Talk:Nile/Archive 2

Flax
Removed this phrase: "Thie Nile als provided flax for trade. The flax consisted largely of wheat, a crucial crop in the Middle East..." and replaced it with "The Nile also provided flax for trade. Wheat was also traded, a crucial crop in the Middle East..." Someone might find a better way to phrase that, but since flax is not a grain, it was important to change this. The flax plant (genus Linum) is a source of oil and fiber (see |Flax). "Flax" is not a general term for grain, as it was used in the deleted sentence.

"Nelios"?
Contributed by the august 209.233.19.9, the claim is made that "ddddffgdnd8olgreen day ighsy com ingsdfrwbv ytuas I can tell:
 * The word Nile comes to us by way of Latin from Greek "Neilos" (&Nu;&epsilon;&iota;&lambda;&omicron;&sigmaf;), not "Nelios"
 * (This may be an ordinary typo, as there doesn't seem to be a Greek word "nelios", either with epsilon or eta.)
 * This word only appears to mean "Nile", not "river valley". (Perhaps it meant "river valley" in the language the Greeks borrowed it from?)

Can anyone shed some light on this? If not, "Nelios" should be respelled and the information on meaning removed. &#8212;Muke Tever 23:21, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

At some point the nile river turns into urin that can be harmful to your abrocantrantions in your stomache. I'd like to see added the fact that the source of the Nile was a mystery to which explorers as ancient as Heroditus and as modern as David Livingstone devoted a good portion of their lives to no avail. I don't know when the real source was discovered, but suffice it to say that the debate still caused quite a row even up to the 1880s, especially in places like the Royal Geographical Society. Debates on the subject attracted crowds of Londoners and incited other explorations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.216.66.127 (talk • contribs) 9 November 2004


 * I have raised related issue again below - see  --Matilda talk 23:23, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Explorations
Its very odd to me that the article makes no mention of the 19th century (and earlier) explorations of the nile. Fawcett5 15:13, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I know, it's been on my to-do list forever... Stan 16:53, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * There's a lot of stuff like this that needs to be added: how the ancients confused the Niger River with the Nile, adding the Mountains of the Moon, the ancient Greek's fascination not only with the fact this river flowed from the south to the north (the only such river they knew of), but that it flooded in summer, not winter, as did other rivers. I'd happily add these items, but I'm not quite sure how people would react to the resorting of this article these additions would require. -- llywrch 22:15, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Go for it - sounds like a "The Nile in history" section to me. Stan 06:21, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)th bills are cool

The Ripon Falls should be so spelt, not Rippon - the Earl of Ripon...Korsowan 00:55, 26 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Korsowan (talk • contribs)
 * Changed. Thanks for pointing this out, and don't forget WP:BOLD! --Old Moonraker 06:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Terminology
There is a section named Branches. Would Tribiutaries not be better here? Phoenix2 02:43, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wildlife?
How come there is no mention about the animal life and ecosystem of the river? The Nile Salt water crocodile is supposed to be one of the most dangerous crocus in the world!--Jayanthv86 17:41, 22 January 2006 (OTC)the think is fhjdfjuafga fuhyafdjhjda fjord's ahjhfhsjSubscript text the the the the== Wildlife? ==

How come there is no mention about the animal life and ecosystem of the river? The Nile Salt water crocodile is supposed to be one of the most dangerous crocus in the world!--Jayanthv86 17:41, 22 January 2006 (OTC)the think is fhjdfjuafga fuhyafdjhjda fjord's ahjhfhsjSubscript text the the the the

Possible vandalism?
'The word "Nile" ('nIl) comes from the word Neilos (Νειλος), a Greek name for the old wakawakachangchang, the old misty lady, the old wakatoomba, in traditional maori."

How can it be possible that the Ancient word for a Great River in Classical society is derrived from on complete unrelated language spoken by people who lived beyond the then known world. In my opinion it is impossible that a Maori culture influenced Ancient Greek This knowdegde let me to conlude that this is some kind of vandalism, of that this entry is done by somewone who did not have an appropiate source.

Therefore I think that this part should be deleted: .Greek name for the old wakawakachangchang, the old misty lady, the old wakatoomba, in traditional maori

Think again: wakawakachangchang-wakatoomba. They might be some words form an existing languages, but I find it suspicious at least. Someone must test them to check the use of correct Polynesian.

I am not an native speaker of English, I speak it more than acceptable, however there are still many words I spell wrong (most of the time only slighty) and I do have a few problems with some grammar. I am Dutch and also participate in the Dutch wiki. However I do have some specific knowledge that might be valuable for the English wikipeda. You will see that I do not create articles very often, but the ones I did took some hard work, trying to have them in correct english as good as I can. Because I do not often have the time to do so, the number of valuable contributions from my hand are quite low. However, when times alows me I will try to write large articles suitable for wikipedia, although they will need thorough screening to correct it. (examples: the Carnivora entry on phylogeny have well been tought out en I believe improved the overall quality of the article.

I have much more to do, but the dutch wiki (which keeps going, which is great)has my priority, but i know there are a lot of English articles that i can improve (especialy in evolutionairy relationships and astronomy). But I am reluctant to do it, because I know that my 'first draft' articles are scientificly correct (however sometimes controversial), but when finished they will be full with (mostly minor) violatians with standard English.

Perhaps a strange story to tell here, but I couldn't come with a better one to post my goings on wikipedia. DaMatriX 00:29, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

So don't be to critical on my posts


 * You're right, it's just vandalism. There are an amazing number of losers who think it's clever to mess up articles in various ways. Fixed up now. Stan 05:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Possible Vandalism
Some one has been changing the White and Blue Nile to Orange and Green Nile. I'm changing it back but, the same person has done it more than once today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gibith (talk • contribs) 21:30, 26 February 2006

The length of the Nile
The recent expedition to determine the length of the Nile follows on approach to the problem. It is commonly accepted that the nile may have thousands of sources. The new measurement was well recorded along the route. Every river has a catchment area which is determined by the topography of region at a particular point in time. The source of the river may appear to change from time to time, depending on the most recent rainfall patterns in the region. It would be nice to know how far, as the crow flies, the mouth of the Nile is from the most extreme point of its catchment area. Gregorydavid 05:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Source of the Nile
hmm.. my National Geographic "Africa Adventure Atlas" published in 2001 has a bid red square marked "Source of the Nile" in the mountains of Rwanda. I think the Lake Albert thing has been out of favor for a while and the recent British explorers are a combination of overblown PR and minor adjustment. -- Stbalbach 19:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:Source of the Nile by Joshua Issac (talk) at 12:40, 23 December 2008 (UTC).

I removed text ''"It was on this journey that Stanley was said to have greeted the British explorer with the famous words "Dr. Livingstone, I presume?" upon discovering the Scotsman ill and despondent in his camp on the shores of Lake Tanganyika."'' Stanley's expedition to find Livingstone was 1871-1872. His trip in which he circumnavigated Lake Victoria was a different expedition which occurred in 1874. Source: Martin Dugard Into Africa 2003 ISBN 978-0767910743. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dejin (talk • contribs) 05:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism
by anon users is making a potential CD article into an article of ridicule. If one assumes good faith, one might think it's just a bunch of vandals, not racists, but the repeated and continued vandalism makes one pause to think. So now, get 100 edits under your belt before editing this; anyone with fewer may request edits on the talk page, of course. Carlossuarez46 21:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that template is (well, was, I deleted it to avoid more misunderstandings) just bogus. There's no such thing as protecting by edit-count. There were some early discussions on having such a feature, but it was turned down. Sprotection is based on time since account creation (4 days) only. And just inserting a template doesn't protect an article. Many people seem to think so, but an admin has to protect it. Requests for such can be made on Requests for page protection. Personaly I don't see the level of vandalism on this page to be so high that sprotection is required at the moment. Shanes 12:30, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Nile River
Who out there calls it the Nile River? The proper English is "River Nile" - please!


 * The Americans do, who outnumber the English. (I'm an Anglophile, but that's just how it is...) —Ƿōdenhelm (talk) 03:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

New Nile/Second Nile
Does anyone know about the project to build a second Nile? Its supposed to be connected to some river in the western desert. I think its called the New Valley project or something.--Elatanatari 20:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

NVMND--Elatanatari 20:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you mean the Great Manmade River--Tarawneh 20:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I found it:New Valley Project--Elatanatari 16:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Longest river
I've reverted the claim that "most authorities regard it as the longest river on Earth". As well as being a hideous weasel statement, it's not even true - most serious references, including the Guinness book of records, frame this issue in a discussion over what defines "longest". From furthest source to furthest mouth (of the delta) the Amazon would appear to be longer. Hence the debate. See List of rivers by length and for details on this. SteveRwanda 09:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Why White and Blue Nile?
happened to see why white nile and blue nile get their names respectively. I tend to diagree with the statements cause white nile is relatively free of sediments since it pass through various lakes and the flow is steady, but the blue nile which is also black, takes sedimients of the mountain after the rains and then dissolves them in Khartoum and makes them very distinct in coulours. SO have changed it that way. If you want citation i can give them too.

--Challiyan 13:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Challiyan - can you give the citation you're talking about please? I've reverted your changes for now, since the text didn't seem to make sense. Are you saying there's no clay sediment in the White Nile? Where do the names White and Blue come from then? Cheers &mdash; SteveRwanda 13:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

it is simple logic. Sediments that Blue nile carry is because of the rain falls in summer and floods in Lake tana.The white nile seldom floods, its always a stady flow but it is the reason the nile don;t dry in other seasons, and its realatively white in colour. the difference is only apparent at the confluence when the clay, which is black in colour is mixed up with the white nile which carries less sediments. I am not saying there is no sediments in white nile.. do you want references now?

WHITE NILE., The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition 2006

Alan Moorehead: the white nile: Harper publications --Challiyan 15:26, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed text
There's one piece of information that was removed some time back. I don't know whether it was an accident or intentional. Some of it seems POV, so I didn't add it back immediately; in any case, if it's intentional, then there's still some of the text still left in the current version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nile&diff=75932049&oldid=75931866

218.186.9.4 12:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Crypto-Nile
I first read about the Crypto-Nile many years ago, I believe in an Almanac. The section in this article on the Crypto-Nile appears to be an almost direct quote from that source. The same statement can be found in several places on the net, but they are all worded almost exactly the same way, and appear to have originated from one source. But I remain skeptical, since I have never seen a citation to any particular study, scientist, research group, or the like backing this up. If the crypto-river was discovered using radioisotopes, the discoverers should have left a paper trail in the scientific literature, which I have not found. I'm not saying the claim is false, just that it's suspiciously undocumented. Vegasprof 02:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Nobody has come up with a citation for this piece of information, which User:Guinnog tagged with a request on 2006-10-16. I suspect a hoax (it's six times bigger than the river on the surface, believe it or not) or a misunderstanding of the Eonile by an IP user and I am inclined to delete, subject to other editors' views. I would be very happy to be proved wrong about this startling piece of information! Old Moonraker 08:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not know the origin of this story, but it is mentioned in an article in TIME magazine on August 25, 1958: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,868735,00.html That article does not contain a citation, and contains a blatant factual error, namely that the Dead See is 1800 feet below sea level (it's actually 412.5 m, according to http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/8/The%20Red%20Sea%20and%20the%20Mediterranean%20Dead%20Sea%20canals) so I do not think the TIME article can be trusted. Vegasprof 09:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 1800ft could be a proof-reading error for 1300ft (~400m); the Crypto-Nile reference cannot be dismissed on those grounds (although the concept sounds somewhat fishy to me). 82.36.26.229 13:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am making a serious attempt to source the claim. I'll report as soon as I find out something. Vegasprof 21:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Guys --- the source of this claim is almost certainly the Guinness Book of Records. The 1985 paperback edition refers to a subterranean river flowing under the Nile with a volume six times that of the surface Nile.
 * —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.73.23.235 (talk • contribs).
 * Tagged for six months now, but nobody has found a reliable source (pun) for this statement — removed. As before, I would still be very happy to be proved wrong about this startling piece of information! --Old Moonraker 07:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry that I haven't been more diligent in checking it out. Guiness 1985 may have it, but it appeared in a 1958 issue of Time Magazine, so it's older than that.  I still don't believe it, although it would be very interesting if it were true.  If it turns out to be verfied, eventually, we can put it back in. Vegasprof 23:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Kayaks down the nile
I am reading about a group who went from the headsprings of the Kagera river in the Rutana region of Burundi. They traveled the distance in kayaks in 1950. The story was published by the BYU Press, under the title "Kayaks down the Nile," in 1979. The author, John Goddard, and two others traveled the length of the river, suffering greatly and nearly dying a number of times. I think this should be included, but I don't know anything about the trip spoken off and claiming to be the first down the entire length of the river in 2004, 54 years after this man's trip. Can someone tell me what is correct? Thanks...

Irnoham 21:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)Ryan Taylor

Basin Map
This article is missing a map of the basin or watershed. Compare to for the Congo river. Kevlar67 04:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I created one for the Nile as well: Image:Nile_watershed_plain.png and Image:Nile_watershed_topo.png – you can include it where it fits. Imagico 12:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The article refers to Stanley as American. He was Welsh. I would change this, but I am not a regular user and do not know how. Even the wikipedia article on Stanley identifies him as Welsh.

Stanley was Welsh, not American
Text of article is incorrect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.120.205.175 (talk) 18:06, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

6,695 km is 4160 mi not 4180 mi

stanley is syrian not welsh or american

Stanley's African journeys
H M Stanley made two journeys to Central Africa. The first in 1871 was to find Livingstone. It was during the second (1874-77) that he circumnavigated Lake Victoris and discovered its outflow, presuming correctly that it would eventually become the Nile. JOLinton 20:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

For some reason there is nothing about Aswan hydroplant
I am sure it refers more directly to the article then judaism ;).

Nile _Begin
where does the nile begin ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.42.21.154 (talk) 16:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The Nile River
It is in Ancient Egypt and it is the longest river in the world. It is 6695km (4184miles). There is animals there and it grows plants. So there is more to it but that is all I know about the Nile River —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.76.233 (talk) 04:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The Nile is now actually considered the second longest river, next to the amazon.63rd 06:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC) How do I edit the front page? I wanted to include this information, or can someone do it for me?63rd 03:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I love animals! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.82.1.126 (talk) 02:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Wildlife
How about adding a section on flora and fauna of the river? The Zambezi River article has a section on the wildlife of its river. Dogru144 (talk) 07:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

there is a research going on to confirm that the amazon river is longer than the nile river but it is not confirmed yet

ancient egyptians
did the ancient egyptians know the source of the nile--Mikmik2953 (talk) 19:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Merger complete
Information from Evolution river nile sudan (so spelled) has been merged into The integrated Nile section of this article; the former article now redirects to that section. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 12:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

im an ass sucker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.242.78.3 (talk) 17:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Lake Albert link
The Lake Albert link in the White Nile section is to a disambiguation page. Someone should fix it. 128.244.70.11 (talk) 16:33, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Done! Gonzonoir (talk) 17:12, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Lenght
The Nil lenght must be updted: it is 6.852,15 km. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.226.217.121 (talk) 14:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

dubious etymology
I have taged as dubious The word "Nile"(Arabic: 'nīl) comes from Greek Neilos (Νειλος), meaning river valley, All etymologies on the web seem to come back to this wikipedia article. I have hard copies of the Oxford English Dictionary (longer version) which does not give the word's etymology. An oldish version of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica which states from the Greek but the Greek "origin is unknown". Note a reliable source should be cited - Open Etymology forum does not meet WP:RS. Note also - from http://www.theoi.com/Potamos/PotamosNeilos.html Neilos, or Nilus, was a Greek river god - possibly worth mentioning in etymology section and makes river valley possibly dubious sounding derivation. In looking for a translation, Νειλος seems just to translate as Nile, not river valley and thus looking up dictionary doesn't help or substantiate.--Matilda talk 23:18, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, good catch. I've been reading this article for two years probably, and never once questioned that.
 * I'd like to suggest that we wait no more than a couple of weeks for someone to step forward and support this claim that Matilda has challenged. If it has no support in that time, then it should be expunged.  It can always be placed back if someone knows better and comes along later to tell us. Unschool (talk) 00:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is what the Oxford English Dictionary gives for its etymology: "Nile, the name of a river in North and Eastern Central Africa. Compare classical Latin Nilus, ancient Greek Neilos (Hesiod), of unknown origin." So the "river valley" derivation does indeed seem spurious.  Since it's been longer than a couple weeks, I'm going ahead and deleting the offending phrase. Worlingham (talk) 03:35, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Or, that is, I will just as soon as my account is four days old. Worlingham (talk) 03:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Nile crossings
Between Aswan (the grand damp) and Luxor there are further crossings:

- the grand damp

- the ancient damp (1902)

- the (new) barrage (watergate) at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esna)

- the bridge at Edfu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edfu)

Source: own observation 12/2008

--MartinBeyer (talk) 20:27, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Frozen Nile?
The page claims that the nile was frozen twice in recorded history (829 and 1010), but the citatations given themselves just state this as a fact without giving sources. The 1010 date is especially suspicious, as it lies near the maximum of the Medieval Warm Period. The only page that I could find that gives the 829 date and some sort of source attributes the list to White Wolf Publishing with the disclaimer "These pages concern a role-playing game. Events described are not real". Somebody with acces to a university library with a subscription might want to check Extreme Nile floods and famines in Medieval Egypt (AD 930–1500) and their climatic implications. The paper Climatic Fluctuations in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East might be relevant, but it is password protected, too. 91.16.152.150 (talk) 19:46, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Good story. Or would have been, had they worked on it. Removed the "facts", until a shade of evidence comes forth. Hexmaster (talk) 17:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I found a reference for "ice on the nile" in the winter 1010/11, but this is not "frozen" H.H. Lamb: Climate Past Present and Future Vol 2 of a book with the same author and title is given as the source for the 829 freezing on the 829 page, but this is missing here. His source is probable either [http://books.google.de/books?id=4PLu8lIfSFEC Brooks, C.E.P. (1949). Climate through the Ages: A Study of the Climatic Factors and Their Variations (Rev. Ed.). London: Benn] (if you search in that book for "nile ice" you don't get the years, and I can't find it in the full text on archive.org) or or more likely Prince Omar Toussoun (1925): Mémoire sur l'histoire du Nil. Mémoires de l'Institut d'Egypte, Volume 18, pp. 366-404, which seems not to exist online.

The ninth century without a year is mentioned in John E. Oliver: The Encyclopedia of World Climatology, 2005. He cites himself John E. Oliver, Rhodes Whitmore Fairbridge: The Encyclopedia of Climatology, 1987 as source.

The article migth also warrant a link to Nilometer and Rodah, the data reported by Toussoun for the Rodah nilometer are one of the longes continuous hydrological data series in existence (spanning the years 622 to 1922 with only a few missing years). 91.16.164.51 (talk) 23:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Nile geo-history
Eonile is one of many periods. doi:10.1016/j.geomorph.2004.11.008 "The drainage of Africa since the Cretaceous" Andrew S. Goudie. Do you know Nile was ~2x longer?

Pre-Eonile (<6Ma), Eonile (6.0-5.4 Ma), Gulf Phase (5.4-3.3 Ma), Paleonile Phase (3.3-1.8 Ma), Desert Phase (1.8-0.8 Ma), Prenile Phase (0.8-0.4 Ma), Neonile Phase (400,000-12,000 years) and Modern Nile (12,000 years -Present). 76.16.176.166 (talk) 12:35, 23 June 2009 (UTC)rape

Bridges over the Nile
The list of bridges over the nile from the Aswan to the med is incomplete. for example, it is missing Kornaish. I'd like to add them all, but can't because the page is protected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesANGreen (talk • contribs) 05:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

citation
citation for "classical Hellenistic and Roman representations of the river as a male god with his face and head obscured in drapery." under the search for the source of the nile

http://www.rome.info/bernini/fountain-four-rivers/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.2.240.20 (talk) 15:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

This citation refers to a depiction of the River Nile on a fountain sculpted by the sculptor Bernini in 1647-1651. It doesn't give support to the claim of 'classical Hellenistic and Roman representations of the river as a male god with his face and head obscured in drapery.

Bettyh5 (talk) 20:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Infobox
There is something wrong with the infobox at the top of the article, it spreads across the whole page (including the wiki navigation sidebar).--86.141.46.179 (talk) 03:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced comments
Please remove the fabricated garbage below above...

"That far-reaching trade has been carried on along the Nile since ancient times can be seen from the Ishango bone, possibly the earliest known indication of Ancient Egyptian multiplication, which was discovered along the headwaters of the Nile (near Lake Edward, in northeastern Congo) and was carbon-dated to 20,000 BC." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.33.238.188 (talk) 06:53, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

The bible
Isn't it appropriate to mention the role of the Nile (haYe'or) in the bible? TFighterPilot (talk) 10:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Archeological findings
Did I miss these or should some mention be added. A lot has been found in recent years pertaining to the spread of early Christianity (a special display was on show at British Museum a few years ago). Michael P. Barnett (talk) 21:08, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Etymology
The etymology for the word Nile is not explained in that section, only the Coptic and Old Egyptian names. But they don't show any similarity to the English word. The Online Etymology Dictionary states, that Nile is derived from a Semitic root nahal "river". Source at etymonline.com • Madden (talk) 15:13, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * OED does not agree: it suggests that the Hebrew is yě'ōr (בת יאור) from jtrw [sic] already cited in the article, and not nahal/nachal. I have added a  request, for clarification. --Old Moonraker (talk) 09:44, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Countries in infobox

 * The infobox only lists Egypt and Ethiopia as countries the Nile flows through. That obviously needs fixing...

While we're at it, do we actually need the flags? They're a bit cluttered, other articles don't seem to use them if there's more than a couple of countries (examples: Rhine, Danube, Congo River) and I could imagine some edit-warring about what flag goes next to Juba (I should point out that South Sudan is still a long way from actually declaring independence).

&mdash;86.6.193.43 (talk) 13:35, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I definitely support removing the flagicons. As for the expanded list of countries, two--Funandtrvl (talk) 01:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC) questions:


 * 1) Should the infobox list all of the countries that just the "Nile" flows through, or should it also list all of the countries that the Nile's named tributaries (White Nile, Blue Nile, etc.) flow through?
 * 2) Whichever of the above options we choose, what is the correct and complete list of countries, and where is this verified (I don't want to just guess by looking at the map)?
 * Qwyrxian (talk) 00:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I removed the flag icons as it violated several aspects of MOS:FLAG. -Atmoz (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed the countries in the infobox, it looks like the numbering got pretty messed up, so that the countries weren't showing up. --Funandtrvl (talk) 01:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

old and new
Re change just made, might it be worth mentioning which are old and new sides of Cairo relative to river? Michael P. Barnett (talk) 10:50, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Churchill on Soudan from River War The line of communications from Cairo, the permanent base, to the advanced post at Akasha was 825 miles in length. But of this distance only the section lying south of Assuan could be considered as within the theatre of war. The ordinary broad-gauge railway ran from Cairo to Balliana, where a river base was established. From Balliana to Assuan reinforcements and supplies were forwarded by Messrs. Cook's fleet of steamers, by barges towed by small tugs, and by a number of native sailing craft. A stretch of seven miles of railway avoids the First Cataract, and joins Assuan and Shellal. Above Shellal a second flotilla of gunboats, steamers, barges, and Nile boats was collected to ply between Shellal and Halfa. The military railway ran from Halfa to Sarras. South of Sarras supplies were forwarded by camels. To meet the increased demands of transport, 4,500 camels were purchased in Egypt and forwarded in boats to Assuan, whence they marched via Korosko to the front. The British Government had authorised the construction of the military railway to Akasha, and a special railway battalion was collected at Assuan, through which place sleepers and other material at once began to pass to Sarras. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.23.169 (talk) 03:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ishango bone
Why does the subsection "Role in the founding of Egyptian civilization" in the "History" section include a discussion of the Ishango bone? This artifact found on the shores of Lake Edward is irrelevant to the founding of Egyptian civilization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jstovell (talk • contribs) 17:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Order of countries
Is there any rhyme or reason to the order in which the countries in the infobox and in the lede are given? They don't even agree with each other. I would have expected a geographical order, from source to delta. Huon (talk) 21:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

NILO IS THE SECOND RIVER OF THE WORLD
AMAZON RIVER HAVE 6,937 km OF EXTENTION; SOUTH AMERICA HAVE THE 1° RIVER OF THE WORLD AND NOT AFROCENTRIC NILO SMALLER..!!WIKIPEDIA IS A FRAUD..!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.71.80.238 (talk) 00:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So find reliable sources and change list of longest rivers. Might want to learn to turn off your capslock key first, though. — LlywelynII  10:19, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 July 2012
Add "Spanish" to Jesuit Pedro Páez because alredy it write "British explorer John Hanning Speke" or "Portuguese João Bermudes". The Spanish Jesuit Pedro Páez was the first European to have visited the headwaters.

217.127.88.3 (talk) 07:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think that's necessary. We give the nationalities of some of the explorers and authors, but not of others such as James Bruce or Athanasius Kirchner. If anything, we should probably remove a few irrelevant nationalities, not add more, and Páez' membership with the Jesuits seems more relevant than his nationality anyway. Huon (talk) 11:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that the nationality of the first european that saw the source of Nilo are not irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.127.88.3 (talk) 08:36, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 July 2012. Add "spanish" to Pedro Páez
now ... modern writers give the credit to the Jesuit Pedro Páez.

it must say ... modern writers give the credit to the Spanish Jesuit Pedro Páez.

217.127.88.3 (talk) 08:25, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment: Does it really matter? FloBo   A boat that can float!  10:16, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * ❌ Unnecessary.  Rcsprinter  (talkin' to me?)  @ 10:48, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Images
am disappointed that a place where we think Nile has got one of the amazing wonders "Murchison falls" you couldn't put a picture of it... not even any picture from Uganda where we all think is the possible right source or at least once was. Its been biased cos most of the images and writings has mainly been about Egypt.22:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)41.190.203.106 (talk)


 * Actually we do have two pictures from Uganda in the Images and media of the Nile section. But you're right, the images are rather Egypt-heavy. Do you know good images of other parts of the Nile that we could use? One of the images in the Murchison Falls article might do. What I'd be really interested in would be an image or two from Sudan and South Sudan; I don't think we have anything at all from those countries. Huon (talk) 22:41, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've replaced one of our Cairo images with the Murchison Falls. Huon (talk) 00:05, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Egypt is the gift of the Nile
What Herodotus [II 5] actually wrote is that: "the Egypt to which the Greeks go in their ships is an acquired country, the gift of the river." The Greeks were only allowed to go to specific trading towns (such as Naucratis) within the delta region. Herodotus is describing the accretion of land at the mouth of the Nile due to the deposit of alluvium. He is giving a physical geographic description of the delta phenomenon. He is not referring to the Nile valley. And he is not attributing the agricultural wealth of Egypt to the waters of the Nile (although that was as true then as now). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onkel tom (talk • contribs) 10:21, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I found this a particularly interesting and worthwhile comment. Thanks. FurnaldHall (talk) 22:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Contradictions in percentages given of total Nile flow originating from the Blue Nile Component of the river
This article states [italics mine]:


 * "The Blue Nile (Ge'ez ጥቁር ዓባይ Ṭiqūr ʿĀbbāy (Black Abay) to Ethiopians; Arabic: النيل الأزرق‎; transliterated: an-Nīl al-Azraq) springs from Lake Tana in the Ethiopian Highlands. The Blue Nile flows about 1,400 kilometres to Khartoum, where the Blue Nile and White Nile join to form the Nile. Ninety percent of the water and ninety-six percent of the transported sediment carried by the Nile[15] originates in Ethiopia, with fifty-nine percent of the water from the Blue Nile (the rest being from the Tekezé, Atbarah, Sobat, and small tributaries). The erosion and transportation of silt only occurs during the Ethiopian rainy season in the summer, however, when rainfall is especially high on the Ethiopian Plateau; the rest of the year, the great rivers draining Ethiopia into the Nile (Sobat, Blue Nile, Tekezé, and Atbarah) have a weaker flow.
 * The Blue Nile contributes some eighty to ninety percent of the Nile River discharge. [ This contradicts the above.] The flow of the Blue Nile varies considerably over its yearly cycle and is the main contribution to the large natural variation of the Nile flow. During the wet season the peak flow of the Blue Nile often exceeds 5,663 m3/s (200,000 cu ft/s) in late August (a difference of a factor of 50). During the dry season the natural discharge of the Blue Nile can be as low as 113 m3/s (4,000 cu ft/s), although upstream dams regulate the flow of the river.
 * Indented line
 * Indented line

The two figures are somewhat contradictory and the confusion runs through the Wikipedia entries for the Blue Nile.

Here's the section from the separate article on the Blue Nile: []


 * Water flow
 * The flow of the Blue Nile reaches maximum volume in the rainy season (from June to September), when it supplies about two thirds of the water of the Nile proper. The Blue Nile, along with that of the Atbara River to the north, which also flows out of the Ethiopian Highlands, were responsible for the annual Nile floods that contributed to the fertility of the Nile Valley and the consequent rise of ancient Egyptian civilization and Egyptian Mythology. With the completion in 1970 of the Aswan High Dam in Egypt, the Nile floods ended.
 * The Blue Nile is vital to the livelihood of Egypt. Though shorter than the White Nile, 59% of the water that reaches Egypt originates from the Blue Nile branch of the great river; when combined with the Atbara River, which also has its source in the Ethiopian Highlands, the figure rises to 90% of the water and 96% of transported sediment. The river is also an important resource for Sudan, where the Roseires and Sennar dams produce 80% of the country's power. These dams also help irrigate the Gezira Plain, which is most famous for its high quality cotton. The region also produces wheat and animal feed crops.
 * Indented line
 * The Blue Nile is vital to the livelihood of Egypt. Though shorter than the White Nile, 59% of the water that reaches Egypt originates from the Blue Nile branch of the great river; when combined with the Atbara River, which also has its source in the Ethiopian Highlands, the figure rises to 90% of the water and 96% of transported sediment. The river is also an important resource for Sudan, where the Roseires and Sennar dams produce 80% of the country's power. These dams also help irrigate the Gezira Plain, which is most famous for its high quality cotton. The region also produces wheat and animal feed crops.
 * Indented line

Another source, the author of which appears knowledgeable, is to be found at http://www.egyptianagriculture.com/nile_river.html   It states:


 * The Nile River
 * Nile River Basin -- Statistics and Background Information
 * Area: 3.3 million km ² more than 81,500 km² are lakes and 70,000 km² are swamps. There are ten riparian countries: Burundi, Democratic Republic of Congo, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Rwanda, Sudan, Tanzania and Uganda.
 * Total rainfall and flow: The mean annual rainfall over the entire basin is about 2,000 billion cubic meters. The average annual flow at Aswan is about 84 billion cubic meters.''
 * Irrigated agriculture: In Egypt and Sudan, irrigated agriculture is the dominating sector. Over 5.5 million ha are under irrigation, with plans to expand an area of over 4.9 million ha. The present irrigation in the upper White Nile riparian areas is very small and there are plans for a future expansion over an area of 387,000 ha in Uganda, Tanzania and Kenya. In Ethiopia, the potential identified in the Blue Nile basin includes 100,000 ha of perennial irrigation and 165,000 ha of small-scale seasonal irrigation. The other riparian countries have no potential for irrigation in the basin and depend almost completely on rain-fed agriculture.
 * Population: The present 280 million is expected to grow to 591 million by 2025 at an average rate of 2.5-3.0%, with an average population density of 955/1,000 ha. Poverty indicators: GINI Index (> 50%); Half the population is below the international poverty line at $1 a day.
 * The History of the Nile River
 * --text cut out--
 * The Nile is formed by three tributaries, the Blue Nile, the White Nile, and the Atbara. The White Nile rises from its source in Burundi, passes through Lake Victoria, and flows into southern Sudan. There, near the capital city of Khartoum, the White Nile meets up with the Blue Nile which has its source in the Ethiopian highlands, near Lake Tana. Over 53% of the Nile's waters come from the Blue Nile. The two flow together to just north of Khartoum, where they are joined by the waters of the Atbara, whose source is also located in the Ethiopian highlands.
 * The river then flows north through Lake Nasser, the second largest man-made lake in the world, and the Aswan Dam before splitting into two major distributaries just north of Cairo. The two distributaries are the Rosetta branch to the west and the Dameita to the east. In ancient times, the number of distributaries was much greater, but slow water flow, human interference, and the accumulation of silt had led to the disappearance of all the other major distributaries. This has effectively led to the desertification of large stretches of Egyptian land. --more--
 * Lowell N. Lewis © 2009
 * Indented line
 * --text cut out--
 * The Nile is formed by three tributaries, the Blue Nile, the White Nile, and the Atbara. The White Nile rises from its source in Burundi, passes through Lake Victoria, and flows into southern Sudan. There, near the capital city of Khartoum, the White Nile meets up with the Blue Nile which has its source in the Ethiopian highlands, near Lake Tana. Over 53% of the Nile's waters come from the Blue Nile. The two flow together to just north of Khartoum, where they are joined by the waters of the Atbara, whose source is also located in the Ethiopian highlands.
 * The river then flows north through Lake Nasser, the second largest man-made lake in the world, and the Aswan Dam before splitting into two major distributaries just north of Cairo. The two distributaries are the Rosetta branch to the west and the Dameita to the east. In ancient times, the number of distributaries was much greater, but slow water flow, human interference, and the accumulation of silt had led to the disappearance of all the other major distributaries. This has effectively led to the desertification of large stretches of Egyptian land. --more--
 * Lowell N. Lewis © 2009
 * Indented line
 * The river then flows north through Lake Nasser, the second largest man-made lake in the world, and the Aswan Dam before splitting into two major distributaries just north of Cairo. The two distributaries are the Rosetta branch to the west and the Dameita to the east. In ancient times, the number of distributaries was much greater, but slow water flow, human interference, and the accumulation of silt had led to the disappearance of all the other major distributaries. This has effectively led to the desertification of large stretches of Egyptian land. --more--
 * Lowell N. Lewis © 2009
 * Indented line

I WOULD SAY THAT THESE NUMBERS NEED THE ATTENTION OF AN EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT.

Overall it looks as if about 85%+ of the annual flow of the Nile in Egypt may originate in the Ethiopian highlands, though not all of this comes from the Blue Nile proper, but I am not able to determine if this is really correct.

The issue of utilization of the Nile Waters by the various riparian countries is becoming a highly contentious political issue ( see: [] ), and is no longer of mere academic interest. Because of this emergent politics, I think Wikipedia should devote some effort now to the narrow question of investigating and improving the figures for flow from the various tributary branches into the main Nile system, and more broadly, actively encourage additional information and articles on the related Nile Basin water sharing problem generally. Additionally, other matters like the future of costs and methods of desalinization of seawater for agricultural use in the Middle East and North Africa, and the likely regional effects of geoengineering initiatives are likely to be relevant to this wider issue. FurnaldHall (talk) 22:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I've removed the second claim, "80% to 90% from the Blue Nile". It was unsourced and contradicted sourced information. Huon (talk) 03:23, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Eretria
"The Nile River, the longest river in the world [4], is an "international" river as its water resources is shared by ten countries, namely, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo, Kenya, Ethiopia, Eretria, Sudan and the Arab Republic of Egypt [5]."

Based on this sentence in the intro, I had to verify that I hadn't been spelling the country of Eritrea wrong all my life. It turns out I hadn't! It turns out Eretria is a place in Greece, and I could take an educated guess that although some of the Nile may reach Eretria after navigating the Mediterranean, I assume that it is the country of Eritrea that is supposed to be referenced in this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mateo565 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Well spotted, I've fixed it although you could have done it, I hope you start editing articles. Dougweller (talk) 20:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Etymology Neilos < Nahal ?
Possible etymologies include the Semitic Nahal meaning "river" from which the Hebrew nachal (Hebrew: נחל) is derived.[citation needed] / I found: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Nile&searchmode=none It says: Nile: one of the world's oldest surviving place names, from a Semitic root nahal "river." Unnamed in Old Testament, it is always merely "the river" (Hebrew yeor). / so Nahal > Neilos > Nile Böri (talk) 14:54, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I've added the source for the Semitic etymology and removed the apparently unrelated Hebrew. Thanks! Huon (talk) 15:06, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 March 2013
This needs changing because there is a lot of unescessary information. I hope you will let me.

Ryan27jo (talk) 09:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you be a little more specific? What exactly do you consider unnecessary? Huon (talk) 13:33, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

South Sudan
Needs to be updated for the creation of South Sudan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.210.190 (talk) 17:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.188.207 (talk) 22:18, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

"The Nile is an "international" river as its water resources are shared by ten countries" - Update: 11 countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kings of the Stone Age (talk • contribs) 19:39, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 March 2013
Source of river Nile; recent exploration in 2012 yet displayed in 2013 on the BBC television programme Top Gear suggests that the actual source of the Nile is South West of Lake Victoria, where the source of the Nile was thought to be by Victorian explorers, on a tributary leading into the Serengeti called the Grummeti on the opposite side of Lake Victoria to where Dr. Burkhart Waldecker thought the source was in Burundi and where Johanna Lumley thought the source was in Rwanda. BBC Top Gear found the source in a rocky terrain in the Serengeti in Northern Tanzania where the three presenters, Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May, held a race where the first to find the source would be thought of as the discoverer of the source of the River Nile. eventually the source was discovered by,"James May and two other blokes," as it said on the closing subtitles of the Top Gear episode. However this has not been proven although evidence suggests that this is highly likely. This is by taking into account that the mouth of a river has to flow into a tidal area. The Nile mouth is said to be at Alexandria however this leads out into the Mediterranean Sea which is not tidal meaning that the actual moth of the Nile is at the Straight of Gibraltar between Spain and Morocco flowing into the Atlantic Ocean. Also the Source of a river should be as far away from the mouth as possible. This evidence suggests that the theorem of Dr. Burkhart Waldecker and Johanna Lumley are incorrect and the theory of BBC Top Gear is correct. Though these theorem could all be incorrect as the Top Gear theory has not been proven as the source is the River Nile is still disputed to the present day.

31.53.191.36 (talk) 21:46, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I am fairly certain the reference to Joanna Lumley was a joke...82.2.221.53 (talk) 23:43, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Reference to her was because of her journey from sea to source in ITV's Joanna Lumley's Nile (talk) 14:35, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I removed all mention of Top Gear. - Camyoung54   talk  20:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 March 2013
Can the whole "Top Gear" part of the article be removed? Top Gear is an entertainment show. It shouldn't be used as a source. The whole edit has no citations whatsoever, and is factually wrong on several occasions - most notably the whole "has to flow into a tidal area" part. The Mediterranean Sea is DEFINITELY tidal and the mouth of the Nile is DEFINITELY in Egypt, not Gibraltar.

Santesteband (talk) 00:57, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * -Also, it's grammatically incorrect ('it's' instead of 'its'). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.158.247 (talk) 20:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "The Mediterranean Sea is DEFINITELY tidal and the mouth of the Nile is DEFINITELY in Egypt, not Gibraltar." Where is your proof of that? Who are you to say whats tidal and whats not.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.242.93 (talk) 11:00, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The Mediterranean is tidal. See the article on tides for information on its relatively small tide. Besides, even if we accept (which no one does) the peculiar assertion that the Mediterranean Sea is another name for the River Nile, it makes no difference because the source of a river is the maximum length along the course of the river and not in a straight line. --Lo2u (T • C) 19:00, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Source?
What-ho chaps, Just watched the Top Gear special where they find the source of the Nile. Felt it should be included in the old Wikipedia article, what? 81.10.172.74 (talk) 19:56, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd say there's a rather strong consensus that Top Gear is not a reliable source on geography and that we should ignore it as irrelevant. Huon (talk) 20:17, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you have a link to this consensus you speak of? I fail to see why a publicly funded "factual television programme" created by the BBC (which does comply with WP:RS) is considered unworthy of inclusion in the article compared to other speculated (and, in my opinion, less reliable) sources. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 21:10, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * You need to distinguish tongue in cheek irony from a "factual television programme". Had Top Gear wished to be taken seriously, they would not have claimed the source was discovered by "James May and three other blokes". A few points: 1. The idea that this is the true source relies on the assertion that the Mediterranean is "not tidal" and therefore part of the River Nile. This is obviously ridiculous. The Mediterranean actually evaporates more water than it receives so water flows in, not out, at the Strait of Gibraltar. The Mediterranean is not a river and it is tidal. 2. Even were the claim not ridiculous, it's irrelevant because where a river begins isn't affected by where it ends. The Top Gear producers believe a river's source is measured in a straight line and not along the course of the river. Nobody else does. Top Gear is a very funny, extremely ironic, piece of entertainment; I'm absolutely astonished that the humour was lost on some people and they actually take it seriously. --Lo2u (T • C) 06:53, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Our guidance on sources is more granular than Jasca suggests. Not TV program the BBC produces can be considered a RS, and even a program that may be an RS for some things (eg cars) isn't automatically an RS for material outside its remit. Looking at a map and then saying you've found the source of the Nile, even if on TV by a celebrity, doesn't belong here. Dougweller (talk) 07:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * To quote the section 'Modern achievements and exploration': "A team led by South Africans Peter Meredith and Hendrik Coetzee on April 30, 2005, became the first to navigate the major remote source of the Nile, the Akagera river, which starts as the Ruvyironza in Bururi Province, Burundi." Who is this Peter Meredith, or Hendrik Coetzee exactly? Why are they considered more reliable that the aforementioned factual television programme (which, I should point out was quoted from Wikipedia).


 * Now, ignoring the fact that that statement is unsourced; it basically boils down to the fact that the show Top Gear has made the assertion that they have discovered the source of the Nile; whether of not the Mediterranean is or isn't tidal (I personally cannot verifiy, but my understanding is that the Sea's tidal change is so minimal in relation to it's size, it's negligible), or whether their logic on how a river flows is flawed or not, the assertion is still there. This also begs the question, why is Top Gear's assertion "ridiculous" compared to any other? --Jasca Ducato (talk) 09:24, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Those were recognized achievements. The unsourced one needs sources showing it was significant. I'm not seeing anything serious about this one. So far as I know, those sources were recognised as sources. This spring isn't. Dougweller (talk) 13:28, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Jasca, firstly the source is self-published and not backed by any authoritative secondary or tertiary sources. See WP:SPS. Secondly you need to learn to distinguish the ironic from the serious. Thirdly, as I've explained already, common sense shows the claim is untrue and unreliable. --Lo2u (T • C) 13:58, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I would suggest learning what 'irony' means, before making a comment like that in future. There was nothing 'ironic' about the show whatsoever. Furthermore, whilst you may believe it to be 'common sense', I am arguing against that, so simply repeating that statement again is a redundancy. If you wanted to provide a reason as to why the information shouldn't be on the article then you should have stopped after saying it was not backed up by a secondary source, rather than start to be insulting and disrespectful. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 15:40, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No disrespect was intended. The programme was ironic and has led to a number of unhelpful edits from editors who seem not to understand this. It needs to be pointed out. If I understand correctly, you don't understand the arguments about the source of the Nile. Could I please ask that before you take this further, you make an effort to inform yourself and to try to understand? Also Wikipedia policies on pseudoscience and WP:FRINGE theories undoubtedly apply to an assertion that depends on the idea that the River Nile ends somewhere south of Spain. These specifically require editors to judge what is "obvious" and to apply "common sense". They also prohibit the inclusion of theories based only on primary sources. --Lo2u (T • C) 17:22, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

For those people saying that Top Gear is not a Fact based show. Top Gear has won Most Popular Factual Programme at the 12th National Television Awards, 13th National Television Awards, 14th National Television Awards and 16th National Television Awards and been nominated for the same award at the 10th National Television Awards, 11th National Television Awards, 15th National Television Awards, 17th National Television Awards and 18th National Television Awards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.242.93 (talk) 00:41, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Hendrik Coetzee has a wikipedia page
Please link his page to his name in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.109.226 (talk) 22:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Done, thanks. Huon (talk) 22:57, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 March 2013
In the Nile article, the 'unknown' nature of the source of the nile is incorrect; James May found the source of the Nile in season 19 episode 07 of Top Gear. He, Richard Hammond and Jeremy Clarkson found the surce and recorded it on television, providing visual proof. Pleae change as previous statement is mis=leading and incorrect!

60.242.149.239 (talk) 10:44, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed in detail. Top Gear did not discover the source of the Nile. What was possibly discovered was the point on the river that is furthest in a straight line from southern Spain. No authoritative source will ever recognize this "discovery".--Lo2u (T • C) 14:57, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Course of Nile and countries it flows through
This article indicates that the Nile river flows through Kenya which is incorrect. Graham Leslie: 86.169.87.51 (talk) 17:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Longest River
I think this article should be edited in order to leave out confusion so it does not state being known as the longest river in the World, because though it might be known as the largest it may confuse people reading the article and they may think that it IS the longest. It being known as the largest isn't a crucial fact to the article and leaving it out would likely help more people understand it as not being the largest. Instead I think it should be listed as it being the 2nd largest river. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.199.41.2 (talk) 17:32, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Except that the Nile effectively is the longest river. See List of rivers by length, or see the Encyclopedia Britannica article given as a source for that statement. "Largest" is much more debatable; the Amazon, for example, carries far more water. Huon (talk) 18:32, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

image - South Sudan
The watershed map image needs to have the Sudan - South Sudan border added to it. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 23:31, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


 * That map was created before South Sudan gained full independence and the user who created it has been inactive here since 2007. So someone who knows how to update the file or create a new one would have to step in, or we could maybe find an existing new one from somewhere. -- Racer X11 Talk to me Stalk me  00:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

hellooo how are you going — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.64.79 (talk) 08:27, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

width of the river
Where does the figure of 2.8 km for the Nile's width come from? Judging by the scale on Google maps, most of the river is well under one kilometer wide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.86.107 (talk) 22:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Water flows uphill ?
"Formerly Lake Tanganyika drained northwards along the African Rift Valley into the White Nile, making the Nile about 1,400 kilometres (870 mi) longer, until it was blocked in Miocene times by the bulk of the Virunga Volcanoes."

Lake Tanganyika has a surface elevation 150 metres below that of Lake Edward. How does the water flow uphill, to Lake Edward and then to Lake Albert and the Nile River ?? The wacky theories should be left back in the eighteenth century where they belong.Tallewang (talk) 11:46, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * There were major changes in the geology over millions of years - I see mention of a Miocene uplifting and other revents, see and.


 * Then there's this book which says "Hypothetical connections between Tanganyika and the Nile# (p111)

Hypothetical connections with the ancicnt Nile system have also been discussed in detail and a review is given by Coulter (1991a). There arc in fact analogies between the Tanganyika and Nile ichthyofaunas: the majority of fish families arc common to the two provinces, as well as many genera. Different routes have been postulated by which Nilotic species may have reached I-akc Tangan- yika, but 'there is no reason to believe from the evidence available that the Tanganyika fish fauna has been influ- enced by direct connections between the lake and the Nile. A few species may have immigrated by passing over the intervening divide with Lake Victoria. It is more likely rather, that affinities at generic and higher taxo- numic levels originate from a time before the formation of the lake when widespread ancicnt stocks were shared by both regions. Evidence from the palaeontology and modem distributions of some molluscs supports this conclusion' (Coulter, 1991a Coulter G. W. & Spigel R. H, 1991. Hydrodynamics In Coulter G.W (cd), Lake Tanganyika and its Life. pp, 49-75. Natural History Museum Publications. Oxford University Press, Oxford.). Our article on Lake Tanganyika is pretty lacking, which is a shame. But probably the section should go. Dougweller (talk) 13:14, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2013
Hello. I just saw one minor grammar error - it's in the Crossings subheader, and it's the first image captionedd "The Nile passes through Cairo, Egypt's, capital city" and it should be "The Nile passes through Cairo, Egypt's capital city" Thank you.

71.49.195.177 (talk) 17:57, 30 December 2013 (UTC)J


 * Yes check.svg Done - thanks! -- El Hef  ( Meep? ) 18:29, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Modern Achievements and Exploration section
Could Levinson Wood's attempt to walk the length of the Nile please be added here? He's attempting to leave on the expedition, or may have even already left. Here is the link from Outside Magazine: http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/driven/levison — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.193.171.129 (talk) 22:05, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

"Nile" vs. "Nile River"
I don't see a discussion of why it was decided to not include "River" in the title of this article, which seems standard in others (e.g., River Thames, Amazon River)? Without any rationale for exempting it from what seems to be the standard naming convention, the article should be moved to "Nile River." fishhead64 (talk) 03:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why it is titled the way it is, and I have no objections to having a discussion on the matter. But of course, besides determining if editors think that "River" should be included in the title, you must also determine whether they want "River Nile" or "Nile River".  Until consensus for one or the other of these is obtained, I would object to moving this page from Nile.   Un  sch  ool  07:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely a simple Google search should answer the question of where to place "River"?

fishhead64 (talk) 01:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Rarely does a "simple Google search", by itself, provide the definative answer to the questions debated on these talk pages. But you're welcome to try.  Un  sch  ool  05:59, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I see no further weighing in on the conversation, so I will make a move to bring it into line with other pages, and see what happens. FWIW, a Google search yielded almost four times as many hits for "Nile River" as "River Nile," so that is far-and-away the best known name for the River. fishhead64 (talk) 01:49, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I strongly object to your move. You brought it up here and got no support for your proposal.  I was the only one who commented, and I specifically said that until you obtained consensus for one or the other that I would object to moving this page.  You said that you would do a Google search, but did not bring the "results" of your search here before making the move.  It appears to me that you have not acted in accordance with WP:CONSENSUS.


 * If you had waited for others to comment (there was no rush here, as far as I know), or if you had just done a bit more research, you would have realized that this is an extremely common practice. Did it occur to you to look at a few of the other major rivers of the world?  Please take a look at the following rivers: Zambezi, Ganges, Euphrates, Tigris, Mekong, Danube, Dniester, Rhine, Elbe, Tagus, Ebro, Rhone, Seine.  All of these lack the word "River" in their title.  I realize now that I should have listed these before, but I just assumed that you would make a good-faith effort at seeking consensus, and that in that process, you would learn, as I had indicated, that things are not as simple as it may have appeared.   Un  sch  ool  02:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * As of now, the redirect for Nile is not working. I type in Nile, and I get the redirect page, not Nile River. Sigh.  Un  sch  ool  02:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) For what it's worth, the NGA's GEOnet Names Server gives "Nile River" as the "long form" and "Nile" as the "short form". For comparison, long and short forms for other rivers and places include: Rhine River, Rhine; Indus River, Indus; River Thames, Thames; River Niger, Niger; Columbia River, Columbia; Yukon River, Yukon; Atlantic Ocean, Atlantic. As counter-examples, there is no short form for Rio Grande, Gobi Desert, or Caribbean Sea. The long form of the Volga (river) is just "Volga", with no short form at all. The Sahara has no short form either, although Sahara Desert is listed as a "variant". Anyway, the query page for this stuff is here. I'm not sure how to link to specific result pages. And I'm not trying to say this source is particularly authoritative. It's just a US federal agency after all--setting standards for within the US federal government only. I'm also not arguing for naming this page Nile or Nile River. It doesn't matter to me. Just thought I'd give a source better than just Google search results. Pfly (talk) 03:59, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Moving back
This should be moved back. The primary use of "Nile" is for the river, and what seems standard is not the same as having an established naming convention. I'm rather concerned that the page move process which any non-admin would have had to go through with this was sidestepped here as well. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:06, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Although this unilateral move was, IMHO, not for the best without debate, I think that it may well be the best title. I couldn't find the bit in the WP:MOS about titling of rivers (I think the most common local description is indicated as the best). Given the edit summary it would be handy if fishhead64 could point us to the part of the WP:MOS he found this in. However a look at List of rivers by length indicates many watercourses are titled as;


 * name River.
 * Again, I think fishhead was rather too WP:BOLD - but that is why we have WP:BRD. There are, of course, plenty of other rivers not titled this way (see the disambig River Itchen) but many on the list referenced above do seem to be. Pedro : Chat  20:41, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:BRD is not applicable here. BRD only works with a normal edit that an editor can contest by reverting the edit.  Is that an option here, when the page has been moved?  I have been under the impression that it cannot be done by a normal editor without screwing up the links; had BRD applied, I would already have moved the page back, instead of asking for help.  Un  sch  ool  05:21, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've asked User:Fishhead64 to comment here as I'm uncomfortable reverting his actions if he does, per his edit summary, have a WP:MOS link. Pedro : Chat  07:45, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Why this was not a proper application of either BOLD or BRD
There was no "endless" discussion, there were no tricky editing issues.
 * The overview for BRD says that it exists to deal with the following "Problem":
 * Editing a particular page has become tricky, too many people are stuck discussing endlessly, and no progress can be made.


 * The overview for BRD says the second step is to
 * Wait until someone reverts (or modifies) your edit.
 * Sounds nice, but a) there was no "edit" to modify, and b) the change (a move) was not revertible by anyone but an administrator.


 * BRD says
 * BRD is not a justification for imposing one's own view.
 * And fishead offered almost no justification except his own view. The only evidence that he offered was a simple google search.  Most of us with any amount of experience have learned that a single, simple Google search is rarely by itself justification for doing much of anything—there are just too many other considerations that have to be taken into account, including cross referencing of web pages—but still, a google search may often can be helpful in moving discussions towards resolution.  But wait a minute, has anyone even checked his figures?  Of course, he didn't offer any actual figures, but fishead claims to have gotten "almost four times as many hits for 'Nile River' as 'River Nile'.  Really?  Well, when I did the search just now, I got 1,110,000 hits for "Nile River" and 819,000 hits for "River Nile".  So that means that "River Nile" hits were three times more common than Fishhead claimed.
 * Note, 14 hours later: I just now have clicked yet again on the links to "Nile River" and "River Nile" Google searches.  "River Nile" now shows only 524,000 hits.  (Damn, I should have done a screen capture on that 819,000!)  But the point is, doing such a search a single time is a poor way to make decisions on such matters.  Un  sch  ool  21:00, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't what we write here affect the search results in Google? Just asking. 98.82.3.150 (talk) 03:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * BRD says that
 * It is a way for editors who have a good grasp of a subject to more rapidly engage discussion
 * Without putting too fine a point on it, it is quite obvious that Fishhead does not have a 'good grasp' on the subject, since he stated that the Nile was "exempted" from standard practice, without recognizing that articles on many of the world's major rivers were likewise titled. Assuming good faith on Fishhead's part, I realize that while he may have been aware of the world's longest river, he perhaps had never heard of the Ganges, the Euphrates, the Rhine, the Danube, the Mekong, and many others.  But lacking this fundamental awareness, he should have been even more cautious in making this unilateral move; that is why BRD is recommended for editors with a "good grasp" of the topic.

And I am more than willing to concede that not only do "many" of the world's rivers include the word "River" in their title, the vast majority do (my guess would be that it is well over 95% of the rivers, if not 99%+, do so). But it is the in just such rivers as these, the major rivers of the world, that these exceptions are made. Why? I'm not sure. But that's not the point. The point is that these things are decided not by the personal opinion of a single Wikipedian.

Someone more wired than me might take this as an abuse, by fishead, of his administrative powers, since he made a move which was not revertable by the only person who had commmented on the move, and who had indicated that the move was unacceptable. But I don't think that's what's happened here at all. What I suspect happened was that fishead saw something that seemed pretty obvious to him, and when only one person replied to his post, he figured that it would be okay to go ahead. The problem was that he completely and totally ignored (or at least, failed to take into consideration) the counsel offered by that one poster (moi). This could have been done without causing all this rancor, with just a pinch of courtesy. Anyway, from everything that I see, fishead appears to be a well-intentioned guy, but he fumbled this one. It's okay, I've fumbled too. And when people tell me so, I either acknowledge that I blew it, or else I talk it out until we can see eye-to-eye.

Out of respect for the WP:BRD cycle mentioned by Pedro, I respectfully ask that an administrator move this back to Nile so that this matter can be properly discussed. Un sch  ool  06:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Update
As there's still been no reply from the moving admin, I've raised a request at WP:RM to get this shifted back. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 18:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've moved the page back to Nile and fixed the resulting double-redirects. I guess we'll see how that goes. -GTBacchus(talk) 22:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If the name of the river is very well known and is overwhelmingly used only for the river, then I see no reason for including "river" in the name of the article. The Nile is I believe generally known just as "the Nile". Same with the Rhine, the Danube, the Zambezi and a number of other rivers. I only see a reason for including "river" if there is a need to disambiguate (eg Mississippi is a river and a state), if "river" is normally used in the name (eg Orange River) or the river isn't particularly well known on a global scale.


 * This avoids the can of worms of "X River/River X" also, which is useful since otherwise the issue is thorny as both are acceptable according to different standards of English. One can't just do a Google count because articles can use any national standard of English.82.32.72.129 (talk) 23:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What he said. 98.82.3.6 (talk) 13:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't get it. What's the issue here? 50.193.171.69 (talk) 17:32, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, 50.193.171.69, and welcome to Wikipedia! The "issue" was (past tense may be more appropriate here, given that this discussion is a few years old) if it mattered if this article was called "Nile River", or "River Nile", or just "Nile".  From my reading of the above, the more intelligent editors advanced the position that just plain "Nile" was acceptable, and probably preferred, though for the life of me, I don't know why--most rivers in the United States (where I live) have the word "River" in their name.


 * Are we done here, 50.193.171.69? --76.106.149.108 (talk) 05:31, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess so. 50.193.171.69 (talk) 19:58, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Cleanup needed
I've given it a start: untangled the mess in the language section (particularly, 1 included the Egyptian Arabic pronunciation&mdash;ignore the Standard pronunciation if we're only keeping one; 2 Ethiopian (Amharic) name is only relevant&mdash;and traditionally only even applied&mdash;to the Blue Nile; 3 they are Egyptians and their language is (very late) Egyptian but the common English name of their language is just Coptic) and fixed some minor errors in the phrasing and statements of the etymology section, but this article still needs some work. Some things that jump out at once:


 * There is no source provided for the length of the river in the lead
 * The description of the river equivocates and claims Lake Victoria's affluents are the Nile and it's unknown which one is the proper 'source'; we should clearly state that the Nile itself begins at the Lake or explain very fully and slowly why we're going off on our own here (and provide much vaguer "lengths" in the rest of the article)
 * The page calls the White Nile a "tributary" - it isn't (if it is, the Nile itself is much shorter, running only from Khartoum, and that needs to be explained throughout the article and the lengths changed)
 * We need at least one map that shows the Darfur headwaters the White Nile joins. I added file:1911Nile.png to the history section, but really we should just have a modern map with that same info.
 * Similarly, more treatment of Bahr al Ghazal, particularly.
 * More alt names. At least in the EB, they claim the common Egyptian name was none of these but el-Barh. Various stretches have other local names like the Abay (Don't put these other names in the lead, though: Rename the etymology section.)

— Llywelyn II   14:37, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR
I could see an argument being made that the Nile is a British 'special case'. That said, to date, it hasn't been made; most of the page already uses American English; and the page began with American English. [That 2001 edit somehow links backwards to a 2010 one (Merge snafu?) but still seems oldest per the page history.] Accordingly, I've adjusted all of the convert to display the American kilometer pending a new consensus to the contrary. — Llywelyn II   14:45, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Wildlife
Flora and fauna of the Nile should be discussed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.161.105 (talk) 22:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Slanted wording
"The Nile was so significant to the lifestyle of the Egyptians, that they created a god dedicated to the welfare of the Nile’s annual inundation."

This is pretty silly. The author makes the assumption that deities are created by humans. 216.69.219.3 (talk) 22:14, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Without further evidence to the contrary, in what way is it silly to assume that deities are NOT created by humans? If you have evidence, please share it. 2.125.77.121 (talk) 14:57, 4 May 2014 (UTC)Lance Tyrell

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2014
The page has two links to the Bahr al Ghazal, both talking about the river, but they go to different places. Please leave alone Bahr al Ghazal, but please change Bahr al Ghazal so that it also pipes to the river. The bahr al Ghazal article is about a region, not the river.

2001:18E8:2:28CA:F000:0:0:CB89 (talk) 16:49, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Anupmehra  - Let's talk!  01:34, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Anupmehra, what were you thinking? The request said "please change Bahr al Ghazal so that it also pipes to the river".  What's ambiguous about that?  The river article got mentioned in the same link.  Nyttend (talk) 01:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Were people in ancient times able to sail southward?
This is something that is not discussed in the history section, but how lucrative was the nile as a two-way transportation system before the steam engine by going southward against the current? 2602:306:36A6:E080:1C2E:4480:5D12:D10C (talk) 06:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2014
Please change "Stanely" to "Stanley" in caption of photograph as the name is misspelled

64.238.244.146 (talk) 14:36, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

✅ Thanks for pointing that out - Arjayay (talk) 15:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

THE NILE
where does the nile river start? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.215.177.149 (talk) 18:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC) meadetranan sea!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.140.236 (talk) 23:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it ends at the Mediterranean Sea. The River originates in the mountains in central Africa. But, the point of where it originates is an interesting one. The article claims that the Blue Nile begins in Lake Tana, in Ethopia. That is incorrect. If you look at any decent map of Africa, you'll find that the Blue Nile originates in Lake Albert and flows northward from there. The river that originates in Ethopia is more likely the White Nile River which flows westward toward Khartoum where it meets the Blue Nile that flows northward form Lake Albert. In any event, this entire article has a mix of correct and incorrect information that creates a great deal of confusion as to the origin, flow and geography of the Nile and needs to be re-written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.66.236 (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

James May and the "geographically illiterate search for the source of the river Nile"
Quoting the The Independent. This claim doesn't belong in the article - Top Gear is an entertainment program, not to be taken seriously for this. No reliable sources corroborate this claim. Dougweller (talk) 12:01, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Hieroglyphs in lede
Would it be better to use WikiHiero markup to include the hieroglyph name of the Nile inline, rather than the currently clunky uncaptioned image referred to as an aside by the text? --McGeddon (talk) 12:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

nile river
where is the Nile river primarily located a-Algeria b-Egypt c-Libya or d-Morocco please help me!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.25.39.150 (talk) 15:41, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * If you read the article, and look at the map included, you will be able to find the answer to your question. IdreamofJeanie (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:54, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

The White Nile
The lead in this article says that the White Nile is a tributary of the Nile, whereas under Course we are told that the Nile above Khartoum is "also" known as the White Nile. Which is right? If the White Nile is a tributary, surely that puts the source of the Nile at Khartoum and the river much less than 4000 miles long.?--Mhockey (talk) 18:12, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Nile in Egyptian Arabic
ter'a (ter3a) is the name of a narrow local nile river branch in Egyptian Arabic which is connected to the ancient Egyptian Name "itru3a" which in Egyptian Arabic itter'3a(el-ter3a). Also river in Arabic is "nahr" not nahal which means bees! --108.162.136.215 (talk) 04:29, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Nile. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150419005329/http://earthtrends.wri.org/maps_spatial/maps_detail_static.php?map_select=299&theme=2 to http://earthtrends.wri.org/maps_spatial/maps_detail_static.php?map_select=299&theme=2
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070627132253/http://www.nilebasin.org/aboutUs.htm to http://www.nilebasin.org/aboutUs.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 07:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2015
In the heading, the following text: Coptic: ⲫⲓⲁⲣⲱ, P(h)iaro should be edited to include also the Sahidic Coptic form of the name. I suggest: Coptic: Sahidic ⲡⲉⲓⲉⲣⲟ peiero, Bohairic ⲫⲓⲁⲣⲱ p(h)iaro Note that here I have also suggested changing the punctuation and capitalization of the Bohairic part of the entry.

Emmstel (talk) 22:36, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * My first reaction was to turn this down per MOS:FORLANG, but since we seem to have scooted right on past that already, I'll leave this open for someone who may have a bit more direct knowledge of the language (or at least has the fonts installed) . &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 19:54, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've posted a request at WT:EGYPT for someone with knowledge of the languages to take a look at this. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:55, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Until consensus is developed. Mdann52 (talk) 13:08, 31 August 2015 (UTC)