Talk:Niek Vossebelt/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 17:21, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:21, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed; Earwig finds no issues. I've copyedited a bit, rather than posting minor issues here; let me know if I've screwed anything up. That's the only prose issue; the article is short and straightforward. When the source issues are settled I will do some spotchecks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * What makes the following reliable sources? I don't speak Dutch so these may be obvious to you.
 * weblogzwolle.nl
 * rtvdrenthe.nl
 * voetbal247.nl
 * elfvoetbal.nl
 * "He immediately scored in his debut for the club, closing the score": what does "closing the score" mean?


 * Hi Mike, thanks for helping out.
 * weblogzwolle.nl and rtvdrenthe.nl are regional news outlets, that are considered very reliable in the Netherlands. voetbal247.nl is the main source for amateur football news in the Netherlands and elfvoetbal.nl does in-depth articles and interviews on anything related to Dutch football (much like Voetbal International).
 * By "closing the score" I mean that he scored the final goal of the game. I assumed that it was a correct phrase, but if not, it should be removed. Bocanegra (talk) 21:12, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I haven't heard "closing the score", so I think it's probably not a phrase used in English; I'd suggest changing it to something like "scored the final goal of the game", since that's completely clear. I've struck the first two source questions.  For the other two, are they professional magazines, fan sites, one-person operations?  If they're corporate-owned, and having an editorial staff, then they're fine.  If they're put together by fans then we'd need more evidence that they're reliable -- e.g. if they get cited frequently by other news sources. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 22:26, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I have changed the phrasing, so it should be completely clear now. On second thought, him scoring the final goal of the game is not vital information, so I have simplified the sentence. Voetbal247 describe themselves as an "independent football platform focusing on news, interviews and statistics" on the lower tiers of Dutch football. It is the main website reporting on amateur football in the Netherlands, but I couldn't figure out if they're corporate-owned. They have an editor-in-chief and a staff. If the source is unreliable, it shouldn't be a problem to find another source on Vossebelt's transfer, from a source that's considered more reliable.
 * Regarding ELF Voetbal - they're owned by ELF+ who are registered in the Dutch Business Register. They have an editorial staff, and publish a monthly magazine available in supermarkets etc. Bocanegra (talk) 09:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've struck ELF Voetbal based on what you say. For voetbal247.nl, can you give me a link to a page showing their staff?  That might be enough.  Or if you have another more clearly reliable source that would work too. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 14:01, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I replaced the Voetbal247 source with one from Omroep Flevoland, a public regional broadcast much like RTV Drenthe, which are state funded. Hope that sorted out any minor issues on citations! Bocanegra (talk) 21:28, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That looks good -- thanks. I'll go ahead with the rest of the review. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 11:02, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Just two minor issues on a read-through: Spotchecks: Can you fix these, and perhaps check the other citations to be sure they're accurate? I'll do another spotcheck once you're done -- the spotcheck has to come back clean, or almost clean, for me to be able to promote the article, so I'll wait till you tell me you're confident everything is ready to be checked again. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:34, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The lead says Vossebelt signed with Den Bosch in 2015, but in the body it says 2014.
 * The lead says he was a key player for Den bosch, but this isn't mentioned or cited in the body.
 * FN 7 cites "On 19 May 2010, he signed a three-year contract with Eredivisie club Willem II." Verified, but can we be sure that 19 May is when he signed?  The writer doesn't say "Today".  I would suggest just making this "In May 2010" to be on the safe side.  And looking at the Soccerway data they give 30 June 2010; is that perhaps the contract date?
 * FN 9 cites "Vossebelt eventually became a starter for Emmen during the season, as the club finished fourth in the league table. He made 28 total appearances, scoring four goals." This supports him being a start, but not the league position, and it looks like 25 appearances to me unless I'm misreading the table.
 * FN 36 cites "He immediately scored in his debut for the club in 94th minute of a 4–0 league win over Jong Ajax." This doesn't seem to support that the match was Vossebelt's debut.


 * Minor issues:
 * - He signed in 2015, I have fixed it in the body.
 * - I changed "regular starter" to "key player" to more accurately describe his role. He was team captain at a young age and top goalscorer from midfield in his final season at the club: I see this as being more "key player" than "regular starter". Thus, it should be fixed now.
 * Struck. I see your point; I think that's verging on interpretation but you make a reasonable case so I think it's fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 23:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Spotchecks:
 * - FN 7: Good idea, I see other sources confirming the deal on 20 May and 21 May. So it should be May. I pretty certain that Soccerway refers to the contract date. I'll change it to May 2010.
 * - FN 9: 25 league appearances, 28 appearances including cup and play-off appearances - hence "total appearances". Should I only mention league appearances? I have added a source to their league position.
 * I must be not reading the source correctly. The numbers I see are "1752	25	20	5	12	6	4	1	0	0" on the Emmen row.  Where are the three cup appearances? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 23:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You have to go to the folder that says "Domestic Cups" instead of "Domestic Leagues"
 * In Domestic Cups it says:
 * 21|1|0|1|0|1|0|0|0|0
 * 178|2|2|0|1|0|0|1|0|0
 * I hope that makes sense, or else let me know. WorldFootball.net might have a better overview. Bocanegra (talk) 17:05, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * - FN 36: As far as I can see from my sources, it was his debut for Roda JC?
 * Maybe Google Translate is screwing me up here. Can you quote the bit of the Dutch text that says that?  Then I can find that in the html. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 23:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You're right, the source doesn't mention that it's Vossebelt's official debut for Roda. However, it is the first matchday of the 2020–21 Eerste Divisie season (source: https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/niek-vossebelt/ned-eerste-divisie-2020-2021/roda-jc-kerkrade/3/). Bocanegra (talk) 17:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Let me know if there's anything else you need clarified, or something I can improve.
 * Thanks again. Bocanegra (talk) 21:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OK on FN 9; I thought I had to be missing something. Re FN 36, on second thoughts, since it's only four days later I think it's fine.  So given that what I thought were errors were my misunderstandings, I'm going to go ahead and pass this for GA now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 22:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OK on FN 9; I thought I had to be missing something. Re FN 36, on second thoughts, since it's only four days later I think it's fine.  So given that what I thought were errors were my misunderstandings, I'm going to go ahead and pass this for GA now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 22:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC)