by Elton John, the videos stating that he recorded them in 1968, both before the release of Five Leaves Left and somewhat early in Elton John's career. I understand You Tube is not considered a reliable source, but if anyone does have a reliable source or knows anything further about this, I think it would be a nice addition to the article. Here are the recordings on You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0uIrNqJtSk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0GqTeu7t-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPLgaQxa7sQ&feature=related 75.16.235.10 (talk) 02:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)andrewlargemanjones
 * that sort of thing is probably best brushed under the carpet —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petchboo (talk • contribs) 15:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm.... I'm not really sure about that. I mean, it is a big name artist making recordings of Nick Drake songs long before Drake was known by anyone, really. I think that could be relevant, though I'd want to know the details behind these recordings as well before determining whether it should be in the article or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.227.202 (talk) 00:35, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The covers were mentioned in the Patrick Humphreys Drake Biog so there's definite sources there. I think it's quite relevant seeing as Elton John is hardly a nobody. Anyone with the book to hand should find a place for the information and source it.Sillyfolkboy (talk) 18:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Scott Appel
If somebody wants to be constructive, they should go spruce up his page - and maybe also work him into this page somewhere. It remains baffling to me that as the years have gone by, and the interest has continued to grow, that his Nine Of Swords album has remained so overlooked. Because if there's ever some kind of competition for most important "appendix" type recording to the catalog, it is surely that. And if you consider yourself a true fan and have no idea what I'm talking about - you have some serious hunting down to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.138.236.178 (talk) 15:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

bryter layter sold 15, 000 copies: BBC
However, a Jan 14th ,2002 BBC article by Mark Moxon states that "The album only sold 15,000 copies, which was enough to please the record company, but nothing like the success Nick was hoping for". ,

the entire relevant paragraph

Joe Boyd and the album's engineer John Wood thought that Bryter Layter was the 'one perfect album' that they had made. Boyd was convinced it would sell and would make Nick Drake a star, but this proved not to be the case. The album only sold 15,000 copies, which was enough to please the record company, but nothing like the success Nick was hoping for. He was crushed.

Rpopstar (talk) 21:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

hopelessly confused by wikipedia
my confusion. i tried to add some content to the article. it appeared briefly was then deleted. however, when i click on the "edit this article" link my content still appears in the raw form. i don't understand why the two don't match. Rpopstar (talk) 21:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That was me, Rpopstar. What I did was place your text in the foot notes, rather in the article body. Look at note 4 down at the end and you can see your addition there. Reason is that this is just one source that contradicts many many others, so its really not significant to have in the 2nd lead paragraph. By the way, there is a steep learning curve when you start to edit first, so any questions or wonderings you have, just ask me on my talk page. Ceoil  sláinte 21:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Dropping off Pink Moon . ..
Trevor Dann's book on Nick Drake points out that Nick talked with Chris Blackwell when dropping off the quarter-inch stereo mix of Pink Moon at Island Records (it's right on page 170). Just wanted to point that out, as this myth is one of the more egregious ones that's been perpetuated about Nick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.14.169 (talk) 23:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Trevor Dann, as I recall, also seemed to be a bit besotted with needless speculation on Nick's sexuality. So let's take anything that's reported in his book with a bit of salt, shall we? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.210.176.107 (talk) 23:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Give me a break. At the very least, could it also be mentioned that Chris Blackwell himself said Nick spoke with him at the Island offices that day? I know it's likely going to produce a tiny crack in the whole Nick Drake mythology, but there's a pretty reliable source here who said it never went down like that. But hey, don't let me ruin your Tony Wilson-like approach to fact-collecting here: "Between the truth and the legend, print the legend." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.248.68.49 (talk) 14:31, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

suspect tunings claim
under "musical style" it says that Nick tuned his guitar so the "bass" strings were pitched higher than the strings "above" them. there's no compelling reason to think he stringed his guitar unusually (i.e. put a thick string above a thin string); we'd certainly know if he did. it misrepresents what the source (which says they "may well be" as opposed to saying that this type of tuning was somehow intrinsic to his style) says, but even the original claim seems very unikely with a little knowledge and logic. There's no obvious reason to tune that way. attempts to figure out what and how Nick Drake played don't come up with that either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cryleek (talk • contribs) 01:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

He could have been using Nashville tuning for some songs. --FleetfootMike (talk) 10:44, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Live Appearances
Someone added a list of live appearances yet this was unreferenced and incomplete. However, given the dearth of Drake performances, if verified this information could form a "Live performances by Nick Drake" list or similar. Enclosed below are the IP's addition. Reliable references are very welcome. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 05:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Mushroom pic edit contention
As plausible and "common knowledge" as it may be, it would be helpful to provide a reliable source for the "psychedelic mushrooms" claim. —EqualRights (talk) 23:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. If a reliable source is not provided for this information within a couple of weeks, I'll change the caption. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 04:44, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Cluster chords?
I'm not sure, but there seems to be some dissonance in the Wikipedia article and the | referenced page's definition of cluster chords?

Wikipedia's definition: A tone cluster is a musical chord comprising at least three consecutive tones in a scale. Prototypical tone clusters are based on the chromatic scale, and are separated by semitones. For instance, three adjacent piano keys (such as C, C♯, and D) struck simultaneously produce a tone cluster

The referenced article's definition: chords that have more than the standard 3 notes of a major or minor chord and whose notes tend to be clustered very close together (creating minor or major seconds).

The Wikipedia article also says: Prototypical tone clusters are chords of three or more adjacent notes on a chromatic scale, that is, three or more consecutive pitches each separated by only a semitone. Three-note stacks based on diatonic and pentatonic scales are also, strictly speaking, tone clusters. However, these stacks involve intervals between notes greater than the half-tone gaps of the chromatic kind.

So while Nick Drake does often play chords that, "strictly speaking," are cluster chords, I think saying "Drake's style is characterised by his use of cluster chords" is a bit of a stretch.

I would venture to say that even if Drake's use of cluster chords fits the prototypical definition, the article is still misleading. I suspect few would characterize his playing this way - at least this wouldn't be the first thing they would say. Are there any sources for this characterization?

Does anyone more knowledgable about music theory have any thoughts on this? --68.56.17.70 (talk) 06:46, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed, Drake's music is hardly "characterised" by cluster chords. However, the use of them in his guitar work is unusual: these chords are frequently created in symphonic or multi-tracked music. The fact that he uses them playing solo on a guitar is perhaps an important aspect of his work. His use of different guitar tunings is intertwined with cluster chords&mdash;they are impossible if not extremely hard to accomplish on a standard-tuned guitar within the same octave.


 * Thus: the use of different guitar tunings characterises Drake's work, and cluster chords form an unusual part of his work as a solo instrumentalist. You can count the number of standard-tuned Drake songs on one hand. The article should reflect this, cluster chords are merely a knock-on (or intended?) effect of his use of alternate guitar tuning. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 04:41, 14 February 2009

(UTC)
 * Can you make the changes, folkboy. Ceoil (talk) 01:43, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've made the changes here. If anyone thinks it can be expressed more concisely, or clearly, then feel free to rephrase the sentence. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 02:00, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Great, and I think your phrasing is fine. Good to see you on board the article, it could do with a tune up at this stage, there have been no significant additions in about 3 yrs. Ceoil (talk) 02:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Awful introduction picture!
To me, not knowing Nick Drake to well yet, the first picture that shows up with him in the poncho with "what is believed to be mushrooms" sends out waaay other connotations then I think suites him, and I suggest it should be removed. As the picture is what I noticed first, this is what it was telling me about the artist: That he made psychedelic pop or something around that genre, that drugs was an important influence in his music, that he belonged strongly to the hippie movement. If I have understood it correctly (have I?), then none of the above is very fitting. Maybe we could put up a neutral black/white picture of him in a shirt or something like that, and maybe put this picture down to his "earlier years" or something? Also, that the picture is from -67, while it's noted right underneath that he started his active period in -69, also mismatches. Few other artist on Wikipedia has pictures showing them before their active "famous" period, so do anybody know why Nick Drake should be an exemption? If anybody has any arguments for keeping it, please post them. If I don't see any discussion on this for some time, and if nobody does it before me, then I'll change the picture. Andy McDandy (talk) 12:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well to be fair, he really did like drugs. Ceoil (talk) 20:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Moving Pictures
Do in fact exist of Nick Drake, albeit of him as a child on a beach. They can be seen in A Skin Too Few.

there are no moving pictures of drake a an adult! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.61.25 (talk • contribs) 11:40, 09 Sep 2007 (UTC)

List of Known Live Appearances
1968
 * Feb 23 - London, Roundhouse [also: Country Joe & The Fish, Fairport Convention, Blossom Toes, T-Rex]

1969
 * early - Cambridge, Pitt Club (with orchestra)
 * ?? - Hull, folk club at The Haworth
 * Jun 10 - Oxford Caius May Ball (with orchestra)
 * Sep 24 - London, Royal Festival Hall [supporting Fairport Convention, John and Beverley Martyn]
 * ?? - Smethwick, near Birmingham, social club
 * Oct 04 - Middlesex, The Upper Room Folk Club at the Goodwill To All pub [support: Folkomnibus]
 * Oct 10 - Croydon, Fairfield Halls [supporting Fairport Convention, also Bridget St.John]
 * Nov 15 - London, Les Cousins (first appearance) [supporting John James]

1970 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sillyfolkboy (talk • contribs) 06:38, 18 Dec 2008 (UTC)
 * Jan 24 - Ewell Technical College [supporting Genesis, Atomic Rooster]
 * Feb 14 - Leicester Polytechnic [supporting Genesis]
 * early - Liverpool Philharmonic Hall [supporting Fairport Convention]
 * Feb 21 - London, Queen Elizabeth Hall [supporting John and Beverley Martyn]
 * early - London, Les Cousins (regular Saturday night spot) [supporting the Third Ear Band, John Martyn and others]
 * Mar 16 - Birmingham Town Hall [also: Fotheringay]
 * Mar 18 - Leicester De Montfort Hall [also: Fotheringay]
 * Mar 20 - Manchester Free Trade Hall [also: Fotheringay]
 * Mar 22 - Bristol Colston Hall [also: Fotheringay]
 * Mar 30 - London Royal Festival Hall [also: Fotheringay]
 * May 08 - Bedford College (all-nighter) [also: Spencer Davis, John Martyn, Graham Bond]
 * ?? - Yorkshire - open air concert [supporting Free]
 * Jun 25 - Ewell Technical College [supporting Ralph McTell]

Film of Nick Drake
There is in fact some footage of Nick as a small child this, footage is included in the documentary A Skin Too Few. I will be rewriting the text underneath the intro photo and changing the footnote to include this documentary instead of the much older article. Thanks Steve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trepmtl (talk • contribs) 19:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Robert Kirby
In the 'early life' section - he went up to Cambridge in Oct 1967 but later in the para it tells of him meeting Robert Kirby in Sept 1967, so did he meet Kirby in London? And if so, should this be moved to earlier in the paragraph to the bit where it mentions him staying with Gabrielle in London that so it fits chronologiically? 86.133.208.142 (talk) 14:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Images of Drake
Apart from the single lead image, could someone please explain why any of the non-free images in the article are necessary? Do we really need so many photos of the subject? We know what he looks like from the lead one. J Milburn (talk) 10:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Additionally, it looks like there is a free use image available on Flickr. I don't know if the photo was uploaded legitimately or not but it is currently tagged with the CC 2.0 general attribution license. Surely this invalidates many of the FURs for the photos on this article. ~ Paul T +/C 15:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Its highly unlikely that there are any free images of Drake out there. He died in obscurity, at 26, in 1974. All existing photos of the handsome devil are widely reproduced, and I'd imagine highly valuable to the copyright owners. I've trimed per J Milburn; 3 left now. Ceoil (talk) 18:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I taking this page off my watchlist; I see ye descend in packs. Have fun guys. Brilliant stuff. Ceoil (talk) 07:26, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still not really seeing why those two extra ones are needed... What do they show that the lead image does not? J Milburn (talk) 15:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Please remove link to unoffical website
Please remove the external link to nickdrake.com as per WP:ELNO. It says on its homepage that it isn't an official page. Alexius08 (talk) 01:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done — {&#123; Nihiltres &#124;talk&#124;edits}&#125; 02:12, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Virtuoso?
Beautiful article, one of my favorites; wouldn't dream of editing it. However...I don't necessarily believe that Nick would be considered a "virtuoso" guitarist by virtue of either his playing style or his playing in general. A gifted, incredibly talented, sophisticated songwriter indeed; but not a "virtuoso" in the purest sense. I have been a guitarist for many years and very much admire his work; Drake's playing is not exceptional either in usage or technique.


 * I'd venture most guitarists fond of alternate tunings and familiar with his work would disagree with you. His work in alternate tunings, combined with that unparalleled fingerpicking technique (not to mention how his guitarwork on the albums was nearly devoid of 'flubbings') is still a testament to his abilities, decades later.  It wasn't just how well he played - it was *precise*.  Listen to the enunciation in 'Road'.  Listen to the almost-piano-sounding waterfall of group-picking in 'Hanging on a Star'.  The closest English singer-songwriter I can think of who's come close to writing with such fluidity in alt. tunings is Mark Kozelek, and it still isn't the same.  Any bloke with enough time can go to Iguana and pick up the tabs, and learn to play a song of his (Drake's) without too much trouble.  But to play it with the note-by-note attention to detail (instead of flailing fingerpicking) the way Drake did - it requires a helluva lot of concentration, no matter how many years you've been playing.

To *write* songs like these to begin with - not just play them - yeah. He was definitely a cut above the rest. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.239.5.242 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 12 February 2006.
 * Yes, but what the original poster was saying is that while Drake was a very gifted and sophisticated musician, he probably wouldn't be considered "virtuoso" "in the purest sense." I'd say I agree with that statement. One can be technically gifted and brilliant musically without being considered virtuoso. Likewise, someone could be a virtuoso and not necessarily be one of the greatest musicians ever. A virtuoso guitarist would be someone who could play virtually anything. Drake didn't demonstrate this type of virtuosity in his career, though he certainly achieved excellence in guitar composition.

It's an unknown because he appears to have exclusively practiced original compositions, or at least never auditioned for any orchestral post as a soloist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cloudtalkman (talk • contribs) 14:05, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Archiving
Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 30 days and keep ten threads.--Oneiros (talk) 15:40, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅--Oneiros (talk) 14:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Small changes
Made to correct the impression (based on a late book) that Drake was unknown and that this was due to bad record company management. Note the Michael Chapman quote on the page;

"I don't know what the audience expected, I mean, they must have known they weren't going to get sea–shanties and sing-alongs at a Nick Drake gig!"

He is saying; everybody knew what Nick Drake did. They did. Unfortunately what he did could not get across in clubs and he did not tour. That was partly due to his temperament also. His initial album sales may have been weak, but the albums stayed undeleted - it might be worth comparing initial sales like with like - say, Tim Buckley's "Lorca", Roy Harper's "Folkjokeopus", Chapman's "Rainmaker", even "Astral Weeks" were slow sellers that slowly gathered a reputation despite mixed reviews. It's odd, therefore, to accuse Island of refusing to issue a compilation! And he most certainly was played by other DJs than Peel (I think David Symonds too) and interviewed by other pop magazines (Disc or, if not, Record Mirror). I doubt he liked doing that either though. The article is correct, I think, to say that Drake has been repackaged as a myth: please ensure that wiki does not go in-universe on this, any more than the opposite view that he was a spoiled brat. He produced a few pieces of rare sublimity, he knew it, everybody with ears knew it - but how to sell it? The myth may have fixed that, but it does not make it true.

"Island Records was keen that Drake promote Bryter Layter through press interviews, radio sessions and live appearances. Drake, who was by this time smoking what Kirby has described as "unbelievable amounts" of marijuana[53] and exhibiting "the first signs of psychosis", refused."

If he'd had a concert tour with band and string quartet... people wanted to hear him play but he refused. What can you do? It's sad he never got to meet the tens of thousands of people who admired "Time Has Told Me", "River Man" and "Day is Done", wanted to hear it and instead, after a year's silence, had to read the obituaries that this page claims never happened! Redheylin (talk) 05:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Updated cultural references
Here are some recent appearances of Nick Drake's work I've seen not mentioned in the article.
 * AT&T commercial featuring "From the Morning"
 * Cover of "Cello Song" by The Books in The Blind Side
 * The Five Leaves Left album cover at the end of Pirate Radio/The Boat That Rocked when several album covers are shown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.71.121.164 (talk) 13:56, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * None of them can or should be added without sources and a claim to their notability. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 15:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Dann source
Shouldn't the Dann source have a full cite, at least the first time? MDuchek (talk) 19:30, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Mr Drake
I love him very much, but I regrettably I have nothing to add to his page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Notuxorious (talk • contribs) 11:23, 23 March 2006.

source regarding depression
The quotes under the "depression" heading describe Drake's reaction to his low popularity as a cause of his depression. A friend is also quoted as describing his behavior regarding the administration of his anti-depressants while visiting her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DUtch (talk • contribs) 00:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Death
I read in one of the compilation CDs released after his death that it was ruled an accidental overdose of antidepressents, not a suicide. Can someone verify? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.166.38.15 (talk) 17:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pointless Statement
The note under the photograph of Nick Drake reads: "Nick Drake, c. 1969. No footage of the adult Drake exists; he was only ever captured in still photographs and in home footage from his childhood." Not only is this a rather cumbersome and badly constructed sentence, but it is also too insignificant a statement to make. An unsubstantiated and untenable statement, too. "No footage of the adult Drake exists" is a particularly arrogant assertion, as all it takes is someone to come out of their attic with a bunch of 16mm film footage of Drake and this article would all of a sudden be misinformation. How about "There is no known footage of the adult Drake"? Or "There is no known footage of Drake as an adult"? At least this would not be an actual lie. 82.35.238.71 (talk) 12:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Fictionalization by Christopher Richard Barker
I have asked Top Jim to look into and verify the claim that author Christopher Richard Barker has fictionalized the life and death of Nick Drake in the novella The Melancholy Haunting Of Nicholas Parkes. However, I can assure you that the story does exist and has been published. Indeed, Drake's former manager Joe Boyd was consulted about the tale and emails between him and the author were exchanged. Joe Boyd even possesses a copy of the book Tenebrous Tales in which it appears. (Curemaniac (talk) 18:17, 14 October 2010 (UTC))
 * Existence is not the question. The issue is notability.  Please provide a source that proves its notability. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  18:47, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Genre
Can't understand why he has been sorted as "FOLK" music??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.111.54.211 (talk) 15:12, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Date of the Roundhouse show where Ashley Hutchings first saw Nick
Please consult this page :

http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Country%20Joe%20Shows.htm

In order to solve the contradiction about the date of the London Roundhouse concert where Nick performed and Ashley Hutchings attended.

It *can't* both be the "Festival for Peace" (20/21 December 1967 - see above link), and *in February 1968* (this would be the 23 February performance mentioned in the chronology linked above - which *does* mention Nick Drake participating).77.198.18.188 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:49, 27 February 2011 (UTC).

This is an awesome article
I have been reading Wiki for years, was a editor a long while back. This is the best written and most engaging article I think I've ever encountered here. Very respectful, no fan "fluff" or whatnot. What a thorough and respectful article for an amazing artist. Bravo you dedicated editors, seriously, this is a gem. Cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.183.68.48 (talk) 02:31, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I completely agree. I am a great admirer of Drake's, and think this article definitely captures him. Thank you, whoever created this beautiful article. This just shows how great Wikipedia is, and how much it can improve as other articles reach this caliber. Nstanton0505 (talk) 21:25, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Possible Correction?
The Volkswagen commercial was for the Cabrio, a different version/model convertible than the Cabriolet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.100.18.4 (talk) 23:37, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * It was for the Cabrio, as you state. I have made the correction. MrMarmite (talk) 11:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Anyone know the correct year? The opening blurb says 2000 but later on in the article it says 1999. BillyH 13:04, 19 January 2012 (UTC)