Talk:Nikki and Paulo/Archive 1

=Nikki Fernandez=

Supporting Character
Given the small role they have, Nikki and Paulo should be listed as supporting characaters instead of main characters as Bernard and Rose, who are much more prominent are listed as supporting characters.

This is very true! They were in, like, what - 3 episodes? They may not even qualify as 'supporting'!! L. Scott Caldwell is listed in the credits with the main cast, yet Rose is still not considered a main character.

New page
I didn't think it was too soon to make it, being that the character is a regular, but I suppose a deletion would make sense being that she and Paulo had absolutely NOTHING in the episode at all. Hopefully there will be an ABC promo up tomorrow that can be put as a picture. Jwebby91 03:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

w00t! Since Shannon died there's been a definite loss in the sex factor for the show... hopefully this blonde bombshell will turn up the heat in episodes to come ^_^ SilverNightFire 12:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Main character?
Should Nikki and Paulo still be considered main characters? They've been pretty much written out of the show. Looks like the writers didn't like the critical backlash against them. 64.81.81.116 07:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * They are in the main credits at the start of every episode and 3x14 is their flashback episode so they are main characters by Wikipedia standards. (They are returing in Tricia Tanaka is Dead.)  --thedemonhog 02:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Still guest stars as of 3x14
According to ABCmedianet.com as of episode 14 Nikki and Paulo are still guest stars.

Since this is their FLASHBACK episode, I don't think they should be counted as main characters. User:Gothicfrog
 * They are in the main credits on-screen. --thedemonhog talk contributions 04:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If Rose and Bernard are supporting characters, so are Nikki and Paulo. 63.215.28.84 12:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Aristoi 16:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * They are on the main poster, they are listed at the titular credits along with Matthew Fox, etc. They are considered main characters. Depressed Marvin 01:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't care where their names are listed, a main character is somebody who has a major impact on the story. Remember Nikki's comment to Zukerman about guest characters getting killed? The writers are basically admitting she's not a main character and never was. 63.215.28.84 17:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

No, a main character is someone who is featured along with the main cast. She isn't credited with the guest stars, but with the main stars. That's more proof than an interpretation of a quote from the series. Depressed Marvin 01:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I reject your definition. It's convenient, but it doesn't make sense. A main character should be defined in terms of the story, not the glory the actor receives. 63.215.29.15 18:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You may reject the definition, but that is enough qualification to make them a main character. It is the only clear cut definition as of yet and that is why it stands. Other guest stars who end up becoming main characters are commonly moved to the main cast and given a proper credit (i.e. The Janitor on Scrubs). She is credited along with the main cast and therefore she IS a main character under the prevailing definition. Until there is a widespread change or a clearly defined change in Wikipedia policy as to what a main character is, that is the definition that will continue to be used. Diemunkiesdie 22:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I should add (something I didn't know) that according to ABC they are guest stars, and as such, under our definition and Wikipedia policy (to use documented sources) they are not main characters. As above I was incorrect to say she was a main character, but for future conversations I stand by the definition that if they are in the main credits and not listed as guest stars, they are main characters. If there is documentation from the network, producers, etc. that they are in the main credits but are not main characters, then and only then, can they be removed from a main character list. Diemunkiesdie 22:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

If the Wikipedia policy defines Nikki as a main character, that policy needs to be re-evaluated, because it doesn't make sense. Nikki has had less impact on the story than Rose; therefore, if Rose is a supporting character, Nikki cannot be a main character. Kiele Sanchez may be one of the main actors, but Nikki Fernandez is not one of the main characters. 63.215.29.15 01:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not the policy that should be re-evaluated, it's the people who make the credits for LOST. They credit Nikki and Paulo as main characters, but not Rose and Bernard. They were intended for a bigger part, and therefore were added to the main cast. Your argument collapses on itself. Whatever your opinion or level of understanding is does not affect anything. -Depressed Marvin
 * Nonsense. You practically make my point for me: they were intended for a bigger part, but they didn't get it. The Wikipedia should reflect what really happened, not what the creators intended to happen. And what really happened is that Nikki and Paulo failed to become main characters. 63.215.29.15 23:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm convinced my position makes more sense, but I think it's time to put this to a vote. I've posted a message on the Talk page for the upcoming episode. If I lose or nobody cares enough to respond, I'll drop it; if I win, I'll request we move forward with making the change. The question is: Should Nikki and Paulo be listed as main characters or supporting characters? I say supporting. (I'm guessing most people will fail to see my logic and I'll be out-voted, but we'll see.) 63.215.28.84 02:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Nikki and Paulo were listed as main characters in the opening credits, therefore they are main characters. Or at least, they were main characters for over half a season. We should go by the conventional, consensual definition (i.e., being listed in the opening credits), not by subjective preference. Aridd 15:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

All right, it's been a day and a half, I declare the polls to be closed; no need to drag this out. (Completely different IP address today, but it's still me. You'll have to take my word for it.) The result is a tie: 1-1. Which means I'm one vote away from winning, one vote away from losing, and one vote away from realizing that nobody cares but me. Net results: 1 vote for making the change, 2 votes for shutting the hell up. And that's a wrap. 209.247.5.49 21:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Alive/Dead

 * someone wrote, "However, she will later escape her grave, as she credited up to episode 20 of season 3. See, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0760989/filmoseries#tt0411008"

please dont write things like this as IMDB is a user-edited website.- Russell29
 * So is Wikipedia. So I guess nothing on this site can be verified as well.--Hndsmepete 21:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Kiele Sanchez and Rodrigo Santoro have confirmed that their characters are indeed dead. Depressed Marvin 16:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Live Together, Die Alone

 * Where was Nikki in this episode as this article claimes she was in it? Russell29 15:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I assume the person means it was a flashback filmed for Exposé(Black Dalek 18:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

There's a deleted scene that shows Nikki and Paulo (during a flashback from Exposé) during the closing moments of Live Together, Die Alone. Go here to look at the promotional pictures for this episode--Animé Dan 13:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge with Paulo (Lost)
It was suggested in the featured article nomination discussion for Paulo (Lost) that this page be merged with that one. At the time, I said it was a bad idea, but that was just because I was afraid that the proposal would jeapordise my chances of the article passing FA. It did and I have worked on merging the articles (it was very easy) at my sandbox: User:Thedemonhog/Sandbox. If we gain consensus or if nobody replies in one week, I will merge the articles. --thedemonhog talk • edits 18:09, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose: I don't like the idea of having two people merged into one article. They were both starring characters (even though they didn't appear many times) and deserve their own articles. Why should they be merged just because they were dating, and therefore together alot. -- Russell29 19:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The reason is because their articles will be almost identical. --thedemonhog talk • edits 20:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose: I've checked out the merged version in your sandbox, and the majority of the info seems to be about Paulo, with even (an) entire section(s) solely about him, eg. "Casting". This makes me inclined to oppose: although they are mainly associated with each other, they are different characters and have somewhat different info. I think merging to two just confuses the matter. • 97198  talk  16:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What's different about them? Yes, it is true that the casting is about Paulo, but that's because I could not find much about casting Kiele Sanchez.  --thedemonhog talk • edits 18:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The difference is that they're different characters. Their appearances on Lost weren't solely based around (or in association with) each other. Not everything about them can be written together; this I find makes them deserving of their own articles. • 97198  talk  02:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Their appearances were mostly based around each other. --thedemonhog talk • edits 23:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If you're going to merge Nikki's and Paulo's articles together, then maybe you should do the same with Rose and Bernard's articles? Their appearances are mostly based around each other, both are similar characters, both also don't appear that often....maybe even the same for Boone and Shannon, or Michael and Walt.--Animé Dan 13:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I see the point that you are trying to make, but Nikki and Paulo actually did everything together. Rose and Bernard were separated until day 49, Shannon outlived Boone for several episodes, and Walt was captured by the Others and absent for much of season 2.  --thedemonhog talk • edits 00:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Full support This is a great idea. They are two different characters, but there's no reason two characters cannot share one article. Having an individual article is not, in any way, a sign of importance or status. It is simply one of many ways we organize information. This information is better organized, for editors and readers, as a single article. -- Ned Scott 04:26, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd support the merge so long as it helps both articles together. The idea that "they are two starring characters and should be separate" isn't good enough, because they may have starred in the series, but they weren't that major. How many episodes did they appear in? They were linked together. It's the same reason we have a Ma and Pa Kent article, instead of two separate articles. They two are major in an of themselves, but not they don't have enough individual information to really warrant two separate pages. Bignole 04:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have updated my sandbox to include more information about Kiele Sanchez. The article is never going to get any bigger, so are there any further objections?  --thedemonhog talk • edits 22:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * None from me. Though I might call it "Paulo and Nikki Fernandez (sp)", since she is minor in the article compared to Paulo. Does Paulo have a last name? Because I assume you put her first to avoid the appearance that they share a last name. Bignole 00:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That's why and also because they are usually referred to as "Nikki and Paulo" and not "Paulo and Nikki." --thedemonhog talk • edits 02:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Support - I think they should remain separate on the template, however, as it would look a little awkward with "Nikki and Paulo" as one name on the main characters list. Have them link separately to "Paulo (Lost)" and to "Nikki Fernandez," with them redirected to "Nikki Fernandez and Paulo." It'll keep things neater, I think. Jwebby91 01:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that they should be separate on the template, but they will be linked to Nikki Fernandez and Paulo. --thedemonhog talk • edits 02:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

=Paulo (Lost)=

Supporting Character
Given the small role they have, Nikki and Paulo should be listed as supporting characaters instead of main characters as Bernard and Rose, who are much more prominent are listed as supporting characters. --203.81.206.136 22:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Gay and last name
This article says Paulo is gay. I'd like to know the source of that information. Also, could Paulo's last name be Ospero or a variant of that? Shades of Shakespeare's "Tempest." I have a feeling that the key to the entire "Lost" experience is a passenger that has not yet been shown on screen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.172.32.19 (talk)


 * He's not gay. That was just some vandalism.  His last name is still unknown.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 20:49, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Nikki?
This article also says that Nikki is his girlfriend, and though it may be implied i don't know if it should be posted until it's confirmed on the show aside a few vague conversations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.157.20.130 (talk)


 * The producers, and a deleted scene from Further Instructions, confirmed that they are boyfriend and girlfriend. --thedemonhog 02:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Main characters?
Should Nikki and Paulo still be considered main characters? They've been pretty much written out of the show. Looks like the writers didn't like the critical backlash against them. 64.81.81.116 07:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * They are in the main credits at the start of every episode and 3x14 is their flashback episode so they are main characters by Wikipedia standards. (They are returing in Tricia Tanaka is Dead.) --thedemonhog 02:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think they should be removed from Main Characters. They were only focused on in ONE EPISODE. Bernard and Rose had a flashback AND they were in more than one season. How come they aren't considered main characters while Nikki and Paulo are?--69.242.175.18 09:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The current Lost Wikiproject consensus is that anyone who was credited with the "Starring" credit is a main character, however there are many who share your opinion and it is likely that an exception will be made for Nikki and Paulo soon. --thedemonhog talk • edits • count  16:56, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Both Paulo and Nikki appear on the season poster and both appear on the 3d season DVD box set art. More importantly the TV Show stated they were main caracters since they were regulars and were listed as "Starring" from episode 3.01 to 3.14.--Morpheos 23:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Layout of character biography?
Why is Paulo's page layed out differently to the others? It's kinda weird that his is the only page that explains everything in one chunk, rather than separating his past life from his present. --Animé Dan 11:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm working on this page a lot because it is so short - and it doesn't need to be any longer. I have added many references, have started a reception section and will be starting a characterization section, as I will attempt to eventually get this to featured article status.  As for why the history is in one chunk is because I the prior to the crash section was only a couple sentences and it reads fine without splitting the history section.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 00:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Buried alive
It wasn't shown that HE was buried alive... Nikki did open her eyes at the end... but Paulo got bitten more then once... who knows what kind of a effect that would have... she only got bitten once... -Xornok 04:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * He was only bitten once on the neck by the female spider that she threw... and it was implied that he was buried alive along with Nikki --Animé Dan 06:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Xornok. If one bite from that spider could paralyze for 8 hours, then being swarmed by them could probably kill someone.  I don't see them ever imply that they were both buried alive.  Indeed, it may have been intended as poetic justice that Paulo was spared the same horrible fate as Nikki, considering that she was directly responsible for his death.  Jkoudys 23:43, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There's a source in the article that says that she is indeed dead. --thedemonhog talk contributions 20:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * They are not implying that Nikki is alive, just that she was alive when she was buried. (Rekija 23:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC))

Iconic characters of the show
''We had a plan when we introduced them, and we didn't get to fully execute that plan. But when the plan is executed, Nikki and Paulo will be iconic characters on the show.''. That's really, really, weird. What do we make of this / do we add it in? ~ZytheTalk to me! 18:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, yeah I have seen that quote. I've written most of this article and am planning to add that to the creation section.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 03:04, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Peer review
The article's shaping up really well. Maybe after season three is over you should attempt an FA.~ZytheTalk to me! 12:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yay! Thanks, that means a lot. :)  --thedemonhog talk contributions 14:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It is now being peer reviewed. See Peer review/Paulo (Lost)/archive1.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 22:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The peer review has been so far generally unsuccessful. I am going on vacation in Hong Kong from April 29-May 10 and plan to make this article a featured article candidate shortly after I return.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 04:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Section headers
At the moment it's "History" and "Characteristics" - would "Character history" and "Characterization" perhaps be better? I'm leaving it open to brief discussion rather than going ahead and changing it. ~ZytheTalk to me! 16:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's fine the way it is. The history is about the character so character history seems a bit redundant to me.  I like characterisitics, because characterization sounds like it's about how the actor is portraying the character.  Let's hear some other people, though.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 17:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it's not a huge deal. On WP:WAF they give several examples of articles which are good. Captain Marvel (DC Comics) uses "characterization" whereas Link (The Legend of Zelda) and Palpatine uses "characterization" (Characteristics works fro Link because it includes stuff about appearance, dexterity ec. but not for Paltaptine, so I'll just alter that). I suppose it all depends on the way it's written and what individual editors feel. The main difference in my opinion is that "characteristics" could be somewhat in-universe, whereas "characterization" enforces their fictionality and also lends more towards an out-of-universe, (sourced) analytical perspective of the way the character is written. But I agree, we should get a sort of loose consensus, although I suppose the peer review may allow comment on this. ~ZytheTalk to me! 17:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Featured article candidacy
In case you missed the top of the page, there is a debate at Featured article candidates/Paulo (Lost) or Featured_article_candidates. --thedemonhog talk contributions 21:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * To reduce the number of non-free images in this page, this image was removed: Image:Paulo_Paralyzed.jpg. Just thought I would post it here in case anyone wants to see it one last time before it is deleted.  --thedemonhog talk contributions 22:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Whoo-hoo! It was promoted to FA with 12 supports and 0 opposes!  Thank you to everyone who commented.  We are missing the little golden corner star right now, but someone will probably add it within the next day.  --thedemonhog talk • edits • count  05:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Nice work on making this a featured article. Lumaga 20:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge with Nikki Fernandez
In response to the FA, see Talk:Nikki Fernandez. --thedemonhog talk • edits 18:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)