Talk:Nigeria/Archive 1

I feel something needs to be said about the overwhelming number of scammers using Nigeria as their base, but I'm not sure whether the paragraph I just added is fair to Nigeria. Does anyone have any concrete information on just what makes the country so popular a choice with scammers? Brian Kendig 19:20, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * That'd indeed be quite interesting. One reason might be that Nigeria is a poor nation that has a lot of English speakers, but that can't be the only reason. This has been going on a long time, and the online form is only a modern incarnation. I wonder what the history of this is... Martijn faassen 19:43, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I notice a mistake on this site the Hausa are not @/3 of Nigeria population, and they are not 2/3 of Nigeria land too, Abiola Lapite is just a fraud. He is of Hausa tribe, given wrong information to the world. When in the world, 16% of a population equal 2/3 of a population. or 1/5 land space equal 2/3... Please note he is wrong. YorubaMan


 * YorubaMan, unfortunately the way you contribute (with personal attacks) is not really making it very likely that others will take you very seriously. In contrast, Abiola Lapite seems articulate and a lot more polite. You will be more convincing if you become more like him. Martijn faassen 19:43, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

With regards to the edits that YorubaMan insists on repeatedly inserting into the articles on Nigeria and the Yoruba, a few points need to be made.
 * The first is that there is no question that the former Northern Nigeria, the region that constitutes that portion of Nigeria above the Niger and Benue rivers, does indeed constitute 2/3 of the country's landmass.


 * The second point that needs reiterating is that in the 2/3 of Nigeria's landmass under discussion, the Hausa and the Fulani (originally separate groups, and still so elsewhere in West Africa, but increasingly merged in Northern Nigeria since the Sokoto jihad of Usman dan Fodio), do indeed constitute the dominant group. This is a point no serious individual could possibly dispute.


 * The third point that must be made is that there is not a *single* census in Nigeria's history that has ever put forward the claim that the Yoruba are the single largest ethnic group within that country, and to insist that the 1963 census (which, by the way, was just as disputed as all of those to follow, contrary to YorubaMan's claims) stated anything of the sort is simply a falsehood. The Hausa on their own were about the same in numbers as the Yoruba, while the Fulani consituted an additional 8 percent of Nigeria's population according to the census in question; the arithmetic is totally at variance with YorubaMan's claims, and this is one reason I labelled what he was doing propaganda.


 * The fourth point that must be taken into account is that this arithmetic is also supported by the CIA World Factbook's entry on Nigeria, which states that the Hausa/Fulani together constitute 30% of the country's population. It was to provide at least one source anyone could look up that I added a link to the Factbook page on Nigeria at the bottom of the article.


 * The fifth point that I must state is that calling others "frauds", and worse still, "Omo ale", "Ole" and "Oloriburuku" in the (evidently well-founded) hope that sysops, being non-Yoruba speakers, wouldn't pick up on just how abusive such language is, does not in any way mark one out as a constructive individual, while inserting the claim that the Hausa are "lazy" and "dirty" into the article about them is simply vandalism by Wikipedia's own definition of the term. For someone with whom I have no personal acquaintance whatsoever to accuse me of being "of Hausa tribe" is really quite astonishing, and I don't mean that in a good way; this is hardly the stuff of which credibility is made, is it?


 * The sixth point to be made is that creating an orphan entry for Odua republic, a term used only by Yoruba separatists, and then filling said entry with a duplicate of the stuff one wishes could have gone into the main article on the Yoruba, without in any way providing an indication that the very phrase Odua Republic isn't standard usage outside of an extreme minority, is as blatant a sign that one's intention is propaganda as it is possible to give. I'm doubtful people would be equally tolerant of someone creating an entry for a hypothetical Republic of Quebec and treating it as if it were an article about an actually existing political entity.

Taken as a whole, I'd say that the Wikipedia admins have erred well on the side of tolerance of YorubaMan's activities, too far in fact, and as an individual with other things on my plate I need to attend to, I'm not inclined to indefinitely put forward time and energy maintaining the integrity of articles in the face of insult and profanity-laden assaults by trolls and ethnocentric propagandists, and to treat YorubaMan and I as if we were equally of benign intentions is a notion I find quite risible. YorubaMan clearly can't string a grammatical sentence together, doesn't really comprehend English at all well (witness his continued misinterpretation of the sentence about the Hausa-Fulani), has displayed little evidence of understanding the concept of evidence-based argument, and really ought to have been blocked ages ago. I'd be most astonished if he were able to muster a reasoned defense of his actions that didn't rely on profanities and was backed by reference to some actual evidence anyone could look up. Abiola Lapite 11:42, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"The dominant ethnic group in the northern two-thirds of the country is the Hausa-Fulani"

Here is where I have problem with that page. I do believe the so call Abiola Lapite is a false,because Lapite is not a Yoruba name. I am Yoruba and I do believe no yoruba person would support fraud. The statement not true above.

There were census figure conducted and most of them, were incorrect. And this inaccurate fgure can not be use to determine Nigeria population. the 1988 census was never accepted, it was the 1963 census that is still been used. And the 1963 census put the Yoruba has the major ethnic group in Nigeria. I have live in Katsina. And travel wide and far in the state. There is not way that Kastina state can be more populated than Oyo state. I am not from Oyo state, by I have Also been to Oyo state. Ibadan only is 7 times the size of Katsina, but we have a census figure than says otherwise. Why should I accept that. there are only 5 secondary school in Kastina town and over 60 in Ibadan. Please check Unesco page for more information. there are only 884 village in Katsian and 2418 villages and town in OYo state. No town in Katsina state is has populated than Ogbomosho in Katsina state. I am willing to pay N100,000 to you and also pay for your trip to visit this two state and including accomodation and we would shoot video of the state and picture, and paste it on this site.

But just for now, let us use the 1988 census as a study point. Table 3. Number of Facilities Offering Family Planning Services or Supplies, by State and Population:

Abia   	2,297,978 Adamawa	2,124,049 Akwa Ibom 	2,359,736 Anambra	2,767,903 Bauchi		4,294,413 Benue		2,780,298 Borno		2,596,589 Cross River	1,865,604 Delta		2,570,181 Edo		2,159,848 Enugu		3,161,295 Imo		2,485,499 Jigawa		2,829,929 Kaduna		3,969,252 Kano          5,632,040 Katsina	3,878,344 Kebbi		2,062,226 Kogi		2,099,046 Kwara		1,566,469 Lagos		5,685,781 Niger		2,482,367 Ogun		2,338,570 Ondo		3,884,485 Osun		2,203,016 Oyo		3,488,789 Plateau	3,283,704 Rivers 	3,983,857 Sokoto		4,392,391 Tarabab	1,480,590 Yobe		1,411,481 Abuja FCT	378,671 NIGERIA TOTAL  88,514,501

If you had up the Hausa/fulani figure you have less than 30%. And to correct you there is no ethnic group like Hausa /fulani. They are seperate from each other. the fulani are less than 6 million. while the hausa are less than 18 million.

In land area the Hausa and fulani land area when combine is just 1/5 of the land Area. And your statement claim it is 2/3. Plateau,Adamawa, Niger, Kogi, Kwara, benue, borno, and Yobe are not fulani and hausa land.

so in term of land space, your statement is wrong, and also in term of population. Please note that the section on question is talking about population. I would I posted all the name of villages and town of katsina and Oyo state just to prove my point on this site. but I believe there is not need. YorubaMan


 * Well, there you have it. This self-appointed authority on all things Yoruba sees fit to tell me that I can't possibly of Yoruba ethnicity, and therefore I must not know what I'm talking about; how's that for convincing argument? The rest of his points are similarly underwhelming, as the only thing they illustrate is that his command of English is marginal at best. This guy is a troll, and if none of the admins care enough about accuracy to put an end to his activities, I'm throwing in the towel and moving on. Life is too short for this nonsense. Abiola Lapite 20:38, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * YorubaMan, you say that the "1988 census was never accepted" and that the data you are quoting is from the 1988 census. But the table you are quoting is from http://www.africa2000.com/PNDX/JHU-nigeria2.html, a web site about family planning which says that it includes the 1991 census data.  Also, the web site of the Federal Government of Nigeria uses the 1991 census data, as you can see here.


 * We use only official census data to provide numbers in geographic articles. Please tell us why you think the 1991 census is not accepted. silsor 00:46, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

There is indeed a long history in Nigeria since 1963 of falsifying census data for political and other advantage. Allegations have long existed in Southern Nigeria that the Hausa dominated muslim north has systematically inflated census figures in order to increase the political representation and funding for the area, and to maintain northern dominance. Many experts consider some of these allegations to be well-founded. xandar


 * Are there some references for this? Anyway, if we can find some expert confirmation for this we could add a short piece of text saying that the census figures are under some debate. Martijn faassen 23:05, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Population Figures
More accurate population figures can be found here: http://www.onlinenigeria.com/population/ It has the Distribution of the 1991 Population by States in Nigeria and gender. Hope it helps.

Advance fee fraud
In asnwer to Martijin's question of the history of Nigerian "419" Advance fee fraud, this was perfected (in large part in Lagos) by Nigerians preying on other Nigerians, and once faxes became common, in the U.S. This has been going onfor decades, and only with e-mail has it become so well known. Millions of dollars are lost every year, but the Nigerian Government does make an effort to recover the funds, and in fact do every year.


 * Interesting. Any references to websites with more info on the early history? I knew it'd been going on for quite a while, as this fraud has been coming in by surface mail for years (at least my father says he received snail mail along these lines years ago). I imagine faxes sped it up quite a bit, and email again radically so. Martijn faassen 20:57, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Major Cities in Nigeria
Currently the list includes "Abuja, Lagos, Abeokuta, Ibadan, Port Harcourt." Abeokuta is a relativly minor city, and Kano, and Jos, and possibly Katsina should be added. These are major cities in the northern region, as well as ancient sites of cultural relevance. Jos, as an aside, is short for "Jesus Our Savior." And a relativly recent city.

I would disagree with you, Abeokuta is more populated than Katsina.. and Jos...

FOR MARTIJn

Here is a prove of the fruad commited in the census


 * Evidence, arguments; one can only prove things in mathematics. Thank you for this information! I'm not sure how to evaluate this by myself; can anyone else comment? Martijn faassen 20:57, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

1988 census was wrong, Here are the correct figure below

Let us see the figure

Katsina State(hausa) 3,878,344 with 24192 sq Km,land area

Kano state(hausa) 5.6m with land 20,760 Sq. Km land area

Oyo State(Yoruba) 3,488,789 with 28454 sq km land area

From this figure IBB claim that Kano and Katsina are more populated than Oyo state. That is not true. From above you can see that Oyo state has more land space than Kano and katsina.. Please note the second biggest city in Nigeria is Ibadan in Oyo state, after lagos(yoruba).

To back up our claim here are the villages and town in Katsina, Kano and Oyo.

Katsina state has 899 villages and town

Kano state has 1141 villages and town

Oyo state has 2135 villages and town.

Here below are name of villages and town and cities in Katsina, Kano and Oyo state

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/nigeriakatsina/

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/nigeria/Nigeriakano

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/nigeriaoyo/

Northern Towns.

Here is example of IBB claim. example is bebeji town, IBB claim this town have 58,000 people, Please see this town and tell me if it as 58,000.

http://www.hausavoices.com/pictures/bbj.htm

http://www.hausavoices.com/cards/village.jpg


 * I see these images, but it is not hard to get rustic scenery from most larger towns at the outskirts, and it is to be expected nostalgic and tourist pictures will show such rustic parts. Quite apart from that, wikipedia is not aiming to our own personal evaluations in these articles, but to summarize and discuss existing data and opinions. Martijn faassen 20:57, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

http://www.motherlandnigeria.com/pictures/new_post10.jpg

http://www.motherlandnigeria.com/pictures/traditional_granery_in_north.jpg

http://www.motherlandnigeria.com/pictures/herdsman2.jpg


 * These seem to be picturesque pictures of northern nigeria. I can hunt up picturesque pictures of the Netherlands too, but that doesn't show there are not 15 million people living here. Martijn faassen 20:57, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

They refuse to allow a National ID card because it was going to carry on it picture, Can you believe that.


 * I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Could you explain? Martijn faassen 20:57, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/nigeria/nigeria54.html http://www.centralstate.edu/africanstudies/ed092794.html http://allafrica.com/stories/200404270711.html http://www.newint.org/issue337/profile.htm
 * Articles on Census inaccuracies in Nigeria:


 * These articles are very interesting, thanks! Here's my summary and some analysis.


 * The first one indicates the 1991 census is a new attempt that hopefully will help clear up matters.


 * The second article is written a few years after the 1991 census and states that the previous census was wrong, but the one in 1991 is assumed to be correct. And implies it was influenced by regional distribution of money by population count, which would encourage inflating figures. Didn't we include figures of the 1991 census?


 * The third article is written recently and is talking about the buildup to a new 2005 census to update the figures of 1991. It talks about how such census is often seen as a popularity contest.


 * The fourth and last article summarizes the whole issue as such: "Census figures are hotly contested because, given the ethnically polarized state of Nigerian society, the various regions have always tried to massage population figures to ensure that they have a greater say in how political and economic largess is dispensed."


 * It seems this debate has spilled over onto wikipedia.


 * My recommendation is that we put something about the census controversy on the main page. The total population figure seems to be disputed according to the second article (I do not know if the current numbers are controversial though). In particular it seems clear that regional figures are also debated. The 1991 census seems to be less controversial than earlier ones, but perhaps I evaluate this wrong. Do I understand it correctly that it has regional figures?


 * I would also say we can't conclude anything from the controversy of the census; we certainly can't come up with new numbers of our own. We should still base our data on the best census available, but we should mention that this is debated. Martijn faassen 20:57, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

ABOUT THE CENSUS FIGURE

Mr Martijn faassen, the 1991 is controversial, in one of the links provider, you can see that THE UNITED NATION, did not believe the 1991 population figure, because Nigeria claimed that Nigerian did not have baby for about a year and that 5 million death rate in only year... So the figure is not acceptable....

You see take for example Katsina state, In today Katsina state there are only 899 villages and towns in the state, but another state with a nearly three times the number of villages and towns and which also contain the second largest cities in Nigeria is said to be less populated ... you see ... Ibadan is at lease seven the size of katsina city, .. and when you put together the first biggest cities in Katsina, they can not cover the same land space as Ibadan... This is record of fact and figure..... You can drive for more than 1 hour in katsina and you would never meet any villages and person. Katsina state is inside the famours Sahara desert, ( please type Katsina on google.com and you see the result...))Read article one of the people that live in the desert..

http://www.mtrustonline.com/dailytrust/shelterbelt08102003.htm

It is only in Nigeria where about 50 million is said to leave in the desert. there is no other country. It is only in Nigeria, that there are more people living in the desert than in tropic region...

I have live in this desert, the place is unhuman suitable to live and very few people live there..I am telling you from my experience... It is like living in the northern region of canada, Nanuvat...very few people live there. Now imagine the people of Nanuvat claiming, that they are more than the people in ontario which have better weather..for political motive and will you believe that.

Climatic conditional affect population, it is only in nigeria that unfavour Climatic condition increases population...


 * Any progress on the census debate?

YorubaMan

yes here is a progress I have a website of the Nigeria postal service for you.. I just want to show how incorrect the above census figure and past figure have been. In 2003, the Nigeria postal service had to code all street , town and villages in nigeria...

And you would see from their website that the Hausa/fulani villages and town .. can not justify their so call population.. cities like lagos with about 7000 street is said to have about the same population with cities like kano with only about 500 street.. that is what is wrong with Nigeria.. while a city like ogun state with over 4000 town, villages is said to be less populated than katsina state with 889 villages.. Please when on the site take note of the number of street in katsina and compare with the number of street in Ijebu ode, sagbamu or other street in Ogun state...

Please also see the over 3000 of villages and town in Kwara state ( another yoruba state ) and compare with Jigawa state 825 villages and town., please note the street.. and compare, while they claim that Kwara is 1.5 million, and Jigawa was 2.7 million.. Ilorin is over 0.5 million.. Ilorin have a total of 36 high school.. while the capital of jigawa which is the larger of the town in the state has only 4 high school..

Please note also Ondo, Ogun, Oyo, Lagos, Kwara,Osun , Ekiti and west part of kogi are Yoruba please do the calculation in term of the number of villages , town and cities..

While the hausa/fulani portion is Jigawa, kano, kebbi, katsina, Bauchi, zamfara. sokoto, Gombe and North part of Kaduna state.

Please count the number of street on each state, all major cities are included... The others state are minority state..

Please that the head of the nigeria postal service is an hausa fulani. but he still put up this name of villages and street.

http://www.nigpost.com

Also, could someone put in a link to Nigerian Civil War ?

xandar

Machetes?
In the article machete, an anonymous user made the following edit 4 months ago:
 * The Nigerian Armed Forces have been reviewing the possibility of using the Machete as their standard weapon in their new conscript army of 5,000,000 troops.

This seems to me to be rather improbable. Hopefully someone watching this article may know: is there any likelihood that this may may be true? Securiger 08:59, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Coat of Arms
I did a double take, having not been to Nigeria since 1985. Apparently, the national Motto has changed since then. The coat of arms on this page shows the old one. It needs to be changed. Please see the current one on the government's website. &mdash;iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 00:15, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

To know more about the the Nigeria Coat of arms see the article "National Symbols" at http://www.onlinenigeria.com/links/adv.asp?blurb=72

[]

OnlineNigeria.com: The black shield represents the fertile soil while the silvery bands denote the Niger and Benue rivers which form the main inland waterways in the country. The coctus spectabifis is a colourful flower which grows wild in Nigeria. The eagle stands for strength and the chargers symbolise dignity. The national mott originally "Peace, Unity, Freedom" was changed the to "Unity and Faith, Peace and Progress" in 1978.

Africa-related regional notice board
I have created Africa-related regional notice board. &mdash;iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 05:41, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Lagos clarity
There's a discussion going in the Lagos discussion page about reorganizing and/or clarifying the entries for Lagos and Lagos State. I wanted to post this here so others could participate.

British Protectorate
I noticed that the date for becoming a protectorate has been listed in both 1900 and 1901 for January 1. Other web resources lean toward 1900, but I don't think it's conclusive enough for me to jump in and edit the Nigeria page or the yearly almanac pages, since I know not much about this topic.

Map
A controversy has erupted over the choice of map for this article. The two candidates are shown here, along with any others that other Wikipedians may choose to enter. Feel free to make any comments. The lower map may also appear in the corresponding Geography article for this country. Kelisi 16:38, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)



The lower one will of course be reduced, but could be enlarged by clicking. Kelisi 16:38, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For various Nigeria Maps at OnlineNigeria.com, see http://www.onlinenigeria.com/maps/ You have maps from 1900 to the present.

I've made a new one whose resolution is a bit higher. I shall tentatively place it in the Geography of Nigeria article to see whether it creates a furious uproar. If not, it is a more detailed map. I hope it goes over well. Kelisi 23:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Article Damian Ohanyido Okoli needs verification
The article Damian Ohanyido Okoli (1932-1998) has been referred to Votes for deletion mainly because it hasn't been independently verified. If anyone has source information for anything in this article (particularly the basic facts of the man's life), could you please have a look at the article and edit it? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 21:10, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Intro
the introduction states that Nigeria is the world's most populous 'black' country. true, however and this may seem mundane and not worth mentioning but .. the term 'black' seems loaded and if i may intellectually misleading. black does not neccessarily mean African. i havent come across a blacker person than vijay singh, perhaps except john garang - but thats neither here or there. would 'the world's most populous African nation' not seem more proper? franz fanon


 * I agree. It is a Western perspective. The term Blacks is often used in the West (from Blacks). I'm going to be bold and delete it. If revived, it should link to Blacks. Dosai 19:05, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Link to AbujaMobile.com
the link to abujamobile.com has been moved to [Communications in Nigeria], where it should be, because abujamobile is a pure mobile phone forum. Please note.

Link to AbujaMobile.com
the link to abujamobile.com has been moved to Communications in Nigeria, where it should be, because abujamobile is a pure mobile phone forum. Please note.

Poverty in the country is extensive and appears to be increasing in scale and depth.
removed "Poverty in the country is extensive and appears to be increasing in scale and depth" no concrte evidence to support this claim.

you have to be joking? The only debatable thing about that statement is whether it is increasing.

Niger and Nigeria? I thought they were the same country
Wikipedia has different articles for them and they each sound different, but the last time I saw a map there was just "Niger" and sometimes it's called "Nigeria." Perhaps wikipedia may have misinformation. Can anyone clarify this for me? JeremyJX 15:59, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

You might want to check your map again. Nigeria (Federal Republic of Nigeria) was a former British colony which gained independence in 1960. It is on the Atlantic coast. The capital is Abuja (moved from Lagos in 1991). Niger (Republique du Niger) is north of Nigeria in the Sahara desert. It also gained independence in 1960, but from France. The capital is Niamey. Dystopos 17:22, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Cities_in_Nigeria
hey brian look here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Cities_in_Nigeria