Talk:Nine Inch Nails/Archive 1

Initial message
Moved from halo:

Note: Into the Void is an official Nine Inch Nails release, but not a Halo
 * Halo 1 - Down in It (single, 1989)
 * Halo 2 - Pretty Hate Machine (first full LP, 3x Platinum according to Billboard, 1989)
 * Halo 3 - Head Like a Hole (maxi-single, 1990)
 * Halo 4 - Sin (single, 1990)
 * Halo 5 - Broken (EP, 1992)
 * Halo 6 - Fixed (remixes from broken, 1992)
 * Halo 7 - March of the Pigs (single, 1994)
 * Halo 8 - The Downward Spiral (second LP, 4x Platinum, 1994 )
 * Halo 9 - Closer to God (single, 1994)
 * Halo 10 - Further Down the Spiral (US release) (remixes from TDS, 1995)
 * Halo 10 v2 - Further Down the Spiral (UK release) (remixes from TDS, 1995)
 * Halo 11 - The Perfect Drug (single from David Linch's "Lost Highway" soundtrack song "The Perfect Drug", composed by Trent Reznor, 1997)
 * Halo 12 - Closure (double video set which contains every official Nine Inch Nails video as well as a live performance from the TDS era, 1997)
 * Halo 13 - The Day the World Went Away (single, 1999)
 * Halo 14 - The Fragile (Double-Disc LP which debuted at #1 on Billboard, 1999)
 * Halo 15 - We're in This Together (single, divided into 3 parts and available as import only, 1999)
 * Halo 16 - Things Falling Apart (remixes from The Fragile, 2000)
 * Halo 17 - And All That Could Have Been (cd 1) / Still (cd 2) (live performance from the Fragility V2.0 tour available as single and double album, as well as concert documents on VHS and DVD (Dolby Digital or DTS versions for 5.1 Surround are available, yet both contain a Stereo mix, 2002)

This format is more detailed than the article. Maybe this should replace the list in the current page? Evercat 22:09, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Revert
I reverted this until some sources are cited for the change. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   10:03, 2004 Sep 15 (UTC)

Non NIN albums by TR
Just a thought -- perhaps this section would better suit the Trent Reznor entry? It really doesn't have anything to do with Nine Inch Nails, and the Reznor entry could use more material.


 * I have now moved this material to the Trent Reznor entry. Twiin 08:51, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

and all that could have been
Should there really be seperate pages for And All That Could Have Been and still ? After all, AATCHB comprises of the live CD, the still CD, and the DVD/VHS, right? Psxer 08:26, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

logo
Is it necessary to flip the N on every instance of NIN? The reversed N is part of the logo, not part of the abbreviation. You'll note TR never flips the N when he refers to the band as 'nin' on his website. Twiin 10:20, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Formatting the word "halo"
How should the word "halo" be formatted? Is it just a release number, or is it another name for the title? All of the halo pages and this page should be converted to the same format. Possibilites:


 * halo - informal, synonymous with "number" - e.g., Broken is release number 5 / halo 5.
 * Halo - formal, synonymous with the album title - e.g., Broken is also known as Halo 5.
 * Halo - somewhere in-between - e.g., Broken is Halo 5.

Formal might work. When someone says "Halo 14 is my favorite," that is closer to "The Fragile is my favorite" than "NIN's 14th release is my favorite" Than again, informal might work too. When someone says "I have all of the halos!", that means "I have every NIN release!" Perhaps a combination of formatting, depending on context?

Edit: at least in the introductory paragraphs of each halo, I've used Halo # format because it's an aka for the title.

--Tripps 17:39, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Article Re-organization
I re-organized the article yesterday and added a bit more info. Some things that I did:


 * section on the naming of NIN, which will answer info-seekers's question about that. Don't know if this should be the first section on not, but there it is for now.
 * section on the genre -- because it's tedious to see NIN always referred to as an industrial band when this isn't totally true.
 * began italizing the word halo when it's used as an aka for the album name.
 * future releases section to collect all data on future projects. Just brief descriptions, however -- the main data belongs on the relevant halo page.
 * moved Closure DVD info to Closure (Nine Inch Nails).
 * reversed the order of the live band listing. Makes more sense to go from earliest to latest.
 * trivia section for all the miscellaneous info.
 * re-arranged the links. Removed the French NIN page link (belongs on the French wiki article for NIN).  Put all of the discussion forums at the bottom of the list in alphabetical order.  Added the touring link.

Things I plan to add in the future on this article or the halo articles (or would like to see others add):


 * music video data
 * better history of the band
 * impact on culture (copycat bands, "Closer" as a favorite strip club song, etc.)
 * awards won section

Essentially, I want this articles to be in good shape for when With Teeth comes out. There'll be all kinds of new people seeking NIN info and this is one place some of them will come.

--Tripps 18:11, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

An Amazing Article
In case everyone doesn't know the Resources section from Nin.com (http://www.nin.com/resources/index.html) contains a link to this article. I think that's a great indication of how good this article is and everyone who has worked on it deserves a pat on the back. [i know this really doesn't belong here I just thought everyone would've liked to know about it]. Naufana 17:13, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that myself and thought it was pretty cool. I wonder if the nin.com webmaster is a wiki-contributor around these parts?
 * --Tripps 03:13, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if the person or people who wrote most of this article read its talk page much, but I wonder if any of them could be convinced to head over to the Industrial Rock page and give it some love? It is, to be blunt, horrible.

Into the Void
Naufana asked whether the Into the Void single should be on the "official releases" section to ensure a complete discography. Into the Void would be listed as Halo 16, despite Things Falling Apart already having that halo number. Naufana worried that some might argue Into the Void was an airplay-only single and thus shouldn't be in the official discography. However, Naufana notes that the Austrailian release listed on Into the Void is not the radio single.


 * Tripps suggests removing Into the Void from the "offical releases" section. He sees the halo numbers as the primary key of the table, such that each listed release should have a unique halo number.  He also notes that the Into the Void single is not on nin.com's official discography.  He suggests mentioning in on a seperate note.  Naufana agrees on the compromise.


 * Rynne later noted that the commerically-available Into the Void single does not have a halo number at all, though the airplay-only single is labeled Halo 16. Rynne suggests that other airplay-only singles labeled with halo numbers are not considered to be "official" Halos, and Into the Void should follow this precedent.

(refactor by Rynne)

Note: the discography format was changed when Rynne moved it to Nine Inch Nails discography. All commerial and airplay-only singles are listed together, while a seperate list groups haloed releases by halo number.

Misc. non-musical Nin Material
I was wondering if the Fragility 2.0 Tour Book should be included somewhere in this article. Naufana 03:11, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

perhaps a list of general non-musical nin stuff, excluding ubiquitous items like T-shirts & posters. Material like the nin notebooks, i heard there are (literally) nine inch nails that have the word 'broken' stamped in them that were promo items from that era, some of you may have heard about the NIN condom that was created and distributed at the initial release of 'Down in it'. (btw once finals are over I'm going to uncover and dust off all my old Nin related magazines, etc and attempt to write a comprehensive history of the band)Naufana 00:30, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

NIN logo copyright
User:Insomniak uploaded a simple copy of the Nine Inch Nails logo (created by Gary Talpas, but with unknown copyright status) to Wikimedia Commons. That logo was made unavailable, and was replaced by the With Teeth cover in the Nine Inch Nails article. The With Teeth cover is credited to Rob Sheridan, and Insomniak asked about possible copyright violation issues.


 * User:Freakofnurture noted that album covers are covered under fair use image policy. He wondered whether a cropped album cover (to wit: cropping an album cover to leave only the NIN logo) was also covered by fair use.


 * User:Jdowland agreed with Freakofnuture's thought, but dissuaded use of fair-use images. He suggested a photograph of the band taken by an editor could be added to the article with no question of copyright violation.

Lathe of Heaven
The Lathe of Heaven is speculated as "an indirect inspiration for some of the songs on With Teeth" because nin.com had used some text from the Lathe of Heaven as backgrounds on the website (see The NIN Hotline, July 03 and The NIN Hotline, November 03). Themes of the book, regarding dreams and parallel realities, are arguably present in the lyrics of Every Day Is Exactly The Same, The Line Begins to Blur, Beside you in Time, and Right Where it Belongs. -- Leviathant 20:42, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Sources?
Are there any sources for:


 * 1) "Trent also plays Counter-Strike: Source competitevely in CAL."
 * 2) Related Link: Misanthropy

I'm not seeing a general dislike for the human race in my listening; a dislike for certain members of the human race, yes. Not all - maybe I need to listen harder. I don't really see a common thread of misanthropy through much of Nine Inch Nails' (grammar?) work, but again this might be me. A source would be nice anyway. GeorgeBills 12:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * These were never sourced, and my own search for the sources revealed no confirmation, so I've removed these claims. Misanthropy was removed outright, and the CAL claim was moved to Trent Reznor with other Reznor-but-not-NIN trivia and was subsequently removed.  -- Rynne 06:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorting this article out
I've been thinking of ways in which this article could be improved, and I've come up with a few ideas, although their large enough to warrant discussion, so here they are.

1. The intro sentence for the page is too short - there needs to be a more informative summary before the (too big) contents box is inserted. Perhaps some of the material from the beginning of the 'members' section, plus some dates.

2. The releases section is very detailed but too big relative to the rest of the information in the article. Suggest a Nine Inch Nails Releases article which has this in, remove it from here, add main article: Nine Inch Nails Releases to the beginning of the 'Albums' section. (see the Doom article's approach)

3. On that note, 'Albums' should be 'Releases', since Broken is not an album (and perhaps Still or something is worthy of note, esp. when the full-detail bit is excised).

4. We've taken some trouble to distinguish remixes and work that is credited to NIN from those which are credited to Reznor, both here and at Trent Reznor, but there's no mention that it isn't clear-cut. To be honest, I think some of the classification may be entirely arbitrary, anyway. I'd suggest a para indicating that work is generally credited to either at the beginning of remixes.

5. Various bits and pieces have been challenged regarding sources/authenticity. I'd suggest chopping a load out, sticking it in talk and leaving it there until some kind of credible source is found.

6. the links section is far too big. There's precicely one official link, two if you count the myspace account. There are a few useful unofficial resources (the catalogues spring to mind) but most are really irrelevant.

Please voice objections/suggestions/alterations and providing there's no resistance I may action these in a week or two.

-- Jon Dowland 12:26, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Regarding the official releases section (which I have since changed to "discography" for uniformity's sake), it would take up a lot less space without all those unnecessary images; in fact, the images really shouldn't be there in the first place (they are essentially eye candy, and thus may not be covered by fair use). If no objections are made in the very near future, I'll remove the images myself. — Prizm 01:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * No objections from me. Regarding the discog, I think that 'and all that could have been' should be listed twice. The picture is for the version which didn't have 'still', yet the description lists still. -- Jon Dowland 09:14, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Done. You may notice that I also removed the "Singles" section; this was because I felt that since all the singles are already listed under the discog (due to the unusual "Halo" format), the singles section was unneeded. It could be argued that removing it makes finding a specific single more difficult, though, so I have no problem if you — or anyone else who feels that the singles section is necessary — decide(s) to revert it. Thank you. — Prizm 01:47, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * If you want to do any fact checking, feel free to send me an email, I run The NIN Hotline, and have amassed embarrasing quantities of trivial (but credible) knowledge about the band, all stored in my head. I do not have time to edit the wiki here, though I think it's an awesome resource.  I barely have time to run my own site.  I think the Amazon listmania links are a little questionable, as they're benefitting someone's Amazon Associates account.  --Leviathant 209.74.55.194 20:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree, the main page is a mess. For one thing, I think a lot of the stuff in the Albums section (particularly The Fragile and With Teeth) is too long and confusing. I'd suggest merging its content into the individual pages for the albums, and then reworking Albums into coherent History section divided by album-era (e.g., the articles on David Bowie, Nirvana, Blur). I like the idea of putting the main discography on a seperate page and just keeping a brief paragraph with a redirect here. The singles section should include important unhaloed songs, so that it's not just a partial copy of a Halo list. There's also just a lot of trival or confusing info on the page that can be cut out or moved to more specific pages. -- Rynne 22:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Update: I made a preliminary discography over at Nine Inch Nails discography. I was trying to stay in line with the standard Wikipedia style of discographies (c.f. The Beatles discography, David Bowie Discography).  I left some more detailed comments in the talk page over there.  Come over, comment, change stuff, etc., etc.


 * Also, minor note regarding the NIN/Reznor remix distinction that Jon Dowland mentions. Killing Joke's "NIN remix" was performed solely by Charlie Clouser, so that's at least one case where there's a clear difference between crediting NIN vs. Reznor. -- Rynne 21:30, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Discography
I've taken Jdowland's suggestion and moved the NIN discography to a seperate page. I did some minor editing to cut out clutter, but all the relevant information which was removed from the main page has been reproduced either on the new discography page or on the individual releases page (e.g., full chart positions). I also seperated the albums and singles chronologies in the article infoboxes as per wikipedia standards. -- Rynne 05:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Additional table with Halo numbers
I hope I am not the only one who liked the "old" discography tabe with covers etc that once was incorporated to the main article. Would anyone object creating a separate page called "List of Halos" with the old layout?


 * Prizm brought up this topic in Sorting this article out. He worried that the images in that context may be considered purely decorative, and hence might not fall under fair-use policy.  The consensus seems to be that if the disc has a picture on its own article, a list of additional pics aren't needed.  See also:
 * Talk:Fair use, where the use of album covers in infobox chonologies was debated.
 * Talk:The White Stripes, where a concensus was made to remove album covers from a discography.
 * -- Rynne 01:26, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

NIN History
As I've said before, I think the current Nine Inch Nails section of the article should be switched to a history of NIN. The existing set-up is just restating information that is already on, or should be on, the pages of each release. We should come up with a more-informative, historical band overview. So, I propose a history-by-album-era approach. Each era should touch on: Additionally, I suggest some more info for specific eras: That's not a complete list, so what does everyone think should be added/removed/changed? Any collaborators are welcome, so we can make this a really good, NPOV contribution. -- Rynne 00:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Approximate description of/changes to NIN's aestethic
 * Public reception of releases from that era
 * Tour overview
 * Other musicians in NIИ — especially long-time associates like Chris Vrenna, Danny Lohner, etc.
 * 1) Pretty Hate Machine era
 * 2) *Recording of PHM (Purest Feeling demos)
 * 3) *Etymology
 * 4) *NIN & industrial scene — Trent tours with Revolting Cocks, Pigface
 * 5) Broken era
 * 6) *Troubles with TVT / start of Nothing Records
 * 7) *Hard Copy story
 * 8) *Broken Movie
 * 9) *Relocate to LA, Tate house
 * 10) The Downward Spiral era
 * 11) *Beginning of Tapeworm
 * 12) *Relocate to NOLA, Nothing Studios
 * 13) *Quake
 * 14) The Fragile era
 * 15) *nin.com
 * 16) *Mention of Trents's drug use/clean up, in relation to lull between AATCHB and WT
 * 17) *Dissolution of Tapeworm
 * 18) With Teeth era
 * 19) *Split with John Malm / end of Nothing Records?
 * 20) *TVT sells NIN back-catalogue / reissues
 * 21) *Politicized NIN: MTV Movie Awards, Hurricane Katrina benefits


 * Sounds good to me, but I'm sure others disagree; probably a lot of work that you're going to have to put in in one edit to replace the album list... Overall the article looks like it needs some more organization, although other than that I think its excellent.  Some sorting of points would be nice too - at the moment it looks like heaps of people have just put in a one paragraph one liner, and it doesn't "flow" very well.  :S  GeorgeBills 11:37, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

NIN and Quake
Is it just me, or is it strange that Quake isn't mentioned anywhere in this article? (Especially since DOOM is mentioned) One of the few games I've played since the days of the Amiga, and bought especially for the NIN soundtrack on the CD. And who can forget the nailgun with the NIN-branded boxes of nails? -G.


 * Quake is mentioned in the Nine Inch Nails discography and in Trent Reznor's article. It's certainly something I'd like to see in the "History" section I’ve proposed above.  In fact, I'll add it into the outline right now.  -- Rynne 18:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * My memory might be wrong here, but I think I cut it out at some point because it's credited to Reznor, rather than NIN, even though Quake has homages to NIN in it. -- Jon Dowland 21:21, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I checked the liner notes on my copy, and the sound effects and music are credited to "Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails." -- Rynne 14:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah that's almost certainly right. I couldn't find any notes in my copy, I think I made my assumption based on Quake's README or something like that. -- Jon Dowland 21:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The never-ending cycle of revision
I've noticed a lot of fixing, unfixing, fixing, unfixing, etc. going on. For instance, a bunch of non-official links have been re-added, despite the explanation in this discussion for having whittled them down. (It's redundant, all of those links are on nin.com/resources) Likewise, the use of a Russian character in the abbreviation, "NIN", has come and gone, but really is not the correct abbreviation, given that an overwhelming majority of NIN fans use English keyboards and don't have a grasp of high ascii nor meddle with international character sets.

I realize this is the never-ending battle of Wikipedia, but people really shouldn't go crazy with the editing without having looked at the history and discussion parts of the entry.

--Leviathant 209.74.55.194 18:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Still
I've removed the references to Still being a major release from the main page. This seems to happen every once in a while, so I'll list my reasons for considering Still to be a minor release (albeit one that's generally well-liked). It's pretty obvious that all the listed major releases (PHM, Broken, TDS, TF, WT) easily meet these criteria. It's equally obvious that other NIN discs that don't meet these criteria (Fixed, Closer to God, etc.) are not listed as major releases. -- Rynne 18:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Major releases should contain a majority of completely-new songs. Still does not contain a majority of completely-new songs: four out of the nine tracks of the disc are "deconstructed" versions of old songs, and many of the remaining tracks are based on music from The Fragile.
 * Major releases should be widely-available. Still is not widely-available, and by this I mean:
 * It has never been sold on its own in any commerical record stores. The only time it has ever been possible to buy Still from a retail record store was as part of the limited release of And All That Could Have Been, in which it was a bonus disc.
 * It has never had its own non-domestic release as a seperate entity. It can be argued that the single-disc Still is available to anyone in the world who goes to nin.com and orders one, but those are essentially American discs being exported from an American store.
 * I obtained Still as part of the deluxe edition of And All That Could Have Been. When purchased separately, does Still even have a "halo" number?  --buck 23:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * From what others have told me, Still is labeled as "Halo 17 cd 2" when purchased seperately, even though the disc itself is not the same as the second disc of the 2CD set—the discs have different artwork. -- Rynne 14:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Tour History?
Would it be worth noting some history on NIN tours, or would that be better as a seperate article? I think if we provided some information on various tours; i.e. titles (Hate '90, Fragility etc), countries/continents/regions visited, songs previewed on these tours, opening acts and other tidbits of information, such as the Woodstock appearance, the cancellation of the London shows during Fragility and the trouble with Jerome Dillon during the second NA portion of the tour. Anybody agree with me here or have any ideas? (A-Thousand-Lies 16:29, 12 December 2005 (UTC))


 * I'd like to see a "tour" section added. NIN have given some notable performances--stealing the show at Lollapalooza '91 launched them into the mainstream, plus the mud-soaked appearance at Woodstock '94 and the co-headlining tour with David Bowie.  The Self-Destruct tour also introduced the world to Marilyn Manson.  I think there's lots of relevant history involved with the tours (especially with the release of Closure and And All That Could Have Been. I'm also curious to know about the cancelled London dates--what was that about? --buck 23:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not particularly sure of all the details - I wasn't a NIN fan back then. I've heard about it on Burning Souls Forum, but I'm sure someone like Leviathant could fill us in. But all I know is that there was a week or so of shows that were set to be performed in London and/or surrounding cities and England, but for some reason which at the time was unknown, they were cancelled. I believe the Astoria shows in late March this year was an attempt to "make up" for those lost dates back then. Due to recent revelations from Trent in the past year, I'm guessing it was to do with his addiction and the Heroin overdose. A-Thousand-Lies 11:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * NIN was to headline the Lost Weekend festival-style show in 2000 or 2001, but Jerome Dillon got sick. I believe the phrase "shitting water" was used to describe his condition.  The fans were rather upset -- they paid for a festival priced ticket to see NIN, and then NIN bowed out at the last minute, despite people spotting folks like Robin Finck romaing amongst the crowd earlier in the day.  Yes, the string of UK shows were more than likely Trent's attempt to make up for that cancellation.  Far better than Radiohead did when they cancelled the Washington D.C. shows a few years back, that's for sure.


 * On the topic of a tour section, it'd probably be better served as a separate article, or separate articles on each of the various tours. A goldmine of tour information is available on The NIN Historian's page on The NIN Hotline.  -- Leviathant, 209.74.55.194 14:52, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The Nine Inch Nails artilce is already over Wikipedia's suggested article length. If you want to make a section about tours, it—or some other part of the current article—should be moved to a new page so that this article doesn't become too long. -- Rynne 14:39, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Removal of links
I have removed the multiple copies of links within the videos table as they are all within reading distance of each other and link to the same articles, and there are a lot of links in the text anyway. Wikipedia recommends that links shouldn't be done like this:
 * On the other hand, do not make too many links. An article may be considered overlinked if any of the following is true: a link is repeated in the same article (although there may be case for duplicating an important link that is distant from the previous occurrence); --localzuk 09:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

3 extra external links
I removed the links that have appearred which are:

As I think they are commercial services - with no real reason to be linked to. They are templates though which leads me to believe that they may be used elsewhere so my removal may have been in error.

Can anyone state why they should be there? (We already have a very large external links section).-localzuk 14:50, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Commerical? All three of them offer free services. Last.fm is the only one that provides ADDITIONAL services for a little money. Although, I think that these links do add to the article; they provide information about NIN's records and songs.[[Image:Weather rain.png]] Soothing R  16:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. They only provide information that is available in the article already or through the already linked articles. The discogs site also advertises albums for sale. The Music Brainz one seems to be the only possibly, in the loosest sense, useful link - but the info is not really of any use as it is, as I said before, already covered.-localzuk 18:26, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I also disagree. The information at Discogs.com can be found (and probably -was- found) at The NIN Collector, where it is better documented.  Last.fm is somewhat interesting, but trivial at best.  Musicbrainz.org isn't even loading for me.  I will also reiterate that the most useful links in the links section are duplicates of those found at nin.com/resources, which is already linked, and are something of a waste of space, IMNSHO. --Leviathant 209.74.55.194 20:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Underworld Evolution trailer usage of The Hand That Feeds
I would do this myself, but I am not that good at editing. So, to let everyone know, the trailer for Underworld Evolution has a (possible) remix of the song The Hand That Feeds. It could be the original though, I only saw it once so I am not sure. Anyway, go ahead and add that if you want. Godlord2 06:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Genre
When I think of Industrial Metal, I think of metal (hard, hard, hard rock) with industrial (synth, distortion guitars, broken sounds). When I think of Nine Inch Nails, on the other hand, I think of Industrial + Rock. Anyone else with me on the change from Industrial metal to Industrial rock? --Tony (Talk), Vandalism Ninja 22:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Closer
I was just wondering if someone can fix up and correct the Closer (song) article. Especially the reference to Limp Bizket's song "hotdog" being a "nod" to NIN.
 * I've redirected it to Closer to God. - Rynne 14:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

question
How do you make the "N" backwards on the main page. (Hypernick1980 06:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)) И --Ton ySt 23:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Just copy-and-paste this:

Sopranos
The new Sopranos trailer uses a NIN song I believe. Don't know the name of the song off the top of my head. Maybe add it to trivia? Or start a new section called "3rd Party Usage" or "As Heard In.." or something similar? 63.235.11.64 06:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Such information has be added into the triva section before and was subsequently removed (in fact, there are similar mentions right now that should be taken out of the article). A list like that would be too long and wouldn't have enough relevance for inclusion.  NIN has no control over how its songs are licensed, so such a list doesn't provide any useful information about NIN as an entity—aside from the fact that many people can pay to put their songs in shows/trailers/whatever. - Rynne 13:38, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The song you were referring to is Nine Inch Nails-"The Mark Has Been Made" —Preceding unsigned comment added by MR.5ELFDESTRUCT (talk • contribs)


 * I just added some more of this back in without reading this first - sorry. However I would argue for the inclusion of that stuff as long as the usage is prominent. A lot of people try to figure out what song it was they just heard in a show or clip, and this is the trivia section after all. I disagree with the earlier statement that "NIN has no control over how its songs are licensed", do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that TR is very selective about how he allows his music to be used and that is why we do not hear it for example in a VW commercial. thanks Nowimnthing 16:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Closure legal problems
''A DVD version of Closure is forthcoming, pending the resolution of some legal troubles. (Rumor speculates this has to do with the possible inclusion of the Broken Movie, although this cannot be officially verified).'' The "legal troubles" refered to were always assumed to be the lawsuits with trent's ex-manager john malm. Besides which, wikipedia is for facts, not rumours that no-one has heard of. I'm editing out the rumour comment, if you want to re-add it, provide a source for the rumour. There's an obscene lack of sources in this article :( --User:203.221.28.203
 * The legal issues were related to John Malm & Nothing Records. Right now, the DVD is in the hands of Universal/Interscope.  What they are doing with it is anyone's guess. They (Universal) were going to repackage it, and change the menus around, but after the guy who was doing that work blogged about it, NIN & management put a stop to that.  It's done, it's been done for years.  --Leviathant 209.74.55.194 15:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Fan Sites
There's waaaay too many fan sites, and I'm tempted to delete the ones that are in languages other than English - the sites can be put on their own wiki's NIN article. Any objections? --TonySt 22:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia should not be a promotional tool, nor a links-page. It is for information.  Cull away!  --Leviathant209.74.55.194 19:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Band members
Okay, what the heck is going on with the revert-war over the band member box? and seem to be hell-bent on making Trent Reznor the only listed band member—in fact, it appears that BlueFrail violated WP:3RR in doing so (20:16, 3 Apr, 17:46, 4 Apr, 19:12, 4 Apr). We need to have something done about this. - Rynne 15:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Trent Reznor is the only band member, but tours with a band. Perhaps this distinction would simplify things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.250.31.205 (talk • contribs)


 * That's already well known and stated in the article. IMO, only Trent should be listed, but I don't want to get bogged down in an edit war. Can anyone explain why current touring band members should be included in that list, when they're only temporary and change each tour? Besides, there's already a fairly comprehensive 'Members' section listing them all. Imroy 20:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the most basic answer is that often, if not always, the touring members aren't simply hired-hands. This particular group is too new for that to have happened yet—though Jeordie White was around during some of the recording of With Teeth—but a lot of the previous sidemen would stay and record with the band when NIN wasn't on tour.  Chris Vrenna, for example, assisted Reznor in the studio for the first few albums; Danny Lohner and Charlie Clouser have co-writing credits on The Fragile; Jerome Dillon has appeared on The Fragile, Still, and With Teeth.  Besides which, the other musicans are treated as band members: they always appear in offical promotional photos of NIN, the current lot have answered questions in "Special Band Editions" of nin.com/access, etc.  While they're obviously not integral to NIN like Reznor is, they're certainly important enough to be listed as members, particularly when they're currently touring as Nine Inch Nails. - Rynne 20:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Rynne makes good points. I don't have much to add beyond agreeing with him.  It's worth mentioning that Broken was inspired by the live band... I think they play an important part in the direction of the music, and deserve credit where it is due.  NIN Live is an entirely different entity from the studio releases, and to pretend it's not, to erase the people who bring the studio to the stage, would be short-sighted. --Leviathant 209.74.55.194 19:42, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Besides the point that the picture used for this article features all of the five current live band members, there is no real reason to add them. I believe every album has a note in the credits that says something along the lines of, "Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor."  However, I do know that Broken has another note that states that the album was influenced by "NIN Live" and then lists the members of the live band at the time.  Is there any way to have seperate sections in the box for "Official Members" (Trent Reznor), "Current Live Band" and "Past Live Band"?  I'm just afraid that it'll end up with people wanting to list everyone who has performed on any track (which would include Tommy Lee, who did percussion for Big Man with a Gun) and everyone who has helped produce a track (which would make for a giant list including Flood and Dr. Dre).  Most of this information is found inside the actual article's text.  Barring those aforementioned suggestions, I'd say just make Mr. Reznor the only official member and leave it up to the article to mention the rest.   Mac   OS X  05:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the "Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor" note only occurs on Pretty Hate Machine from 1989. If you're going by liner notes there are more recent examples otherwise.   Further Down the Spiral credits "The Art of Self Destruction, Part One" as "recreated by Nine Inch Nails (Chris Vrenna, Robin Finck, Danny Lohner, Charlie Clouser, Trent Reznor)".  "The Prefect Drug" on WITT is "written by Nine Inch Nails" with publishing credits to Reznor, Lohner, Clouser, and Vrenna.  Again, these guys are credited on albums as non-trivial members of Nine Inch Nails.
 * You're totally right that one-time guest musicians and studio producers shouldn't be listed as band members. But the guys in the long-term touring band are obviously neither of those.- Rynne 13:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Have you considered trying to find a contact e-mail address for Mr. Reznor? Even if it was just a 'fan address', it could be worth a try to get his opinion on this. Heh, who knows, maybe he'd even edit it for us... Maybe he's already been part of the editing war!

Q2
Can anyone provide evidence of the remixed "Perfect Drug" released with Quake 2? I have Quake 2 and all of expansions and can find no song resembling "Perfect Drug."
 * No evidence available because it's not true. Is that in the article?  If so, I'll get rid of it. - Rynne 22:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, one of the songs in the Quake2 Soundtrack used a sample from the Perfect Drug, played backwards. It wasn't really authorized, but it's not something anyone made a stink about either.  I do not think it bears noting in this wiki entry. -- Leviathant 72.78.235.126 04:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

With Teeth Sales
I haven't been able to find anything that says With Teeth has been certified Platinum, it just says Gold on the RIAA website. I imagine the album probably has sold close to if not over a million by now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.0.74 (talk • contribs)
 * :-) --TonySt 21:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph
I believe that the opening paragraph should be just that, a single opening paragraph that succintly sums up the article. Off the top of my head I'm not aware of another article that opens with two seperate paragraphs. I naively tried to merge the two opening paragraphs into one. If you don't like it, please consider reworking it so it remains only one paragraph and not two. Naufana 03:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Categorization
Should NIN be put in the category "One Member Bands"?
 * Should you perhaps sign your posts? The last time I saw the band play, there were five people in it. -- Leviathant 216.158.33.200 21:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The five people you saw are listed under Nine Inch Nails: Live. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 02:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * See the talk archives for my previous arguments that NIN does indeed consist of more that just Reznor. -- Rynne 18:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

New album
On June 24th, 2006 near the end of performing at the Molson Amphitheatre [17] in Toronto, Trent Reznor confirmed there would be a new album released "shortly".

I was at a Nine Inch Nails concert in Irvine, CA on July 7th 2006, and in the middle of the performance before he brought out Peter Murphey of Bauhaus, Trent Reznor said that he will be working on a new album after the concert on July 8th. Since he simply said working, it means a new album will not be released so "shortly" since there's a lot of work for Trent and the others to do from now and the release date.

75.4.19.73 12:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I suspect we'll see another live DVD before the new album comes out. --Leviathant 72.78.235.126 04:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah i also heard about an upcoming DVD release of the With_Teeth tour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.228.129.12 (talk • contribs)

Failed GA nomination
While very, very well-written, this article is not quite there for GA. Here's why:


 * Too many short, stubby sections. The first three sections should be combined somehow, and the quotes taken out of them, as those big purple quotation marks are kinda distracting.


 * In relation to the above, there are too many one sentence or very small paragraphs that should be merged together.


 * In the Style section, make sure it's clear who "he" is.


 * The list in Discography is pretty much saying the exact same thing the first sentence said. Scrap it.


 * Too many wikilinks, especailly in Discography.


 * Convert all lists to prose, or incorporate their information into other sections, or scrap them. Include Music videos into the discography section. For the Grammy Awards list, just say "The band was nominated for 9 Grammys, winning only two for (insert name here) and (insert name here)." For the Members list, split it into a subarticle.


 * Trivia has to go. Do the same things I suggested for the lists (of course they're already prose). For example, the video game entry could be placed under "Reznor's other works".


 * Images:
 * All but one of the images need fair use rationales.
 * For the infobox image, could you list the band members' names, and from what year they were from?
 * Odd how the only constant member of the band doesn't even have his own image in the article.

Good luck. --Dark Kubrick 14:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As for the infobox image, that is from the 2006 tour; all the members there are the current members. Do you mean something on the order of a "from left to right" deal? --King Bee 21:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Something like, "Left to right: Jeordie White (2005), Josh Freese (2005), Trent Reznor (1988)"... etc? HorseloverFat 11:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Alright, I've taken care of most concerns. Someone still needs to incorporate the past members list into another article and clear the image rights. BotleySmith 04:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We're well on the way to FA. Somebody needs to clean up the sources into a proper reference list format and maybe combine some sections into the top of the article, and it should be on the front page of en.wikipedia.org in no time. BotleySmith 21:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * References are looking a lot better, but a few more are needed (particularly for the discography section, which also could use a rewrite). Perhaps a bit more introduction and we're done. BotleySmith 19:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Angel
I can't seem to verify this Angel [demo] by NIN (supposedly). It's on quite a few sites and through p2p networks, but is it really a NIN song or just a fake of something else? --Discharger12 20:03, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Many places, especially lyrics site have listed this song by Vinyl Sun under Nine Inch Nails, probally due to the p2p instances. This is not a NIN song, weather he, Trent Reznor, covered it or not is another debate. --Hoovie


 * Nah, that's not really debatable. NIN has nothing to do with that song, it was mislabeled on Napster or Kazaa at some point, along with some live performance of the Legend of Zelda, and 'Digital,' which was actually a song called Push Eject by Boom Boom Satellites. --Leviathant 216.158.33.200 14:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Angel is, I believe, a track by Option 30, Trent Reznor's old band. Related to Trent Reznor, but not Nine Inch Nails. --User:Kratos Aurion

cat:nin & guests
I added a cat:nin to Reznor's Edge, but I'm hesitant to add it to the template. What does anyone else think? also I was wondering if a place should be made for guest musicans (such as Adrian Belew). Finally, this article is absolutely huge, with the size of it and its accompanying satellite articles it's almost ready for its own portal (not really a serious recommendation). Na uf an a : talk  02:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Reznor's Edge is a prank with nothing to do with the band. Frankly, I don't see any more reason for it to be there than the "Meathead" article, which was deleted for being non-notable and unverifiable. The main article size will become a little more managable once the "past tour lineups" section is split into its own page. I know there used to be a "Nine Inch Nails: Live" article that got deleted, but it's probably the best place to catalogue NIN's many onstage guest appearances (i.e. Marco & Adam Ant and David Bowie 1995, Marilyn Manson in 2000, Saul Williams in 2005, Peter Murphy in 2006, Eric and Dave and Gibby and Ice-T in 1991, Richard Patrick in 1996 etc.) BotleySmith 13:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as guest musicians go, all the ones on the albums (Adrian Belew, etc.) are linked off of the respective recording pages. I think that's probably where they should stay—Reznor’s had so many guests come in for very small amounts of work (e.g., Dr. Dre mixing one song) that putting them on the template would create a huge section of links that are only tangentially related to NIN. -- Rynne 21:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)