Talk:Nikola Žigić/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Gabriel Yuji (talk · contribs) 15:04, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll review this one soon. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 15:04, 21 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * "He began playing football as a youngster with AIK Bačka Topola, and scored 68 goals from 76 first-team matches in the third tier of Serbian football." – 1) it would be interesting to date this events as you did with military service and Red Star Belgrade transfer; 2) it would be nice to clarify that a) the goals he scored were during senior matches, not during youth tournaments and b) that it was a three-year period; 3) "first-team matches" seems to imply he played from the start in all matches and did not came as a substitute in any of them but the source do not clarify it (and usually matches as substitutes are counted equally by databases). ✅
 * Not sure I agree, apart from the three-year time period. "first-team matches in the third tier of Serbian football" surely does clarify they were first-team matches, not youth competitions? and it doesn't imply starting each match: I'm sure some of them must have been as a substitute. I can change matches to appearances, if that would help. What I will change is "third tier of Serbian football", which should read Yugoslav, as it does in the body of the article...
 * Hm, now I see what "first-team matches" was standing for (I thought it to be the opposite of second-team, not youth team). So, it's fine. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * "Brief spells back in the third tier with Kolubara and Spartak Subotica preceded the start of his professional career with First League side Red Star Belgrade in 2003." — I thought his professional career started at AIK. Does the infobox is wrong? Or are you using "professional" and "senior" with different meanings? (and that would mean that AIK, Mornar, Kolubara and Spartak Subotica are not professional teams?) ✅
 * "Senior" means open-age (adult) teams, "professional" means being paid to work full-time as a footballer. The B92 source quotes Žigić saying he signed his first pro contract with Red Star in 2002 when he was 21, and before that he'd played in the lower leagues but that was amateur, they trained three times a week and played a game at the weekend: Prvi svoj profesionalni ugovor potpisao sam sa Crvenom zvezdom u 21. godini, 2002. Pre toga sam igrao u nižim ligama, ali je to bilo amaterski. Treniralo se utorkom, četvrtkom i petkom, a utakmice su subotom ili nedeljom.
 * Hm, I found it contraditory at first glance, but now I see. Interesting. So could it be clarified that the other teams are amateur ones? (well, probably saying Red Star is the first professional implies that others are amateur teams, but what's your opinion?) Gabriel Yuji (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't bother, to be honest. In the quote above, Mr Žigić uses the word amaterski, but I don't know what that meant in context of former Yugoslavia in the late 1990s/2000. Whether strictly amateur, i.e. entirely unpaid, or more likely what in England is called semi-professional, i.e. the player gets paid enough during the playing season to encourage him to turn up every week, but football is something he does alongside his paid job or his studies. Struway2 (talk) 12:55, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * "In three years with the club, he won a second double in 2005–06" — would you mind to link to double (association football)? It took me a time to understand this sentence. You can alternatively reword it as "he won both the First League and the national cup for the second time". But I guess a link is just fine. ✅
 * reworded with link (which should have already been there, thank you for noticing its absence)
 * "In August 2006, Žigić moved to Spain to sign for La Liga club Racing Santander, where his goals and his partnership with Pedro Munitis helped them to a mid-table finish." — it's not a problem at all but I do find repetitive the use of "to" here; I'd suggest: "In August 2006, Žigić signed for Spanish club Racing Santander, where his goals and his partnership with Pedro Munitis helped them to a mid-table finish in La Liga." ✅
 * reworded
 * "He then moved to Valencia, but was unable to establish himself as a regular in the starting eleven; he spent the second half of the 2008–09 La Liga season back with Racing on loan, for whom he scored 13 goals in just 19 matches." — I guess a period would be better instead of a semicolon as we have two separate sentences. I think a preposition linking the two would work too. ✅
 * separated
 * "Žigić signed his first professional contract, with one of the biggest clubs in the country, Red Star Belgrade" — so, it seems the lead is correct about the "professional"(?) ✅
 * see above
 * "After trials in France with Saint-Étienne and Créteil, and a brief spell with Kolubara, 3 goals from 8 matches in the Serbian third tier, Žigić signed his first professional contract, with one of the biggest clubs in the country, Red Star Belgrade." — it seems to me that the "3 goals from 8 matches in the Serbian third tier" part would fit better inside parenthesis or dashes. Alternatively, you can split this passage into two sentences. ✅
 * reworded


 * Personal life
 * "His younger brother Branko also became a footballer, most recently for Serbian First League club Proleter Novi Sad" — when? See WP:RELTIME. ✅
 * fixed


 * Early carreer
 * "Žigić's parents did not want him to take football seriously until he completed his education" — probably secondary education, right(?), but strict parents may require college or technical. It would be good to clarify. ✅
 * Our article on education in Serbia, which is pretty much a translation of the Serbian equivalent, says that in Žigić's schooldays, children began primary school at 6 or 7 and completed 8 years, at which point they could either leave, or continue with three or four years of either academic or vocational secondary school, and then college/university after that. THIS lists a number of footballers and what they were qualified for if football didn't work out. It says Žigić completed the "mašinska škola" (mechanical engineering school) at Backa Topola; such schools trained their students for work in basic trades like motor mechanic as well as for higher-level technical roles. Although it's a fun piece, there's no reason to disbelieve the factual bits. It's also backed up by THIS – which isn't WP:RS so I can't use it – which says he graduated from "srednja mašinska škola", secondary mechanical school, (where he was taught by his uncle who encouraged him to play football) and then did his military service. I've added the mech eng secondary school to the personal life section.
 * Nice (and an interesting information about Serbia). Gabriel Yuji (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * "for whom he scored 15 goals from 23 Second League appearances." — missing a source?
 * added: it was the result of breaking a sourced sentence in he middle to add the French trials


 * Red Star
 * "By the mid-season break, he had 12 league goals as well as the 6 in the UEFA Cup" — is the "the" before "6" necessary? ✅
 * Probably, yes. "as well as the 6 in the UEFA Cup" indicates to the reader that the 6 UEFA Cup goals are something they've already been told about; if none, or not all, or his UEFA Cup goals had previously been mentioned, I'd be more likely to simply write "...he had 12 league goals and 8 in the UEFA Cup". Or maybe "...and 8 altogether in the UEFA Cup", which carries an implication of the reader knowing about some but not all.
 * Fine. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * "Continuing the partnership with Marko Pantelić begun in the second half of 2003–04, Žigić continued to score freely in the new season." — not properly a problem but I would avoid repeating the same verb that close in the text. ✅
 * "Resuming the partnership..."
 * "His first goal, a header, appeared to have been scored from an offside position, but the second was spectacular" — is this someone's opinion? If it is, atrribute to them; if it is not, it is WP:NPOV to attribute this statement to Wikipedia. Also, a peacock word. ✅
 * replaced "spectacular", reworded to include "brilliant individual performance" attributed inline to Reuters' correspondent; probably safer to use English-language original for anything involving high praise (or the opposite). Struway2 (talk)
 * "but they failed to do so." — unsourced. ✅
 * fixed
 * "during which Žigić gave Red Star the lead with a header and Dušan Basta made sure" — a bit informal, don't you think so? ✅
 * reworded


 * Racing Santander
 * "he contributed eleven goals – ... – four assists and five penalties won in league competition" — does the dashes eliminate the necessity of a comma? ✅
 * Yes, I'd have thought so. Rule 2 here says they do, admittedly that's a US source, but it's the same in British English.
 * Hm, ok. Nice to know. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Valencia
 * "Speculation regarding moves to the Premier League, came to nothing." — why the comma? I guess the subject ("speculation") should not be separated from the main verb ("came"). ✅
 * Typo, I imagine: might have originally included detail of which bits of the Premier League he'd been linked with, and the comma was left behind when the detail was removed
 * "Resuming his partnership with Munitis in the first game of his second spell, Žigić scored the only goal of the visit to Real Valladolid, repeated the feat at Getafe two matchdays later" — matches? ✅
 * Changed to "two weeks later": I think "matchdays" was meant to imply La Liga matches (there were intervening Copa matches), but it doesn't


 * Birmingham City
 * "Media speculation suggested the fee to be in the region of £6 million." — when you say "media" I assume a variety of sources but currently there is only one. Anyway, you can use the already mentioned The Guardian source, current ref #12, as it also gives this number. ✅
 * The BBC ref for his signing also gives that figure, but it wasn't repeated after that sentence; added Guardian ref as well
 * "He made his debut on the opening day of the season away at Sunderland" — you already linked to Sunderland in the above paragraph so it is not necessary. See WP:OVERLINK. ✅
 * fixed
 * "David Pleat wrote that 'Birmingham earned their victory through terrific teamwork and astute deployment of Žigić's strengths'." — to those not familiar with Pleat (and to avoid people needing to click on the link), you could add a brief description like "Sports commentator David Pleat..." ✅
 * "Football manager turned commentator"


 * International career
 * "His next appearance and first start came some 14 months later;" — is "some" necessary here? ✅
 * Not necessary, no, but it reads better with it there. Struway2 (talk)


 * Style of play
 * "Exemplified in a powerful performance on his debut for Racing" — POV? ✅
 * reworded


 * Notes, references and external links
 * "The nickname is a play on the name of Spanish comedy act the Dúo Sacapuntas." — probably common sense in Spain, but is there some source for it? ✅
 * Sourced
 * Spotchecked affirmation #1: "During the Yugoslav Wars in 1999, Žigić's hometown was beneath the flight-path of NATO bombers heading for Belgrade; for much of that part of the conflict, the family home was without electricity or running water." — it is attributed to El Correo and the first paragraph of "Tiempos de guerra" covers all it.
 * Spotchecked affirmation #2: "A growth spurt from the age of 16 eventually brought his height to 2.02 m (6 ft 7 1⁄2 in), provoking suggestions that he might be better suited to basketball". — Politika backs up his 2.02 m but The Guardian says 6 ft 8 in. In the infobox, the 6 ft 1/2 in is supported by Rrezentacija.rs but it does not present his height in feet ("od čak 202 centimetra"). It is not a big deal but I guess it's better to follow the source. (Another source used in the article also gives 6 ft 8 in) The spurt at 16 is covered by the British newspaper but both The Guardian and Politika says the basket comparison was did when he moved to Red Star. Again, not a big deal, but where it is placed right now leads me to think it was said before the start of his carreer. ✅
 * Moved the growth spurt/basketball thing to his Red Star debut, which is at least implied in the Politika source.
 * As to the actual height, WP:UNIT requires the primary unit of measurement to be metric, so it's the height in metric that needs to be sourced, and the height in feet and inches is a conversion. There's complete agreement on 2.02m in reliable sources from his native country, from his clubs in Spain, and also from international sources such as FIFA (see e.g. the official squad lists for the 2010 World Cup). The result of conversion to feet and inches depends on the level of precision used: either nearest inch or nearest half-inch are commonly used, depending on a given publication's house style. MOS:CONVERSIONS suggests using "a level of precision similar to that of the source quantity value", which is probably why height, which is recommended for use with human height, defaults to nearest half-inch: gives 2.02m, but a precision parameter can be added to make it convert to the nearest inch:  gives 2.02m.
 * Spotchecked affirmation #3: "He scored twice in the 3–0 win in the Eternal Derby against Partizan, and celebrated by miming a basketball shot." — the source does cover the part of basket-like celebration but the game itself, its score and how many goals Žigić scored are not mentioned. ✅
 * Oops... they are now
 * Spotchecked affirmation #4: "By mid-December, Koeman had given Žigić two weeks to convince him he was worth keeping, Valencia had not scored for seven matches" — the given source indeed covers it on "Ronald Koeman le ha dado un plazo de dos semanas para que le convenza". I'm only partially in doubt whether or not to consider that December 20 is mid-December. Again, not a big deal, but I guess just "By December" is fine. For the second part, I cannot say by this that Valencia had not scored for seven matches. However, I think if it can be due my lack of experience with BDFutbol. ✅
 * Maybe change to "With the January transfer window approaching" (accurate but non-specific) and add the date of the Copa game? I've clarified the BDFutbol reference to include the need to click on the "Matches" tab, and discovered it was six matches without scoring, not seven...
 * Spotchecked affirmation #5: "He is dangerous from set pieces, scoring many headed goals, particularly in the earlier part of his career, and knocking the ball down for others: when he joined Red Star, the coach set out the team in a 4–3–3 formation, with Žigić at centre-forward and two wingers to feed those strengths." None of the two sources seems to have anything on "particularly in the earlier part of his career", although the rest is all there. Uefa source explains the second part (after the colon) on "Key forward" subtitle. ✅
 * Removed "particularly in the earlier part of his career" as unsourced (albeit true). Will put it back if I can find something non-trivial to justify it. Struway2 (talk)
 * For current ref #14 (Maxifoot and Le Parisien) you can use  to separate the sources. It's better than   I think. Currently, if I did not check the Wikisource I would not notice there is a space between the sources. You can apply it on other sources if you think it produces a good result. ✅
 * I wasn't aware of that: thank you.
 * His Premier League profile redirects to the main page. ✅
 * That's an odd one. The site normally reduces the content of a player's profile when he stops playing in the PL, but it seems to have lost Zigic's entirely. It didn't add much anyway, so removed.
 * The rest is fine according to Checklinks.

So, that's it. There are no major problems, only small (technical or wording) drawbacks, so I'll put on hold for seven days. Nice job, ! Gabriel Yuji (talk) 22:06, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your review, it's much appreciated. I've started replying/fixing issues, and will ping you when I think I've finished. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:09, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * thanks again for taking so much trouble with this review. I think I've finished now. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:55, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok. Thank you for your patience and contributions to improve Wikipedia's quality! Now, it's a GA! Gabriel Yuji (talk) 14:53, 25 November 2015 (UTC)