Talk:Niko Bellic/Archive 1

Confirmed?
Is anyone sure this information is confirmed? --Jimbo Herndan 18:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is. Go check the GTA 4 talk page and article. ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 21:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this is a Hoax it's not even May the magazine didn't come out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)


 * Go check the GTA 4 talk page. ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 01:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I did i even went to the link says and it led me to a FAN SITE??? this is clearly a hoax it's not May this issue of Game Informmer never came out yet whoever started this rumor should stop! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)


 * Go google it, man. Stop this. ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 03:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. It has indeed been confirmed. Niko Bellic is the confirmed protagonist of GTA IV. End of story. .:Alex:. 06:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

End of story huh! So i'm to bleave that some guy got his info early and you put it on there! This is indead lame as google in the fansites is clearly hoaxing it's not May and means that the magizine never came out! What about that time i googled Claude SPeed and found a site that said Claudes name was Claude Speed and you said no thats a fan site! But all this info is from a fan site! Witch means it is a HOAX!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)


 * Dude, the freakin' site itself said it came from someone who got it from Game Informer. This is slowly becoming more and more juvenile. ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 18:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not a hoax, unless you know anyone who can perfectly fake an entire 10 page article of a magazine. .:Alex:. 12:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

This info came from Rockstar themselves. Sean mc Sean 13:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The info did not come from R* and the magazine didn't even come out yet till NEXT MONTH — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.114.250 (talk)


 * Notice how you're the only one who is contesting this. Man, this is ridiculous. Now everyone can see what I had to deal with for these past few months. ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 18:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I didn't bleave it at first but thanks to R* and Bill I finally bleaved it!(told you...you were rude)69.205.61.185 00:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I told you that from the beginning (told you....I was right). ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 00:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Well you did tell me but not really you see Bill told me details about it? So he got me inspired to pay a visit to Broadway and get these infos conformed! When I saw they were true i just had to come back here! And i'd like to say im sorry I doubted you Klyptzm.

Can Niko swim in the game?
 * Yes, it was confirmed he could swim to the Statue of Happiness and whatnot... - Bhavesh.Chauhan 00:25, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion
I say keep the article because the information can be verified. The source is the May 2007 copy of Game Informer. The magazine has been delivered to subscribers and will be on sale (at least in the US) on the 18th of April. More information on the game is advertised to be revealed in a future copy of Official Playstation Magazine in the UK so the article is likely to expand with more sourced information. ●BillPP (talk 03:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * One more thing, the speedy delete nomination was incorrectly used here. This reason is actually specifically quoted in the non-criteria section. ●BillPP (talk 03:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Speedy Delete
BillPP - you quite rightly point out that I did incorrectly nominate this article for Speedy based on a non criteria. For this I apologise; I have been run ragged reverting for the last few days, nominating things, and generally working myself into the floor. For the record - I WITHDRAW, effective immediately the nomination for speedy delete. However, I still point out to those involved with this article that Wikipedia is not a crustal ball. We do not allow material here normally which is about things which have not happened yet, such as the issue of things (See the edits made to Bachmann Thomas and Friends - here, people were adding toys to the collection which had not been released).

The main reason for this is that things change, stuff happens, and before we know it, we have an aritcle about something which may yet (maybe not in this case) get withdrawn, shelved or just for whatever reason, not happen. Please understand that this was not a bad faith nomination in any way, simply a FUBAR on my part.

Regards and apologies to all involved. Thor Malmjursson 03:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not a problem, anyone can make the mistake between the nominations. As far as the content goes for this article, myself and other editors are trying to ensure that material that goes into it is that which is released directly from Rockstar or from Rockstar through a magazine article. I think that due to the nature and scale of video games and GTAIV, it'd be incredibly unlikely that it would change drastically at this point. I will keep your comments in mind though and I recommend that other editors of this page do too. It is certainly best that not every piece of information that arises goes straight into the article. I think it is important when writing the article to emphasise that the information is from pre-release press releases, interviews, previews etc. ●BillPP (talk 04:13, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hoax/not hoax
Untill the time, we can read it on www.rockstargames.com (or on any official page), I suggest leaving the hoax template in the article. BTW the article has no sources yet. --195.56.25.64 21:56, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Umm, maybe you gone it through: "(...) His name was announced in the May 2007 issue of Game Informer.". Today is APRIL 15th. --195.56.224.237 18:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Pretty much every gaming magazine I've ever bought has come out in the month before the one it says on the cover. It's how it works. Read this: Magazines, in particular the line: The magazine will usually have a date on the cover which often times is later than the date it is actually published. May is later than April. ●BillPP (talk 18:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Exactly; I think I might have gotten my February issue of GI in December before. ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 19:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Well! R*'s offical page DOSEN'T HAVE THIS INFO! well thats what I heard. And R*'s really organized when it comes to making fans crazy with more and more info! So I think we should wait till R* makes it's move! Oh before I forget I can't find this so called Magazine so hah were did this info come from I know 1 guy started this rumor or truth!--Tommy Montana 03:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I don't understand "sockpuppet." ♣ Klptyzm  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 04:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppet? Don't you know who I am? it's me your friend have you forgotten....Ahh oh well lets get back to the article!--Tommy Montana 04:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know. You're Butterrum. Also, you're still wrong about the May issue. I just got it and everything in the article is in the Game Informer issue, so please stop this. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 04:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

So i'm Butterrum huh? Is that a nickname from you to me?--Tommy Montana 07:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

An end to the hoax debate
Here are at least THIRTY reliable news sources to lay the doubters to rest. Yeanold Viskersenn 14:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Thats not gonna work. That will just bring us back where we started. And you know we don't need that? We need the offical GTA page to unfold this sometimes magazines lie! And I know you already know that! Google can sometimes bring up false info and can cause the page to be completely ruined!--Tommy Montana 16:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The information in Game Informer is an official preview, all the information was sold to GI by Rockstar. If it was all made up/stolen information then we'd be hearing about a lawsuit now. If you don't trust one reliable source then why trust any? Game Informer is good source. The only issue here is whether the information in the article is likely to change by the time the game is released. (e.g. Similar to Windows Vista's content and release date change). ●BillPP (talk 16:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Tommy M - If we only included information that came directly from the official GTA site then we would pretty much just have the name of the game and its release date. Yeanold Viskersenn 22:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Bill- Thank you for bring that up that just gives me the right kind of information to understand. Yeanold- Yeah but theres got to be the info from GI on there right?--Tommy Montana 23:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I though you already agreed that it was true, Butterrum. Or are you just doing this to try to make it seem as if you're not a sockpuppet? ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 23:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Whats a matter with this guy are you are you kidding me or what?--Tommy Montana 04:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

picture
I changed the picture. because there are new official screen shots of GTA IV in gaming sites (such as gamespot and ign), and because the old trailer screen-cap was LQ. Chegis 12:53, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well could you perhaps resize it to the size of the previous image? There's a reason why it's that size... and plus there is consistency with the other protagonist's images. - .:Alex:. 19:39, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Can someone please replace the pronunciation with the proper Serbian pronunciation? It makes no sense to render the English pronunciation into IPA, for English speakers. As a native speaker of Russian, I hypercorrect his name to [njiˌko bjelj,itʃ] --88.193.241.224 14:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * First off, who said he's Russian? Second, in my opinion, any attempt to interpret the punctuation of his name is an act of OR, since we haven't heard the name out of any character's mouth. Basically, both pronunciations should be removed and kept out the article. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 16:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. - .:Alex:. 17:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I implied that his name was Serbian, hence the -ic and the name Niko. My example of a Russian pronunciation was merely an example of a Slavic pronunciation, just to contrast it from the one that used to be in the article. But I'll agree with you. --88.193.241.224 18:37, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, Gamespot reported that Niko was from Russia. And the name Niko could be an abbreviation for Nikolas.--Green Hill 22:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Please provide a source for this. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 22:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Here you go buddy: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/grandtheftauto4/news.html?sid=6171459 --Green Hill 07:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * GameSpot refers to Niko as both Russian and Eastern European; it seems like they don't know either. Also, for the record, Russia is not in Eastern Europe; it's not even in Europe Europe. Even if GameSpot did maintain some consistency in the references to Niko's nationality, I must add that GameSpot is not Rockstar, who's word really counts, in this matter. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 19:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Since when has it been debated whether or not Russia is in Eastern Europe? The Ural Mountains mark the end where Asia starts and Europe ends. Either way, it doesn't matter. All we have to do is wait for more coverage. --Green Hill 04:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The United Nations Statistics Division defines Eastern Europe as:

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.141.65.185 (talk • contribs) 12:04, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Belarus
 * Bulgaria
 * Czech Republic
 * Hungary
 * Moldova
 * Poland
 * Romania
 * Russia
 * Slovakia
 * Ukraine

This is not a debate about the exact definition of the location of Russia. This is about adding a pronounciation, which we will not as we do not know what country Niko originates from. It doesn't matter where his name supposedly comes from, these things can be (and usually are) pronounced completely differently and until we have something official to go by I recommend that we completely avoid adding a pronounciation to the article. - .:Alex:. 15:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Niko is not russian
This article was writtin by somebody from Xbox.com, which means he probbaly assumed he was russian. It doesn't mean it is confirmed by Rockstar Games so i'm taking it down until we have offical confirmation from Rockstar Games themself... - Turk brown 17:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Rockstar confirmed that he is not Russian. Get rid of it. - .:Alex:. 20:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ugh, I hate when people add BS to articles like that.... Crap. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 02:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You talk about assumptions and then blurt out that he's not Russian? Anyway, I thought this video was worth mentioning: This is foreshadowing

I repeat he is not russian.... - Turk brown 17:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

That sucks. My bad... :( --Green Hill 00:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Source for Niko's full first name
http://games.kikizo.com/news/200707/115_p02.asp I didn't want to add a ref next to his name at the very beginning of the article for some reason, but please add it if it must. It says in the second paragraph underneath the picture that a character within the game refers to him as "Nikolai". - .:Alex:. 16:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok then. That's all I wanted. The last thing we need is BS added to the article without sources. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 16:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

GTA II movie appearance?
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=50697776298063269&q=gta+ii+movie&total=35&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2 3:48 we see someone who could be Niko. GTA II is set in 2013 so should we put this in the article? Lazyguythewerewolf. Rawr. 21:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Could be" is the crucial point here. As it hasn't been verified officially, it counts as original research, so shouldn't be included in the article.Yeanold Viskersenn 00:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I second this. Don't add it. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 18:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

nationality
This is pure speculation, but if you only have his name to judge from, he's most likely to be Croatian, or possibly Serbian, and highly unlikely something else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.85.0.35 (talk) 21:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I reckon that he is Serbian as he speaks Serbian, and he feels guilty about the Bosnian war. For example, in one scene he says that his squad was going to kill a whole heap of innocent people but they didn't because of their personal moral values. Granted, in all wars, atrocities are committed by all sides. He could also be Croatian as you said before, or even Montenegrin (probably not to be fair). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.144.248 (talk) 11:55, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Nationality stupid debate
Well you can claim what ever you want but why Serbian or Croatia if you are going to pick come one from Balkans it would defiantly be Albanian, but like you mine are also just wild guesses and the person can be any thing from easter europe even an ROMA gypsy who are also considered as eastern Europeans to some point, or even maybe the east Germans...lol who were at one point considered as eastern Europeans. Eastern Europeans is made up of over 20 countries, and by using real life most of the eastern European gangsters mafia...etc come from the following countries (not trying to stereo type) Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Croatian. Serbians are not that well known for organized crime out side of Serbia the only place out side that the Serbian mafia has some recognition was in Germany and it no longer has it. Those are the countries I see most likely the character being based on, so there is no point guessing on your own country.<BR>But most likely the character will not be based on any real counties just like the city is based on New york but its called liberty city, which means the character origin could also come from a fictional country in easter europe not to create any sterio types or insult/offend people from those countries.82.35.33.72 20:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This is all guesswork and speculation and cannot be included in the article unless it's attributed to a reliable source. ●BillPP (talk 00:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

First of all, Bellic is Clearly a slavic name, not some long ass, unpronouncable albanian last name. And what the hell is this about an Albanian mafia? Buddy, Albanians can barely afford to get the hell outta their little turd shaped land. They can Barely start a buisness by themselves, nevermind organized crime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.69.57 (talk) 08:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You're an idiot. The Albanian Mafia has gotten VERY rich from people smuggling. Maybe you should tak a look at a map that has countries other than America on it?Lazyguythewerewolf . Rawr. 10:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Any claim of nationality without a verifiable source, no matter how clever and well-thought out the deduction, counts as original research and will be deleted. Yeanold Viskersenn 16:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Bijelic = Bellic = Croatian. JMFJ3 (talk) 02:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This is becoming increasingly ridiculous. It amazes me how people, for one, aren't reading the template at the top of the page and, two, aren't realizing that all of this unsourced discussion won't even be considered to be added into the article. And the only reason this section still exists is because one of the debators in this discussion won't allow the sensible thing be done to this discussion: deleting it. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 18:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

This discussion should be kept, purely as a reminder of what the official policy is, right on the page. Even if you have worked it out through his name, unless you eMail R* and get confirmation, it isn't official and can't be put in. I repeat: UNLESS YOU HAVE CONFIRMATION FROM ROCKSTAR, HE IS EASTERN EUROPEAN. Why is Wikipedia so full of deletionists? Lazyguythewerewolf. Rawr. 19:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ha, you expect people who won't even look and read the top template that says "this is not a forum" to have the good sense to read this discussion before posting? Just look at the redudant section below; this section wasn't removed when that post was made. People will continue ask the same old redudant questions. Removing these discussions de-clutters the page and prevent the discussions from becoming hostile, like they always do. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 19:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * )Lazyguythewerewolf . Rawr. 19:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Please make a coherent response in this discussion. I want to resolve this. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 19:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at the topLazyguythewerewolf . Rawr. 19:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Didn't I just say that, if people aren't even reading the template at the top that says this isn't a forum, do you seriously think THAT will help?? ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 19:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It's simply bad form to delete things on talk pages unless they're prohibited under the Talk page guidelines:


 * Deleting material not relevant to improving the article (per the above subsection #How to use article talk pages).


 * The closest you could probably get would be the one I bolded, but even then it is in fact relevant, even if it has already been covered once. It is another discussion on the same topic trying to forge some sort of consensus. Not to mention the fact that on the guidelines it also requires permission from the other party.


 * --Lord Akria (talk) 19:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Using that logic, anybody could come and start talking the character with discussion that will in no way help or be added to the article, e.g., I could get up and start asking about whether or not he'll be right-handed or not. Even then, the above discussion isn't relevant to improving the article, mainly because all of it is guesswork and unverifiable. Like I said, these discussion almost always end in hostile arguments and I've seen this happen on other similar talkpages. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 20:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Woah.

Stop. Now.

First of all, if you wish the discussion to simply be kept for historical purposes then archive it. This discussion is irrelevant for the fact that it is completely speculation and original research and could possibly come under WP:FORUM or WP:NOT. It is true that this discussion cannot be deleted, by all means archive it if you wish to retain it for historical interest, but otherwise let the discussion die. Rockstar have simply said that he is Eastern European. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, as it is original research and will never be included in the article. So until, and if, we find out his nationality, it will remain Eastern European. .:Alex:. 20:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I guarantee you all that won't stop anyone from continuing to discuss this topic and add new ones about the same exact thing. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 20:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Is that guarantee a contract?Lazyguythewerewolf . Rawr. 20:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The Surname "Bellic" is without a doubt Croatian/Yugoslavian. Nikola Bellic is a crazy Yugo.JMFJ3 (talk) 09:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Point proven. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 22:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

so now that the game has been out we can confirm he definitely speaks Serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.235.239 (talk) 12:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ...Which has nothing to do with his nationality. I can speak Spanish a little; it doesn't make me Spanish in the least. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 23:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Serbian Sniper
Serb-sniper in the movie Behind Enemy Lines

?? maybe Niko Bellic is Serb after all —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nexm0d (talk • contribs) 01:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe you should refer to above debates about his nationality, but I'll paraphrase them for you instead: he is simply Eastern European. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 16:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It is known that he is of Serb ethnicity. Please look at the hundreds of references on his Serbian origins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nexm0d (talk • contribs) 18:21, 10 May 2008


 * Klptyzm wrote that message back in November last year before the references had come out. This is an old discussion. Bill (talk 18:58, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Nikolai?
How do we know that's his real name?JMFJ3 (talk) 02:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Changed it. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 03:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Crap, I forgot. Here's the source. ♣ <b style="color:blue;">Klptyzm</b>  Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 03:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Alcide Nikopol / Enki Bilal inspiration?
Is it just me, or does Niko Bellic remind you of cartoon character Alcide Nikopol, by jugoslavian artist Enki Bilal? Two connections exist: The name, and the country, and I just think the characters are drawn similarily. Anyone heard of ny inspiration there? --Regebro (talk) 08:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No sources = no mention. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 16:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion
I nominate the page for speedy deletion. It has quite a bit of grammer errors and has informationt hat is unconfirmed information and some of the information isn't necessary. It is like whoever typed the article is trying to speak right from their voice and wikipedia is not a place for that. It is more like an encyclepedia not an opinionated essay. For example, Roman calls Niko this right to his face! That's not even necessary, whoever made the article should fix it up because although it may seem good, compared to a majority of the articles on wikipedia, it's garbage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.96.86.112 (talk) 09:18, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That's not grounds for deletion, let alone speedy deletion. Those are grounds for correction that can be noted by article tags. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 20:47, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

According this voice actor's interview he is from Serbia
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Michael%20Hollick&sa=N&tab=wv&um=1# --AaThinker (talk) 18:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed to death, added to WP:LAME, and eventually settled we would continue to say "Eastern European". –<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b> <sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk 18:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * you dispute the mighty voice actor!? lol, ok I didn't know it was discussed to death. --AaThinker (talk) 20:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * yea, the horses family was pretty upset with us; they had to have a closed-casket. –<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b> <sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk 20:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Assessment as of 2009-05-11
Rating this article Start-class. It direly needs reception and development information, basically some real world content to exist as a stand-alone article per notability guidelines. As it stands it's not achieving that.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 10:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

"It is revealed in TLAD that he is an Ethnic serb"
From TFA: "it is revealed in The Lost and Damned that he is an ethnic Serb, but this does not necessarily mean that he is from Serbia as all former Yugoslavian nations have significant ethnic populations". I must have missed that, where was that revealed in TLAD? –<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b> <sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk 17:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Klebitz refers to Bellic as a Russian, and he is corrected by Billy who says "he's a Serb, Johnny". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.53.51 (talk) 19:08, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

It does not reveal him to be a Serb. It only shows a fictional character calling him a Serb. What if that scene was being used to prove the ignorance of both characters, by calling everyone from that region a Serb, regardless of whether they're Slav, Croat, Macedonian or Albanian. - X201 (talk) 08:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Niko is Serb
And thank god that finally on this page it is stated so. There are like THOUSANDS of interviews in which developers, voice actors and the rest of people who participated in developing game say he is Serbian... and ANYONE who played game will confirm that (in introductory dialog Roman says "my Serbian is not so good"). But no... that wasn't enough for ignorant people like Xeno... and calling him Eastern European is like calling French -> North European... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.200.65.19 (talk) 22:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

So what's your point? Serbia is an Eastern European country. --Pletet (talk) 02:36, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Technically, Eastern Europe is north/east of Romania -> Ukraine, Belarus, Moldavia... etc. Serbia is in South-Eastern Europe, or rather - Balkans. It's just that people don't know geography - sure, you can call people from Venezuela -> Mexicans... because they tend to look-a-like but... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.200.65.19 (talk) 01:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Niko sounds more like a Croation name actually. Just look at the soccer teams for Croatia and Serbia. There's a Croatian player called Niko Kranjcar for one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.24.106.105 (talk) 11:50, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

i'd say Niko is a Serb. Would make more sense for the storyline.--English Bobby (talk) 14:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Niko is a very common Slavic name anyhow, usually a shortened form of Nikolaj. Here's the video if anyone is curious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO8evIg2ojQ, at 3:17 "...better than my Serbian" Gokulol2 (talk) 01:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * My English is better than my Greek. I am not Greek. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 14:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I frequently speak Russian to my non-Russian family. Strelok 11:33, 23 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gokulol2 (talk • contribs)


 * I'm just replaying SP now, and I noticed that in the introduction to the first mission for Vlad, Vlad explicitly refers to Roman as a Serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.220.182 (talk) 21:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Niko's referred to as both serbian and polish in the game, so there's no way of telling just off the cuff of character's muttered insults I guess. JoshuaJohnLee talk softly, please 01:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Two different ages listed
Minor, but makes the articles look bad. The Main Character page has him listed as 32, this page has him listed as 30. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.88.136.10 (talk) 04:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Surname
I highly doubt his surname would be written as Беллиц (with double l) in Serbian language; one 'l' seems logical. SwampyQ2 (talk) 15:56, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Plus the last letter ('ц') is pronounced ts and is not a common ending of an Eastern-european surname, and definitely not how Niko's last name is pronounced either. His name is most likely written Нико Белић (Niko Belić). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.159.157 (talk) 23:51, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Without a reliable source for a translation, there is no need to put translations and they should be removed. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 14:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Nationality
I know there's a previous discussion on this but given the new developing edit war I thought I'd specify this: Niko's nationality is NOT specified in the game and the source that someone keeps adding to say he's serbian does not say anything about being Serbian, that's why I keep reverting it to that. JoshuaJohnLee talk softly, please 01:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Vladmir Mashkov
Is there a reliable source that says Niko was inspired by Mashkov? There wasn't one on the list of GTAIV characters page, so I removed it from there assuming here would be the best place to discuss it. A quick google search only shows that it's been frequently discussed by fans on forums... but in doing so I also found one where someone suggested he was inspired by Zinedine Zidane (to be fair I can see the point). If there isn't a more reliable source I suggest it's reworded to say something like the fandom has drawn similarities between the two characters, not that Niko was inspired by Mashkov, otherwise surely it falls under WP:OR? BulbaThor (talk) 21:30, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Why?
Why does Nikko Bellic have his own article but not other protagonists in the Grand Theft Auto series? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zacharymt97 (talk • contribs) 21:35, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Can't believe the nationality discussions, :-)
The guy states at the beginning of the game that Roman forgot his language, where Roman answers "English is better than my Serbian". As far as I know, only Serbs speak Serbian. Reference here.

I don't know what a Croat is or where does guys come from, but he is for sure not an Albanian, hence he is killing those guys in the game, and his cousin states mild slurs against them at the early stages of the game. Reference here

So yes, the nationality was explicitly stated in the game, I do not see the need for this discussion. Niko Bellic is a Serb that came to America, as stated in the game, numerous times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.166.37.186 (talk) 16:48, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Nationality
Yes, I have seen the quadrillion discussions of Niko's nationality on the archived Talk Page. But Niko is Serbian. In the opening cutscene, Roman says "Ahh, your English is good. You'll be fine. Better than my Serbian". Since Michael Hollick is American, thus there are mistakes in his dialogue. I'll try to find all the references to his being Serbian later, but for now these are the ones I've found.

3:26 here.

He's certainly not Russian as shown at 7:19 here.

He's not Polish as pointed out at 7:50 here.

--173.179.92.34 (talk) 02:04, 12 November 2013 (UTC)


 * From the FAQ. "In a number of places the game features characters getting Niko's nationality wrong, the reference to Serbian could be an "in" joke between the brothers about people incorrectly calling them Serbs as well. But because Niko is a fictional character and the author of the character, Dan Houser/Rockstar, has never divulged Niko's nationality, the claim for "our language" being proof falls foul of Wikipedia's guidelines on sources. A single line about speaking a certain language, doesn't imply nationality of that country." - X201 (talk) 09:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Not only does Roman say "Your English is better than my Serbian" but Niko him self uses Serbian very often, when he swears, and sometimes just comments thing with it. Also email from his mother starts with a sentence in pure Serbian, and her name is Milica which is one of the oldest and most popular female Serbian names. And on top of all that his character model is based on Serbian sniper Sasha from a movie Behind Enemy Lines (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159273/, http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/FattyImages/Sasha_1.jpg). But ok, let's pretend his origins are somehow "unknown". 195.252.66.101 (talk) 19:49, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The Authors of GTA 4 specifically state in the game dialogue that his mother language is Serbian.


 * "Niko: What? You forgot our language?
 * Roman: (says something in Serbo-Croatian) Maybe a little. I've been here for ten years! You can speak english.
 * Niko: a little...not so good
 * Roman: Ah you'll be fine. Better than my Serbian!"


 * Also in the game's dialogue Niko denies being Russian or from Russia several times.


 * "PBX: So is you Russian or something? Is you like one of them Oligarchs or some shit?
 * Niko: I'm not from Russia, no"


 * "Shop: You fuckin' Ruskies are milking me dry. I ain't a cow.
 * Niko: I ain't Russian"


 * And finally, in the game, Niko tacitly confirms he is from the Balkans.


 * "Eddie: Where are you from pal of mine? What's your accent? Are you from East Europe? Romania? Bulgaria?....Balkans?
 * Niko: Hey, you're a smart guy"


 * Additionally in the game, Niko speaks Serbo-Croatian with a Serbia-based Ekavian dialect.


 * "Niko: Because you can't pay your debts and they make you mop the floor? *Neverovatno*"
 * "Niko: *Uvek* isti, nikad drugacije"
 * (Highlighted words are those specifically Ekavian in character, localized to Serbia only.


 * Game script:
 * http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/933036-grand-theft-auto-iv/faqs/58223


 * The article should make note of this. Dan Houser and Rockstar never denied he is Serbian. Critikal1 (talk) 21:30, 9 May 2014 (UTC)


 * You're making assumptions, the only people who know the life and back story of their character are Dan Houser/Rockstar. Wikipedia only uses the verifiable information that they have released. Any attempt to fill in the gaps in the character's back story by pointing to one thing and saying that it proves another is called synthesis and is not allowed on Wikipedia. The points you raised have been addresed many times, but I'll answer them again to save you from having to search the talk archive.


 * "The Authors of GTA 4 specifically state in the game dialogue that his mother language is Serbian."
 * Just speaking a certain language doesn't imply nationality of that country. Even more-so it doesn't imply your child's nationality. We don't know this part of Niko's life because the people who control his story haven't revealed it.
 * "Niko: What? You forgot our language?", Niko denies being Russian, "Hey, you're a smart guy"
 * In a number of places the game features characters getting Niko's nationality wrong, the reference to Serbian could be an "in" joke between the brothers about people incorrectly calling them Serbs as well. GTA is a British game and some of the subtlties of the dialogue may not be obvious to people not used to British humour e.g. In the scene with Eddie, Niko is humouring Eddie by agreeing with him, he's not actually agreeing with him, he's just agreeing with him to stop Eddie making an even bigger idiot of himself. Niko then pays him a backhanded compliment "Hey, you're a smart guy" insulting Eddie by damning him with faint praise.
 * Niko speaks Serbo-Croatian with a Serbia-based Ekavian dialect.
 * Speaking a specific language does not mean you are a national of that country. We don't know Niko's back story, he may have been raised as a child speaking that because his family found themselves at that location for some unspecified reasion; but his nationality may be totally different.
 * The article should make note of this. Dan Houser and Rockstar never denied he is Serbian.
 * They have never denied a number of different nationalities. Not denying a thing doesn't add any weight to it as a fact.


 * I hope you can see the thread running through all of the above. Niko is a fictional character, we can only state as fact the things that the authors have said is fact. We don't know Niko's life story, if Niko were a real person pointing to certain facts would lead to a decent argument based on circumstantial evidence, but with a fictional character we can never say " this + this + this = that" because every aspect of the character's life and back story is in the gift of the author. - X201 (talk) 09:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

2020

 * Many important factors have yet still not been invoked in this very protracted discourse. Rhain  ☔ has reverted my recent edit pertaining to Niko's origins which I am more than happy to discuss here, maintaining civility in doing so as opposed to engaging in a very attritional futile edit war. I accept I cannot list his name as being spelt w/o a double consonant, unless I can find a smoking gun source showing that he is in fact referred to w/ that spelling. I have been told though that my other recent edit is an assumption, in breach of WP:OR. That it is however not the case! The fact that there are indications is AN OBJECTIVE FACT. Now, what people infer from those indications IS AN ASSUMPTION, I agree. However, notice I am not making those inferences, I am merely stating OBJECTIVE INDICATIONS from which someone may or may not make inferences. X201 (talk) has mentioned we can only draw facts from what the authors have said. I am sure X201 (talk) will agree that the authors do indeed speak to us about their creations through the script, which I argue is rich in indications if not facts, pertaining to wide and ranging elements of the story and characters. Chris Tomic (talk) 09:51, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If it’s not stated as fact by a reliable source, and is only determined through authors “speaking to us about their creations through the script,” then it is original research. Your addition to the article (“There is however plentiful indication, albeit inconclusive, that he is a Yugoslav.”) is straight up OR. You need to provide reliable sources for an addition like that. – Rhain  ☔ 09:58, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * K, that is fair, I accept that. But if I find sources for those indications, will you accept my supposition that these are sourced indications, if not conclusive facts? Chris Tomic (talk) 10:12, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Depends on the source. But, considering the sources I’ve found in my many hours researching this game, it’s not likely. Unless it’s stated by the creators, it’s not “conclusive facts”. – Rhain  ☔ 10:31, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * There's also WP:SYNTH to consider. Which will bring it back to the "unless it's explicitly stated" rule. - X201 (talk) 10:54, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The important distinction I am making however is that there are indications and there are facts. An indication is itself not a fact, I accept that. However, the presence of an indication is a fact, even if those indications themselves are not facts. The listed suppositions before the game's release, that I edited recently incidentally, were, are and remain indications, not facts, but their presence however as I say, is an objective fact. One cannot deny that there are indications pertaining to his origin and to state them as such, consequently making clear that they are not actual facts, is I think useful to a reader. Drawing people's attention to the presence of these indicators is not to render them a fact or to categorically prove their veracity. It is merely that, just to bring them to the reader's attention, from which they can make their own inferences. Chris Tomic (talk) 12:43, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I will be completely honest. You people keep saying "synthesis" and "assumption" and I don't think you know what they mean. I think we're putting too high a weight on the sources here, because the game's context clues make it incredibly evident that he is Serbian. If we need a games journalist to ask Rockstar whether he's actually Russian or Polish, we have reached a level of ridiculousness that cannot be described. In fact, there are articles that describe him as Serbian, yet only in passing. Nobody has asked the game's creative team about his nationality. I can only assume this is because it should go without saying that Niko is Serbian.

The closest thing we have to confirmation is Rockstar stating that Niko is Serbian in a forum post. The only problem is we can't cite that, and the only people reporting on it are hardly IGN. Here's the article btw.

If this is veritable confirmation, great. I just cannot believe this is something that is being debated. puggo (talk) 19:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)