Talk:Nikephoros III Botaneiates

Inconsistent citation format
This is a minor error, but one that should be resolved if the article is to become a GA or higher. The article uses a mix of cite book and citation, which render the sources differently (commas instead of full stops, for one thing). One or the other should be chosen for all sources. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Iazyges   Consermonor   Opus meum  20:26, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Chronography of the Revolt
There is considerable confusion over the chronology of Nikephoros Botaneiates' rise to the Byzantine throne on this page, across the various language versions of the page, and across other Wikipedia pages which address the same subject.

The amount of different dates I have now seen for each stage borders on comical. For example, sources/pages variously give the start of his revolt as June 1077, July 1077, October 1077, November 1077, January 1078, and (as this page currently has it) July 1078. I won't bother running through the various contradictory dates for Botaneiates' entry into Nicaea or the contemporary revolt of Bryennios the Elder.

As best I can understand things, and this is mostly going off of Eric McGeer's footnotes in his recently-published translation of the Skylitzes Continuatus, these contradictions have emerged from differences between the Histories of John Skylitzes, Michael Attaleiates, and Nikephoros Bryennios the Younger. He admits furthermore that "The chronology of Botaneiates' acclamation is not fully coherent". However, he states with something of an air of authority that Botaneiates began his revolt in October 1077 and Bryennios the Elder in November 1077, and that the date of his entry into Constantinople was indeed March 24, 1078 (as this page currently has it).

It seems worthwhile for an experienced editor to comprehensively go through all of these pages and at least make sure they are offering consistent information. The claims on this page about revolts beginning in July/October 1078 which cite an online 'Encyclopedia of Roman Emperors' are certainly incorrect given the unanimous agreement elsewhere that Michael VII was overthrown by March 1078.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.168.5.157 (talk) 17:37, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Quite a mess indeed. I think the article should at least mention these contradictions, because it's really confusing. That said, I think these are all the main dates on the matter:


 * 2 July 1078 [1077] — "Receiving the acclamations of his authority by all on the second day of the month of July, of the first indiction." (Att. 27.4) This date is problematic since it doesn't match with the rest of the chronology, unless the indiction is wrong. In his Notes on the Eleventh-Century Chronology, Polemis argues that this (or 2 June) was Nikephoros' "true" date of coronation (in 1078). This is the one shown in the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, even though it contradicts both Attaleiates and the Continuatus.
 * 3 October 1078 [1077] — "They acclaimed the kouropalates Nikephoros Botaneiates emperor in the month of October of the first indiction... On the third day of the month of October, when Botaneiates was about to pitch his imperial tent, a sudden light flashed through the air." (Skyl. Cont. 6.28)
 * 7 Jan. 1078 — "[The Senate] declared Botaneiates emperor; this was on the day after the candlelit procession of Epiphany; even though he was still in his hometown." (Att. 32.2)
 * 24 March 1078 — "On the eve of the day of the Annunciation to the Mother of God [...] They deposed the emperor Michael". (Att. 32.15) The Continuatus uses the same date, but for a different event: "[Constantinople] proclaimed Bonateiates emperor". (Skyl. Cont. 6.37) This seems to be the only date explicitly corroborated by another source (Kleinchroniken 1, 162)... well, assuming the chronicle it's not directly inspired by Attaleiates.
 * 27 March 1078 — "And they kept the City in order without a ruler for three days [until Nikephoros' entrance]". (Att. 32.17) In the Continuatus it would be 3 April.
 * 31 March 1078 — "They deposed the reigning emperor Michael [...] on the same Sunday [Saturday] when the miracle performed on Lazarus is celebrated." (Skyl. Cont. 6.38)
 * 1 April 1078 — "On Palm Sunday... the whole Senate [...] was awarded [by Nikephoros]". (Att. 33.3)
 * 3 April 1078 — "Shortly afterwards he himself entered on Holy Tuesday and received the crown from the hands of the Patriarch." (Skyl. Cont. 7.1) This is the date used by Polemis and the ODB, although it contradicts Attaleiates. The 2019 translation gives the date as 27 March, but Easter fell on 8 April, not 1... Maybe Attaleiates made the same mistake? or maybe the Continuatus is the one wrong? Both sources do agree that Nikephoros entered the city on a Tuesday and three days after the deposition of Michael VII.

I put this here because I don't know where else to put it. --- Tintero21 (talk) 02:32, 15 November 2021 (UTC)