Talk:Nigger/Archive 6

Greater prominence for 'nigga' topic?
First I'd like to say I'm quite pleased with how effectively this topic is addressed, both here and in the 'nigga' article. While I agree with the consensus against merging the two (above), I wonder whether anyone would agree that the link to the 'nigga' page demands a numerous place of prominence here, possibly in the introduction? The 'nigga' term is obviously, a now-popular derivative of 'nigger', and I would disagree that it has at least as much significance in modern society, due if nothing else to it's pervasive use in rap music and the significant position that genre occupies. Though I don't off-hand know of any surveys of the term's ubiquity in modern popular music, I would imagine documentation of that fact could be provided, even if through links to lyrics of many of the top-charting songs of the past couple decades — though I suspect such an approach might be considered original research? Any thoughts on this? Walkersam (talk) 11:38, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

N-word
I'm old enough to know the term "N-word" way predates the OJ Simpson trial. There's no citation in the article. 216.232.242.7 (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Seriously?
"Contemporaneously black Americans use the word nigger, often spelled in eye dialect as nigga and niggah, without irony, to either neutral effect or as a sign of solidarity.[11]"

I'm sorry but I certainly agree with a previous entry that this entire thing is quite obviously written by white Americans with an agenda to frame this word in a way that is convenient. It's sad unfortunately that some people actually come to Wikipedia looking for truly objective information and this article is not even close. Do you seriously think as a Caucasian you can state that black Americans use the word nigger as nigga or niggah? Who told you this? How many African Americans did you interview in preparation for that statement? This is sickening and disgusting how you seek to legitimize this racism in the manner which you have decided to employ.

I Motion that the title of this article be changed to "The Word Nigger As Understood And Expressed By Caucasians"

This is disgusting 76.110.24.103(talk)
 * Ok genius, read this link, FROM THE ARTICLE, written by, yes, a black man. http://www.arthurkspears.com/papers/n-word.pdf

Asher196 (talk) 17:45, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Nigga please.Docsavage20 (talk) 11:11, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

oh well that solves it! Especially since it's written by a black man. I wish someone had explained that to me and my family and friends long ago. Maybe, had we known this, we'd have acted and spoken accordingly. The point is Mr. Brain, it's a generalization and had it been written to implicate as such, it would be taken as such, but I assure you that the use of the word "nigger", "nigga", or "niggah", is not used and has never been used in many African American circles. I could go, but then what would be the point? 03:51, 14 February 2011 User:76.110.24.103
 * The point is, you were going off on a rant about how this article is written by white people who don't know what they are talking about, when in fact you really have NO IDEA who is contributing to this article. I actually agree with what you are saying, but if you disagree with the sourced content in the article, then add sourced content to the article that backs up what you are saying.  I'm not saying your are right or wrong, just that we can't add whatever we want here.  Content has to be backed up by WP:RS.  Other than that, there is nothing stopping YOU from contributing to, or changing this article.Asher196 (talk) 14:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This is not a fourm for you to vent about the article and make unfounded/irrelevant accusations. If you have a problem with the article please present it constructively. Making accusations that this was written only by caucasians will get you no where. This specific reference is cited. You have not presented anything that is cited. If you are going to contradict something back it up. 98.127.120.45 (talk) 22:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I see no basis for disputing that the word "nigga(h) is used by many blacks. There are referances to its use and its actual use in movies, standup monologues and anyone with an open ear can hear it frequently used in predominantly black communities. A dispute of this kind is as silly as disputing that many people use the word "dude".98.164.91.184 (talk) 02:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Barbara, that makes no sense whatsoever.--Asher196 (talk) 15:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, I just wanted to add to the stupidity. BarbaraMervin (talk) 18:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

intent?
I find this passage odd:
 * British English, nigger is now a derogatory and racist word. However, earlier, together with the original form of negro, the word was used without derogatory intent. For example, Victorian writer Rudyard Kipling used it in 'How the Leopard Got His Spots' and 'A Counting-Out Song' to illustrate the usage of the day. Likewise, P. G. Wodehouse used the phrase “Nigger minstrels” in Thank You, Jeeves (1934), the first Jeeves–Bertie novel, in admiration of their artistry and musical tradition. As recently as the 1950s, it was acceptable British usage to say niggers when referring to black people, notable in mainstream usages such as Nigger Boy–brand

First, the exampls provided do not illustrate intent, they only illustrate that the usage was common. Common usage implies nothing about intent. In fact, I am not so sure that intent is the issue. What makes the word offensive was the fact that Whites could address Blacks using this word, directly, when Blacks could not use equivalent words to directly address Whites. This is a perfect illustration of a racist situation. The person using the word does not have to personally intend to insult another individual. Racism is about collective inequalities, not personal insults. I understand the words can b used with conscious intent as a personal insult. I am just saying that what makes this so different from other personal insults is the way the term operated in the context of major inequalities between blacks and whites. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 18:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

It is not for us to interpret how Kipling used language. If anyone wants to suggest that in his work "nigger" did not at the time index racial superiority and oppression, fine - just so long as you can provide a reliable secondary source to support the claim. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 14:46, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree, and would like to see some actual scholarship here. I contend that the word "Nigger" as used by whites (whether English or American in any era) was always derogatory, although definitely commonly used, and without the public censure that would be routine today.  Even in the heyday of black subjugation, many whites objected to the use of the world "Nigger" as they might to other racial slurs, even those who more-or-less accepted the horrific treatment of blacks in their own era.  Again, though, we'd need actual historians to verify my conjecture here, but I don't think anyone who's widely read in history or literature would disagree. StrangeAttractor (talk) 04:23, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

I'd have to side with the OP here. At least regarding Kipling, a strong case can be made that much of his work had racist tones (see "The White Man's Burden", etc.). I couldn't claim with any certainty that this can be extrapolated to say that nigger was definitely never used without derogatory intent, but I would suggest that better examples be cited if possible. Nyxtia (talk) 04:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

suggestion
could someone please add this example:


 * Italian: nero or di colore (coloured) is neutral, negro is mainly considered as racist.

to the list in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.51.20.166 (talk) 16:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

and Korean maybe too?: "흑인" ("black person") is neutral, "검둥이" ("blackie") is perjorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.123.96.202 (talk) 16:04, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, in the part of spanish meaning, the word "negrito" could be used as a pejorative term, but also as a diminutive of the word "negro", so negro=black and negrito=blacky. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.138.217.74 (talk) 19:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Lauradalrymple, 30 June 2011
The road referred was not known as "Nigger Grade" but was known as "Nigger Nate Grade". Your cite 64 references the correct name of the road, but the article does not. The road goes up Palomar Mountain to the observatory, ande went past his cabin.

"Nigger Grade", near Temecula, California, named for Nate Harrison, an ex-slave and settler, was renamed "Nate Harrison Grade" in 1955, at the request of the NAACP.[64]

Lauradalrymple (talk) 19:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Add this? (Sweden)
In Sweden the word svart (black) is neutral, neger (negro) is often seen as moderately racist to some but not to all, nigger (nigger) is never used and is seen as EXTREMELY harsh.
 * Sources? Artem Karimov (talk) 20:14, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

You live in a fantasy world if you think Swedes do not use the word nigger.

Note : IMHO, this discussion seem to have bumped on cultural missunderstandings : the use of the word "nigger" in Sweden is indeed extremely rare, given 1) the strong racist & pejorative meaning and 2) the deeply "liberal" and the "politically correct" culture of Norvegian politics (which does not say that xenophobia is not present, which is, in this case and IMHO, different from base racism) and 3) in the low number of black-looking people versus the number of causasian or arab immigrants. For the sake of Enclyclopedic NPOV, I suggest the following comment : "In Sweden the word svart (black) is neutral, neger (negro) is often seen as somewhat racist to some but not to all, nigger (nigger) is almost not used and is seen as extremely racist". JanvonBismarck (talk) 12:35, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Again, you have either never lived in Sweden (or Finland, for that matter); are so pc yourself that you are self-insulated from Swedish racism and move in small (and liberal) circles; or simply wish to promote the created-identity which liberal Swedes care so much about in an attempt to influence rather than inform. I have lived in either Sweden (Malmo) or Finland (Espoo) for much more than a decade, and have heard many, many people use "nigger" and other racial epithets quite commonly. PC and multicultural ideology is dominant in the Swedish educational system and media, but that doesn't mean all Swedes buy into it. It's not Alabama; but there are plenty of Swedes who are quite racist and who joke about such things. Get real.

Additions to definition
I think someone needs to add Potato Nigger to this article. It refers to people of Irish descent. 94.8.76.2 (talk) 12:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Inclusion of nignog
I believe that nignog needs to be included in this article for informational purposes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.17.148.197 (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Well than you must be a very stupid person. 24.60.214.65 (talk) 19:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The article is about an offensive word. If "nignog" is a word of similar derivation and similar meaning, perhaps it should be mentioned in passing.  I don't see why suggesting so is a priori evidence of racism. (I've never heard of the word before today, so I have very little opinion about whether it is notable or relevant enough to mention.) Phiwum (talk) 02:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Go google, you will find from the urban dictionary, the following:

''This phrase [nig nog] has absolutely _no_ racial dimension, despite appearances. It is a Northern British (e.g. Yorkshire) term referring to a silly person. It does not derive from nigger and should not be considered racist at all.''


 * Seems there is an association with 'egg nog' [the drink]...82.46.139.31 (talk) 19:44, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Gilbert and Sullivan
This has no bearing on the use of the word in question, merely to cleaning up references within the article. I am merely changing the title references to the songs from Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Mikado" to reflect their proper names and provide the link to their wikisource lyrics. StavinChain (talk) 16:39, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 50.29.133.207, 29 September 2011
I am a sociologist. My name is JD Smith. The term Bleach Nigger is a term established in approx. 2003-2009. In current times most of thinking society realize the term nigger means: A) a low class, non thinking person [w/o regard to race]. It has also been used to mean: B) "My brother" [ Also, to thinking sociey not in regard to race]. Con't. Used as a person who is liked by his peers. In addition: Usually an overly silly, possibly charismatic type. Bleach nigger is specifically under one of the above definitins except a person of European descent/pink person;[formally/usually called white complexion skin tone]. How used in a sentence-- After the Long Island kid did the spoken word/rap,some fellas said, "That [bleach] nigger's raps are tight." Varification--JD Smith/ Consumer Advocate,Sociologist... contact info: (Redacted)

50.29.133.207 (talk) 21:58, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this a serious request? If so, this is not how Wikipedia works.  If there is truly such a term, then it may be appropriate to add it to the article if reliable sources can be found to back up the claim.  See WP:RS.--Asher196 (talk) 02:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

audio file
there is an audio file available, also would someone add the link?Acdcrocks (talk) 07:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 10 October 2011
By the 1900s, nigger had become a pejorative word. In its stead, the term colored became the mainstream ...

This isn't true, what is being stated here is opinion/fact from the perspective of the USA. The Jim Crow laws etc and their white/colored split does not apply to the rest of the world!

This should be amended to "In it's stead, in the USA the term colored"...

94.193.11.45 (talk) 19:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Please give references and re-request. See WP:V  Chzz  ► 00:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

French meanings
In French, nègre also stands for ghost writer. Wouldn't this be a valuable addition to the "Uses" sections of the article?

I do confirm that nègre does indeed stand for ghost writer. However, unless I am mistaken, this article is on the concept/name 'Nigger', and not on other languages,. Anyways, nowadays French do use (less and less due to political correctness) the word nègre for ghost writer without (in the overwhelming majority of cases) any racial connotation (I know this might seem strange to US wikizens, whether white or black, with or without dots). In any case, I do believe that this should not be mentionned in this article, but only in the French matching wiki page. JanvonBismarck (talk) 12:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Romanian meanings
"cioroi" is the augmentative of "cioara" (crow) and thus is the exact opposite of "little crow": "big crow". it is also the word for a male crow. http://dexonline.ro/definitie/cioroi

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.137.245.9 (talk) 19:18, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

The portmanteau word wigger (white + nigger) denotes an adolescent white boy?
In the Homophones section, it says that the word wigger denotes an adolescent white boy (who emulates "street black behavior")... as far as I know, adult white males can also be considered wiggers. Also, I've seen the word wigger being used to refer to females who emulate "street black behavior". So yeah, this definition of wigger needs to be altered a bit IMO. PrintedScholar (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Has been fixed. Gorgak25 (talk) 10:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

African Burial Ground National Monument
Please fix link from African Burial Ground to African Burial Ground National Monument. Thanks in advance. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 14:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 January 2012
Within the section named "Cinema", we should add a reference to the movie titled "The Dam Busters" made in 1955. In that movie, a principle character has a beloved black dog whose name is "Nigger". It is spoken many times throughout the movie.

98.155.18.53 (talk) 21:38, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There is already a whole section about the film: Nigger. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 22:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Estonian meaning
To be added to the list of "Other languages":


 * Estonian: "neeger" is neutral (in some specific contexts it is used jokingly, e.g. "IT-neeger"); however, due to pressure from English-speaking world, "must" (dark/black), "mustanahaline" (black-skinned) and "tumedanahaline" (dark-skinned) are often adopted in mainstream media.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemecec (talk • contribs) 08:54, 15 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Wikipedia is not a reliable source since everybody is able to edit it! mabdul 13:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh well, copied sources from that page. --Nemecec (talk) 16:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Please do not edit posts, it makes it difficult to follow the conversation. Can you clarify what sort of reference the second reference is? It seems like it might be an editorial or opinion piece. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 03:27, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Second reference is an article in Sirp (http://www.sirp.ee/), an Estonian-culture-oriented newspaper. The article analyzes usage of the "neeger" word in Estonian daily newspapers - as such, it is not really an "opinion article". Nemecec (talk) 10:12, 21 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Since you are registered and have been editing for over four days, you can edit this yourself after making four more edits. That way is probably the best, Celestra (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Hungarian edit req 21 Mar 2012
Article claims with no citation that the word feka means "little black one" and is pejorative. It is absolutely incorrect and shall be removed.

First, the word feka is a slang expression, derived from fekete ("black") and means simply "black" and is used only for humans (it is never used to describe the color of objects or animals). It has nothing to do with "little", either. Second, the word feka is neutral, even it is used in complimentary contexts. Note that the quality of this neutral word heavily depends on actual context and situation.

To present a definitely pejorative term, the section should include the word nigger which is somewhat adopted as a racist slur, and is sparsely used by extremists, mostly in commenting related news.

Suggestion: in the Usages/Other languages section, please replace the Hungarian reference with this:

Hungarian: néger is neutral, nigger is adopted as racist.

Thanks for your assistance. a native Hungarian reader

Featured Article
What would have to be done to this article to get it to FA status, I'd like to think that over 60 years we have come to a point we can examine our history and see how far we've come.
 * <3 ♥ Solarra ♥  ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀ 04:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The only real issue here seems to be the tags. Other than that...it's actually pretty decent. Maybe nominating for GA first...? Not sure  Cyan  Gardevoir  (used EDIT!) 10:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Is there any problem with Boss Nigger or what?
ts not in the film section. --Niemti (talk) 09:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * A more likely option is that no-one decided to add it in ;) Cyan  Gardevoir  (used EDIT!) 10:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

"Niggardly" hatnote
I removed the unnecessary hatnote, "Not to be confused with niggardly". My change was reverted "because they sound similar". It is quite an insult to our readers to insinuate that they need to be told that two completely unrelated words shouldn't be confused with eachother. What do others think? Joefromrandb (talk) 18:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Why would anyone get insulted? Consider the article niggardly, which redirects to Controversies about the word "niggardly", in which the lead says In the United States, there have been several controversies concerning the word "niggardly," an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly," due to its phonetic similarity to the racial slur "nigger."  The two words are etymologically unrelated. suggests that despite being etymologically unrelated there have been issues of confusion between nigger and niggard.  The hat in this article clearly states the disambiguation. Fasttimes68 (talk) 18:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You've basically made my point for me. Typing in "niggardly" will take someone to that article, not this one. And by "insult to our readers" I meant "insult to our readers' intelligence". Joefromrandb (talk) 18:48, 24 Ju>ly 2012 (UTC)
 * After reviewing my edit summary, it seems I typed "entymology", rather that "etymology". The irony. That's what disambiguators are for. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:04, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the terms are tangently related, as evident by the controversey. Keeping the hat merely points out that relevancy. Fasttimes68 (talk) 19:29, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Joefromrandb on this, it doesn't seem necessary as a hatnote. Niggardly is already discussed in Nigger, so the hatnote seems redundant and unnecessary, and the word doesn't seem to be common enough to be often confused. ( Also, etymology can be confusing, I do it too) - SudoGhost 06:13, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I removed the hat per SudoGhost's comment. Fasttimes68 (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Refers too much to nigger
I see the term "nigger" being like the term "gay", because gay used to mean "happy" and nigger generally meant "ignorant person", a term made by whotes which the black took. The gay arricle definitely addresses the both happy and homosexual meaning, whereas this one focuses mainly on black people. I suggest a major rewrite. If anyone could leave me a message on my talk page and we could get together and start working on it I'd be thrilled. 72.230.135.196 (talk) 13:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

While others may think differently, there is a wide margin of difference between a nigger, and a African person. Anyone can be a nigger, despite their race, color or creed. "Those girls across the street are total niggers."

"Martin Luther King Jr. was a black man; the drug dealer on the corner is a nigger."
 * The word "nigger" clearly derives from negro and always has had a racial connotation. It did not start out meaning "ignorant person" independently of a reference to race.  In this respect, it is not much like "gay".  Phiwum (talk) 12:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

The newest definition to the word nigger : Contrary to popular belief, a nigger is a person who: Is loud, ignorant and annoying. Ghetto, smells like shit, and is almost 100% uneducated. They love to complain, but don't get off their lazy asses to do anything about it. Many of them are also fat. Refer to urban dictionary under number 49 Phiwum (talk) 12:44, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Neger
'Neger' is definitely not a neutral word in Dutch language. If you would call an African a 'neger' he or she would feel offended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.195.52.99 (talk) 19:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Nigger Rig derivative
Don't know if it can be added to this page or not. Nigger Rig definition- to fix something temporarily, or to rig something up in order to make it work, often compromising safety. (not a good definition, maybe you can find something more prossional?) Also called African Engineering. 06:32, 6 November 2012‎ User:98.231.60.118

Niggerdom
I don't see Niggerdom anywhere. I was going to add it to reference something that is encompassed (perceived or otherwise) by an african/black spehere of influence. As said by Dave Chapel "I am not in any way shape or form involved in any niggerdom!" PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 21:19, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Funny skit, but I disagree that a reference to it belongs in the article. --Onorem♠Dil 21:29, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Homo/Hetero: The Struggle for Sexual Identity” (Harper’s, September 1970) would disagree with you disagreeing with me. It speaks of "Niggerdom among men". It is an essay by Joseph Epstein. Will you be changing it back or would you like me to do it? PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 22:49, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I will not be changing it back. --Onorem♠Dil 23:00, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You're going to need to provide some source showing that it's relevant to the article's subject. If some third-party sources has commented on the use of the word and how it relates to this article's subject then it would be relevant, but if nobody thinks its important enough to even mention, Wikipedia should not either. - SudoGhost 17:13, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Music: Rock n' Roll Nigger
The song "Rock n' Roll Nigger" by Patti Smith should be noted in this article under the Music category. It is serves as an example that the word nigger was used to identify a group of people of a broader label than blacks or African Americans; she refers to the word as if it means outcast. While it may sound overtly racist, reading the lyrics can make it clear that her use of the term refers to everyone. "Jimi Hendrix was a nigger.Jesus Christ and Grandma, too.Jackson Pollock was a nigger.Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger,nigger, nigger, nigger."

24.44.81.20 (talk) 08:20, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Costello
term is not used for the "working class soldiers" it is for the IRISH that they are oppressing!

who wrote that section?! 173.9.95.217 (talk) 00:51, 7 March 2013 (UTC)


 * You're right; it's been updated to make that more clear. StrangeAttractor (talk) 00:47, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 March 2013
In section "Usage - Other Language - Estonian", please correct boldface formatting to regular text; incorrect formatting appears to be accidental.

70.51.98.225 (talk) 13:57, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done Rivertorch (talk) 16:17, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

But wait!
A long time ago, when the word nigger was first invented, it was actually a neutral term!


 * RocketLauncher2 (talk) 03:07, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Usage history is a problem
I would like to say that the word "nigger" was was subscribed to Africans who were brought over to America as slaves, and not to Africans in their homeland ... I disagree that it was ever a neutral term. The 1976 edition (I believe) of the World Book Encyclopedia defined "nigger" as a black person so I beg to differ that the term was not derogatory in it's inception when related to early American slavery history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smibbert (talk • contribs)
 * Hi. Please sign your posts on talkpages. I'm afraid that the word nigger certainly was applied to black people in their homelands, and not only to those brought to America as slaves. Early uses of the word refer, for example, include "nigers of Aethiop" (from 1574) and "The King and People [of ‘Serro Leona’] Niggers, simple and harmless." (from 1608). Note that the spellings are odd because of the early date. At this point at least the term seems to have been fairly neutral too, or as neutral as a term can be given the hardly enlightened views of race that prevailed at the time. garik (talk) 00:16, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I would argue that the term "enlightened" in this context is a rather ignorant, and arrogant claim to make. At the end of the day, society was different back then, and just because we believe it wrong to refer to a black person as nigger today, doesn't mean it was taken as offensive by anyone back then. A word is a word, a definition is ascribed to it, and further social meaning applied to that. We have no place today to say that people of the past were wrong to use that word during the time of it's inception, if we are considering what the word means today, and not back then. I mean, in two hundred years time, they might think us barbaric for NOT using the term. Social and political correctness is as transient as the tides.


 * Additionally I'd also like to point out the terms kings/queens/princesses/princes/children of Africk, something which today would be considered a pejorative but at the time was used as a term of regard. Yes of course, it was also used as an insult, but much like calling someone who thinks highly of themselves, or is unduly demanding "Their Royal Highness".14.202.44.49 (talk) 08:54, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Louis CK
Previously there was a segment in the "N-word euphemism" section that had a long quote from a Louis CK comedy act as its only source. I removed the quote and noted CK's position on the N-word in the "comedy" section. A shorter quote from the act might be fine to add in if it can clarify his position further, but it looked like we were giving the bit an undue amount of real estate in its previous form and location. Breadblade (talk) 01:53, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Italian usage
Just wanted to post that in Italy negro is still widely used and not considered offensive (unless used in an offensive context/manner). In Lombardy (northern Italy region), the slang form of negro is niger, and it's widely used too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.79.252 (talk) 14:13, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

"Don't renig"
Is this necessary? I realize it's cited, but it seems trivial and misleading. Joefromrandb (talk) 03:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

My Most Recent Edit Reverted-Requesting Some EXPLANATION, please.
Hi, all,

I've recently added this section which was edited out ("reverted" by GB Fan.

In my opinion, it is pertinent & valid (as only one aspect) in a possible explanation as per the adoption or rejeection of the word by the African American community (which is NOT made of one big monolith, of course).

Could I receive some kind of feedback/comment as per removal?

I'd much appreciate & look forward to it,

Kind thanks,

AK63 (talk) 22:42, 20 August 2013 (UTC)AK63 08-20-2013 03:42pm PST
 * The edit summary that I left was more than "reverted". On the end of the edit summary it also said "unsourced essay".  That large wall of text below has no references.  The concept you present might be pertinent and have a place in the article, but the way it is currently written it does not belong.  No article should include the words "It is important to note" as you have written.  You need to start by finding reliable sources to verify the information and then rewrite according to what the sources say.  GB fan 23:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Pasting Copy of My REVERTED Edition (reversion by GB Fan)-as per previous post
Sorry, all, for having forgotten to include a copy of my addition/edition (for which I am seeking some feedback as per removal).

Please refer to it below. Thnak you.

It is important to note the general, diametrically-opposing psycho-social trends among African Americans in using the term. Due to its extremely heavy historical context & impact of years of physical, mental & emotional-abuse by the European slave-trading/owning collonizers, many people, among the African American community (& beyond) regard this word as a demeaning & derogatory word to a point of dehumanization (& so it is considered any time in use by a Non-African-American person toward any African American). However, when in use within the African American community itself-particularly the younger generation, this term appears to have taken the new meaning/nuance-the role of a term of endearment, when some African American individuals relate/refer to or interact with each other, this words takes the meaning of: "bro' "; "homie", etc...

One psychological explanation of this phenomenon would be denying, rejecting & disowning anything external which came from their racially-segregated societies & living environments &, which was ascribed or attached to them by their respective European slave-owning collonizers. The premise of this plausible theory is to neutralize whatever "power" this word inventors thought it may possess-a word which, later, came to be referred to, as: the 'N'-word. This word neutralization by means of "removal" of the negative (inhumane) energy in its core & completely reversing its meaning, to reflect the concepts: "a word is just a word! It does NOT make anything truer or less true...(until, we, humans, who have invented & used this word, respectively, attach a positive/negative content-context into it)".

Reversing the originally-ascribed meaning of the word & adopting its complete opposite meant "turning the word on its head" but also suggested a quiet rebellion-a verbal (language) revolt; by "adopting" or embracing its new ("reborn" or "reinvented") meaning. Having "neutralized" the NEGATIVE energy originally placed in the word has empowered some African Americans to feel that they have regained some control. And, this can be regarded as a most practical, ingenious/wise & appropriate manner of survival, under the circumstances & in light of this word's historical background. That "Word Association Reversal" or, "Word Role Reversal" phenomenon (which can be easily perpetuated & negatively enshrined into "a victim's role") has been applied (also, by many other social or ethnic groups of people) in classic cases of rebellion against injustice & abuse of power to suggest thinking-&-acting approaches such as: "from the ashes we rise"; "what doesn't break us makes us stronger" & "we are in control", manifest in using the same word invented by source A to be diffused & reintroduced in its complete opposite, by source B. Hence, if source A claims it is "night" & source B claims that it is "day", it can only suggest that one source is either lying, blind-so to speak, insane or all of the aforesaid. In the case of some African Amaerican, needless to say, it came to suggest that all afore-used attributes held real & very true, as per their European slave-"owners". --- AK63 (talk) 22:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)AK63 08-20-2013 03:46pm PST

O.J. Simpson not a footballer
I would like to suggest that in the paragraph under the heading "The N-word euphemism", where it refers to O.J. Simpson as a footballer, be changed to "football player". Footballer seems to be used exclusively when referring to soccer players, not American Football players. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.246.145.154 (talk) 19:04, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. Changed it. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:46, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Article name question
Hello, My name is Maxine and something interesting caught my attention. The word "Bitch" is noted and considered an insult by your standards "Bitch (Insult)", en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitch_(insult) which I agree with 100%. However, I noticed that the word Nigger en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger‎ is not. Even though in your definition, it states it as an "ethnic slur." So is an ethnic slur not an insult and or considered as such? As well as I am very curious on the process and who determines if a word here is an insult or not.

To me the word "Nigger" is an insult. In days of slavery the term "Nigger Bitch" was a common & used practice, to describe Black Women. Is this not derogatory and insulting? I would think the word should look like this on your site, "Nigger (Insult)." As it is even against the law to refer to someone as such today.

I am very interested in your input regarding this matter. Thank you.

Sincerely, Maxine A. Moncrieffe MaxMon1 (talk) 18:14, 21 October 2013 (UTC) 10/21/2013


 * Since we can't have more than one page with the same exact title we add disambiguator in the form a parenthetical word or phrase. The reason we don't have a disambiguator, (insult) after the title is that this is the primary meaning of the word.  In your example, the page bitch is a disambiguation page that refers to the many uses of the word, there is no primary topic.  In this case this is the primary topic and the disambiguation page is at Nigger (disambiguation).  There is no need for a disambiguator on this article.  GB fan 18:50, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The primary meaning of "Nigger" is Negro. So Maxine is correct--this article should be called something else. Since the word is not always an insult, instead of "Nigger (insult) I suggest "Nigger (Word)". 120.106.79.58 (talk) 01:42, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
 * So what would you do with this title Nigger, redirect to Negro?, redirect to Nigger (word)? create a page with some content? GB fan 01:59, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The primary known meaning of the word is an ethnic slur. I also see no need in the call for disambiguation.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 01:33, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The word Nigger, was never a neutral term.
I would like, rather than by 1) pouring through each of these books referenced, 2) finding where it was suggested that the term nigger was ever neutral, 3) picking apart that author's a) biography, b) geography, c) family, d) age, f) race, g) religion, h) culture, i) class sensitivity, j) education, and k) experience, 4) just to prove that the idea is as ludicrous, as it is dangerous, 5) and that it's impossible for him or her to make that claim unbiased, kindly be told, in which of these books does an author make this claim?

Because in no Time flat, I will kindly prove it to you. Believe me, you will get a letter. And, it will be lengthy.

Without references, but only because I wish you would ask, tell you now, that the term nigger is, and has always been derogatory. It's intention was both ludicrous, and dangerous, and has been largely effective. Over time, it has become common. It has become so common in fact, that most have become indifferent to it, and it's intention. And I don't mean recently, I mean biblically.

Bottom line: the statement is a mistake, made from nothing, or from ignorance at best. The rest of the article is also poor, but most people aren't here to learn anything anyway. I only felt obligated to ask that you remove the dangerous part. The rest of the article would continue on unfazed.

Worse than Hate, is indifference. Remove it; sincerely,

dfennel2

PS: See, nigga.

22:58, 16 November 2013‎ User:Dfennel2

For your information, Negro was seen as the proper way to adress them, "Darkies" being the offensive way. Before we know it, "black" will be offensive too. This world is full of shit.

Interesting revert
I added a definition for "nigger rich" that matched the meaning I recall from my childhood: spending money as fast as possible so as to get some value before it was stolen. The addition was:
 * Nigger rich, an economic behavior in which a person suddenly coming into some money endeavors to spend it all as quickly as possible. This behavior is rational when the spender is subject to frequent theft without effective recourse, as slaves and post-slavery blacks often were. The term is pejorative when applied to a person; usually the applier of the pejorative is one of or a member of the class of the thieves. The term contrasts with "nouveau riche", which is ostentatious spending to impress others but not in fear of loss, although the meanings are blending as outright theft has become less common.

The reverter asked for a citation; fair enough. So I did a Google and find that the only meanings at hand were essentially "nouveau riche" with varying helping of pejorative on top for garnish. No one was making the distinction of an economically valid reason for the behavior.

So the revert was correct; I could find no suitable citation. Nevertheless I feel that the behavior that the term describes is (was?) not in fact the same as nouveau riche, and that omitting the usage as I described it in fact makes Wikipedia accept the pejorative sense.

I have no solution. 07:00, 11 December 2013‎ User:Igodard


 * This is the problem when you have a group of people who write unbendable rules on what should be deemed worthy of being remembered and associated with the history of mankind. Ultimately a lot of things get lost, and while somethings are quite possibly best forgotten, a lot of things happen in sub cultures that is not reported on by what the same committee defines as a "reputable source" and as such, things which are important to that subculture is deemed not good enough for the populous as a whole. Welcome to Wikipedia.14.202.44.49 (talk) 09:02, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Latin "niger"
Currently, the article gives [ˈniger] as pronunciation for Latin niger. This would resemble "KNEE-gayrr" with a rolled r. However, as noted in Latin spelling and pronunciation, the short i was more open than a cardinal [i] (which can be inferred on the basis of the Romance developments alone, although epigraphic, i. e., inscriptional evidence supports it), just like an English short i, and the Latin short e was also open like in English, hence the correct pronunciation is [ˈnɪɡɛr], which is coincidentally almost identical to the pronunciation of modern English nigger if the r is trilled (as in Scottish English). Just saying ... --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:51, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Connotations
I agree that the term was probably originally neutral, and has become increasingly seen as derogatory. But like most derogatory terms, it has no meaning, as such. For instance I would question the implication that it is derogatory because "it suggested that its target is extremely unsophisticated." Furthermore I cannot see how the term Nigger can imply a lack of sophistication. Royalcourtier (talk) 00:10, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Royalcourtier, good point. I have changed the language accordingly--there were at least three weak spots in that strange sentence, starting with the word "it". Drmies (talk) 18:30, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Ancient use
I didn't see any correlation to Netger / NTGR / NGR, Niger, Neggur (Hathor), Negus (etc) and other forms of the same phonetics used by AFRICANS from ancient times with positive connotations. I didn't see enough emphasis placed on the effect and relationship this word has with the history of African oppression over the past few centuries. This deserves more than a few lines. I also disagree with having separate definitions for nigger and nigga. The implications of doing that are obvious and not a good idea to anyone other than white supremacists. thankyou

94.3.86.114 (talk) 17:14, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2014
Essencemarieee (talk) 01:03, 11 June 2014 (UTC) hi i would like to edit this its degraded to my people and thats not the difinition of the word.....nigga+naga=serpent...please i would love to edit this for my people
 * please explain what you want to change and provide reliable sources for your proposed changes. GB fan 01:05, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Wrong quote from Full Metal Jacket
"Gunnery Sergeant Hartman (R. Lee Ermey) says, "There is no racial bigotry here. We do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers, because here you are all equally worthless."

should actually be:

"Gunnery Sergeant Hartman (R. Lee Ermey) says, "There is no racial bigotry here. We do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers... Here you are all equally worthless."

RoninDusette (talk) 05:16, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

As you said, but he says "I", not "We". Fixed. Bromley86 (talk) 15:25, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-Protected Edit Request on 12/28/2014
Under the section heading Comedy, I propose the following change: "Some comedians, such as Lenny Bruce, have broached the subject"... etc. One of Lenny's groundbreaking routines addressed use of the term. I feel he should be referenced here, and it can be done without citation other than a link to his own Wikipedia entry.

Slur used in "Philippine-American War"
According to the wikipedia article on the derogatory term Gook, Gook (/ˈɡuːk/ or /ˈɡʊk/) is a derogatory term for Koreans. It was originally predominantly used by the US military during war time, especially during the Korean and Vietnam wars.[1]... The goo-goo term, whose origins are similarly uncertain, was first used in 1899 by US troops in the Philippine–American War,[5] although nigger was more prevalent.[6]

I have heard historians mention this, that the N word was used by U.S. troops to refer to people of the Phillippines. The article as you can see does cite one reference, [6], supporting the fact that the N word was also used, in fact, "more prevalently" used as the slur against peoples of the Philippines during that time, in fact linking to this article about the N word in the cited passage above.

However, I could not find any mention (in this article about the N word) to mention that the word was used against Filipinos or peoples of the Philippines.

It seems relevant and worthwhile to mention other people at whom the N word was directed. (I believe there are other peoples at whom the slur was directed, which could be added upon further citations, but that the Philippines is a major example, and given Wikipedia's page on the G-word above, it would make sense to add it here. Perhaps one of the regular editors of this page could do so) Harel (talk) 02:35, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I have lived in the Far East since 1979, and have never heard Filipinos or Filipinas described as niggers. I can't imagine who would ever think that such a term was appropriate nowadays, as their skin colour is brown, not black.  But I think that there may have been a time, perhaps back in Rudyard Kipling's day, when 'nigger' could be used to refer to an individual of any non-European coloured race.  George MacDonald Fraser makes Harry Flashman use the word in that sense on several occasions; whether he is accurately reflecting nineteenth-century usage, however, I hesitate to say.


 * On the subject of derogatory expressions, I remember hearing British servicemen several decades ago referring to the Hong Kong Chinese either as 'Bongs' or as 'Chogues'. These expressions seem to have been restricted to the armed forces, as I have not heard anyone else use them, and were used in jocular contexts.  They are interesting for a certain rarity value.  Does anyone know where either term comes from, and how long it has been in use?  'Bong' (Putonghua 'Bang') occurs in the local Cantonese dialect, and that may have suggested the name ...


 * Interestingly, and despite the erroneous belief among local Chinese that the word is still in use, I have NEVER heard the word 'Chink' used by foreigners in Hong Kong, despite frequent provocation. 'F--ing Chinese', yes, but never 'Chink'.  I think that represents a definite advance in ethnic sensitivity.


 * Djwilms (talk) 07:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Comedy on TV shows

 * In 1975, Richard Pryor and Chevy Chase spat during a word association test for a job application on Saturday Night Live comedy tv series. see http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/word-association/n8615


 * In 2004, skit name and family surname on Chappelle's Show comedy tv series. see http://www.cc.com/video-clips/mlg0y7/chappelle-s-show-the-niggar-family---uncensored

Jewish use of term "sand nigger"
No mention is given that the vast majority of Israeli citizens do not refer to Arabs as "sand niggers" and yet an example is shown (over stating the prevalence).

Mention is also made of "palestine" despite that not being the appropriate name recognized by the World for any area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.210.242.135 (talk) 15:28, 16 March 2015


 * I believe what you are referencing here is the picture that says "Israeli graffiti in Palestine referring to Arabs as 'Sand Niggers'". Saying that this image caption infers all Israeli's refer to Palestinians as sand niggers is the not the most well thought out    conclusion to make.


 * The debate on weather Palestine is a country is not relevant here. Replaceinkcartridges (talk) 05:05, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Are we to expect then that many others will likewise deduce from one example image that every Israeli (no one mentioned Jews) must use the term? If true, I would find it odd, but hardly our fault or responsibility. This is not about either group anyhow. It's about usage of the word nigger. And indeed, the region Palestine is a perfectly neutral term to use, regardless of recent bickering. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 21:57, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Comment on article perspective
It should be pointed out that the entire article regards the word "nigger" as spoken by white people. Black people use it regularly and sing about it, write about it oft. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.228.92 (talk • contribs) 02:50, 1 April 2015‎ (UTC)

breach, broach
§ Comedy says
 * Some comedians have breached the subject...

That confuses breach with broach:
 * Breach is ... a verb meaning (3) to make a hole or gap in or to break through.
 * Broach means (1) to make a hole in something, usually to draw off liquid, or (2) to bring up for discussion.
 * (Grammarist.com)

Changing to "broached". --Thnidu (talk) 05:47, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

"recognized" vs "regarded"
Looking at this part of a sentence on the page, " however, by the 1970s the term was generally recognized as racist, offensive and potentially illegal along with the unambiguously offensive "nig-nog", and "golliwog". "

I think "recognized" is probably a poor word to use in this situation given that the word can be interpreted differently by different readers, which means we're making assumptions about the reader and going against WP:EDITORIALIZING. I think readers could potentially interpret it either as "correctly understood as" or "regarded as," so I propose we simply change the word from "recognized" to "regarded." Also, calling something "unambiguous" in this context seems like a wp:npov violation. I think it'd be better to just completely remove "the unambiguously offensive" from the sentence.YesPretense (talk) 22:44, 24 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Here and here are the edits in question. I'm not particularly interested in discussing this; I simply wanted to revert you to note that the "recognized" bit you removed is not a WP:EDITORIALIZING violation. I noted this not only so that you got the answer to your question (the question in your initial edit summary), but so that others are clear on it. I cite the WP:EDITORIALIZING guideline often enough, and I understand it well. And like I also stated, "Feel free to revert me, since either wording is fine." You reverted me. Flyer22 (talk) 22:52, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

John Lennon
Some moron "reverted" (deleted) my addition -- within only a couple hours! -- of this sentence as "unsourced trivia," when Wikipedia itself is the obvious source, under the listing for "Woman is the Nigger of the World":

John Lennon performed the song "Woman is the Nigger of the World" on The Dick Cavett Show in 1972 with the band Elephant's Memory.

That was a petty and ignorant removal of a FACT, well-sourced, and directly related to the "Music" sub-heading in the article. It belongs there and demonstrates that the word "nigger" appeared on American television in the 1970's. Starhistory22 (talk) 13:17, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Per WP:RS, Wikipedia itself is not considered a reliable source.--Asher196 (talk) 15:42, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I reverted the edit because it had no sources at all and no indication why it should be included in the article other than the title of the song has the word nigger in it. We don't need things in this article just because they contain the word nigger.   -- GB fan 20:35, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

It is an interesting example of the use of the word in popular culture - I remember it getting quite a bit of radio play - might be worth using here in some form - if I get time. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:55, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Music: Other notable songs
Patti Smith's proto-punk classic Rock n' Roll Nigger (featured in the Pitchfork 500, a guide to the webzine's 500 best songs from "punk to present") and the Dead Kennedys' seminal Holiday in Cambodia each use the term caustically, as a critique of racism, and ought to be considered for inclusion in the list. The latter mocks privileged whites who feign identification with the black experience, unaware of their white privilege. "So you been to school For a year or two/ And you know you've seen it all/ In daddy's car/ Thinkin' you'll go far/ Back east your type don't crawl -- Play ethnicky jazz/ To parade your snazz/ On your five grand stereo/ Braggin' that you know/ How the niggers feel cold/ And the slums got so much soul" -- however, I don't know the editor's standards -- I'd think the Lennon song would likewise be instructive and worthy of consideration, but it appears it was bumped when added. Joeletaylor (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Redundant literary sections?
There is a "Literary" section on its own and a "Literature" section under "Popular Culture." Both cover Huck and Narcissus. Any thoughts on which of the two sections should be removed? --John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:57, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest that the small "Literature" section under "Popular Culture" be deleted, and its text merged into the larger "Literary" section.-- Toddy1 (talk) 05:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Agatha Christie - Possibly inaccurate/misleading?
For Britain, we are currently told "Agatha Christie's book Ten Little Niggers was first published in London in 1939 and continued to appear under that title until the early 1980s, when it became And Then There Were None.[14][15]".

But a look at the article on the book shows this confusing passage: Christie, Agatha (1963). And Then There Were None. London: Fontana. OCLC 12503435. Paperback, 190 pp. (The 1985 reprint was the first UK publication of the novel under the title And Then There Were None).[13]
 * So


 * 1) it would seem it was first published in the UK as "And Then There Were None" in 1985 (which is NOT "the early 1980s")
 * 2) and then somebody traveled backward in time to publish it under the same name in 1963 in a London in a parallel universe where London was not part of the UK. Tlhslobus (talk) 10:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Blazing Saddles
We are currently told, without citation: "The movie Blazing Saddles (1974) used nigger to ridicule US racism."

I'll soon be asking for a citation for this for a number of reasons. First it may have used 'nigger', but if so, I don't remember. What I DO remember is that when the black marshal appears the whites all say "But he's a ni..." (in other words they don't finish the word, so it's questionable whether they "use nigger").

But it's also unclear that what is being ridiculed is "US racism". Part of what is being ridiculed may be what later became widely known as "Political Correctness" (a term only known to Marxists back in the 1970s). And if it is racism that's being ridiculed, it's not clear whether it's US racism, white US racism, US Northern White racism, US Southern White racism, worldwide white racism, worldwide human racism, etc. But it may well also be that the scriptwriter is ridiculing 1970s white liberals (possibly including him/herself) and is not really intending to imply that they are "racists" (after all, they DON'T say nigger) or "all closet racists" or whatever, as distinct from something like "afflicted by some degree of residual prejudice and/or built-in Pavlovian reactions" or whatever other labels he/she might have wished to attach to 1970s white liberals. Presumably we are not allowed guess the answer ourselves, and need to find a RS that does the guessing for us.Tlhslobus (talk) 11:46, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Incidentally if "ni..." gets Blazing Saddles into this article, then perhaps "The Knights who say 'ni...'" sketch in Monty Python and The Holy Grail (which came out the year after Blazing Saddles) also deserves a mention (provided there's a RS that says 'ni...' is (or may be) short for 'nigger'. In the sketch Ni is only one of the words which it is dangerous to say, and the article credits the inspiration of the sketch to The Goons and currently makes no mention of either 'nigger' or Blazing Saddles. Tlhslobus (talk) 11:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Extract from a conversation about this on the Knights who say Ni Talk page, which I thought it might also be useful to copy to here:
 * --start of extract--
 * When the whites first see him they all say "But he's a ni..." (and don't dare finish the word). ... Tlhslobus (talk) 12:46, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * It's not that they don't dare (at that time, seriously?). The first one to see him approach shouts, several times, "He's a ni—" but the second syllable is drowned out each time by a bell or other incidental noise. (The new marshal uses That Word in full shortly afterward.) —Tamfang (talk) 18:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the useful info, Tamfang, though, subject to correction, I think the drowning-out sounds only apply to the first white guy, so presumably the other guys don't dare finish the word, as liberals would not have dared start it, let alone finish it, in 1974 (or now) - the movie is set in the 19th century, but the comedy is obviously really about attitudes in 1974, not 1874. Tlhslobus (talk) 21:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * As I misremember the scene, the first white guy is trying to tell the other townsfolk something they don't yet know; when the others do get a good look at the new marshal, they're too shocked to give voice to the obvious. —Tamfang (talk) 23:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Tamfang. As I misremember it (or as I understood/understand it), they're so shocked that they start to say the obvious, before remembering that they're not allowed say it. In the real world, both today and in 1974, they normally wouldn't even start to say it, but in the movie they have to start to say it or else there would be no joke for us to laugh at. But clearly there are other possible ways to remember/understand the scene, such as the one that you have just mentioned. Tlhslobus (talk) 23:49, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * --end of extract--

Tlhslobus (talk) 21:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Several characters in Blazing Saddles use the word without truncation: Lyle, Taggart, Howard Johnson, Sheriff Bart, the old woman Bart meets on the street, and Olson Johnson. Gabby Johnson, the character on the roof is still clearly speaking when the church-bells mask the last of "the sheriff is a ni[gger].  Governor William J. Le Petomane (Mel Brooks) is the only character who holds back: "Can't you see that man's a ni" (first mistakenly to Bart and then to Hedley Lamar).


 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 03:06, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the useful info, Trappist the monk. My memory would seem to be even worse than I feared. I think I'll now remove my citation needed request, at least until if and when I find more instances of truncated 'Ni'. Tlhslobus (talk) 13:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Done.Tlhslobus (talk) 13:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know that anything that I wrote here is sufficient cause to remove the . I merely reported how the term is used in the film which reporting should not be construed to mean that ... Blazing Saddles (1974) used nigger to ridicule US racism.  That statement is not supported by a WP:RS.


 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:08, 21 August 2015 (UTC)


 * You're 100% right, it was hasty and foolish of me to remove it, so I've now restored it.Tlhslobus (talk) 03:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2015
It should be "dark"skin as the skin isn't actually black.

2601:285:300:D360:2514:F110:E0D1:4483 (talk) 05:51, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * No. It is not a good idea.  The word comes from a Latin adjective "niger", which means black.  In normal English, people of European ethnicity are referred to as "white" even though their skin is actually either pink or light brown.  People of central African ethnicity are similarly referred to as "black".--  Toddy1 (talk) 07:44, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2015
Recomendation to change: black people with: Afro-descendants

wikipedia intents to mantian neutral, the term "Black people" is defined (by wikipedia) as "used in socially based systems of racial classification" ( racist / racialist societies).

187.250.49.223 (talk) 00:38, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Not done: To be honest, the term 'Black people' isn't really considered racist in today's society. Generally it's a term of description rather than anything racist, and many large websites frequently use 'black people', and it's not racist. Generally it's all about the context. Also, I'd like to point out that the term Afro-descendants is downright confusing. I'd never heard of it before, and I doubt the casual reader has either. JQ Triple7   talk  06:52, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2016
38.64.206.112 (talk) 05:09, 19 April 2016 (UTC)Why this word was changed recently is preposterous. put back the truth of this word, it does not originate from negro. The word nigger originated from old Norse languages..

It does not mean black person, and this was only used to regard the "slaves" because they were uneducated. The term "nigger" means ignorant or lack of knowledge. Most dictionary's before 2012 will refer to this word meaning both terms, and its referral as a black person is considered as slang.


 * Your claim has to have basis in reliable sources. If you can provide such sources for your claim it would be included according to their weight. Thank you Darwinian Ape talk 05:25, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

removal of refs
I have removed the following refs, because they were attached to statements that they don't seem to prove. Unless I'm missing something, these are all just attestations that such-and-such a place name did at one time exist. In addition, the website californiamaps.org no longer exists.

I'm putting them here in case anyone can make use of them, and because I'm reluctant on principle to destroy any reference. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Here are three more, one from a genealogy forum.

Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:10, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

removal of external links
Carbon Caryatid (talk) 13:09, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Analysis of the cultural uses of the word Nigga by Alex Alonso of Street Gangs Magazine
 * "Nigger and Caricatures," Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia, Ferris State University
 * "Nigger (the word), a brief history!" from the African American Registry
 * Appropriating a Slur in M/C: A Journal of Media and Culture
 * "Let's Make a Deal on the N-Word: White folks will stop using it, and black folks will stop pretending that quoting it is saying it," John McWhorter, The Root
 * A History of the N-Word - BBC Radio 4 documentary\

Re-organisation needed?
I'm not clear on why there are sections on derivations AND derivatives; literature AND literary. There's a paragraph in literature that has nothing to do with literature. Any ideas? I've been bold enough for one day. I might come back to this article after a rest, and to see if there are any responses. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 21:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised there has been no discussion over the past week, nor any substantive changes other than mine. I've done some more work today, not removing much, but trying to amalgamate sections, rewrite lists into paragraphs, make the chronology flow, and so on. Another time I'll tackle the literature sections and their repetitiveness. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 13:13, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

remove unsourced paragraph
It sounds like an academic essay, but the one source it cites, on the first sentence, does not discuss the use of the word "nigger" at all.
 * Moreover, unlike the literary escaped slave Jim, antebellum slaves used the artifice of self-deprecation (known as "Uncle Toms"), in pandering to societal racist assumptions about the black man's low intelligence, by advantageously using the word nigger to escape the violence inherent to slavery. Implicit to "Uncle Tomming" was the unspoken reminder to white folk that a presumably inferior and sub-human person could not, reasonably, be held responsible for poorly realized work, a kitchen fire, or any such catastrophic offense. The artificial self-deprecation deflected responsibility, in hope of escaping the violent wraths of overseer and master. Using nigger as a self-referential identity term also was a way of avoiding white suspicion, of encountering an intelligent slave, and so put whites at their ease. In context, a slave who referred to himself, or another black man, as a nigger presumed the master's perceiving him as a slave who has accepted his societally sub-ordinate role as private property, thus, not (potentially) subversive of the authority of the master's white supremacy.

Perhaps it would be better in Uncle Tom or African American history. Or perhaps it would be better nowhere until references are found. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 16:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

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Delete article?

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It's clearly against Wikipedia rules about not offending people and this clearly violates this rule. It would be more than efficient with a disambiguation page and a Wiktionary link. I know there's WP:NOTCENSORED but this is a matter of keeping things encyclopedic and on topic and having a whole article on the N word is nothing but an attempt to allow hate speech under the disguise of WP:NOTCENSORED. Remember that Wikipedia is a project that aims to include and respect all people, especially those of color, and therefore needs to uphold a certain level of social justice and equality. 51.174.227.172 (talk) 14:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Where is the rule about not offending people?-- Toddy1 (talk) 16:50, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It's offensive towards people of color WP:OM 51.174.227.172 (talk) 01:26, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:OM is about article content. It does not apply to the suitability of keeping or deleting an article itself,  but only the content of an article.  And referring to the subject title of the article within the article itself would obviously serve an encyclopedic purpose.  Do you have any other rationale for deleting the article?  Because WP:OM does not apply.  Marteau (talk) 01:54, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you really think having an article that is made with the purpose to inflict extensive harassment against a certain group of people is ok for Wikipedia? Now that there's so many problems with harassment and racism on Wikipedia and the Internet in general, this article is against the work we need to stop such harassment. There's already a large attempts by the community to add restrictions against such harassment and racism. Please delete this article and other such non-encyclopedic material as racism and misogyny. 51.174.227.172 (talk) 02:37, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * This article isn't meant to offend people; it's about a historically significant word that is meant to offend people. The difference is subtle but important. This article talks in an encyclopedic manner about how this word has historically been used and what it means. The people who have used this word were trying to offend, but this article itself isn't meant to offend. In fact, I would find it more offensive if this article WERE deleted. Deleting this article would be akin to saying that this word has no historical importance, and that we should pretend it never existed. - Iago Qnsi (talk) 02:50, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2016
Clarify by replacing African Americans with Black Americans In contemporary English, using the word "nigger" is considered extremely offensive, and it is often replaced with the euphemism "the N-word". The variant "nigga" has to some extent been reclaimed by African Americans. JamesMichaelBrennan (talk) 04:45, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: the article African Americans is titled with the WP:COMMONNAME and includes the alternative, "Black Americans", in the first sentence of the lead. Please explain – are you suggesting that article needs to be renamed?   Paine   u/ c  23:16, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

"Dutch: neger is neutral, zwartje (little black one) can be amicably or offensively used, nikker is always pejorative"
A lot of dutch people view the word "neger" as neutral but many african-descent and dutch people consider it offensive. The page should be adjusted accordingly.

Source: personal experience — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bonnom (talk • contribs) 17:07, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * If you can suggest a WP:RS, I'd be happy to integrate it into the article. Perhaps the Dutch parallel to the OED? Or the style guide of a major media outlet? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 14:48, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the tip about the styleguides! Two major dutch newpapers(NRC and Volkskrant) have released a styleguide. NRC prefers to avoid the term "neger" and Volkskrant called it "Other Infectious words (..., black) are also missing from the vocabulary of the editors..". I also found a couple sources on the dutch wikipedia page. A reaction article about a debate with the word "neger" in it. From the article: "I was struck dumb when I read the title “Hoe noem je een neger?”(How do you call a nigger?)". "The Taaltelefoon(Language teleophone) recommends to use the word "zwarte"(black) instead of "neger". and the last article discusses the neutrality of the word "neger". "Someone who still uses the term 'Negro' is not necessarily a racist or a derogatory intent. Usually not at all. But the word has become infected and therefore it is for black Dutch annoying or even offensive. It is especially difficult for black people who know the history of slavery to hear the word of white Dutch who know hardly anything of this. " '


 * I hope I delivered enough sources.

Bonnom (talk) 21:52, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Good finds. I've integrated several of these. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 00:13, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Problems
This article fails to cite reliable sources in its core claims. First the subject word is a RACIAL, not ethnic, slur. (And yes I know that for some inexplicable reason (I'd guess pure laziness) racial slurs are included in the List of Ethnic Slurs). Second, the lede contains both "by the mid-twentieth century, particularly in the United States, its usage became unambiguously pejorative, a racist insult." and "In contemporary English, using the word "nigger" is considered extremely offensive..." and yet it is commonly used by african-americans and is (afaik) NOT considered "extremely offensive" nor "unambiguously pejorative" nor a racist insult - when used by blacks. Third, its use by whites and other racial groups is viewed in contemporary US culture as unacceptable, while its use by blacks is usually considered as acceptable (if somewhat crude) slang. Fourth, its use has continued, both in the black community, and in some parts of the white community, since it was first introduced hundreds of years ago - there has been no REappropriation. Fifth, the background of why the word is so offensive ought to be mentioned - it was used especially in the South, as a label for slaves and came to be associated with ignorance, lack of hygiene, powerlessness, inferiority, and servitude (amongst other things). Shouldn't this be mentioned?173.191.76.21 (talk) 19:22, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * FYI: The word used by African Americans between themselves is: Nigga, NOT Nigger. Nigga is a "home boy", and is said with affection between friends. Blacks do not use the word Nigger between themselves. As a white man with many black friends, you can take this as a matter of fact, and not opinion. "Nigga" would be an entirely separate article. This is the way it is in America. I sense a British accent from you, and I have no clue what the slang terms are there between blacks, but I'm guessing it's the same. It's a small world. Pocketthis (talk) 16:59, 27 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You "sense" a British accent? Pishposh.  "I have black friends" is not an argument.  The simple truth is that black people in the US mispronounce "nigger" just like they do "inkpen" (inkpin) and "ask" (ax).  Don't even get me started on salmon (sal - mon). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.166.249 (talk • contribs)


 * What is the difference between a racial and an ethnic slur?-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:00, 26 August 2016 (UTC)


 * "Racial" and "ethnic" have more or less identical cultural meanings, since race as concrete category of human beings has been thoroughly debunked by scientists for quite some time ("race" is a social construct, not a robust scientific construct -- we're all cousins, none of us different enough to argue anything but "ethnicity", a looser construct clearly dependent on cultural vagaries). I'm not at all saying "race" or (certainly) "racism/racist" has no meaning, but what it means is ethnic bias -- hatred of one ethnicity for another.
 * And I'd like to add that it is certainly true that "nigger" has been used as both a pejorative (historically, and certainly by now, extremely offensive) by outsiders, but as a (controversial) term of friendship among insiders. I'm sure there's an anthropological or sociological term for this phenomenon (cf: queer), but can't be bothered to look it up right now. "Nigga" is obviously a significant variation, as noted, and popularized in music, but it's only a variation on "nigger" which has been used, and spelled, this way with the exact same connotation of camaraderie among insiders for at least the entire 20th century. The idea that there's a distinction between the terms or spellings is completely new and a kind back-formation.  I wish I had the expertise to contribute to this article in factual and historical way -- it's a difficult one because it's been an extremely emotionally evocative term, and for good reason, but it also invokes deep emotions among the editors of the article, which is too bad, because supplying a factual, knowledgable history of the term would be extremely useful, since there's still enormous social conflict surrounding African-Americans, or black people of many nationalities, against whom this term has been levied, and among whom, this term has often been used in mutual affection. StrangeAttractor (talk) 05:39, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Nigger Noun from the country formally named Niger. Used to describe a person from Niger also a person of Afrcan descent. The word nigger has slight differences in pronunciation. Many words with an r are commonly mispronounced. The word is said to be offensive esp. by those who mispronounce it. It is also believed by some that others say it incorrectly or can't say it at all. It is the second most taboo word in the United States for causes of benefit by those claim it offensive. Second in lack of " political correctness only to the word incest. Contemporarily the most common meaning of the word nigger is to express suppression or feelings or a desire to feel suppressed. Mark henins (talk) 06:58, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * With utter sincerity, I feel compelled to state that none of what you say above, Mark henins, is particularly useful and much of it is erroneous. And please make no mistake, "Nigger" is absolutely a term that is very deeply offensive in most contexts when used by outsiders, but also has been used as a sign of camaraderie or affection among insiders, a common phenomenon for pejoratives, for other examples see redneck, queer, Yankee Doodle. That is not at all a new development, it's been an offensive term almost since the time of slavery, and in any case, certainly in the lifetime of anyone editing here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StrangeAttractor (talk • contribs) 05:21, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Needs citation and should not be posted as is. It is mostly unverified and largly misleading; as this is a sensitive topic you should put a visible disclaimer stating that some/all of this uncited information is opinion. You already take the steps to disallow editing, please do more. This is not ment as an indictment of the write. Thank you. YAZYAK (talk) 17:54, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * For people who pronounce "nigger" and "nigga" the same, and for those who keep them distinct, see Rhoticity in English. As a standard British English speaker, I am arhotic, i.e. I do not pronounce 'r' as a consonant at ends of syllables. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:44, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Nigger and nigga

 * See Talk:Nigger above :: some passages in this article mention the words "nigger" and "nigga" as different words, even among the black community; but that depends on rhotic pronunciation to keep the 2 words distinct, or usage in writing. I am British and I speak standard British English, which is arhotic. In the USA is the word "nigga" sometimes kept distinct from "nigger" by being pronounced with an "ah" sound rather than with a neutral vowel at the end, as the spelling "niggah" seems to show? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:58, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Used vs mentioned
The article says
 * Nigger is an ethnic slur usually directed at black people. The term is considered extremely offensive, and it is often replaced with the euphemism "the N-word".

I think this needs some clarification:
 * When directed at a black person (or any person, for that matter), i.e., when the term is used, it is of course extremely offensive, and in fact this is the purpose of the term: to offend the person it is directed at. However, in this case it is (obviously) never replaced by the term "N-word"
 * It seems to me that even mentioning the term (usually without the intent to offend anybody, e.g. in a news report) is often considered offensive (by whom? to whom? this is not clear to me). Only in such cases is the term often replaced by "N-word".

I assume that this term (or racial slurs in general?) gets special treatment because of America's long history of slavery and racial discrimination, but I do not have any reference for that.

--Austrian (talk) 21:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I have tried to make the sentences in the lede about the N-word a better summary of what the article contents say about the N-word euphemism.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:35, 3 June 2017 (UTC)