Talk:Nile crocodile/Archive 1

Bite Force
The part about the 3000 psi to 5000 psi bite is blatently false. And you know why? Because bite force is not measured in PSI, PSI is a measure of PRESSURE. Pressure increases as an object gets smaller with the same amount of weight behind it, Pressure has to do with area thus. FORCE has nothing to do with area. That episode of Dangerous Encounters you can clearly hear Brady Barr relate the bite results in pounds of force. NOT PSI. So the 3000 psi and 5000 psi figures should be changed to 3000 lbs of force and 5000 lbs of force. Thank you. Regards. DinoJones (talk) 22:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * As I'm not familiar with the work of Brady Barr, so I can't comment on how he recorded bite forces. Needless to say that it should have been in the SI units newtons (which would have avoided this issue). User:DinoJones, can you provide a reference for the bite force information (values plus units)? Cheers Mark t young (talk) 23:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you mean like a screen cap of the bite force values given in that particular episode of Brady Barr's show? I'll do my best if that's what you meant.DinoJones (talk) 06:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Range Map
There's a nice range map over at Wikimedia Commons. Anyone want to be nice and swipe it? :) 68.81.231.127 14:28, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I can link directly. 68.81.231.127 11:36, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Krokodeilopolis
Given the etymology of crocodile, "pebble man/worm," I conjecture that the Greek city name sould be Krokodeilopolis, rather than Krokodopolis, because the man/worm morpheme of the latter seems overly syncopated.
 * That would be good to correct, but any references? 68.84.34.154 22:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Article removed from Good articles
This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because there aren't any references. Otherwise it's great. Worldtraveller 23:22, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I used entirely on-line sources when I wrote the article. Since I have a bit of a bias against that, I labeled the section external links. But looking it over again, the sources aren't too bad -- while it could certainly use some print sources and footnoting (now that we have the new tags), and the mythological sources are at best weak, the technical information on the Nile crocodile is from reasonably strong secondary sources. 68.84.34.154 22:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Pictures of crocodiles
I would like to add my page on crocodiles to your external links please: http://www.african-safari-pictures.com/crocodile-pictures.html 198.54.202.82 15:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Editing
Some slight clean-up and rephrasing of Introduction to remove redundancies. CFLeon 22:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

"No animal is safe, even big cats
For some reason, someone continues to add this sentence when it makes no sense in the context of the article. The preceeding sentence states that elephants and adult hippos are "safe" from crocodiles so it is erroneous and contradictory. Furthermore, lions are listed among the animals in the next sentence so the big cat reference is not necessary. This sentence should remain deleted from the page as it is redundant, contradictory, and overall not useful. 71.248.25.226 00:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe you are right. Wording can be changed. 85.97.11.49 14:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Crocs and Birds
The Egyptian Plover and Spur-winged Plover are both claimed to clean crocodile teeth. A photograph of this behaviour would be useful. Drutt 14:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

"Egyption Butts"
Any reason this section constantly references "butt" or "butts"? Looks like vandalism, but on the off-chance there's some meaning of "butt" I don't know, I'll merely present it for discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.144.64.204 (talk) 18:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It was vandalized a short while ago. Fixed. AnmaFinotera 18:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Maximum size
Due to wikipedia as a source the largest confirmed Nile Crocodile (6.45 m.) is longer than the largest confirmed Saltwater Crocodile wich was hardly longer than 6.3 m. --Draco ignoramus sophomoricus (talk) 21:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "Due to Wikipedia as source"? What does that mean? The source listed in the article is this: "Wood, The Guinness Book of Animal Facts and Feats. Sterling Pub Co Inc (1983), ISBN 978-0851122359 ". Funkynusayri (talk) 21:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It would be good to document what evidence Guinness based this on as it is pretty controversial - with the Salty being the generally accepted as the larger species - if the largest confirmed specimen does belong to the Nile then this is worth outlining.  The Salty article does seem a lot more conservative about claims of size than this article is - for example Gustav being reported as 20-30' long - which is a huge range of possibilities - mentioning that he has been reported as being up to more than 9 metres long without comment on how likely this is may be a bit misleading. Djambalawa


 * Mokele were is the source for this 21 foot nile crocodile?

~you don't want me too insult you yet you think you can call me names like that and not expect a negative response now how does that work and based on what I have seen on the anaconda disscussion page I think it is safe to say that out of both of us I'm not the idiot here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.100.52 (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Removal of following section
"However, adults also have enemies. Rock pythons, hippos, lions and leopards, and rhinos occassionally prey on adult nile crocodiles. The adult nile crocodile's biggest enemie is the rock python. The rock python coils around the crocodile and kills it, than swallows it whole. " I find this highly suspect and removed due to lack of references. First off, rock pythons can take young crocs but I can't imagine it's even physically possible that an adult nile crocodile could be eaten by a python. Leopards are way too small to threaten an adult crocodile, and I've never even heard of an interaction between this water-avoiding cat and water-loving reptile. Hippos and rhinos are herbivores, although hippos may kill crocs out of aggression. Adult crocodiles may be preyed on by lions.

The King of Africa's Killers

The Nile crocodile is such a monstrous and aggressive creature that they have been known to attack adult elephants but not in the way you would think. They will wait for an elephant to come drink then lunge out and bite the trunk and the bite is so powerful that it can break the trunk and this can end up killing or making life harder for the elephant since the trunk is the primary part of an elephant's body that it uses for getting food and water. Now a Nile crocodile 21 feet long weighing 2,400 pounds will slaughter lions, leopards,young or even occasionally teenage or sometimes adult hippos. If a Giraffe came to the water to drink it could probably break it's neck with it's bite. The only threat to a 21 foot 2,400 pound behemoth is a hunter with a big rifle or machine gun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.100.52 (talk) 01:59, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. Hippos regularly kill adult crocodiles. Please cite sources in your TP arguments.50.111.55.122 (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Diet
Ok, here is the general idea. I compiled information scattered around in the whole section into two solid paragraphs of good sourced material with only minor rechecks of previous versions. If you look at 2008 edits, mentions such as separate hunting habitats have been partially removed, whereas this is the key idea here.

Two subsequent paragraphs contain unsourced text and blah about how they hunt. Unless this was written by residents of Kenya, we actually need proof. People see it as unproductive edits because the rest is just bias, so maybe elaborate there. But ummm can we please NOT have undos a/p one person trying to improve the whole article without reaching consensus meeting with same person from the other side? If you don't like what I did, discuss it here BEFORE reverting, and not vice versa, because maybe others will come and improve it.

Or give it at the very least 24 hours. I'd really appreciate that. Shadiac (talk) 05:46, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Carnivore?
Shouldn't it be said SOMEWHERE in the article that this animal is a carnivore?--Michaelphillipr (talk) 12:20, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean aside from the fact that there's an entire section on its diet, detailing on the animals it eats? Mokele (talk) 13:54, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

What I have heard
i heard on tv maybe a few years ago that the nile crocodile is nearly extinct. what i heard is that there wasnt enough of them left for the species to survive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.75.209 (talk) 20:15, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Endangered Status
Pretty sure that crocs aren't least concern, and somebody forgot to capatalize the LC, so it was probably an intended mess-up. Someone please correct it? I can't because Im no expert on crocs. xP.

Andrew6111 (talk) 13:33, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Fix case
I've changed Nile Crocodile to Nile crocodile at several places in this article. There seemed no consistency. Please, if you decide to revert, do it selectively, some of them are arguable but others are ridiculous. Andrewa (talk) 23:57, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Desert Crocodiles
Here is the complete study that a Spanish team carried on in 2008 http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0014734 They unveiled the conditions of Saharan crocodiles attesting that they aren't extinct yet, at least in some parts of the desert.

A map: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0014734.g001&representation=PNG_M

--Bentaguayre (talk) 22:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Split with C. suchus
Something to keep an eye on and at least mention in the article: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/09/14/nile-crocodile-is-actually-two-species-and-the-egyptians-knew-it/
 * Not only is it two, what we've been calling the "Nile crocodile" is paraphyletic! I've made the split; there's still more to put into the Desert Crocodile article as I haven't finished reading the paper yet. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 06:07, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Range map is outdated
It was made in 2004, before the west African species was acknowledged as separate. FunkMonk (talk) 03:31, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Regarding sizes of extant crocodilians
Recently, there has been a disagreement on the sizes of extant crocodilians and how the scientific community classifies this data and publishes them. It concerns this article as well, as I see some users are reverting edits, purely with good intensions (goodwill edits). However as these edits are inconsistent and etymologically incorrect, they are harming the article(s). I have listed some crucial points taking one user's edits as a starting point. It is on Talk:Saltwater crocodile, please read carefully before reverting edits on this subject matter. Berkserker (talk) 04:35, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * User:WelcometoJurassicPark listen carefully. First of all you need to learn to respect other people. Second you don't know if I'm a scientist or not. Third, what I said has nothing to do with me being a scientist, my discussion was about the already existing information and data excepted by herpetology. If you can't comprehend the discussion this isn't my problem, if you keep vandalising these pages, you will be blocked. Even though I saw your talk page full of vandalism complaints, in my discussion I had respectfully stated your reverts as good faith edits, now you are making it clear it was vandalism. Berkserker (talk) 05:01, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I missed one point, you claim it is "my opinion" that the given species weighs this much, however all are from published work of scientists, unlike your claim in which you say a single Guinness record of a single animal holds true for the weight/length ratio for the entire species (you at least need a sample size of 40...). Plus it was you to claim species A weighs more than species B without backing these claims. In the following paper already presented in the article (which you needed to read before reverting, but you didn't), you will see the C. porosus and C. niloticus have similar length/weight ratios, even though the author notes that the ratio of Lake Rudolf crocodiles with and empty stomach was far higher compared to populations elsewhere, hinting to a lower weight/length ratio, as the habitat suitability and prey availability is inferior to other habitats occupied by other populations. A similar study was made in Australia following new laws prohibiting hunting of saltwater crocodiles in the 80s (See Webb and Manolis (1989)). Despite the habitat and prey availability issue, you will see that weight/length ratio is very similar to that of C. porosus. According to the regression analysis on the article (Graham, A. D. (1968). The Lake Rudolf Crocodile (Crocodylus niloticus Laurenti) Population. Masters of Science Thesis, The University of East Africa.), you will see 4.5 meters corresponds to slightly over 400kg, 5 meters corresponds to slightly under 600 kg (compared to the 4.8 meter individual weighed at 680 kg by Graham and Beard (1973), from another habitat/population - more than 25% difference in body weight to length ratio), and 6-6.1 meters corresponds to 1000 kg, according to the Lake Rudolf sample. This puts the 6.45 m. individual shot in Tanzania either at a starving state, loss of blood after being shot or it shows the people measuring the animal made an error, possibly measuring over curves (I didn't read anywhere it was measured accurately by scientists, which you claim), or a combination of these reasons. Berkserker (talk) 06:20, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

You can also find a bunch of reliable sources saying that 20 ft (6.1 m) Nile crocodiles usually weigh about 2000 lb (910 kg), and saying that Nile crocodiles are proportionally lighter than Saltwater crocodiles (so lighter at the same length, or even if they are slightly longer), and why are you just talk about that 5 meters corresponds to slightly under 600 kg, compared to the 4.8 meter individual weighed at 680 kg by Graham and Beard (1973), from another habitat/population - more than 25% difference in body weight to length ratio, the opposite can happen, too (so it can be more than 25% lower than expected, too), and you don't have sources for being at a starving state, loss of blood of for a measirung error, but I let you be in the way you want, because I don't wanna be blocked. User:WelcometoJurassicPark (talk) 10:37, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It isn't really about how I want to be or not. I'm just putting together the best evidence to present the most accurate information for the good of the article. It isn't my goal to get you blocked either, you know how subtle and polite I approached your discussions, in order not to offend you, until I was offended myself that is. My point is, a single specimen can not be taken reference for an entire species' weight/length ratio. This is why I advised to use the data for this specimen only. Berkserker (talk) 15:35, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Humans in 'Hunting and diet' Section?
Given the Nile Croc's extensive predation of humans, would it not make sense to list them among its prey in the appropriate section under the 'Mammals' sub-heading under 'Hunting and diet'?Sɑk pʰʌpəʔ (talk) 02:17, 15 December 2016 (UTC)


 * No, we're just biased in that we notice when humans are eaten, but now wildebeest or fish. Even if you restrict to adult crocs, the fraction of calories the total crocodile population acquires from humans is insignificant. HCA (talk) 16:48, 15 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The same is likely true of the Saltwater Crocodile, but there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_crocodile#Hunting_and_diet) humans are listed as prey under the 'Hunting and diet' section.Sɑk pʰʌpəʔ (talk) 14:18, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Deaths
The Nile Crocodile is considered to be one of the most dangerous reptiles in the world and is responsible for nearly to over 1,000 deaths in Africa every year. One study posited the number of attacks by Nile crocodiles per year as 275 to 745, of which 63% are known to be fatal. Because these reptiles live in close proximity to humans, attacks are frequent which can lead to more possible fatal attacks. Mariofan 520 (talk) 02:17, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, we can read the article too. What's your purpose in copying chunks of it to the talkpage? Meters (talk) 07:10, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Miocene fossil record?
While many of the fossil specimens assigned to the nile crocodile come from the Quarternary, these papers imply that fossil Nile crocodiles have been found as far back as the Miocene. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature00880, https://www.nature.com/articles/318173a0--Bubblesorg (talk) 20:01, 20 July 2020 (UTC)