Talk:Nicolás Maduro/Archive 1

Relevance
What is the relevance of the following in the article. Looks to me like POV pushing, as a minister he has said many things and many people have said a lot about him but just have this particular part gives the indication that we in Wikipedia can't have a balanced perspective about a current politician.


 * In January 2009, Israel ordered the Venezuelan ambassador and his staff to leave the country after Venezuela expelled Israeli diplomats over Israel's military offensive in the Gaza Strip. In an interview with Al-Jazeera, Maduro stated, with regard to Israel's expelling of the Venezuelan ambassador, that "The response of the State of Israel is weak, late and in any case for us it's an honor. We're proud that the State of Israel that exists today, led by these criminals, made this decision."


 * On September 2006, he was detained in the USA by US Homeland Security officers at JFK Airport, after paying for three air tickets in cash.

Kanatonian (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It's unfortunate to remove information from an important article that is already quite short.


 * I can see your point. When he made the comment about Israel, he was simply being the spokesman for Venezuelan government policy. So that paragraph should be in an article explaining Venezuela's international relations, not in this article.  And the detention says more about US Homeland Security and Venezuela-US relations than it says about Maduro.


 * I wouldn't have removed the text from the article, but I also won't revert the change. Gronky (talk) 21:09, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

However, this nomination is in violation of the Venezuelan constitution. Additionally this English page neglected to update his expulsion of US delegates and claims of the US 'planting' cancer within Chavez. I sincerely hope the resident editors here do not allow the repeated link backs to Venezuelaanalysis.com... as that is yellow journalism at its finest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 15:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

nation
metizo? american indian?--Kaiyr (talk) 13:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

He is, like 99% of Venezuelans, mixed race. He is probably more European than anything else, though: 92% of Venezuelans have a European male haplogroup. 50% of Venezuelans have a native American female haplogroup and the rest is European or African American. That shows just two branches of anyone's ancestry but that tells you something. His nationality is simply "Venezuelan". --Periergeia (talk) 23:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a socialist, communist, capitalist hidden agenda?
You continue to promote ballgame ´slap the butt of the players´ & ´squeeze their balls´ because that feels nice (to you, most likely). This isn´t that type of USA ballgame. Maduro is a political player, but one with insufficient public support to ever be elected on a popular ballot larger than municipal/city. The base of the psuv is in relation to NON-city arenas and in that area, to be quite frank, he sucks, his support, coming primarily from a caracas baseline.

Most of what is placed in wiki, concerning biographies, has two tints: social innuendo, and social innuendo, as if you where all afraid to look at your cards because the tell in your face would immediately be visible.

Write about the reality, not your fantasy, except if you are not so real yourselfs, where that would be unavoidable.

Maduro was checked at the counter, because he payed in cash, and pretty much everyone and the kitchen sink, do that in credit. Doesn´t he have a credit card? Yes, he does, several of them, and all governmental issue, therefore there was/is no issue, and therefore that could very well have been a socialist putz, where he wanted to be questioned in order to obtain some fuel to be used for his partying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.79.47.55 (talk) 16:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Violation of Venezuelan Constitution
By assuming power over the president of the national assembly, Maduro violated article 229, 231, and 233 of the Venezuelan constitution. Given virtually half of Venezuela does not accept him as their president, perhaps this should be a larger part of the discussion. As a follow up, his claims that the CIA 'inoculated' Chavez with cancer seems utterly missing from this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk • contribs) 9 March 2013


 * The Guardian article doesn't say that "virtually half of Venezuela does not accept him as their president." If you're going to keep lying about what the source says, no one will take you seriously. Ratemonth (talk) 23:43, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, Wikipedia does not judge whether or not he violated the constitution. We do not give our opinions. We get information from reliable sources. All we can say based on the Guardian article is that opposition figures say he violated it. Anything beyond that is original research (making stuff up) and vandalism that must be reverted. Ratemonth (talk) 23:44, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I respect your guidance on this. Isn't it a fatal flaw however that given 44% of the electorate (and the entire political machine behind it) boycotted the election? Or would you have me include more links regarding this. I can, but I would hope to avoid more name calling or humiliation. The link to the 44% and thus their political body in entirety is here, Google "Maduro Boycott" - or simply look inside my original article! The opposition party is literally boycotting his inauguration which held virtually half of all voting Venezuelans. I think you could really just alter my syntax to something more, politically palpable? or simply euphemism. You are misinterpreting a lacking on my side of specific encyclopedic or euphemistic rhetoric, for me being a liar, which is depressing. If you don't like 'virtually half of Venezuela' then write up 'Many Venezuelan voters do not' or 'A large percent of Venezuelans do not"

I find it sad that you don't focus moreso (the community as a whole) on yellow journalism and blogs. I can't tell you how I wish you would exact your razor like reviews upon Chavez's page which holds 10 link backs to 'venezuelanalysis.com' arguably the most yellow journalism that Venezuela has seen outside of its state media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 04:54, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Religion
Is there any reference in Spanish that his religion is Roman Catholic? I could not find it in English and I do not speak Spanish. See also Talk:Sathya_Sai_Baba. The Sathya Sai Baba movement sees itself as interfaith and adherents usually see no contradiction between being Roman Catholic and being and adherent of the Sathya Sai Baba movement at the same time. Andries (talk) 06:45, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Please either give a balanced desciption of a controversial aspect of the Sathya Sai Baba movement article or do not write anything.
 * A balanced description i.e. summary of this aspect at Sathya Sai Baba movement would be "the Sathya Sai Baba movement teaches the unity of faith, but is classified in scholarly sources as a Hindu movement". Andries (talk) 20:00, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * in this source is a recent speech in which "Maduro", declared itself Christian. "'I'm Christian and I have no doubt that the commander Chavez is now beside the liberator'" in several speeches talking about Christianity:

"'only a new formula, Christian, socialist, will end with the crime''"

Acting President
Maduro is the current Acting President of Venezuela and Vice President of Venezuela. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.136.221.199 (talk) 23:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Not de jure, due to a technicality. Had Chávez been sworn into his new term, Maduro would be Acting President, but since he was too ill to do so, the Constitution gives the technically lapsed presidency to the President of the National Assembly, Diosdado Cabello. I was confused for a while, too. De facto is a less clear picture right now. Dralwik|Have a Chat 01:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The constitution might give this to Cabello, but sources are reporting that Maduro is acting. I've left a note at the Help Desk to try to figure out the best way to discuss this for all four affected articles simultaneously.  (Your reformat essentially makes the first portion of my comment moot) Ryan Vesey 01:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I'm maintaining the List of heads of state by diplomatic precedence, so I've put Maduro in since he's de facto president. Dralwik|Have a Chat 17:23, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, Maduro is Interim President. An Acting President is an official who serves during the President's incapacity, whereas an Interim President (such as Maduro) serves during a Presidential vacancy. GoodDay (talk) 13:10, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with GoodDay that while technically he should be Interim President, a significant amount of the woulds press are calling him acting president.  LGA talk  edits   08:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Odd photograph?
I'm one of those people who notices when controversial figures accidentally end up with unflattering photographs. A photographer takes a batch of photos, and generally throws out the ones where the subject contorts their face oddly. When the figure is controversial, the photographer may choose to be less discerning. I make no assumption, but I do find the choice of photo to be strange. Perhaps a better one is in order, particularly since the photo for his opponent in the upcoming elections is much more polished? 173.179.169.167 (talk) 15:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

You have removed all criticism portions from Maduro's page, in a torrent of 14 edits, I suggest immediate mediation if you intend to keep your account on wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

User:173.179.169.167, you are correct in noticing "the choice of photo to be strange." I've placed a more appropriate photograph where he is smiling. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 11:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * See Images: "Images of living persons should not be used out of context to present a person in a false."  A common sense reading ot neutrality would support this principle.  TFD (talk) 14:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Embalming
I've removed the material regarding this from the controversies section. See article: (Venezuela govt: Chavez will not be embalmed) Somedifferentstuff (talk) 09:06, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * (Response to this edit 'announcement)
 * A. That is not a discussion and B. This is a major controversy backed up by several citations. It appears you have learned very little from our :administrative review.


 * Apparently you are confusing the talk page with an edit summary. I suggest you revisit the wikipedia GUI.


 * Oh, and unless you think the other editors here are brain dead, you made numerous other edits, most of which reeked of POV.


 * If you think that some random quote on makes it legitimate encyclopedic that he has some how 'turned over a new leaf' you must have missed the :2012 election.
 * You have a quote, I have multiple full length articles, video, and a minimum of 20 quotes that say he is used gay slurs as a longer trend of :prejudice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk • contribs) 17 March 2013

POV Violation
You just removed the sourced changes made to the article by User:Scientiom. His changes can be seen in this diff. I support his addition of sourced material. By removing that material you are violating the neutrality of an article which is considered a BLP. I've placed another warning on your talk page for edit warring. You also didn't format your response here correctly nor did you sign it. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 16:21, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter if the other user didn't post on talk. He made changes to the article. I support his changes which means that you are violating consensus by removing the material. I know you have around 100 edits on Wikipedia but that is no excuse for your belligerence. And don't throw around the term sock puppet, it's disruptive to the project. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 16:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * (UPDATE) User:98.252.50.93 has been blocked for 1 week as can be seen here. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 18:20, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Lies
There are several lies here. is understandable because many anti-government who speak English, they lie more easily.1. The Supreme Court of Venezuela stated that the president did not violate the constitution in any case. based on their powers of Article 335 and 336 on the interpretation of the Constitution. (see the judgments of January 9 2013 and March 8 2013 and Articles 335 and 336 of the Bolivarian Constitution who are here in English http://www.analitica.com/bitblioteca/venezuela/constitucion_ingles.pdf) http://www.tsj.gov.ve/informacion/notasdeprensa/notasdeprensa.asp?codigo=10001 2. Nicolas Maduro is Catholic, http://www.notitarde.com/Pais/Nicolas-Maduro-y-Jaua-llegan-a-Cuba-con-estatuas-religiosas-para-Chávez---/2013/02/06/164445 has made numerous references to Christ and refers to the pope as "His Holiness",http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/157114/la-carta-que-envio-maduro-a-francisco-celebro-que-sea-el-primer-papa-latinoamericano/ the gift will also religious images of the Virgin Mary, Chavez during his stay in Cuba. There is a campaign against him, including lies about his religion.3. Nicolas Maduro never offended gays. Nicolas Maduro attacked his opponent with strong words.http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/102664/canciller-nicolas-maduro-se-disculpa-por-adjetivo-homofobico-dirigido-a-capriles-radonski/ He apologized if anyone in the gay community was offended. --186.89.18.220 (talk) 15:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC) Response to (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 00:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC) 98.252.50.93 (talk) 00:40, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Your argument is against allegations of criticism, which are sourced by many news agencies, and thus you cannot refute a well founded allegation. Kudos on the attempt though.
 * Your argument that Maduro never offended gays, well here is the video to prove you are incorrect
 * If you intend to call English speakers liars, then take your editorial rants to the Spanish page.

Maduro Criticisms and Homophobic Allegations Update
The entire world recognizes the currency devaluation, I will include this additional citation from business week to appease this ... outlandish comment.
 * Maduro claimed the CIA was planning to kill Capriles
 * Capriles said that if anything happens to him, that it was Maduro's doing.
 * Maduro shut down an airport that Capriles was attempting to land in on March 16th.
 * Maduro indicates that he intends to shut down all "Comida Rapida" or fast food restaurants, while being interviewed on VTV March 24th. (This source is largely made up of people tweeting)
 * Maduro stated "I do have a wife, you know? I do like women!" Maduro told a rally. He has also called Capriles "a little princess." (sic)
 * Why title a section Gay Rights, when the articles related are of to videos and quoted Homophobic remarks I am requesting a revision to "Homophobic Remarks"
 * A currency devaluation occurred during holy week, lowering purchasing power of the Venezuelan bolívar
 * Norkys Batista, an artist who supports Henrique Capriles, was banned from performing due to her political beliefs against the state. While 500 tickets had been issued, the hotel stated it was due to her support of Henrique Capriles, the candidate running against Maduro.


 * A photo was leaked on March 25th via Facebook, from the director of the ministry of health, advising government workers to give a days salary towards Nicolas Maduro's reelection campaign. The letter further states that after paying at select banks, to take the payment receipt to a designated coordinator as proof of payment. The letters went out to all governmental employees.(Translated)(Facebook is not a reliable source)
 * During Maduro's first 100 days in office, over 4,200 people have been murdered in Caracas, the capitol of Venezuela. February 2013 was the most violent month in four years in Caracas.

'''If anyone has input on how you would like these worked in, please write below. If the intention is to negate them, or use syntax turn into euphemistic statements, please reassess - Thanks '''

I have never heard that newspaper blogs were not sufficient for cited content. The content is allowed via For Facebook/Flickr/Picassa/GooglePhotos the content I cited is not 'produced' by an individual, it is the host of a photo. If another editor could provide consensus that would be great. abstergo abstergo accendo (talk) 03:21, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Request to have photo of Governmental letter uploaded


I'm requesting a super user to upload this photo for the controversy section of the page. It's a request for money and verification of payment from the Venezuelan government to all government employees. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk • contribs) 26 March 2013
 * Facebook is not a reliable source. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 07:49, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

For Facebook/Flickr/Picassa/GooglePhotos the content I cited is not 'produced' by an individual, it is the host of a photo. If another editor could provide consensus that would be great. 03:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC) Currently the URL of 'Facebook' is merely a host to media, i.e. YouTube is a host to video. Given that YouTube is also used as a citation here as are many photo sharing cites, I think you're mistaken in this regard. Thanks abstergo abstergo accendo (talk) 03:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

There is no proof at all this photograph is true. Furthermore, to be a controversy, it should have at least official declarations by both the government and the opposition; but it hasn't provoked a controversy on a national level. So, it's probably a fake. --Yeah 93 (talk) 22:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC) -Do you really mean that if the government doesn't acknowledge it, that it never happened? Could you cite me something to cite either that a controversy has to be nation wide, or cite that this didn't go nation wide? I seem to see 7,000 shares on that post alone, just saying. 98.252.50.93 (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Someone has been vandalizing this. What's going on?
The following is something a Maduro fan keeps deleting. This is no assertion from a blog or the like. We are talking about a real accussation from an elected deputy about Maduro.

"There have been criticisms among the opposition for what they consider nepotism from Maduro's wife, Cilia Flores. More than 16 relatives of hers were employed by the National Assembly when she became deputy. "

--Periergeia (talk) 12:17, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The way it's written seems like it's biased. Write it in a more concise and neutral way. --Yeah 93 (talk) 15:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

--I don't believe this sentence is biased at all. The title of 'Nepotism and Corruption' should probably have had the standard, euphemism of 'Hiring Policies' or etc.

---'''I support Periergeia's corruption additions and I am against the aggressive redaction of all the prior controversy portions, these newspapers are the best in Venezuela. --- 98.252.50.93 (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

What you consider biased or not is in itself absolutely biased. What counts here is that the accussations were official, they were carried out by an elected deputy of the National Assembly and those accussations were published in three different national newspapers. I did not say they were true, I reported them as should be done in Wikipedia. I don't know why you want to keep the article of Maduro devoid of any critical aspect. --Periergeia (talk) 19:21, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

In either case, the restrictions of criticism here need to stop, the news media around the world is having a field day with Maduro because of all the outlandish things he or his regime is doing, stories which are negative, if you can find well sourced positive ones, then post them to talk for review. What is currently happening is that Dr.K and bbb23 are boxing out other editors, even when they post their comments in talk. In fact I have not seen Dr.K participate in talk unless it is to truncate literally half the talk page. The reality is that they are very well established editors, and they are throwing their weight around in a very ugly manner.98.252.50.93 (talk) 23:36, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Request user's bbb23 and Dr.K extricate themselves from this article
I would request that BBB23 and Dr.K take a break from this article, as it's becoming quite apparent that your undos seem to occur only when negative information is being submitted, even when well cited. One can note this given the recent change of photo to a rare one, and photoshopped, of Maduro smiling. This change was not undone, even though it was not discussed in talk, and does not accurately represent the BLP. 98.252.50.93 (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * User:98.252.50.93 was blocked for 2 weeks. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 13:09, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Very good Atlantic Piece on Maduro and Venezuela - Recommended to be Used in Piece
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/venezuelas-upcoming-election-wont-be-any-fairer-than-its-recent-ones/274881/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:109:0:6048:B1ED:F3C3:5638:4B2 (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

This article is very biased and could use an unbiased re-write from the ground up.
I am not Venezuelan, I came here to learn about the guy out of curiousity from a BBC article. I found a paragraph basically directly insulting the guy with a bunch of ridiculous attacks, which I removed. The page needs a lot more additional work as most, if not all of it, is very negative and is clearly biased against him. These articles are not supposed to be biased, not even Hitler's page reads as badly as this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.186.223.233 (talk) 06:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

April 19, 2013
Maduro is still interim President, until his presidential inauguration on April 19, 2013. GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 April 2013
As an election has taken place and he has been elected to serve until 2018, he isn't interim any more.--94.65.164.180 (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Other comment on this talk page indicates that there is no consensus for the requested edit at this time. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 14:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Early driver?
If Maduro was born 23 Nov 1962, how come he was "working as a bus driver by becoming an unofficial trade-unionist, representing the workers of the Caracas Metro system in the 1970s etc". Seems a bit early to be a bus driver, at age 17 yrs 1 month (when the 1970s ended),or was that unofficial too? Hmm 31.185.250.1 (talk) 03:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

comment: Back in the 60s and 70s people drove legally at a younger age in countries outside the U.S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.79.133 (talk) 16:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Objections to election results
John Kerry also called for a recount... and hinted that the U.S. might not recognize Mr. Maduro as the rightful leader. Mr. Maduro’s response was blunt: “We don’t care about your recognition,” he said, as UPI reported. “We have decided to be free and we will be free and independent, with or without you.” (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/18/venezuelan-president-elect-nicolas-maduro-tells-jo/#ixzz2QvWVT0Wt)

No recount was conducted. Venzuela's voting system is known to be the best in the world. http://elections.smartmatic.com/carter-the-electoral-system-in-venezuela-is-the-best-in-the-world

Well, that was according to Carter, which has been highly question. No wonder the link you provide is located in the site of Smartmatic company. Smartmatic has been in trouble in a lot of countries, including Belgium. --Periergeia (talk) 20:54, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

173.228.79.133 (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: That Maduro's election was controversial is already mentioned in the article, and expanded discussion on controversies surrounding Maduro's election would be more appropriate in the article about the election, not Maduro's own article. BryanG (talk) 06:34, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Maduro's assassination plot and Uribe
Someone removed my addition of BBC material about Maduro claiming the former president of Colombia, Uribe, is not worth mentioning. That is incredible. This is not a trivial thing at all. This is a serious accusation of a public figure - a head of state - against another internationally well-known politician. Uribe will now go legally against Maduro and this person consider this trivial, deletes it without even putting this to discussion?

What do we have here that this page has a censorship protecting Maduro from any statement that might put him in a critical light? If this goes on, the conflict in this page will go beyond Wikipedia and into the media: what standards are used to protect this page of Nicolás Maduro when those standards are not used for other people. --Periergeia (talk) 20:06, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Arrr the "censorship" card, always a winner (not). I happen to agree with Bbb23's removal, this is an encyclopedia and not a log of every news story about the guy. For more information have a read of WP:NOT.  LGA talk  edits   21:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Periergeia, did you actually read the BBC source? For example, this sentence: "He has alleged conspiracies against him since taking over from the late President Hugo Chavez and winning disputed elections last month." We are not here to provide Maduro with a platform to list all of his allegations against his enemies. Even if you added the denial by Uribe, which you did not bother to do, to make it more even-handed, it still would be just another accusation and another denial. Your censorship diatribe is fatuous at best. Wikipedia is not here to protect Maduro or to protect Uribe except to the extent mandated by WP:BLP. We are an encyclopedia, and this has almost zero encyclopedic value.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:04, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Maduro claims a Magical Parakeet Turned into Chavez, and Blessed him (Video)
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/agencia-efe/130403/opposition-leader-calls-mental-exam-maduro-after-bird-comments

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/nicolas-maduro-hugo-chavez-little-bird_n_3007965.html

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/maduro-chavez-bird-presidential/2013/04/02/id/497504

http://nbclatino.com/2013/04/03/acting-president-maduro-says-hugo-chavez-appeared-to-him-as-a-little-bird/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kkrSkCvL8i0

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk • contribs) 4 April 2013
 * I think this statement should be added. (I personally think it is related to his adherence to the Sathya Sai Baba movement. The anthropologist Lawrence Babb wrote in a 1983 article that "the miraculous are absolutely central to this religious movement" and that the plausibility of these miracles "seems to pull people into convictions ostensibly at odds with what their own subculture deems to be common sense and considered judgment".)
 * Andries (talk) 09:35, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Marriage
Maduro is not "legally" married, please fix this; he is not even engaged. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.249.10.88 (talk) 19:10, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources such as CNN say they are.- gadfium 01:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Nicolás Maduro's background: the real (updated) story
More detail should be added to the profile regarding his family and personal background, as it appears in the articles of other world leaders. Part of the issue so far, has been the lack of sources, but now that Nicolás Maduro is president, more details have been coming out. Below is a transcript of things he himself has recently stated regarding his family. Other sources regarding his upbringing, and education, and temporary residency abroad have also been posted. We should see a way of integrating some of these details into the article.

Having said that, it should be noted, that now that more and more is coming out to light about his background, it appears that Nicolás Maduro does NOT come from a family that was in any real sense "poor", or "underprivileged"; as his upbringing and political orientation today would suggest. Rather, although his family was indeed "humble", this "humility" was social, not economic. It was "humility" by choice, driven by the family's leftist socially conscientious political ideology, that they chose to forgo extreme material wealth. This can be seen in Nicolas Maduro's derision of the family pedegree and heritage of privilege of the Maduros that he himself belongs. He always distances himself from their influence, (as seen in his inauguration speech) even though he is a member of that very clan. He sees them as a part of the "rancid oligarchy" that he alleges is a part of the problems of Venezuela.

Nicolas Maduro's father was actually a graduate of an elite college when he went to study in Colombia in the mid 1900's. Meanwhile, Nicolas' grandfather was a Jewish immigrant from Curaçao, where the Sephardic Jews who arrived via The Netherlands (but originally from Portugal) were prosperous. The largest bank of Curaçao even bears the Maduro family surname. While not all branches stem from that banking branch, if you go a little further back, the banking branch and the other Maduro branches of the family meet up as the same extended family. Because of this, he is distantly related to Ricardo Maduro, the first Jewish president of Honduras, born in Panama, who is of the stock of Sephardi Jews immigrated from Curaçao (via The Netherlands, and originally from Portugal), the Maduros. Nicolas Maduro's grandfather settled in Falcón, which was a sort of Venezuelan "Ellis Island" and "New York City", since through there, most of the Sephardic Jews entered, and also originally settled. Most Venezuelan Jews, and also the Venezuelan assimilated Catholic-professing Jewish descendants, trace their origins to this region in Venezuela, including Nicolas Maduros' presidential elections rival, the also assimilated Catholic-professing Jewish descendant Henrique Capriles Radonski, who is part Sephardi (from Curaçao), part Ashkenazi (from Russia and Poland), and part Hispanic Venezuelan gentile Catholic.

Nicolas' grandfather converted to Catholicism at the age of 14. Nicolas Maduro did not grow up underprivileged, although he was sent to school in a underprivileged area and they chose to settle in El Valle. He became a bus driver, not out of necessity because he was in any way "unskilled", and those "unskilled" jobs (bus driving included) were the only types of jobs he could get. Rather, he became a bus driver as a way to join the labor union, to climb through its ranks. In his younger years, he temporarily lived in Cuba to attended socialist educational institutions there, where he further formed his political ways. His life story is not the story of a struggling Venezuelan overcoming economic adversity and life's challenges, to get to where he is today. This is only now becoming clear. From the very beginning, it seems that his entire life was deliberately set out in a direction with a specific goal in place. And here he is today, the president of Venezuela.

Sources to be used:

Al-Andalus (talk) 08:42, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueYYqZeQe4
Doesn´t relate to his statements with regards to the situation between israel & lebanon, where he fustigated israel.

Most of these videos point to him having severe personal schysms in relation to his own past, which makes all off that patheticly fascist cristian vietcongish, attempts at public mea culpa about his own past. Any videos in reference to the asian phenomenon, chineese, where the ´big push forward´ was primarily a public exposure of ones alleged sins, pulled out through public exposure in re-education camps? Very similar this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.79.47.80 (talk) 10:08, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 October 2013
in light of recent events regarding Maduro's true nationality, is explicit request a modification in Mr. Maduro's place of birth. His nationality is Colombian

Serggyo (talk) 19:06, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RudolfRed (talk) 01:53, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

So far, Mr. Maduro has simply stated verbally that he was born in Caracas, but there are NO records or proof of what he stated .Migmontano (talk) 17:43, 5 October 2013 (UTC)


 * As far as I have gathered from media, there has been a very systematic search for his birth record both in Venezuela and in Colombia, and while nothing has been found in Venezuela, the record from the place and time when he allegedly was born is missing from Cucuta, Colombia. Given this situation, it would be entirely misleading to say that he was born in Caracas, why I have deleted that. What remains to be done is to formulate a statement explaining the political importance of this situation: That if he was either born outside of Venezuela, or he was born by a Colombian mother, he is not able to be the president of Venezuela. Then one can talk about the lack of proof; but IMHO the importance of the issue must be introduced to the reader BEFORE so that he/she understands why it is so hard to find the truth. --Dr Ulf Erlingsson (talk) 15:34, 7 October 2013 (UTC)


 * with all due respect, I believe that you are mistaken about the political importance of where Nicolas Maduro was born. It is true that article 41 (english) of Venezuela's constitution says that only "Venezuelans by birth" can be president. However, people are forgetting to look to article 32 (english), which actually defines what constitutes "Venezuelans by birth". As you can see, definition is so broad as to obviously include Nicolás Maduro regardless of his birthplace. EVEN IF it were proven true that BOTH Nicolás himself was born in Colombia, AND that his mother was Colombian, Nicolás would still qualify as a "Venezuelan birth" by virtue of having been born of a father who is Venezuelan either by birth or by naturalization. Riothero (talk) 06:51, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Nicolas Maduro is colombian, not venezuelan.
I was informed that Nicolas Maduro was born in Colombia and not in Venezuela.

Check this link:

http://www.abc.es/internacional/20130801/abci-maduro-entrevista-cochez-201308010234.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.248.246 (talk) 22:09, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It is an opinion. I dont think it would do any harm to mention this as long as we also included the rebuttal by Maduro, who certainly denies this claim, and which can also be easily sourced. Thanks, ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 22:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It's word against word. Maduro could easily dispell these rumors, but he elects not to do so. Circumstantial evidence favors the ABC story, it's more than just an "opinion".86.61.118.207 (talk) 14:33, 4 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The Registry of Colombia investigated the birth certificate put forward by Panama's ambassador to the OAS (the one mentioned in the ABC article) and came to conclude that it is false. Moreover, just last week, the president of the National Election Council certified Maduro's birth certificate on opposition television channel Globovisión. Regardless, even if it were proven true--and it hasn't been--that Nicolás Maduro himself were born in Colombia (and thus had a right to colombian citizenship), he could still dispel any constitutional issues by arguing, legally that, since he never exercised that citizenship (much less after 18), he is not a Colombian citizen and has never been (because, according to article 98 of that country's constitution, citizenship must be exercised at age 18--so he never even had to 'renounce' it), and thus his presidency does not constitute a violation of article 41 (english) of the Venezuelan constitution (which stipulates that only Venezuelans by birth and no other nationality may hold high political office). Riothero (talk) 06:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Maduro mobilizing the military for the 'revolution' during the election
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130403/lt-venezuela-election/

Quoting a military leader from that piece "The national armed forces will not fail Chavez," Molero said, according to state television. "Once elections are organized, we will honor his wishes and we will give the fascists a tough blow."

Venezuela's Constitution bans military officers from publicly promoting politicians or political parties. But in his 14 years in power, Chavez co-opted the armed forces' leadership to ensure loyalty to his socialist government, especially after he was briefly ousted in a coup in 2002.

- Although none of the editors here want to allow Spanish articles, I have three which show that Maduro gave out 20,000 SUVs to all the military commanders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk • contribs) 4 April 2013


 * This seems quite uncontroversial - it happened, it's well documented, I think it should be added. Any editors?89.142.168.64 (talk) 09:40, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Religion: Sathya Sai Baba movement, sourced to New York Times
His religion is Sathya Sai Baba movement, sourced to the New York Times. I believe that is a strong source. Please explain before you remove this why you remove it. Andries (talk) 08:01, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

This was already in the article several times, but keeps getting removed. I do not understand the reasons for removals. Please note that that an adherent may state to profess another religion at the same time. Sathya Sai Baba stated that he wanted to make better Christians, Hindus etc., not change religions. The movement is unusual in that respect. Andries (talk) 08:08, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

See also Talk:Nicol%C3%A1s_Maduro/Archive_1. Andries (talk) 08:22, 5 November 2013 (UTC) from New York Times
 * "But he also has a mystical side.
 * He has been a follower of the late Indian guru Sathya Sai Baba. Mr. Maduro and Ms. Flores visited the guru in India in 2005. A photograph on a Sai Baba Web site records the visit, showing Mr. Maduro crouched at the feet of the orange-clad guru. A friend confirmed the visit, which was also reported at the time in El Nacional, a local newspaper, and said that Mr. Maduro had kept a picture of the guru in his office. "
 * Andries (talk) 08:43, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not consider this sufficient evidence to justify listing "Sathya Sai Baba movement" as his religion--rather than "Christian"--for which there is much stronger evidence--or both. Consider that the Spanish equivalent of this article states that despite his Jewish family ancestry, "Maduro declares himself to be a Christian and refers to Christ in numerous speeches" (my rough translation). This line actually comes from a Venezuelan news article (the citation is not currently provided, but I found the original (credible news) source here), which quotes Maduro as saying that "I'm a Christian and have no doubt that Commander Chavez is at this moment beside El Liberator [Simón Bolívar]". He is also quoted in the article as saying that only a new formula that is both Christian and socialist will end crime. I am not aware of anyplace where Maduro identifies himself as an adherent of the "Sathya Sai Baba movement" (either instead of, or alongside, his self-declared Christianity). Riothero (talk) 17:22, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand that for a BLP categories self-designation is necessary. But clearly as someone who knows the movements well, self designations as Christian have little meaning. This is a well-documented trait of the movement. In addition, self-designation as an adherent of the movement would not make this politiician more popular. I have toned down and re-inserted the statement about being a follower of Sathya Sai Baba.Andries (talk) 09:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Stolen election
Wikipedia does not mention that most outside observors believe that this was a stolen election and that Murduro and the govt did not do an honest recount.== — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.159.130 (talk) 12:16, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Links
>> Venezuela's Maduro shuffles economic team(Lihaas (talk) 15:31, 18 January 2014 (UTC)).

Maduro's family origins and education
The article reads (as of 17-Feb-2014):

"Nicolás Maduro was born on 23 November 1962 in Caracas, Venezuela, the son of a union leader. He attended a public high school at the Liceo José Ávalos in El Valle, a working-class neighborhood on the western outskirts of Caracas".

Despite the statement in ALJAZEERA's reference claiming that he "was born in the Venezuelan capital", it is a well-known fact that he was born to a Colombian mother, Teresa de Jesús Moros, a Colombian that lived in Cúcuta, and therefore there is a reasonable suspicion that Maduro was born in Colombia, too. If he was proven to have been born abroad, his nomination and election as president of Venezuela would be against the Constitution, and hence ought to be declared null and void.

About his education: besides stating where he attended school, the article fails to specify whether he succeeded to graduate from primary school, or from secondary school, or not at all. When listening to Mr. Maduro's speeches, very few people would think he has any education at all.

--AVM (talk) 00:04, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2014
Birthplace have been not established, need more documentation for verification.

Proserven (talk) 13:30, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 15:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Acting president
The inauguration is 8 march but not 5 march. --Panam2014 (talk) 14:53, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I asked Panam2014 to come here because the French source conflicts with the sources in the article, which, I might add, are closer to the date of the transition than the French source. There has to be a consensus on what date to use or, god help us, to note both dates and the conflict.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I am here. I created this section. --Panam2014 (talk) 18:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Corruption claims of Maduro and his presidency
Univision television channel program showing some corruption examples during Chavez and Maduro's government:s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tZr5FiLqDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-SBlgfkO90 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enrique pantin (talk • contribs) 02:58, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2014
according to the Colombian government Nicolas Maduro was born in Colombia and went to Cuba to study dictatorship. Please verify this info and update his biography.

According to the Colombian government Nicolas maduro was born in Colombia and he went to Cuba to study dictatorship please verify this info and update his biography. Rickyhayabusa (talk) 01:24, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌ No reliable sources cited.  LGA talk  edits   07:46, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2014
I wish to fix a lot of errors I see on this page.

Hay muchos errores en esta pagina, me gustaria contribuir.

Talakum (talk) 17:24, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 21:20, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Nativity, alleged corruption, anti-Americanism
Unsigned comment moved from Requests for comment/Request board G. C. Hood (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

China
the section on china should stick to outlining, in broad terms, maduro's personal role and contribution to strengthening Venezuela-China economic and trade relations (provided that this is indeed what sources show). this means that for editors to remove major news like the announcement of $20 billion in Chinese loans Maduro secured after a state visit, and to insist on cherrypicking Venezuela's relatively small purchase of a few hundred anti-riot vehicles for particular mention (and using this to suggest a political criticism) is indicative of possible pov motives at work.--Tellectualin (talk) 20:04, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Once again you assume the worst and do not assume good fatih. There is much to be expanded in the section involving foreign relations. Also, such loans were never confirmed except by claims of the Venezuelan government while sources stated that President Maduro went home empty-handed.-- ZiaLater  ( talk  ) 21:26, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

"Jose Zalt wedding incident"
wikipedia is not a tabloid. elevating social media's publication of photos of Maduro's son celebrating at a wedding, to the status of an 'incident', and then cited as an excuse to repeat pov criticism of president maduro himself, for the thousandth time, falls tremendously short of encyclopedic standards regarding BLPs.--Tellectualin (talk) 19:51, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It had caused controversy among Venezuelans due to what they perceive as hypocrisy by President Maduro and was covered by multiple reliable sources. What is there to remove?-- ZiaLater  ( talk  ) 21:20, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


 * this is not a soapbox, nor a tabloid. it does not contribute any significant improvement to this encylopedic entry on Nicolas Maduro. you are unjustifiably elevating the non-notable release of some tabloid photos (of maduro's son--not even maduro himself!) that circulated among maduro's opponents to the status of an 'incident' as yet another excuse to give even more undue weight to pov criticism of maduro. it does not make me partison to want to respect wikipedia standards regarding npov and blps. --Tellectualin (talk) 04:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


 * WP:Tabloid only concerns being too detailed (every goal made, every hand shaken, etc.) and the inclusion of this certainly is not WP:Soapbox (aka propaganda, advocacy, etc.). It is a report by multiple sources, not just "Maduro's opponents". No one brought up you being "partisan" either Riothero (Tellectualin). Would you like to share more about you being partisan?-- ZiaLater  ( talk  ) 08:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * inclusion certainly violates a number of wikipedia standards, including being too detailed and given undue weight. please respond to Mbinebri's comment asking what justifies giving this "Jose Zalt wedding incident" (a term that no article cited uses) its own subsection?--Tellectualin (talk) 15:27, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * the fact that this "incident" has been covered in multiple sources hardly proves its notability. content does not meet minimum standards for a BLP (including you know, being ABOUT Nicolas Maduro, the actual subject of the article). --Tellectualin (talk) 15:34, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll reply to you and not Mbinebri because you are the Chavista who is so persistent with this. Though this incident is about Maduro's son, it caused outrage among many Venezuelans against Maduro according to the multiple sources provided. Go ahead and say that the sources are "POV", "imperialist" or whatever. You are starting to lose credibility with me. You delete messages I have for you on your talk page and continue to ignore my hints on adding more info that may help you blatant POV, but instead you would rather delete/censor reliably sourced information and place false, outdated information instead. I'm sorry that I need to use this talk page to explain this because you would most likely just delete it from yours. Go ahead and accuse me of being POV too but I only have sources, not an opinion. The exact opposite can be said for you.-- ZiaLater  ( talk  ) 16:55, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You engage in ad hominem, not good faith arguments in an attempt to resolve our disputes. I do not "accuse you of being POV" when I point out that your edits lack NPOV. And again, it is not enough merely to cite sources. the content you include on wikipedia pages must meet the minimum standards of notability, reliability, and should not be cherry-picked, reflect undue weight, or selectively chosen from partial sources.--Tellectualin (talk) 14:16, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Content standards are reaching new lows with this inclusion. Could it be any more trivial? It barely has anything to do with President Maduro himself, and yet it has its own subsection and level of content like it was an important policy stance.  Mbinebri  talk &larr; 18:45, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Drastically contradictory accounts of nephews' arrests
The source cites Fox News: "The men allegedly were in the process of smuggling cocaine – just under a ton, roughly about 1,700 lbs. – into the United States when they were arrested"

From CNN : "arrested Tuesday night in the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince as they were preparing to finalize a deal that would have allowed them to transport 800 kilograms of drugs to the United States, the source said."

How it was rendered on Wikipedia: "arrested in Port-au-Prince, Haiti by local police while carrying 800 kilos of cocaine destined for New York"

I did not read one source that was paywalled, but I think a previous editor fell victim to a well-crafted bit of misleading ... journalism. Wnt (talk) 14:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

What should we do with this WSJ claim?
"The two were previously monitored and filmed by the DEA between October and November of 2015 after they contacted a DEA informant for advice on trafficking cocaine and brought a kilogram of cocaine to the informant to show its quality.[134]"

This is sourced to paywalled which I can't access.

However, I can do a search for "Antonio Campos Flores" "informant" and I come up with nothing but this Wikipedia article.

First, can someone confirm the WSJ says they say what we say they say?

Second: the Wall Street Journal located in the U.S. may be viewed as quite a partisan source about Venezuelan officials. Do we need a confirming report before we place this claim prominently, per BLP? At the very least I'm thinking we should say "Wall Street Journal wrote than a source told them that an informant said..." or whatever the provenance actually is if you can read the article to see. Wnt (talk) 14:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Dubious
Just two citations are included supporting the statement about the alleged Maduro's birthplace in the section Personal Life, sub-section Family background. The first one, in Spanish language, was taken from EL MUNDO's website, a chavista newspaper, and refers only to Maduro's birthday date, not to his birthplace. The second reference, taken from Al Jazeera's website (which is inherently alien & unreliable when it comes to Latin American matters), only states "Maduro was born in the Venezuelan capital and educated at a public high school". What has an arab website have to do with Venezuela? (It's just like writing an article related to Hawaii and relying on Al Jazeera for references) Couldn't the WP article's contributor find more credible sources? The fact that both of Maduro's parents were native Colombians is sufficient motive to doubt the truthfulness of the assertion that he "was born in Venezuela". --AVM (talk) 04:19, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Nicolás Maduro. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/11-de-abril/120412/canciller-maduro-llama-sifrinitos-y-fascistas-a-dirigentes-opositores

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Protection
Hasn't this page been vandalized enough to be semi-protected? That should at least prevent anonymous IPs from all this nonsense. --Akhenaten0 (talk) 18:54, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

First sentence
more commonly known as Nicolás Maduro is not necessary or true. It should simply be omitted. Everyone in Spanish-speaking countries has a paternal surname and a maternal surname, and in day to day usage they only use the paternal surname. It doesn't make sense to say that he is "more commonly" known by his actual name. This is detailed in the link at the very top of the article. You might as well say for someone with a middle name, "John Paul Smith, more commonly known as John Smith" - it's long winded, and perfectly obvious. 83.34.164.24 (talk) 16:53, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Also, has been the 65th President of Venezuela since 2013 means that there has been 65 presidents since 2013. Changing to since 2013 has been. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.97.110.60 (talk) 15:40, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Splitting the Policies section and leaving a summation
A suggestion, here is a copy of the edit description I left with the tag: "Adding a split suggestion tag. I think it would be sensible to summarize this section here, and split to Presidency page, as currently it is largely on that topic. However, I would rather get feedback before being bold in this case." Yvarta (talk) 22:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2017
At the beggining of this article someone named Nicolas Maduro as a dictator of Venezuela, he's not a dictator, hi's the President of Venezuela. Also he don't just been elected to the national assambly in 2000, he was a formed deputy of the National Constituent Assembly in 1999 where the new constitution was born with more than 80% of the popular votes. X: dictator Y: President X: A former bus driver, Maduro rose to become a trade union leader, before being elected to the National Assembly in 2000. Y: A former bus driver, Maduro rose to become a trade union leader before he was elected as a deputy of the National Constituent Assembly in 1999 before being elected to the National Assembly in 2000. Ignachiou (talk) 20:18, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Morphdog flames 21:29, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2017
"63rd president since 2013" implies there have been 62 others since 2013, which is not the case. It should read "63rd president of Venezuela since assuming office in 2013. Hectorhern0903 (talk) 13:28, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done —   IVORK  Discuss 13:53, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Quoting CNN to talk about political economy and bad faith
The introduction of the article clearly presents political affirmations that are under-sourced and biased (CNN) : "As a result of Chávez's policies and Maduro's continuation of them, Venezuela's socioeconomic status declined, with crime, inflation, poverty and hunger increasing.[8][9][10][11]". 1)None of the provided sources explain such biased assumption: none of the arguments presented here prove that it is a result of Chavez policies that the actual socio-economic crisis have risen. And these sources show absolutely no direct causality between "Chavez's policies" (which ones ? Can it be considered as a whole ? Or are we strictly talking only about the price control act ? ) and crime, poverty and hunger statistics. Another source speaks only on the impact on oil prices bu there is no macroeconomic analysis. 2) What makes the socio-economical "status" of a country ? Does the person who wrote this created a meaningful indicator that assembles these variables ? Is there any methodology behind this ? And what is "poverty", are we talking about the access to education or minimum wage ? In this case, this assumption is utterly false (cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez_government#Income_and_Poverty)

Please, let's keep political biases out of Wikipedia, and please let's keep CNN out of economic arguments.

✅. The references from CNN and Foreign policies were from the time that Chávez died, so I replaced them with more modern ones. Cambalachero (talk) 15:42, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Blatant POV. When CNN or anybody else says that some policy is causing an economy to do poorly, that is an opinion, not a fact. The sentence quoted above is an OPINION, and a very questionable opinion. Venezuela's economy was doing well before the US sanctions. The fact that you have replaced the older biased sources with newer biased sources does not eliminate the fact that what they support is an OPINION. Your Buddy Fred Lewis (talk) 03:21, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily taking a position on this specific matter (impact of specific policies on Venezuela's economy currently), but I think you're setting an unrealistic and, frankly, counterproductive bar when it comes to "fact" vs. "opinion," especially in complex systems. While I agree that sentences like the one you quoted above should probably be qualified (I'd say something like "many analysts believe..." would be sufficient), suggesting that economic analyses of a particular set of policies is effectively impossible (and merely some opinion-laden exercise) shows a profound disrespect for the field as a whole. 52.45.90.242 (talk) 14:47, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

No, this is not an unrealistic standard. This is pro-capitalist propaganda and pays little to no attention to manipulative factors undertaken by Western governments to undermine the economy of venezuela.

English
3rd paragraph, right above 'Contents': '...which froze US assets and prohibited...' should be '...by freezing his US assets and prohibiting...'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:3126:3E00:194B:DBD8:4CF0:F06E (talk) 14:33, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Negative POV
This article is thoroughly negative, and part of the concerted effort by US and transnational interests to discredit and disrupt Venezuela. They have oil (gosh, who knew?) and they have committed the cardinal sins of (1) using something other than the dollar; (2) being more socialist than the US is (think roads and schools — that's socialism). Having been an international human rights observer in Latin America, and knowing personally people who have done that in Venezuela, I can attest that what you hear at home is not what you see there on the ground. &#59;Bear (talk) 14:39, 17 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The Human Rights Watch does not seem to share your view. Cambalachero (talk) 16:14, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Human Rights Watch is an NGO, funded and controlled by US government. US govt seeks "regime change" and is waging economic warfare against Venezuela, we shouldn't be treating it as a reliable source. lol This article proclaims that Maduro is a "dictator", based on nothing more than statement from US treasury. It's absurd!93.80.40.80 (talk) 16:21, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * See here: "Human Rights Watch is an independent, nongovernmental organization, supported by contributions from private individuals and foundations worldwide. It accepts no government funds, directly or indirectly". Cambalachero (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Subversive American "human rights" groups as authority on Venezuela?
Is there any particular reason why we are facilitating the imperialism of the United States in this article by using subversive American NGOs as if they are a neutral source? "Human Rights Watch" is based in New York City, in the United States, a country which is hostile to sitting government of Venezuela. This needs to be stated explicitly in the article.

There is no reason to just play along and pretend using the term "human rights" is enough to distract us from the American nature of HRW. Similarly with the even more blatant, Human Rights Foundation, which doesn't even pretend to be anything other than what it is; a subversive group of US-based anti-regime Venezuelans, sponsored by the CIA, with the goal of overthrowing Maduro (and indeed Chavez when he was alive).

As it states on the Criticism of Human Rights Watch article under Venezuela, the very person covered by this article, when he was Foreign Minister stated the following; "These groups, dressed up as human rights defenders, are financed by the United States. They are aligned with a policy of attacking countries that are building new economic models." Claíomh Solais (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Yawn! As usual, those denouncing Maduro's gross human rights violations are silenced as part of some kind of "American imperialist conspiracy", even if these same organizations have criticized the United States on numerous occasions. At this point it's not even funny. And you don't need Human Rights Watch to overthrow your hero, since most Venezuelans are tired of him anyway. But I guess over three-quarters of the people in Venezuela are also "American imperialists", that's why they don't like a rain-forest socialist paradise without drinking water, a glorious energy exporter without the juice to run street lights, flush with banknotes and out of money. For sure, most Venezuelans are subversive CIA agents that need to be shot or sent to reeducation camps in the Gulag. Somehow we will fix the situation. We need more bullets and propaganda. Facts and statistics are not relevant, we live in a post-truth world... until reality hits us in the face and we collapse completely. That's what we do. We put our failed theory in practice by destroying countries, blaming "American imperialism", and trying again. Persistence is the key to success, comrade. Viva la revolución!Hammer and sickle red on transparent.svg--DarkKing Rayleigh (talk) 22:04, 10 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The foreign policy of the United States has zero relation with the reliability of any given source from the US. The president of the US (be it Trump, Obama or whoever) does not control in any way the things that any given NGO may say. In any case, Wikipedia itself is proyect made in the US, so if everything that comes from the US was biased, this article would also be, no matter what we do or decide here. Fortunately, that's not the case. --Cambalachero (talk) 23:31, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia has written within its rules of play a policy called WP:NPOV where the articles are supposed to be completely neutral on matters of politics. Wikipedia isn't a Sorosian activist group for promoting astroturf American "colour revolution" across the world. It is a forum for freely available and non-partisan knowledge. "Human Rights Watch" doesn't have the same policy of neutrality, it is a political lobby. The very concept of human rights itself is a slippery bourgeois liberal conception of relatively recent minting and has been rolled out by the Anglo-Saxon and (controlled) "French" pornocratic powers whenever they want to overthrow a government. The successful overthrow of Gaddaffi? The failed attempt to oust Assad? I can see why you would want to hide references to these groups being based in New York City though, since the rest of the world are slightly more wary. Claíomh Solais (talk) 18:39, 11 September 2017 (UTC)


 * And your point is...? Yes, Muammar Gaddafi was also a dictator that commited violations of human rights, and he was ousted from power. But I don't see which is the relation with Maduro: that happened when Maduro was not president yet, and half a world away from Venezuela. Cambalachero (talk) 19:07, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I suspect Claiomh Solais doesn't really have a point. If you look back on this editor's edit history you'll see that they often slip into generic rants about this that and the other. I think it's worth pointing out to Claíomh Solais (once again) that this is a serious project and not a general public message board.Contaldo80 (talk) 08:40, 12 September 2017 (UTC)