Talk:Nicole Wallace (Law & Order: Criminal Intent)

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How on earth does someone have this extent of knowledge on the topic of a fictional TV character?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trademarx (talk • contribs) 01:04, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Not really that hard, considering the info is given in the episode.--Kross 01:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

"Goren and Eames raided Wallace's house, but she refused to go without a fight, and was apparently killed along with her lover when Eames opened fire on them in self defense." That's not right. Wallance arranged to meet her accomplice at a pier warehouse. When Wallace discovered that her accomplice was bugged, she crushed her trachea and threw her through a window into the river. A quart of Wallace's blood was at the scene, but no body. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.162.62.56 (talk) 04:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You're correct, I fixed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.154.41 (talk) 09:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Did she ever get prosecuted/serve time for the murder tied to her first appearance? If not, why wasn't she held on to in the second episode? David Iwancio 03:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That depends on what coast you watched that episode from, two versions of the episode were shown. The east coast version is where she met at the pier, the west coast version is where she was shot dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Werds (talk • contribs) 03:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

This is from Mseames
 * Wallace was acquitted of the murders from her first two appearances (Anti-thesis and A Person of Interest), most likey due to her wealthy husband at the time, Gavin Haynes, who bought her innocence. This was implied in a non-Nicole episode "Pas de Deux".
 * There are a few errors I also corrected. It was not said that Nicole was married to her daughters father, and she never murdered a rich husband. The only husband that we know Nicole has had was to Gavin Haynes in 2003 and that marriage ended in divorce in 2004. The person murdered in "A Person of Interest" was a young army nurse. Nicole murdered her to steal the Anthrax that was used to set up Dan Croydon, the second person Nicole murdered in "A Person of Interest". I also added the fact that Nicole had been inprisoned in Thailand for several years where she and her then boyfriend had murdered 9 men. This is also how Nicole learned to speak "low class" Thai. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Woohookitty (talk • contribs) 01:45, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Another correction from me. Nicole did not attempt to kill Gavin Haynes in "A Person of Interest". In fact, this is the episode where we learn Nicole married Gavin. In Nicole's next appearance in "Great Barrier, Gavin and Nicole are now divorced, and this is the episode where Nicole uses Ella to try to kill Gavin but did not succeed with the murder. Mseames —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.188.116.13 (talk) 16:53, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The two different episodes concerned her third appearance, not her first appearance. Nicole was prosecuted for her murders in her first and second appearances (off screen) but, she was acquitted (off screen as well), most likey due her her then husband's money and connections. This inference is referenced in the non-Nicole episode "Pas de Deux". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.139.146 (talk) 02:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Another correction: Eames didn't shoot Nicole in the West Coast version; Goren did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.139.146 (talk) 02:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Speculation vs. Reality and Other
I think the third paragraph is all based on Goren's speculation and shouldn't be presented as fact. We don't actually know if she was molested by her father or if she resented her mother: those are all Gorem's speculations on her motives and haven't actually been confirmed (though I admit they are likely).

Also "the brains behind a diamond smuggling ring" is being overly generous. Neither Nicole nor Ella were smuggling anything: they were stealing. I don't think there was any mention of smuggling those diamonds. Vjmurphy 17:20, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Great info about a great character. Just a couple things... Fremont presents himself as British, but we're told in Slither that he's actually French. He spent some time in Hong Kong, which is what Goren used to deduce that he(Fremont) speaks Mandarin Chinese with a Thai accent, but this is strange because while Mandarin is the official national language of China, Cantonese is the primary language in Hong Kong. 69.110.243.98 18:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC). ez 18:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Various Storyline Corrections
Slither Episode

Benard had came to New York about 4 years ago, around the same time Nicole arrived. YThus, Benard had not "recently" arrived". Nor was there any indication that Benard had contact with Nicole nor had tried to seek her out in New York. Goren suggested Both might not have known the other was even there. The information about "Slither" needs much correction!

Wallaces' whereabouts and life before arriving in New York City

It was not said that Nicole recieved a lesser sentence for testifying against Fremont, deported back to Australia. It was not said either that Wallace supported herself as a prosititute. This is pure assumption. We do not know Wallace's whereabouts or her activities until 1996, when Goren learned she had been in Bendigo, Australia and 1997, when she gave birth to her daughter, again in Australia. Wallace's whereabouts are not specified again until her arrival in New York in 2002, though I think she was in England shortly before she arrived in New York City. The earliest wherabouts of Wallace is from 1985 to 1994, where she was imprisoned in Thailand for nine years.

Elizabeth Hitchens

I believe Elizabeth Hitchens was an English citizen who worked in Australia and Wallace murdered and assumed Hitchens' identity in England, shortly before Wallace arrived in New York City.

Great Barrier and Grow Episodes

Goren and Eames never found anything to convict Wallace of in Great Barrier. They attempted to use a wired Ella to connect her to the crimes but instead Wallace killed Ella and fled once again. Rather, Wallace was indicted for Ella's murder in "Grow" but never faced trial as she fled the police a fourth time.

'''A Person of Interest Episode"

And for the nth time, Wallace did not attempt to kill Haynes in A Person of Interest!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.138.141 (talk) 05:00, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

A Person of Interest Episode

"She then murdered a young former Air Force nurse so she could steal a vial of anthrax from her to use in the set up of Dr. Dan Croydon." Perhaps this should be changed to just Dan Croydon. Much was made of his NOT earning a PhD in the episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.106.6 (talk) 02:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Sheldon Ranz comments:
 * There's a huge amount of Goren's speculation accepted as fact about Hitchens/Wallace over here. We really don't know who murdered that 'young former Air Force nurse' or who managed to get Croydon hung.  Croydon is a tall, strong man - how could petite Hitchens/Wallace manage that feat?
 * She has denied all of these killings (except for allowing her daughter to drown at sea). Given that she was cleared of the killings and other mayhem perpetrated by her drug-addicted fiancee in "Grow", perhaps her other denials merit currency.
 * Nicole was not cleared of the murders in "Great Barrier" or "Grow", she jumped bail before she stood trial. It is said in "Pas de Deux" that Gavin paid for a not guilty verdict for the "Anti-Thesis" and "A Person Interest" Murders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * For starters, Goren mentions in "Grow" that she has an attraction to serial killers. Since she married Gavin Haynes, what does that say about him?  It's bizarre that Goren and Eames never suspected him of any wrongdoing.  Haynes struck me as too smooth to be just some innocent passersby in Hitchens/Wallace's life, as if anyone could be! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.120.215 (talk) 00:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, we do know who murdered the nurse and Croydon. Nicole murdered the nurse and to steal the anthrax used to set up Croydon, who she then killed and made look like a suicide to smear Goren. Nicole was tried for their murders and those ftom "Anti-Thesis" and was only acquitted due to then husband's buying her acquittal. Goren told us how Nicole killed Croydon - she got him intoxicated and then strung him up. It's not impossible for a woman to kill a man - Nicole has killed several men.
 * Nicole was not trying to kill the child in "Grow" but, she did admit to killing the child's uncle. Nicole married Haynes years after her first murders - she also murdered the real Elizabeth Hitchens in Australia and murdered men in Thailand with Bernard, which she was convicted and imprisoned in Thailand for - and also tried to kill Gavin (in Great Barrier) when he was no longer of use to her. Nicole only married Gavin to secure USA citizenship. "Slither" was dedicated to Nicole's "killer skills". Bernard bragged about teaching Nicole how to kill and fawned over Nicole's murderous abilities.
 * Nicole did not allow her small daughter to simply "drown at sea" - the child's neck was forcibly broken according to coronor's reports. There is no doubt hat Nicole is guilty of all the murders she is said to have committed. Nicole is not guilty based on Gorens' speculations, Nicole is guilty because all of the evidence clearly points to her. Criminal Intent has plainly and clearly laid out in each Nicole episode how and why Nicole is guilty of her numerous murders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.101.5 (talk) 01:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Thesis (2:3) Episode

The article stated that Wallace kills Mark Bayley when she "injects his nicotine gum with peanut oil causing Bayley to go into anaphylactic shock".

I do not recall any such injecting of nicotine gum, but in any case I know this is not how she killed Bayley, having just seen that episode a couple of weeks ago. (See article for correction.)Daqu 07:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

But wait!: Is there a chance (based on reading above that at least one episode has two versions) that this episode, too, has two versions -- which would explain differing perceptions of how Wallace killed Bayley???Daqu 08:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nicole Wallace was written as a serial killer, as Goren's nemesis, and already had a history of murder before she first arrived in New York City. To have it turn out that Wallace is in fact this innocent woman that you are portraying her as defeats the purpose of her being a nemesis and taking on the Moriarty role as Sherlock's nemesis.

Anti-Thesis (2:3) Episode

The article stated that Wallace kills Mark Bayley when she "injects his nicotine gum with peanut oil causing Bayley to go into anaphylactic shock".

I do not recall any such injecting of nicotine gum, but in any case I know this is not how she killed Bayley, having just seen that episode a couple of weeks ago. (See article for correction.)Daqu 07:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nicole killed Mark by spiking his gum with peanut oil, of which he was highly allergic to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

But wait!: Is there a chance (based on reading above that at least one episode has two versions) that this episode, too, has two versions -- which would explain differing perceptions of how Wallace killed Bayley???Daqu 08:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, there is only one version. Nicole spiked Mark's gum with peanut oil, of which Mark was highly allergic to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Sheldon Ranz responds: (I'm just going over this since there will be a new Nicole Wallace episode in just a few weeks - today being 8/9/2008)

The viewer never saw who did any of those murders - if the show's writers wanted it to be clearly "Nicole", all they had to do was to have the camera angle widened when the army nurse opened the door and the refrigerator so we'd see her clearly. Remember when "Criminal Intent" used to do that in the first season?
 * The show usually did not show the actual killer, especially past the first season. Nicole's episodes started in season 2. The evidence points to Nicole. We usually did not see who committed any murders - only was the killer revealed at the end. The fact that we did not SEE Nicole kill her victims is not enough reason to claim she is innocent. If that were true, then the same would have to be said for every Criminal Intent episode where we did not see the actual murders. Which in turn defeats the purpose of Criminal Intent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Obviously, women can kill men. Guns, for example, are the great equalizer. But since guns were not used here, it requires a more intense personal effort on the part of the killer. [Why would Croydon allow himself to have a drink with her anyway, especially in his paranoid state?] Unless Ms Wallace turns out to be a latter-day Xena, Warrior Princess, I don't see it.
 * That is Nicole's MO. She seduced men to kill them, usually by poison. Bernard taught her how to use poison. Croydon was paranoid but thought he had found an ally in Nicole against Goren. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nicole was not trying to kill the child in "Grow" but, she did admit to killing the child's uncle.

Nope. She did not admit to anything of the sort. When Goren first brought that up, she said he was crazy. She has never confessed to any murder, only to the criminally negligent homicide of her daughter.
 * I'm certain she alluded that she killed the uncle to protect the child. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nicole married Haynes years after her first murders - she also murdered the real Elizabeth Hitchens in Australia and murdered men in Thailand with Bernard, which she was convicted and imprisoned in Thailand for - and also tried to kill Gavin (in Great Barrier) when he was no longer of use to her. Nicole only married Gavin to secure USA citizenship. "Slither" was dedicated to Nicole's "killer skills". Bernard bragged about teaching Nicole how to kill and fawned over Nicole's murderous abilities.

You're mixing in speculation with facts. It's not at all clear that the Nicole Bernard knew is the same women who has called herself Elizabeth Hitchens and then changed her name to Nicole Wallace because "if you can't beat them, join them", as she told Eames. And did she try to kill Gavin, or was that Ella's own idea? Or perhaps Ella and Gavin arranged that together to frame Hitchens/Wallace, just like Evan Chapel tried to frame her years later?
 * There is not any speculation. There is no doubt that Nicole Wallace is the same woman because Bernard talked with Goren about Nicole, saying Goren had made Nicole a fugitive. Bernard talked directly about her, and the police had a photo and Thai documents placing the two together in Thailand. The show alludes that the attempt on Gavin's life was Nicole's idea - not Ella's. Nicole tried to kill Gavin to silence him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, even Goren claims that Nicole didn't marry Gavin just to secure citizenship, but that she genuinely is attracted to him because of the forceful way he seemed to be protecting her in his study when Goren barged in in "A Person of Interest".
 * Goren thought Nicole was trying to delude herself by marrying Gavin, insinuating Nicole was trying to deny her own fickle nature. Goren warned Gavin that Nicole would turn on him and he was right - she did turn on Gavin in Great Barrier - she tried to have him killed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nicole did not allow her small daughter to simply "drown at sea" - the child's neck was forcibly broken according to coroner's reports. There is no doubt hat Nicole is guilty of all the murders she is said to have committed. Nicole is not guilty based on Gorens' speculations, Nicole is guilty because all of the evidence clearly points to her. Criminal Intent has plainly and clearly laid out in each Nicole episode how and why Nicole is guilty of her numerous murders.
 * Actually, there's plenty of reasonable doubt that I've laid out above. And in "Grow", the DNA analysis could not link the child to Hitchens/Wallace because of the soil, a finding which caused ADA Carver to fume that he "felt like a first-year law student out there!"
 * Regardless, Nicole admitting to killing the child so there is no doubt she killed the child. You can argue the degree of intent with which Nicole killed the child but, Nicole herself admitted to Goren that she killed the child. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe the show is being ambiguous about whether D'Abo's character is guilty of any of the murders. Is the ambiguity intentional or accidental? Will the upcoming season finale clear things up in favor of the conventional wisdom - GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY - or will it shock us with a big revelation, like, say, Wallace/Hitchens and Goren both being the children of serial murderer Mark Ford Bailey? All that ribbing she gave him in their first interrogation-room encounter about what their fathers had in common would begin to make sense, at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.175.192 (talk) 02:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Nicole Wallace Not Modeled On Chantal
The recurrent character of "Nicole Wallace" in the Law & Order episodes is most likely not based on Charles Sobhraj's wife Chantal, who returned to Paris with her daughters early in their marriage, but rather on one of his lovers, the French-Canadian Marie-Andree Leclerc who is thought to have committed several of Sobhraj's crimes with him. Leclerc is the one who was arrested with Sobhraj and who spent several years in a Thai jail (like Nicole on L&O) before being granted an early leave due to the fact that she had developed ovarian cancer. Unlike Nicole, Marie returned to Canada after her release and died of her illness within a year or two following that time.

Also, the Law & Order character Bernard Fremont, Nicole Wallace's former mentor, lover and instructor in the art of poisons, confidence games and evil of every kind (whom she later kills during the episode where he appears) is almost certainly based upon Charles Sobhraj himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.101.5 (talk) 05:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Mark Bayley and Ella Miyazuki
How did Nicole get away with their murders? She clearly exlpoited Bayley's peanut allergy and killed Ella with her bare hands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.42.37.218 (talk) 21:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * She jumped bail before she faced trial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Is She Really Dead?
I am not so sure. We never saw her body in Frame (7:22) and Declan Gage is not the most stable or reliable individual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChristeVita (talk • contribs) 20:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Sheldon Ranz remarks:

Indeed, not only is there no body, but the ME does not say how long ago the heart was removed from Nicole's chest. What if Nicole had a heart transplant say, ten years PRIOR, and kept the original fresh in formaldehyde just to use it to throw people off her trail by faking death? Remember, when she fought Ella at the pier years before, she brought some of her old transfused blood and splattered it over the area to convince Goren and Eames that she must have bled to death.

Declan never said explicitly HOW he killed Nicole. Indeed, he seems too urbane to get his hands involved in anything gory. And since he said he never targetted Donny, then who DID sent the package with the heart inside and the Donny photo outside?

Theory: Once Declan resisted Nicole's seduction, she had a hunch that he would try to kill her later on. So she substituted something harmless in the needle he intended to use on her, and faked her death when he injected her with what he thought was poison. He hired some thugs from the Masucci crime family to dispose of the body but chose not to witness what they did; Nicole "awoke" and scared the thugs, but told them that whatever Declan was paying them, she'd double for them NOT to do it. They agree, and later she sends the heart in the package with Donny's photo on top to Pittsfield, Massachusetts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.193.2.4 (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Finally, something we agree on. I do not believe Nicole is dead either, unfortunately. Until there is a body, her reemerge is entirely possible. It's a good theory on how she faked her death. The only question is - why is Declan still alive if Nicole did in fact turn on him? Surely Nicole would come after him. Nicole did not poison Declan, Declan poisoned himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.44 (talk) 23:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Sheldon remarks: Nicole may be planning an attack on Declan in the near future, but not immediately. Why? Well, she may have thought it wise to lay low for a while, having the world think she's dead so she can plan her next move without having to look over her shoulder so much. Of course, she might have figured Declan would have confessed to Goren eventually, so why not let Bobby do some of her dirty work by getting Declan sent to jail? He'd be an easier target there.
 * True. I think she's still lurking out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not claiming that not seeing Nicole kill anyone on screen means that she's automatically innocent - we usually get a confession if not an outright visual from all the other perps. But the seeds of doubt were planted in "Grow" in which she was cleared of one murder (Evan Chapel's first wife) and an attempted murder (Gwen Chapel). That doesn't jibe with what we know about serial killers. Her talent at convincingly assuming all kinds of careers - college professor, drug counselor - sounds less like the skill set of a Ted Bundy and more like that of the Jared, the "Pretender" (the Michael T. Weiss character from the 1990s NBC show of the same name)
 * I thought "Great Barrier" was written to manipulate the viewer. This was the episode where viewers were to decide if Nicole lived or died and the Nicole we were given did not jive with the Nicole we seen in her previous episodes. I think "Grow" continued the manipulation. Instead of trying to hold Nicole accountable for her actions, both episodes spent much of the time trying to manipulate the viewer into feeling sorry for Nicole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Goren tried to explain away the oddness of Nicole becoming uncharacteristically attached to Gwen because Nicole was trying to delude herself that she was completely normal. He convinced her to "give up" Gwen because Nicole would eventually turn on Gwen. That Nicole could snap and kill Gwen. I think Nicole was infuriated that Goren was correct but as usual, blamed Goren for her actions rather than taking responsibility for herself. Nicole has yet to take any kind of responsibility for anything she has done because Goren mollycoddles her. That is one of the many things about this story line that always struck me as odd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I remember The Pretender. I always wondered if they based the premise of the show on Frank Abagnale Jr., the great con artist who now works for the FBI... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Back to Nicole - I think her assuming identities can be associated with her sociopath personality. Her chameleon like abilities do seem odd but much of the story line was odd and filled with plot holes from the first episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

There was no indication that Larry Chapel was seduced by Nicole (no saliva in the groin area, for example, as with Goren's brother) - he was seen carrying a gun into the projects, he was almost a foot taller and around 100 lbs heavier than Nicole. He was fully aware of her reputation. So how could she overpower him? And wasn't her alleged M.O. then to have others do the dirty work of murder (Bailey, Bernard)?
 * I think Nicole sneaked up behind Chapel. He may not have been aware of her reputation. Nicole didn't even realise the father was ware of her reputation. Nicole did have a gun so she wouldn't need to overpower Chapel, rather she just needed to get his attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

These are all valid questions. I hope the L & O writers are reading this and incorporating a sensible explanation into a future Nicole Wallace appearance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.158.54 (talk) 05:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind Nicole returning to settle the plot holes and to have her have a dramatic sendoff. Having Nicole go out with a "whimper" didn't seem fitting considering how she was postured to rival Goren as a nemesis. Having her have a dramatic ending seems more fitting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.6.191 (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Frame Episode
Nicole was shown four times in total, not two. First at the drug meeting, second at the cafe, third knocking at Frank Goren's door, and fourth at the flower shop. The flower shop is the only time you can clearly see her face. Any particular reason the other two times were not mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.19.22.59 (talk) 22:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Murder Victims
Regarding her daughter's death, much was made in Great Barrier that Nicole had murdered the child, hence the broken neck and forcibly twisted arm being mentioned. Later much was made about the child being murdered, and Nicole's flippant remarks to Goren about "accidents" seemed to confirm she did murder the child. Given the information in the episode, I think saying it might have been an accident is reaching. 00:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.19.17.92 (talk)

Requested move 19 January 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

Nicole Wallace → Nicole Wallace (Law & Order: Criminal Intent) – The final episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent was broadcast 11½ years ago, in June 2011 and, while Nicole Wallace was indeed a memorable character, she appeared on the series in only five episodes intermittently seen between 2001 and 2008. On the other hand, the TV host Nicolle Wallace has been presenting for two hours daily over a period of years. Thus, Nicole Wallace should redirect to Nicolle Wallace, where an already existing hatnote — For the Law & Order: Criminal Intent character, see Nicole Wallace. — can be tweaked to state, For the character, see Nicole Wallace (Law & Order: Criminal Intent). — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:45, 19 January 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.