Talk:Night/Archive 1

Expansion
possible topics: day and night length; more on cultural associations; harvest moonVicki Rosenzweig 02:19 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Night in literature
Could anyone write "night in literature"? 211.75.249.244 17:39, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Etymology of night comes from the ancient Greek Nyx?

Below the horizon
Is twilight considered night? The sun is below the horizon, but light is refracted in the atmosphere, lighting up the earth. According to the definition of night at the top of the page, twilight would be night. However, on the section on duration, this refraction is given as a reason for longer days than nights, thus implying that twilight is day (or at least not night).Phantombantam 05:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Impact on Life
The paragraph on artificial light ends: "'The night is young' refers to the period when the sun is below the horizon and not the period before midnight." This sentence doesn't have anything to do with the rest of this paragraph. It also isn't clear that "nightclubs, bars, convenience stores, fast-food restaurants, gas stations" would be a "significant part of the economy in most places" day or night - factories operating at night maybe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.61.140 (talk) 18:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Definition of Night
Hi, I noticed you removed my addition to the definition of night. It seems that there are two definitons of night, which appear to contradict each other. Night has been defined as when the sun is below the horizon by the night article and when the sun is more than 18° below the horizon by the twilight. Both these definitions are technically correct, but there needs to be a way of disambiguating between the two. A similar situation has been encountered with day, but this has been sorted out by having daytime represent the time when the sun is above the horizon and day meaning 24 hours. I suggest that night be defined as when the sun is more than 18° below the horizon and nighttime be defined as when the sun is below the horizon. What do you think? Thanks. Set Sail  For The   Seven Seas    186° 50' 14" NET    12:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There are many definitions of "night", depending on source and intent. In the intro it suffices to give one rather generic definition. For most purposes defining it as "sun under horizon" is good enough. In later sections, the different kinds of twilight margins can be worked out. A very comprehensive source is usno.navy.mil. You will notice that "18 degrees under" is only one of the many definitions. &minus;Woodstone (talk) 15:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Very well, but it still leaves the problem of disambiguation. What terminology should be used to refer to the sun being more than 18° below the horizon if night is used to refer to the sun being below the horizon? If night is used for both, how should they be disambiguated so that when the sun is in between 0° and 18° below the horizon there isn't a situation where there is night and no night at the same time? The best solution I see is that night be defined as when the sun is more than 18° below the horizon and nighttime be defined as when the sun is below the horizon; that way the more common term can be paired with the more common definition, night can be used for its proper astronomical purpose, nighttime can be mutually independent to daytime and together, nighttime and daytime can span the entire day. Hope this helps.   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    253° 8' 0" NET    16:52, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I think we should just accept that the word is ambiguous. There is no need to select one of the specific definitions as the "true" definition. Next to plain sunset/sunrise, the referred source above talks about civil (6°), nautical (12°), and astronomical (18°) twilight. From the round numbers you will understand that these definitions are highly artificial and they are not particularly widespread. Nevertheless, in the detail section, you might use plain, civil, nautical, and astronomical night. &minus;Woodstone (talk) 20:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The term night is definitely ambiguous, but then again so is day but the sun being above the horizon is generally referred to as daytime in articles where the day of 24 hours is also mentioned so as to disambiguate between the two. There seems to be no equivalent for night and nighttime appears to be a spare term sharing the same definition as night. So we have two terms, night and nightime; both referring to two definitions, the sun being below the horizon and the sun being 18° below the horizon. It seems that the best solution would to pair up the definitions, even if it is a dummy pair up for disambiguation purposes and leave an explanation explaining the two different definitions as has been done on the day page. The most suitable solution I see is that night be defined as when the sun is more than 18° below the horizon and nighttime be defined as when the sun is below the horizon but have a "sun being below the horizon vs sun being 18° below the horizon" section on the night article explaining the differences and its relevance in order to allow articles that need the disambiguation to have the disambiguation, while other articles can just refer to night as the sun being below the horizon and link to the nighttime page. Hope this helps.    Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    209° 31' 0" NET    13:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The situation is not symmetric. Day is "24 h" or "sun up". Night is "Sun down", with distinction of down by 0, diameter of Sun, diameter plus atmospheric lift, or the arbitrary 6, 12 or 18 degrees. So trying to find matching naming pairs will not succeed. In my view, still the best solution is to loosely define night as "not day". The interpretation of day as 24 hours is clearly impossible in that context. So it leaves only "Sun not up". In a subsequent detailing section the many other definitions can be explained. I see no good reason for singling out "down by more than 18 degrees" as only alternative. &minus;Woodstone (talk) 20:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to single out, I'm trying to disambiguate night in the same way that has been done with day. Day means "24 h" or "sun up", but disambiguates between the two by using daytime to mean "sun up" and yet some articles refer to day as "sun up". Night and nighttime both mean "sun below horizon" or "sun 18° below horizon", but disambiguation between the two can be made by having night mean "sun 18° below horizon" and nighttime mean "sun below horizon". I repeat, this is a dummy pair up for those articles that need to disambiguate between the two definitions; those articles that don't need disambiguation can say night, mean "sun below horizon" and link to the relevant article. The point is that there are two terms, two definitions, complete ambiguity and a need for disambiguation; this is the best solution. Day has been disambiguated and yet it still means "24 h" or "sun up", for article that need both definitions, day means "24 h" and daytime means "sun up". This is also a dummy pair up for those articles that need to disambiguate between the two definitions; those articles that don't need disambiguation can still refer to day as "sun up" and link to the relevant article. Hope this helps.   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas    304° 52' 45" NET    20:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rather than trying to give such an accurate description, can't we just either give a rough time of day for all times of day and/or make a schematic and an article for "time of day" ? For example we can say

(per climate: ie artic, temperate, subtropical, tropical)
 * dawn: from ?h-?h local time
 * daytime: from ?h-?h local time
 * dusk: from ?h-?h local time
 * night: from ?h-?h local time

We can also compare with noon, late afternoon, twilight, sunrise, sunset, ... User:AnonymousWikiDweller 17:29, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Below the horizon: describing sun-angular limits of night
I think this aspect of night is disjoint from, above. A colleague stated limits as "when the sun is between 18 and 90 degrees below the horizon and the sky is totally dark.", and i think failed to clarify that what appears before the word "and" guarantees not that "the sky is totally dark" but rather that the only light from the sun is that which is reflected (by the moon, a satellite near dawn or dusk, or an occasional planet -- and comet tails when applicable) rather than direct or refracted illumination. "18 and 90" has replaced something like "at least 18", but either is deficient without proper "motivation" of the concept. Both are too counter-intuitive to stand without clarification; with clarification 18 is much less boggle-prone, bcz it's natural to picture a near-hemisphere bounded by a circle, and much more complicated to be prodded toward picturing it as the limit of a series of slices off a spherical surface. Maybe i'm the only other editor who's interested, in which case i'll sooner or later do a reversion, tho i'd rather see some wider discussion of the matter. --Jerzy•t 01:53, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Tropical circles
The sun reaches 90 degrees below the horizon at the Tropic of Cancer on December Solstice and Tropic of Capricorn on June Solstice, and at the equator on the equinoxes, the sun can only be directly straight down between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn just like the sun can only be directly overhead in these places in the tropics the sun will pass directly overhead and straight down twice a year. --98.31.29.4 (talk) 03:30, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Latitudes greater than 72° north or south of Equator on equinoxes
You know the equinoxes is where the sun is overhead at the equator and it’s also directly below as well

Here are the solar midnight maximum twilight phase on the equinoxes

Astronomical twilight - latitudes 72° - 78° north or south of equator

Nautical twilight - latitudes 78° - 84° north or south of equator

Civil twilight - latitudes 84° - 89°10’ north or south of equator

So the earth without a tilt would be the day of the equinox every day, and latitudes greater than 72° to 89°10’ north or south of equator would never experience complete darkness, although the sun would set but the sun would never sync below 18° below the horizon for complete darkness to occur, and without a tilt both poles would be in permanent daylight due to refraction 2603:6011:E01:A312:8433:A47E:5F3C:F3BA (talk) 21:14, 30 August 2022 (UTC)