Talk:Night of January 16th

Comment
This book is highly entertaining and I would love to see it as a play. A bit of information not already on here is that Night of January 16th was formerly titled as Penthouse Legend, it was changed when the published version was out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.84.192 (talk) 22:55, 22 August 2005‎

More details
We recently did this show at our community theater, so I will try to fill in what I can. Unfortunately, we only have one version of the script. We know there were at least two of them, with slightly differing witnesses. I'll fill in more later. -Fuzzy 15:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The characterization of the attorneys...
...seems a little off. They weren't necessarily sympathetic to their causes. They were just doing a JOB. Attorneys don't normally choose their clients. Trial lawyers are actors. 68.223.95.118 (talk) 15:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There is that. I think I wrote the original words for those bits, and it was with the intention that that was the tack they were taking in their "acting" as trial lawyers based on their scripted lines. As it is, the current phrasing does sound more like it's their base feelings rather than their dialogue. -Fuzzy (talk) 11:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Good article?
I've been doing a lot of work on the article recently trying to get it ready for a good article nomination. I don't think there are many watchers for this page, so I've solicited for input at Talk:Ayn Rand and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Theatre. If anyone is watching, or has come here because of my posts elsewhere, feel free to comment on whether you think the article is ready or could use further improvement. Thanks. --RL0919 (talk) 22:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Feedback from Curly Turkey
I'm giving the article another copyedit. Feel free to undo any edits you disagree with.
 * Rand's husband, an actor—I assume he had a name?
 * Shoshana Milgram saw elements ... Ronald Merrill went further ...—who?
 * Merrill dismissed this explanation as a cover-up for the play's promotion of Nietzschean ideas that Rand later rejected.—what idea is that? Nietsche believed criminals were heroes or something?
 * Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:38, 3 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Undid one simply because it changed a direct quote; otherwise no problem. Regarding the bullets above:
 * Husband: Added the name, a little reluctantly because he was an actor named Frank O'Connor, but he isn't Frank O'Connor (actor), so using his name can draw bad links. Easy enough to revert, I suppose.
 * A bunch of ways to handle it that I can think of:
 * Leave a hidden comment that this Frank O'Connor isn't that Frank O'Connor (actor)
 * If there's any possibility of making a stub out of Rand's Frank, make one
 * Leave a footnote explaining they're not the same person. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:30, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hidden comment was a good suggestion. If anyone doesn't like that, it could be made into a visible note. I don't believe he is notable enough for an article. --RL0919 (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Milgram and Merrill: Added brief descriptions.
 * Nietzsche: I'm not going to claim to be a Nietzsche expert (although I know one if it comes to that), but the basic idea is he thought there were different moralities for different kinds of people, so just because something is immoral in the code of everyday folks, doesn't mean it is immoral for everyone. I mention some of what Merrill attributed to Rand earlier in the paragraph. Should I move the two passages about Merrill's interpretation closer together? Or perhaps some other type of clarification is needed? I like the flow of it now, but I'm open to suggestions if it is confusing.
 * Well, it leaves this reader wondering what's being implied. If the sources don't delve into it, it's not a good idea to conduct your own research into it, though.
 * I put the passages about Merrill together; hopefully that makes it a bit more clear. --RL0919 (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep 'em coming until you're out. :-) --RL0919 (talk) 16:18, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I'm out. I supported last time, and I still think the article's above the threshold. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:30, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Great. Assuming those last two tweaks are acceptable, I will give it one last check-over for final details (image licenses, links, etc.), then start a nomination page. Will ping you for your input on that also, if you don't mind. --RL0919 (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Character name spelling
Just noticed that the last name of a minor character, the gangster's wife that was added to the play against Rand's wishes, is spelled differently in various sources. So far I've found at least five variations: Renssalear, Rensallear, Rensselaer, Rensallaer, and Renssalaer. For the moment I've made it consistently Rensselaer, which is how it appears in Reeid's amateur playbook. The Broadway program (see here) gives Rensallear, which is also in the New York Times review. Is this worth an explanatory note? Or just pick one and cite a source for it? --RL0919 (talk) 21:20, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Church theatre group production
An IP editor is currently edit warring to include a paragraph about a church-based theatre group's production in 2017, along with several external links. The recommendations of WikiProject Theatre, found at WikiProject Theatre/Article Structure are quite clear: Only professional productions should be included in articles about plays. It's easy to see why, since an older play that is popular among community theatres and/or student groups could have hundreds or even thousands of productions over the decades. That is exactly the case with Night of January 16th. I'm starting this discussion to give the IP editor a chance to justify themselves if they want to try. --RL0919 (talk) 20:20, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Lack of definite article in the title
An IP editor has recently been edit warring to insert "The" at the beginning of the play's title throughout the article. The justification for this is that the poster used as the image in the infobox says "The Night of January 16th" at the top. The inconsistency in the advertising notwithstanding, the title of the play is well established as Night of January 16th. That is the title used on the published text of the play, including both the amateur version first published in 1936 (listed in the article's sources from a later printing as Reeid 1964) and the later "official" revision from Ayn Rand (listed in the sources as Rand 1971). She also uses that title in her letters, published in Letters of Ayn Rand. It also goes without "The" in most biographies of Rand. A few examples from ones cited in the article (see the "Works cited" section for full bibliographical details):
 * Baker 1987, p. 9: "Its name was changed again, this time to Night of January 16th"
 * Branden 1986, p. 121: "Ayn grudgingly agreed to change the title to Night of January 16th"
 * Burns 2009, p. 28: "When her play Night of January 16th was first produced"
 * Gladstein 1999, p. 34: "Night of January 16th is a courtroom drama"

Based on these sources, it should be clear what is the correct title of the play. Advertisements are generally not reliable sources and should not be used to determine what we call it. --RL0919 (talk) 00:06, 10 May 2021 (UTC)