Talk:Nights into Dreams/Archive 1

A-life
I played this game alot, but i never noticed anything about this A-life system. The only thing I know about it for sure is you could kill the little creatures accidentally, and once all were gone, they could never be placed back in the stages. --Abdull 21:47, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Christmas NiGHTS internal clock mods
I just edited in that the changes take affect when the Saturn's clock reaches December 1. While I'm fairly sure that's close, I don't know if that's the exact date. Unfortunately I don't have the wherewithal to dig out my Saturn and hook it up and find my copy of C-NiGHTS to verify it. Druff 22:53, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Redirect
I've redirected the badly-written "Nights into Dreams" page to here, "NiGHTS Into Dreams", which is much more comprehensive and informative. --128.243.220.41 11:43, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe the correct title is NiGHTS Into Dreams... with the three periods on the end. I would be bold and move it, but there would be a ton of redirects to fix. ~ Hibana 21:34, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Air NiGHTS?
Is there any truth in the Air NiGHTS claim? Google only returns pages mirroring this content and similarly vague claims on other websites (doubtless the source for this page's claim). Could anyone provide a better source? -- ThomasWinwood 17:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The name was given in an interview with Yuji Naka in issue of the official UK Dreamcast magazine. I believe the website Sonic Team Speaks (part of Big Smile's Sonic Site) has a transcript of the article, but I think the site has moved recently and I'm not sure of a current, reliable URL.


 * Don't worry, I'll add a reference to that issue of ODM soon. --Nick R 13:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Here it is. --Nick R 17:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Moved "Gameplay" section
I moved the Gameplay section to the start in front of Characters, because I think it makes more sense for the article to start off with a description of what the game is like rather than starting with detailed character information. Sum0 14:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Characters and story sections
These appear to be copied (or translated) directly from the official descriptions. Unfortunately, Wikipedia can't include direct copies of copyrighted text. The sections will have to be rewritten in encyclopaedic style. -- Nick RTalk 13:27, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Characters update
There are more characters in the game than just Claris and Elliot. Just wanted to let you know. I used to play this game and I am an avid fan of the game. There is also gonna be a sequel! =D Angie Y. 17:32, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't remember any major characters other than Claris, Elliot, NiGHTS and the bosses/mares/whatever. Second, no there isn't. --CCFreak2K 13:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * About the sequel, awwwww! Angie Y. 16:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Cover Art
Should we have all the region's box art up? They aren't hard to find. Perhaps little thumbnails or something. In a neat section, especially as the art in the game is focused on a lot of the time? Ayries 14:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Character catagorizations?
I have noticed the nightmaren have been mentioned as main characters and I think it'd be more correct to have them listed differently as they are "villains" and bosses in which you fight within the game. They are villains in the comic as well. I doubt there would be any interest in the minions but that is another option. Perhaps as other Wiki topics have done is make a separate characters page. I have many images I have screen shot that could be used for this purpose.

Maresuke 07:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Development
Using all the Sonic Team interviews, I'm going to write a development section for Nights. Theres loads of interesting stuff about character and game design from those interviews. Any suggestions, or links to good examples? Gskdreamer 13:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Sega Poll
Should this be added to the NiGHTS future section. The poll is "Which SEGA game/character would you like to see return?" and as of this posting NiGHTS has 9143 votes which is 56% of all votes over Streets of Rage, Samba de Amigo, Virtua Cop, and Flicky. Sora3087 06:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it can be added once the poll is finished, that way it can be dated and have a final figure Gskdreamer 18:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll keep my eye on it then. Sora3087 08:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It would perhaps be more appropriate in the "reaction" section, as an indication of the game's popularity compared to other franchises. Sega have not suggested that the results of this informal poll will influence their decisions in future, so placing it in the "future" section would only add to the speculation already described in that section. - -- Nick RTalk 16:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Do what you will with the info this is the most recent poll info i got at 10:45pm march 15th
 * Which SEGA game/character would you like to see return?
 * Total Number of Responses: 17948


 * NiGHTS - 9842
 * 55%
 * Streets of Rage - 4903
 * 27%
 * Samba de Amigo - 1475
 * 8%
 * Virtua Cop - 1167
 * 7%
 * Flicky - 561
 * 3%

Good work Sora - were any final results published? I've put it in the future section, hows that? Gskdreamer 10:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

ONM rumour
Although I think it's right to place it here, I think the mention that they have previously published fake rumours needs a citation to make it valid, otherwise it seems pretty accusatory. 86.129.31.72 15:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Heres a thread about ONM
 * I've never read the mag, but I only hear bad things about it Gskdreamer 22:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've quoted Joystiq, and you can read up more on the magazine's reliability here. JackSparrow Ninja 10:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Joystiq has responded with a response from ONM that their article is not an April fools joke and citing sources that have info that a NiGHTS game for Wii has been in development for 6 months and the poll was designed to back up their decision to resurrect NiGHTS. [Read Here] Sora3087 10:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Gameplay, Dreams and Nightmarians
I've added short desciptions of each dream and of the nightmarians, as well as divided up the gameplay section into parts. I was thinking of using this pic - its fan made, but is pretty good and in one shot has everyone except for the kids.

I'm a member of www.scoreattack.net, so I'm actively interested in the scoring aspect of the game - can we do more for that? Is it worth going into greater detail than there already is?Gskdreamer 15:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think fanart is generally permitted on Wikipedia - I've generally only seen it in articles on characters in books that haven't been adapted for film or television, and even then I'm not sure it's appropriate. There are some issues with the images in the article at the moment (too many/too high-resolution for fair use; too big for certain sections) so I don't really want to add any more now.
 * Regarding the dream descriptions, most featured videogame articles don't have level lists (indeed, one was removed from the Perfect Dark article). Character lists, with or without descriptions, may edge into fancruft, so I'm not sure we should list the names and descriptions of each in-level baddy - the playable characters and bosses are enough.
 * The present paragraph on the scoring system goes into all the detail that's necessary for a general audience. In fact, since it's only one paragraph, it may be better to re-incorporate it back into the flow of the main "Gameplay" section rather than giving it its own subsection. -- Nick RTalk 14:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think theres an offical pic with both Elliot and Claris together. I can see want you mean about the enemies/levels descriptions; but it looks incomplete just mentioning them and the table looks a bit basic without any descriptions.Gskdreamer 15:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I have screenshots of the CGed images of all the nightmaren and nightmaren minions, no fanart, and would love to upload them, but it would be a lot of images and I think it would junk up the format of the page. Should I upload them anyhow or should we discuss a format? Perhaps group all the minions into one photo? I'm not sure how this should be done. Maresuke 17:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Cameos page?
Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to make a page for NiGHTS cameos? There have definitely been enough of them to justify a new page, IMO. NiGHTS into Dreams... 02:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I second it, ONLY if pictures or links to videos of proof can be provided for a few of them. That would be really nice. Maresuke 08:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll set it up then, I know I can find a good many of them. Someone REALLY needs to take a screencap of that Science of Sleep thing, though. NiGHTS into Dreams... 11:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm completely opposed to the creation of a separate page. Judging by previous articles for deletion discussions, it would be very unlikely that it would survive a nomination long without being deleted or restored back into this article. As much as I like it, NiGHTS is really a very minor game in the overall history of videogames, yet even something as big as the Legend of Zelda series has only a single section on cameos and references within its main article.
 * Honestly, I really think the best thing to do is to restore the list to this main page and condense it, preferably changing it to prose. Not every cameo appearance needs to be mentioned (Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information), and I think that even with omissions a tighter section would improve this article more than splitting it and using summary style.
 * I know attitudes on Wikipedia regarding what constitutes a valid subject for a page vary widely (for example, see the recent discussion at Talk:Kill_Bill), but personally I really think we can manage perfectly well with a single section within this article.
 * Also, Maresuke mentioned providing images for the article/section. A big gallery would be good for references, but not for satisfying image fair use criteria - IMO we've already got too many fair use images without rationales in the article as it is (combining the Claris/Elliot images was a good move though).-- Nick RTalk 18:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Peer Review
I think it's time for a peer review. This article looks like it's looking good enough to be a GA with a little more work, and I think a Peer Review would help. NiGHTS into Dreams... 21:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

GameReactor Nights exclusive
I've seen the following image, it differs from the one of the official site: http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/e2x5wq.jpg

Does it's real? Why two different images for the magazine and the internet? -- 87.217.10.25 18:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There wasn't meant to be two images. They originally had the picture, but I guess Sega didn't want to let the cat out of the bag officially yet, so they made the magazine remove the image.... yet we still all know that there is major NiGHTs information ready to bubble out at any moment.... bubble.. Lamename3000 06:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Another thing for whomever reads this. Since Naki (sp?) said that Wii would be the perfect console for a NiGHTs sequel, I am speculating that the sequel/remake/re-release will be a Wii exclusive. But again, my speculation and not meant to be even thought about in the article (until we have more information, which would be soon.)Lamename3000 07:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * True. Should we put the cover on the page, or is that infringement of some kind?  I think it would increase the quality of the article. NiGHTS into Dreams... 11:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Gender?
The article lists NiGHTs as a "he", yet.. it... talks like a woman ingame (I think), and also looks like one. Is.. it.. really a "he"? - Snip3rNife 06:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * NiGHTS was designed to be androgynous, but people generally say he because it's easier than it. Ayries 07:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

lol I suppose Nights' yelp is quite girly (thats the only thing it says in the game I think) - nid.com has a quote about Nights gender being ambiguous. Gskdreamer 17:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

User: Nights into Dreams... edits - wtf
Why have you messed around with this? I dont mind the cameos page, but you've taken out all the character stuff, removed the scoring section completely (if you think its not important, then that tells me you havent played the game very much), reduced the alife details, and made the pics positions untidy. Can someone roll back his edits to [this]... again... please? Gskdreamer 15:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you are overreacting a bit. User: Nights is doing a great job of removing all un-needed fluff from the article. Wikipedia isn't a game guide, and stuff like score details make the article harder to read than it needs to be. The article still needs a bit more work to make it more viewer/reader friendly, but that takes time. A revert would do more harm than good. Keep up the great job User: NiD.Lamename3000 19:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Lamename, I was following the suggestions given in the peer review. At the top of the page, there's a link to it. It's still not done, but it'll happen. Gsk, while the info is very, very important, it is too much like a strategy guide. (Btw, I play NiGHTS constantly. On the scoreattack.net website that I know you're a member of, I'm NiGHTSWii.) NiGHTS into Dreams... 23:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think its not enough to have just the 3 playable characters and no one else - considering how important Wizeman and Reala are to the story line, and to have nothing on the scoring seems silly as its such a big part of the game - its not mentioned at all at the moment (correct me if I'm wrong)
 * I get the need to be concise, but I'd like to see a balance. I dunno, maybe I just want more from nights wiki than wiki is meant to be... sorry if I was overly aggressive Nightswii, especailly if you were just following wiki guidelines - I find the limits placed on wiki not to my taste - though can see the reasoning. Gskdreamer 17:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

They were good changes, mostly. However, I don't think it was necessary to trim down the score/boss system information quite that much. OK, having written or edited much of it, admittedly I may be biased towards keeping it. But if you look at other featured videogame articles such as Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater and Perfect Dark, they have reasonably large gameplay sections touching on most aspects (but not excessively detailed... well, except maybe in the descriptions of PD's multiplayer modes). Also, I think it's quite important to focus on the gameplay section for this game, since there's not a vast amount of information on the game's production process that could be used for a "development" section.

So I think it may be possible to go into a little more detail without going to the "game guide" extent of before, as was mentioned in that peer review. I'll have a go at re-incorporating some of the info on the scoring and bosses... but not too much! -- Nick RTalk 22:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I've done that now: added an example of one move that can be performed (the paraloop), noted that speedy boss fights are rewarded, commented on the time limit as NiGHTS, and simply stated that the combo system exists, without going into too much detail. That's about as much detail on each element as is featured in other good articles' "Gameplay" sections - not too excessive! -- Nick RTalk 00:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, I've just noticed - both the "Characters: NiGHTS" and "Gameplay" sections now feature descriptions of the paraloop. That doesn't need to be repeated. More text added to the character sections would improve the layout, but descriptions of playable in-game actions might be more suited to "Gameplay". -- Nick RTalk 00:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Popularity and future/Further appearances
I'm not pleased with later sections of the article. "Popularity and future" isn't really the best title for a section focusing just on a possible sequel - rename it? Also, there's really too much detail following the various rumours over the years - I'll be glad when it's officially announced, because then we'll be able to remove the running commentary and just have one brief summary. :)

I renamed "cameo appearances" to "further appearances", so that "Comics" would be a more relevant subsection. More detail could be added though: when were the comics published, for example? Also, with that picture and that little text, the layout's not very good. I still really don't think that the separate article "NiGHTS into Dreams... Cameos" is suitable for Wikipedia, either, so some of the content from there should be re-incorporated into this one. -- Nick RTalk 00:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Should it be mentioned that the second set of NiGHTS Comics weren't based on the game's story at all? because the last 3 comics have nothing to do with the game, besides the characters. Maresuke 05:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Science of Sleep
Does anyone have a picture of the supposed NiGHTS reference in The Science of Sleep? If so, it would be nice to add it to the page. I myself have not seen the film, so I do not know if this is true or not. NiGHTS into Dreams...

I wanted to ask the same thing. Angie Y. 16:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I've rented this movie and watched it 3 times. Two of those times have been in slow motion on the dream parts trying to find the purple figure. I still haven't found it. I don't even know what scene to look in. Maresuke 07:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * After watching this movie many times, I have come to belive that there is no flying purple figure in this movie at all. I see no flying figures beside the main character swiming/flying in once dream. Maresuke 06:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

NiGHTS for Wii appearin on portuguese magazine
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/57421520070330_180006_0_big.jpg http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/57421520070330_180008_1_big.jpg http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/57421520070330_180644_0_big.jpg http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/57421520070330_181047_0_big.jpg http://img158.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=73007_missingpage_122_520lo.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.217.10.25 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 30 March 2007


 * This is already posted. Thank you, but please read before posting things. JackSparrow Ninja 18:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

NiGHTS 2: (not) a fake
After submitting an article about the "NiGHTS 2" mentioned in the Wiki entry, someone sent me me this link: Sorry guys, guess NiGHTS 2 won't come out on Wii after all.

For the topic I wrote about this, click here.


 * Guess what? It's been confirmed. yay! -KLink/NiN10col/Neotendo123 12:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:NiGHTS series
I just created the template, it seems appropiate for it that it has a sequel now. undefinedOBEY STARMAN 17:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Sequel section
This article's section on the sequel still needs a little more cleanup, but I think this is about the length it should stay. This article is about the first game, so there only needs to be a very brief summary of NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams. The sequel's own article can go into more detail about specific confirmed gameplay features, and the progression of the various rumours over the years. -- Nick RTalk 23:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

NiGHTS into Dreams... → Nights into Dreams... — comply with WP:MOSCAPS and WP:MOSTM. We should give no special consideration to capitalization, color, font, etc when naming an article Neier 05:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.

Support

 * 1) Support as nominator. Neier 06:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Agreed. -- ReyBrujo 19:57, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Support, as this is our common title case formatting for published works. - Cyrus XIII 22:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Support as nominator. John Smith&#39;s 22:41, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) I knew Neier was using sockpuppets! Support per various Wikipedia style manuals. Dekimasu よ!  10:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Support. I think that those three dots should also be removed. --Mika1h 12:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
Small point but if this change is accepted I would also suggest changing NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams to Nights: Journey of Dreams as well because it would make no sense for the sequel to be formatted differently that the original. Also if it is not accepted Nights Into Dreams should at least be a redirect since it would make the article eadier to find. --70.48.111.247 19:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, that would be an uncontroversial follow-up then. - Cyrus XIII 22:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. There may also be a case for using ellipsis (…) rather than three full stops (...), but I shan't act on that without some encouragement. --Stemonitis 07:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Capitalisation discussion
There's a discussion about the capitalisation of the name in both the article's title and content at: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (trademarks) -- Nick RTalk 12:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Does anyone else think that this page needs to be blocked from editing by new or unregistered users? Most of the recent vandalism comes from people who go to my school who hate me, and they refuse to stop.NiGHTS into Dreams... 13:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm... it seems to have gone away (probably the flamers/trolls just got bored or something). I believe it was locked at sometime. Still, it looks like the problem has calmed down for now.... NNR07 16:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Article title
WP:MOSTM states that "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment". So the name for this article should be changed to Nights into Dreams. The three dots should also be removed, they brake the linking of the page. Anyone agree? --Mika1h 23:24, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a good point, Mika1h, and carefully be analyzed. I do have the game manual and jewel case on me, and the trademark does indeed read "NiGHTS" with the lowercase "i." In fact, the manual refers to the game simply as "NiGHTS" and never "NiGHTS Into Dreams..." And if we go by the title on the jewel case, we can see that the "i" in "into" is lowercase, and, though the stylized font makes it difficult to determine, it appears the "d" in "dreams" is also lowercase. Admittedly, nowadays, the most popular usage of the title does appear to be "NiGHTS Into Dreams..." across most gaming media outlets. However, you can see in most interviews that the developer Naka and crew simply refer to the game as "NiGHTS." Indeed, that appears to be the most common usage when the game was released in 1996, although "NiGHTS" is kind of used as an abbreviation now. The "..." really is decorative punctuation; there's still no consensus over whether Yahoo! or TNA Impact! should stand with their decorative punctuation.


 * I think that, by overwhelming common usage, the lowercase "i" in "NiGHTS" should still stand. The question is whether the title should simply be "NiGHTS" or "NiGHTS into dreams..." or some variation of that, with or without the ellipses. --Tristam 22:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Tristam. Although it's already been changed, 'NiGHTS' is the most common capitalization, and therefore the most recognized. I don't see that much of a point to change it, it's just more confusing and less accurate in my opinion. NNR07 17:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice... I think that the title NiGHTS into dreams.../Dreams... should be the title, mainly because it's on the box art and because it is refered to it in the manual like that. It's also the most popular usage of the word (NiGHTS). SuperSonic 19:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What is on the box art wrt capitalization is completely irrelevant. Please read WP:MOSTM and WP:MOSCAPS.    The elipsis issue is probably a WP:MOSTM issue as well, but, that is not as clear.  You are not likely to find any concensus in the wikipedia community to mix case within a common language word, no matter how it is presented by the trademark owners. Neier 22:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Claris Sinclair
It's debatable whether Claris ever auditioned before her post-NiGHTS encounter audition where she blew them away. It's possible she just showed great foresight in what the judges would look like. After all, why would she have two auditions? More likely she was worrying about the audition the next day in the nightmare. I am wasting my life.


 * lol, someones reading this so dont worry, unless we're both wasting our lives o_O
 * It might have been the recall she was worrying about, or she knew what the looked like because they're famous directors (one does look like Spielberg)Gskdreamer 07:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Nights and pronouns
Nights is usually referred to as "he", both by fans and in various games, particularly as a cameo in various Sonic games. This is indisputable information(almost as much as Sonic can become Super Sonic), and it is not weasel words. If you played Sonic Riders, a game co-produced by Naka, many Nights "purists" would be angered by the announcer referring to Nights like a male. This is not something that interferes with the androgynous theme. Male pronouns are commonly used for any living entity that is androgynous. So, where is the argument?


 * That gets no argument from me. I didn't remove your edit, but I suppose it was deleted because of how it was incorporated into the article rather than what it said: it repeated the fact stated at the start of the section, then the reference to Sonic Riders wasn't explained. You don't need to add a full explanation defending the use of "he" - all that's needed is to include the word "androgynous" once, then use "he" throughout, and the reader will get it. -- Nick RTalk 10:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Might I just add, NiGHTS in the new game is voiced by a female, but still reminds androgynous, according to SEGA. NiGHTS should be refered to as 'he', or whatever article was first used. 'It', I would deem, inappropriate and confusing. NNR07 20:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Miyamoto Quote
Shigeru Miyamoto, the creater of Mario, has said that “If there is one game that I wished I had made, it would have been Nights” - urgh I cant find a reliable source for it. Any help? Gskdreamer 13:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

How do you know he said that? Magazine, website, etc... If you could post where you think you saw it, then that could become a reference. Until them, I'm removing it: It was added as this: Even Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of Mario, said "If there is a game I would have loved to work on, it would be NiGHTS into Dreams..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daev (talk • contribs) 04:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Rumour on NiD.com- NiGHTS 2?
Considering how big the site nightsintodreams dot com is, and they've put up an update saying they know it's in production- should we mention it? Ayries 17:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems you know that website. Could you elaborate a bit more about it's reliability and/or notability? How good and reliable is their history of reports? JackSparrow Ninja 18:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I'd say very reliable personally- it's not as much of a news site as most, very fan oriented, but the owner from what I know is very close with Sega and so it's plausible she would have known... I'm not sure what fan sites are worth on wikipdia though? Ayries 19:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, the matter is that it is about reliability, and with sites sometimes failing this, notability is the next-big issue, such as is the case with IGN. Since a fansite, unless (often) cited by other reliable news outlets, usually fails notability, we need to know about the site's history of reliability. Could you tell a bit more about:
 * How detailed and correct is the information and news reports?
 * Have they reported incorrect news reports?
 * Have they had exclusive news reports before?
 * How did those turn out?
 * JackSparrow Ninja 19:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * They have never had exclusive news reports that I've seen. You can look back in their news, but there isn't much. --Becki900 05:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The fansite is owned and maintained by a 25-year-old girl called Lynne Triplett who lives in Edinburg, Scotland. What do you mean by very close to SEGA? 151.46.40.122 23:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The fact that she has indeed got contact for over a year now, and the fact that it's been press released. It's easier to contact someone who lives near SEGA's HQ than it is someone who lives in teh States. NNR07 19:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The reliability of the site is very questionable. Where the site has a lot of media such as box art and music and articles the website's maintainer also mixes in a lot of her own fanart and fanfiction, so much so people have confused it for real game information. She also has personal information and a personal diary on the site, it's not devoted entirely to gaming and thus really shouldn't be considered a "gaming site". --Becki900 05:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

External Links Vandalism
Just wanted to point out, there's a vandal that's been deleting the site NiGHTS Into Dreams.com from the external links section due to personal reasons. Should there be a semi-lock for this case? NNR07 19:28, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The vandal is that wretch, Cyrus XIII. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.44.207.62 (talk) 08:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. I seem to have figured that out. I even gave a link worth merit, and it still got deleted >>. NNR07 21:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Um... why does someone keep deleting the link to my NiGHTS fansite? (._.) (www.dreamsthunder.com/nightopia) What did I do? And why haven't the other fansites been readded? There's content at mine now, and another update on the way. I'd have more up, but the site's a monster, so it's slow going. ~Dreams
 * 'Cause someone (not you xD; ) feels not using the talk page and editing blindly when they don't like a site is the right way to be. I added a site that was worth merit, and it was still deleted. It's more "I no liek this" than "I don't see a reason why this should be here". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.48.10 (talk) 21:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Link329.jpg
Image:Link329.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 21:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Wii release?
This may seem like a bit of a silly question, but why is a Wii version listed in the release dates? I'm quite sure a Wii version wasn't released in US on the 18th of December... and there's no source either, so is this just a mistake? SuperLink9 (talk) 00:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes it. The sequal was release for the Wii on the date ans someone obviously got the two games confused. --70.48.110.52 (talk) 20:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Realas own Wikipedia page
Like NiGHTS character description page only Reala being his equal and more than just a boss character than he was in the first game, Reala should have a character profile page. 86.148.87.3 (talk) 20:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Nights.jpg
Image:Nights.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Nights Links
I've put offical ones first then the fan sites in order of popularity and size - how can anyone take out nid.com is beyond me (though dreamsthunder is looking good, theres nothing there yet...)Gskdreamer 09:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone seems to be deleting all the links and keeping just the two GHZ links in there. Added the NiD.com one back in. I hope no one is deleting it just in spite of TRiPPY -_-. NNR07 20:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Mmkay. Someone keeps removing it. If someone has a beef with TRiPPY, STOP REMVOING IT. Come to the talk page and discuss. NNR07 11:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Are fansites allowed or not? I keep hearing different things and it'd be nice to have a straight answer so I know if the fansite link should be removed or if it's okay to add a few more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.230.68.192 (talk) 18:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Fansites
There is one fansite, nightsintodreams.com, that gets mass coverage along the community AND often has contact with SEGA themselves. They're a cornerstone for all things NiGHTS. I really suggest that someone add it to the external links. NNR07 (talk) 14:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Who's been naming it "Nights"?
It's "NiGHTS". 208.101.155.204 04:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's also the Wikipedia Manual of Style. - Cyrus XIII 04:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay. Do it if you must, but keep it to the name of the article, not the actual content IN the article. 208.101.155.204 13:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That is not going to happen due to the mostm and the cleart cousensus on the requested move above. --67.71.77.222 06:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Why can't it? 'NiGHTS' is his proper name. It's only the TITLE that the rule falls for, not the article itself. NNR07 17:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Where it states that it only applies to title? The whole article must use proper grammar. The trademarked title could be mentioned in the lead, but nowhere else. --Mika1h 11:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * NNR07 is correct on his statement, NiGHTS is the proper name. This is known to all who know it well. According to the Wikipedia Manual of Style, this is addressed: "but, don't invent new formats: For the standardized test, SAT is standard English, while "Sat" is essentially never used." NiGHTS is not to be confused with the plural form of night. However, when shortening the title of the game, or referring to the character, Nights would be the suitable naming convention. -- MarMink 14:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

It's officially NiGHTS guys. That's even what it has in the subtitles in JOD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.249.173.210 (talk) 06:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That is well known by everyone in this debate but that that spelling was rejected for the article because it violates the WP:MOSTM stating that proper cpaitalisation must be used ven if the trademark holder consider nonstandard formatting official. In short NiGHTS being offical is not a good enough reason to use that spelling. Trust me when I say if this was simply an issue of people not knowing the offical name the article would have been moved back a long time ago. --70.24.179.2 (talk) 03:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

"Trademarked" as NiGHTS
The article states that the title is trademarked as "NiGHTS into Dreams..." but standard character trademarks don't include capitalization, at least in the United States (capitalization is considered a graphical element and covered under separate design/style trademarks for logos and symbols). Is Japanese trademark law any different? Can we get a link to a record for the relevant trademark? I'm going to change "trademarked as" to "written as" until we can get clarification. Ibadibam (talk) 01:35, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Someone's Mistake
Someone put: In recent weeks, a japanese magazine (known in the gaming industry for their truthful rumors) announced that a newly independent game developer will be coming out with a new video game for the nintendo Wii. the game, in which you play as a clown-like magician flying through the sky.many people have interpretid this rumor as a new nights into dreams video game. for more information, check out http://revolution.ign.com/articles/702/702606p1.html.

It's already there! Famitsu, the most popular Japanese gaming magazine reported it. And you made a lot of typo errors.

Box Art?
Someone needs to upload box art from Japan and the U.S/Europe for NiGHTS and Christmas NiGHTS.

Removed Content
The following has been removed for not being true.

"It is heavily rumoured due to a slip at Microsoft's 'Summer of Xbox Live Arcade' event that Sega would be porting NiGHTS onto Xbox 360 via Xbox Live Arcade. The game will apparently be the first Live Arcade title to be a larger size than 64MB and therefore not able to fit on a standard Xbox 360 memory card, further cementing rumours that Microsoft will be releasing a larger sized memory card in the future. The release is also apparently scheduled for September and will include online play and achievement points; the price is as yet underdetermined but is likely to cost between 800 and 1200 MS Points. It was also mentioned that 'Christmas NiGHTS' will also be released as an expansion for the game sometime in December."

pink jewel case
a mention/picture of the big pink diamond shaped jewel case that the game came in in other countries would be cool

Should I add a section about NiD.com?
Do you guys think I should add a section to this article about Nightsintodreams.com? It's not just another fansite, the community has been able to change SEGA's decision about things regarding NiGHTS, made awesome fan projects like NiGHTS: Luid Dreaming, and find out insider stuff on the game's creation. So should I add a section about the history of the site, it's achivements, etc.?

On that note, should i create an article on TRiPPY (aka Lynne Triplett)? As much as I hate her, I think she's important around the world to receive her own article.SailorSonic

Ref idea
czar ⨹   18:08, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Edge retrospective

Further appearances
Is the Further appearances section worth mentioning this article? It seems like mostly WP:GAMECRUFT to me and doesn't offer any encyclopaedic value. Would anyone object if I removed it? JAG UAR   15:18, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * All that junk, and you pick the cited and notable area to delete? lol, wow.  No, the "Characters" section should be reduced to one small paragraph in "Story". Gameplay should be cut by 1/3 or so WP:GAMEGUIDE.  Improper use of pull quotes; use  instead.  "Further appearances" should be called "Legacy", and I don't see anything wrong with it and everything right with it.  Thanks. — Smuckola(talk) 16:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * At least three quarters of the further appearances section is gamecruft. "In this stage, Sonic must face off against the aforementioned Deadly Six in boss fights, each of the fights being from the game, albeit reskinned with boss characters from Nights Into Dreams", "A minigame version of Nights into Dreams... is playable utilising the Nintendo GameCube-to-Game Boy Advance connectivity with Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II". How is that relevant to the article and how would it make sense to a reader? That's not a legacy. I don't understand what you meant by "All that junk, and you pick the cited and notable area to delete? lol, wow". I haven't removed anything yet, I just wanted some advice on if it would be worth removing the cruft from the section I'm talking about, as I can't find any sources for half of it.  JAG  UAR   17:54, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay those can be consolidated into a summary sentence or a few sentences if you keep the citations (if there are any). For example, "Nights characters appear in several other developers' games, such as ..." and so on, for all the types of appearances it makes, with citations.  But yeah they are the definition of a legacy.  Legacy is "what came after this, because of this".  It's demonstrative of the subject's notability, to indicate that other artists were moved by it.  That's literally what a legacy is.  I haven't the foggiest idea why you'd ask how they're relevant to the article or make sense to the reader, because that's just by definition what it is.  That question doesn't make any sense, sorry.  And see everything else I said.  Finally, please immediately stop any and all editing that you're doing right now, create your own sandbox document instead (and propose that here first as a draft, if it's drastic or questionable etc), and utilize the 'preview' button.  Thanks. — Smuckola(talk) 18:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll see what I can do about writing a legacy section once I gather the sources. Just curious, why do you want me to stop editing the article? I've already got a sandbox with some content from this article and I'll utilize it when the time comes. JAG  UAR   18:09, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

What the hell are you doing? JAG  UAR   18:12, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * For God's sake, Smuckola, you're not the dictator of Wikipedia!TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 18:28, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Rename
The ellipsis is in the official title, perhaps, but a quick look at the most reliable sources in the refs section show that they're not using the ellipsis when discussing the game. So I think we should drop the ellipsis as well. (If you want, you can leave it in the stylization, but I haven't looked hard enough to see whether a source supports that as a noteworthy aspect to mention.) czar  02:26, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

A-Life info
Developer interview newly translated on shmuplations. Great source for some info: http://shmuplations.com/alife/ TarkusAB  22:37, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Marioedit's response
I think Nights into Dreams... is a good game! I am going to play it when I get a Personal Computer (PC)! Marioedit8 (talk) 00:50, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Burning Rangers
I think Burning Rangers deserves a spot in related games. It is the only other Sega Saturn game to use the NiGHTS engine. Also BR has the same gems as used in the NiGHTS logo, as an additional homage. Any objections? 73.90.210.162 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:07, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Was Nights really developed in the United States?
I want to open this fact up for dispute on a few different points. I challenge that this wasn't really the case. Any leads on how we can address these concerns? Red Phoenix talk  21:43, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make sense. Work on Sega Technical Institute and Sonic Team has shown that Naka left the US in 1994 and returned to Japan.  There is even a quote in this article about returning to work with Ohshima.  Why would he return to the US after that, especially given his fights with STI on Sonic X-treme, in development at the same time?
 * It's not supported. The source in this article for that quote makes no mention of Nights being developed in the States.  In fact, it's not anywhere to be found - not on the internet, not in game magazines that I've researched, nowhere.  The only place I did find it was here, and for all that Ken Horowitz and Sega-16 have done to create great reference material, the absence of it anywhere else suggests this is likely an error on his part.
 * This is a featured article. Accuracy and verifiability are paramount here.  If we can't verify this fact, it's open to challenge.  For all the varieties of ways video games, especially classic ones such as Nights get coverage, it's going to take more than one retrospective source to back this up.
 * Huh. I'm not sure why I never questioned Horowitz's claim. (I'm also not sure how the blatant source falsification that you discovered made it through this article's FAC review; Jaguar routinely gets away with that sort of thing during the GAN process, but I would have hoped that FAs are held to a higher standard.) I guess I somehow imagined that Naka was working at STI in parallel with the Sonic X-treme team during the period that the latter requested Naka's Nights engine and was rebuffed; it's possible that I also took this Wikipedia article to provide "corroboration" of Horowitz's account. But you're right—Naka returning to the U.S. shortly after being offered a producer position in Japan doesn't make a whole lot of sense on its face, and the sourcing is weak.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 01:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I checked some Japanese Sega Saturn Magazine sources, figuring they weren't checked yet, and I think I found a good quote. Check page 44 of Sega Saturn Magazine (JP) April 26, 1996 issue. Half-way down the first column, Naka says:
 * 「ソニック」の後、僕はSOA「セガ　オブ　アメリカ」　に４年間に在住して、今回サターンをやるてめに日本に戻ってきたんです. で、帰国する飛行機に乗っている時に漢然と「あ、次は空を飛ぶゲームを作りたいな」と思ったんです.
 * This translates to: "After Sonic 1, I resided with Sega of America for 4 years. This time, to make a Saturn game, I returned to Japan. When on my return trip back home, I thought 'Oh, let'a make a game where you fly in the sky.'" He uses the verb 帰国する when talking of his return flight to Japan which means "to return to one's home country" which sounds a lot more final than just visiting Japan. He gives a similar story in this interview at 1:15, where he uses the verb 帰る when talking about his flight home, which means "to return home". TarkusAB talk 12:57, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, and further above he says そこで大島と一緒にやるために日本に帰ってきたわけです. 　Or..."So that is why I came back to Japan to work with Ohshima." TarkusAB talk 13:32, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The only thing I found that might support this is this GamesTM article, and only because Naka said "NiGHTS was the last title I contributed to as a main programmer and also the time that a position as a producer started to become clear." To our understanding, Naka returned to Japan to take a producer position at CS3, which eventually became Sonic Team.  But, that position becomes moot if he did both on this game, which this Wikipedia article seems to indicate.   Red Phoenix  talk  13:44, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Naka is credited as producer in the interview I linked above. TarkusAB talk 14:25, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * More info: Revision 693118548 is the offending revision that added this fact, and only this fact, cited to the source that doesn't really back it.  Furthermore, an old source stripped from this article (likely because it's from SonicRetro, even though it's a copy paste of an interview) seems to indicate the opposite - Naka specifies work began on NiGHTS right after finishing Sonic & Knuckles, and that he was returning to Japan from the USA at the time.  Red Phoenix  talk  13:58, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds like this supports the Japan theory. Given the sources we've gathered here, I'd say the game was most definitely developed in Japan. TarkusAB talk 14:25, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll leave this open for another day or two. If there are no objections at that point, I will strike the comment. It's a shame is not around anymore; I would like to have heard from him on this matter. Red Phoenix talk  22:23, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I read in your GA review of this article that you stated “this game was developed in the US but not Japan” but was unsure if you meant Nights or X-treme. Can you elaborate on this matter for us?  Red Phoenix  talk  01:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't remember since the review was done quite a while ago. The article changed a lot after the FA review. I am sorry I can't really help. AdrianGamer (talk) 05:03, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so we are all agree so far, so I will strike the statement from the article. If evidence comes up for its development, it can always be reinstated if need be. Red Phoenix talk  06:59, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 * A worthy of note mention: Ken Horowitz published a book this year called The Sega Arcade Revolution: A History in 62 Games. In it, he does say that Naka returned to Japan and that he oversaw Nights into Dreams there.  So, it appears that Horowitz corrected his mistake in the book.  Just some more backing to our claim.   Red Phoenix  talk  16:46, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

This is obviously an old conversation by now, but I think I tracked down where Horowitz' bad claim came from, if it ever comes up again. In his other book, Playing at the Next Level, Horowitz repeats the bad claim and cites it to an issue of Sega Saturn Magazine. That section is supposedly translated from an interview Naka did with another Japanese magazine that SSM doesn't specify, and Naka says he went back to Japan after "the second Sonic game" to work with Ohshima. I'm assuming maybe this caused some confusion on when Naka went back in light of his work with Sonic 3 as well and that maybe some things were assumed incorrectly, like perhaps Horowitz thought he brought Ohshima with him back to the US or something. Who knows if Naka made a trip back to Japan; we do know he did consult with Ohshima while he was in the US. Regardless, it's not in the source he cites, so I'm guessing he assumed wrong and recognized this and corrected it in his second book. Red Phoenix talk  23:17, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * And I know, another random note on a long-settled matter, but given we just had Naka-STI controversy at List of Sonic Team games, it’s worth mentioning. Horowitz actually went and corrected the article we linked above about Naka supposedly developing Nights at STI, which we all know is false.  So, he’s rectified the disputed source.  Red Phoenix  talk  17:34, 25 July 2022 (UTC)