Talk:Nine Inch Nails/Archive 4

Alternative metal
Do you think NIN are alt. metal or is this a stupid question? Thundermaster Thundermaster's Talk 12:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. It used to be in the genre list. It definitely should be included, not the least because NIN is considered metal to an extent (hence why this article is under the scope of WikiProject Metal). WesleyDodds (talk) 11:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I dunno, I don't really see what's so metally about NIN's music, myself. Though I suppose if a few good sources back it up then my own opinion doesn't really matter. Drewcifer (talk) 12:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's better than saying their alternative rock! Seriously, they are NOT, they are far from mainstream Titan50 (talk) 11:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * NIN not mainstream? Odd notion. Zazaban (talk) 16:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * NIN are quite mainstream, but they are like heavy alt. rock aka alternative metal. Thundermaster TRUC 14:08, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

We could debate this ad naseum, but since this is Wikipedia, the important thing is a source. If we find a reliable source that says they're alt metal then fine. Same thing goes for alternative rock, for that matter. What we really should be discussing is which source to go by, since inevitably the souces will disagree slightly with one another. Drewcifer (talk) 23:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Please stop switching the genres, NIN is clearly Industrial Rock over Alternative Rock. In fact, the opening line says Industrial rock, yet Alternative Rock is on top.  tribestros (talk) 15:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

One more vote here for Industrial Rock. Bmc152006 (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think NIN would be labeled as electronic, experimental, or industrial. It really doesn't fit with the metal genre.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.32.93 (talk) 22:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

This isn't an issue of you me or anyone else thinks NIN sounds like, ultimately we need to leave it up to a reliable source. And that said, this source should ultimately be discussing NIN in as broad of a context as possible, since we could quote an article about Ghosts and say NIN is dark ambient, but then we could quote an article about With Teeth and say NIN is Alt. Metal. Or Year Zero and say it's electronic music. We need to find a source or sources that describes the music in general, then attribute the band's genre to that source, rather than voting here for or the other. Drewcifer (talk) 22:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a suggestion - use AMG for genres if there's a dispute. I've seen similar discussions on talk pages for other artists, and it's a good neutral source for that kind of info. dil (talk) 01:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * AMG lists Industrial as first under "Styles." I am changing the order of the genres to reflect this. -65.12.134.148 (talk) 03:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

If these guys are industrial rock and alternative metal (which I believe they're both), then they're industrial metal too. Not pure industrial music, though. Angry Shoplifter (talk) 07:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's better to just keep it simple and somewhat vague. The band's genres could be debated ad naseum, so let's just add the ones that have always and will always stick rather then debating about subgenres and the like. Drewcifer (talk) 11:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is fucking dumb, guys. There's a quote by Allmusic in the freaking article labeling NIN as Industrial!  I could find more, but it's common sense!  Industrial Rock NEEDS to go first.  End of discussion.  If NIN isn't Industrial, then hell, Radiohead's metal.  And Ministry?  They're Alternative Rock.  Pink Floyd?  Noise rock. Tribestros (talk) 14:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails IS INDUSTRIAL ROCK! They are known by everyone as Industrial Rock, and Trent Reznor says NIN's Industrial! The act is one of the pioneers of Industrial Rock, and calling it something as absurd as Alternative Rock is just a rant by someone who doesn't know about music. They are NOT MAINSTREAM, for one simple reason: they distribute music by their OWN label, not a mainstream label. They used to be part of Universal, but are unsigned now over a feud (read the article). Nine Inch Nails were NEVER labelled 'alternative'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.67.149 (talk) 10:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

"Allmusic's Steve Huey states that "Nine Inch Nails were the most popular industrial group ever and were largely responsible for bringing the music to a mass audience."[1] Reznor has never referred to his own work as industrial music, but admits to borrowing techniques from such early industrial bands as Throbbing Gristle and Test Dept." - Some pure evidence, from the article itself.[13] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.67.149 (talk) 10:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

from the Allmusic article for alternative metal "the grindingly dissonant Tool, the heavily production-reliant White Zombie, and the popular breakthrough of Nine Inch Nails. These bands would become the most influential forces in shaping the sound and style of alternative metal for the rest of the '90s" it also says that Nine Inch Nails is a type of industrial alternative metal this should prove that Nine Inch Nails is alternative metal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poopmoss (talk • contribs) 18:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that Nine Inch Nails should be put in a genre anyway. I mean, from Pretty Hate Machine to The Slip, Trent Reznor evolved a lot. It's really hard to fit all these different orientations (more metal on Broken, more electronic on Fragile....) in one genre. Yet I guess that Industrial or Alternative Industrial would work. Nine Inch Nails is not only metal, some albums like Ghosts I-IV or [With_Teeth] are clearly not metal. Silentyn (talk) 00:48, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This band is NOT industrial metal.... real industrial metal is bands like Fear Factory and Rammstein. The music this bands creates is MUCH too soft to be even considered industrial metal. Yes, i agree that they are industrial rock. Also this band IS mainstream, they have over TEN MILLION sales.... Nonmainstream underground bands from Testament, to Morbid Angel, Obituary, etc have well under ten million, at best a couple million or less. This band is a well known mainstream band, this is a fact not opinion —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.148.88.135 (talk) 01:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

On the allthemusic.com page for Nine Inch Nails, under "genres" alternative metal is listed. Also, several Nine Inch Nails tracks can be described as alt. metal so i don't see why it can't be included. LuNcHboXXXnin (talk) 10:09, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

They're industrial not anything else --TJMcDJ (talk) 20:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Ghosts I-IV
I have rewritten the section so that it is almost completely cited. The first paragraph needs to be cited, and the whole thing needs a copyedit. May I remind everyone that this is an FA quality article, and we need to keep on top of these recent developments so as to not upset this article's status. -- Reaper  X  04:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure if it's a valid enough for citing on an FA but the nin.com posts referenced in the first paragraph are archived here and here. Also the Billboard article already referenced could be used for the second half of the first paragraph. If you want an additional source you could use The LA Times —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcbns (talk • contribs) 21:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Seeing as how it's definitely something different (for the band and mainstream music as a whole), I think it may be worth noting that NIN apparently made an official release of Ghosts I on multiple torrent sites, including TPB, under Creative Commons. Here is one news source referencing the release.  I'm not sure if Reznor has said anything to verify it yet, though.  If it can be verified enough, though, then it should noted in some fashion probably.  Dfsghjkgfhdg (talk) 02:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Influence
Dunno if it's just me but shouldn't something be included in this section in reference to the way that he has changed the music industry, alongside Radiohead. Not only was With_Teeth the first major studio release to be streamed online in it's entirety before release at Reznor's behest, but there was the whole leaking tracks from Year Zero and the ARG (alternative marketing), the whole Niggy Tardust experiment and now the current Ghosts release, setting a new precedent for online label less releases and his association with torrenting, both his own material and his admittance to using Oink.

Personally I believe he's done more than anyone to begin breaking the power of labels in the modern day, Radiohead's stunt was just that, a stunt, it was for marketing purposes only and they openly admit to it. Whereas the Ghosts release was always intended for the internet and was intended as a way of proving that artists can survive without labels, which it seems be be doing very well indeed. Ajp100688 (talk) 01:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems like it would be an appropriate addition, but with sources of course. But we should be careful of assuming too much has come from this single release: it's only been out a few days, so to say it "changed the music industry" would be really hasty.  Nothing at all has changed because of Reznor's experiments, aside from a few albums which he has been directly involved with. Drewcifer (talk) 01:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

But would this be influence? At least not yet. We should wait a few months to see if any more bands follow NIN's online trend before posting it as an influence.

Gary Talapas
would anyone happen to have anymore information about Gary Talpas to add to the page. He is the designer of a few nine inch nails album covers and the nin logo. thanks
 * I tried to add some sources for you. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 19:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Year Zero Part 2
With the release of Ghosts, many NIN fans assume the Year Zero Pt. 2 is dead. According to Trent Reznor's user profile on Echoing the Sound, teitan, the project is still in the works, and includes "many other elements". The teitan user is in fact Trent Reznor, check with the Echoing the Sound mods if infact you do not believe me. Until then, please do not delete what I write surrounding this. tribestros (talk) 14:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your edits ( edit: if you are IP 70.245.71.28 ) had conjecture regarding "rumors surrounding" the project was dead. I didn't assume that, others may not have as well. It is a broad unsourced statement. I question article integration at this point, because there is nothing material to write about. The second album is still forthcoming. If anything maybe a sourced line in the Ghosts section stating, the Ghosts album was independent of Pt. 2, and did not replace it. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 19:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I was using the Nine Inch Nails official fansite Echoing the Sound as my source for fans assuming the project was dead. The general concensus there was that Trent Reznor was dropping the project. tribestros (talk) 14:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not withstanding, perhaps we should wait to include when we have more information than "He's doing it." Maybe others can comment so we can get a consensus. Thanks! AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 19:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. tribestros (talk) 15:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Minor clarification -- Echoing the Sound is an unofficial message board. Thx. Leviathant (talk) 15:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Noted. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 15:46, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails: Band?
Nine Inch Nails is most certainly not a band, and I think it is decieving to label NIN as a band on the Wikipedia page. On nearly almost every album booklet except The Fragile, the booklet says NIN is Trent Reznor. I'm not really quite sure what else to put there, but I do believe 'band' should be changed, NIN fits none of the categories. tribestros (talk) 15:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know if it is "deceiving", as you put it, since NIN does tour with a band. Though I do agree a distinction should be made. Take a look at the archived discussion page and see if any consensus appears there, I'm willing to bet this issue has come up before. I also think there may be some other band talk pages that have addressed similar issues. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 20:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As I read the archives, there was one argument over the box. That was it.  I'll take a break and try to figure out how to phrase the beginning. Tribestros (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe calling it an act instead of a band in the opening paragraph solves the issue. Any arguments against it ? (Fbergo (talk) 23:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC))
 * No, that's a great idea. I'll change it now.  Tribestros (talk) 14:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

For the sake of clarity and inclusion the lead should acknowledge, that Trent Reznor is a constant, though Nine Inche Nails is commonly referred to as a "band." Nine Inch Nails can still be referred to as an "act", but needs further clarification. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 15:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * In nearly every booklet, the headline states 'NIN is Trent Reznor'. The Fragile has a few other musicians, but the only reason NIN is ever considered a band is because it seems easier.  Tribestros (talk) 21:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree that the 'only reason' anyone would consider it a band is because 'it's easier.' It more has to do with the fact that a) Live performances are done with a band, and b) There are countless NIN music videos that feature live performances or depict a band. I can name NIN music videos from every album up to Year Zero that feature a band (most recently survivalism comes to mind). This is not to say I personally considered NIN a "band", I don't. But proper weight should be given to specifically delineate that there is a band in multiple iterations that has appeared in music videos, and performed live. Despite our obvious interest in NIN, the casual non-discerning fan who may only be familiar with closer, is none the wiser. As I said before, it should be further clarified. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find that Pretty Hate Machine is the only release that claims "Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor." Besides, it's generally understood that "band" in the context of music means the identity of a musical entity, that is, the  identity under which records are released, tours are booked, etc.  Thus, it's  appropriate to call Nine Inch Nails a band; particularly since Reznor has made the distinction between NIN's music and Trent Reznor's music on the Lost Highway soundtrack. - rynne (talk) 20:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to sound smug, but as I look at Year Zero, The Downward Spiral, and Broken's booklet, this line jumps out at me: "Written and Performed by Trent Reznor." Tribestros (talk) 00:48, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Which, unless I'm reading wrong, isn't "Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor." Semantics aside, I don't think there's any reason to claim that NIN is equivalent to Trent Reznor or that this article should use some non-standard nomenclature to talk about NIN. -- rynne (talk) 19:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Trent himself regularly (in interviews, onstage, etc.) refers to "my band, Nine Inch Nails" as a separate entity from himself. Add to this the synonymous way the article's prose interchanges "NIN", "Nine Inch Nails" and "the band" without problem and we have a longstanding consensus that NIN is a band. BotleySmith (talk) 20:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I need to find the article, but Trent has claimed that the only reason he refers to NIN as his band because he doesn't want to be counted as a solo project, because he's not a big fan of solo artists. He says "technically, NIN is a solo act.  But I consider us a band," Where, oh where is the article... tribestros (talk) 23:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Front page of nin.com today: "the band has been reformed." -- rynne (talk) 20:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Discipline
My local rock station (102.1 Milwaukee's Alternative) is going to be playing it tonight. They said that yesterday night Trent's "manager" (does he even have one?) called them and told them that it would be arriving, and today they recieved the single via e-mail. Also, Trent wishes to make the single free--and thus will release it for free download tomorrow afternoon. I don't know if this helps or not, but I thought it'd be an interesting bit of info.


 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.233.112 (talk) 23:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, NIN's manager is Jim Guerinot and this information is confirmed on the front page of this evening's nin.com update! BotleySmith (talk) 01:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Featured Topic
So I have noticed alot of work going into some of the later Nine Inch Nails stuff lately, and it led me to think: what if we made Nine Inch Nails a featured topic? Let's review what we have:

So the only criteria we haven't met are 3(a) which will be met if Year Zero passes it's FAC, and possibly 1(d). Now as for that, do you think that we could have a "gap" because we have included NIN's two latest major studio releases, but nothing before it? In that case, I think With Teeth and The Downward Spiral are in good shape to tackle, and Pretty Hate Machine would need major work poured into it. Thoughts? -- Reaper  X  21:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Featured topic is definitely the eventual goal, but we have to get everything pre-Year Zero into shape first. Like the criteria says, we can't just cherry pick the good ones. Drewcifer (talk) 22:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The "nom box" has been updated accordingly then. I'll see if I can contribute, but no promises with my academic load thus far. -- Reaper  X  01:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, some more help is always appreciated. Drewcifer (talk) 05:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I made some suggestions for improvements on the Pretty Hate Machine and The Fragile talk pages. I'd recommend taking the time to take these article by article, working collectively to bring them up to Good article status, and then working on either the Trent or Year Zero article enough to bring at least one of them up to FA status. It might take quite a long time but I definitely think it's possible. --Ubiq (talk) 18:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yea, I knew it would take some time, but I just thought it was a neat idea to bring to everyones attention, especially seeing as there is only 14 Arts FT's. -- Reaper  X  21:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New album
New album, The Slip http://www.nin.com/ http://theslip.nin.com/ Another completely unannounced album...
 * Those who wish to can begin contributing to the individual album article at The Slip (album). AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 12:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Genres
I think that the genres listed need to be edited a bit. Ambient industrial should be listed since that is pretty much what the whole Ghosts I-IV album is. Whiffle Ball Tony (talk) 19:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ghosts has so far been the only album to be as such, so it makes more sense to put that as the genre in the Ghosts article, but it wouldn't make sense to put it here, since that would imply the entirety of NIN's body of work fell under the ambient industrial umbrella, which it obviously doesn't. Drewcifer (talk) 11:31, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I was even wondering if "experimental" or "independent rock" merited inclusion. The latter of course, is only if "independent rock" can still be considered separate from the genre of "indie rock". One's an entrepreneurial approach to self-sustained creativity, the other's is a synonym for "Hey, remember Pavement? Yeah, we sound like that." 24.3.14.157 (talk) 14:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Edit War concerning Broken EP
I believe there may be an edit war starting over whether Broken (Nine Inch Nails EP) is considered a studio album or major studio release or something. It involves the constant changing of every studio album article thereafter having it's first line changed to indicate it is the nth studio album. Please discuss this to decide whether Broken is an EP or studio album, and prevent this silly war from blowing up. -- Reaper  X  06:00, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * An EP is still a studio album, is still an album, is still a release, etc, etc. The only thing it is not is an LP. Since none of the articles refer to the "nth LP" all of my edits have been correct and verifiable. Furthermore, in the particular case of Broken, it is a collection of eight original recordings, totalling over 31 minutes; it is a notable/major/significant/important release/work/cd/album by Nine Inch Nails. Those insisting Broken is not referenced in the offending lines of the album articles would only be correct if the sentences described how many LPs NIN had made. None of the articles prior to or after my editing referenced LPs. It is of far more use to those perusing NIN album articles to be made aware of Broken and thus how many major/significant/studio albums NIN has created to that point, than to try and be "technically" right about how many LPs NIN has made. Also take note of how I did not need to edit the Fragile album article as it was already correct and made the important reference to Broken. Deusfaux (talk) 06:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Summary - it is better to note how many major albums NIN has created than to merely note how many LPs NIN has created - especially since Broken is more substantial than most EPs by other artists. Even if the latter scenario is more ideal, then those reverting my edits are still in the wrong, and need to edit the lines to describe LPs only. Deusfaux (talk) 06:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the best/easiest/least debatable solution would be to swap "album" with "major studio release". ie.  "The Slip (also known as Halo 27) is the eighth major studio release by American industrial rock act Nine Inch Nails". --Drewcifer (talk) 15:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I like Drewcifer's idea. Concensus? -- Reaper  X  20:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * At least a couple of the edits I had made in the past said something to that effect or those exact words. Like I said, I'm willing to accept "nth LP" - but since none have ever talked about LPs anyways, Broken might as well be referenced in some way, and you can use the word "release" or whatever you want to get that across. Deusfaux (talk) 03:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a semantic issue. I reverted a couple of changes DeusFaux made, as there was no discussion and some of them lacked edit summaries. I wish he had come to the talk page(s) before making the change. An EP by definition is not a full album - it's not as long, features less tracks, not marketed as a full album, et. al. However, I acknowledge the "extraordinary circumstance" surrounding Broken. I agree that "album" could be changed to "major studio release" to address this issue. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No it's not a semantic issue. For example, YOU are here found using the phrase "full album" to distinguish an LP from an EP. Yet none of the articles said "(nth) full album"! Nor "(nth) LP"! Every single edit I made was 100% correct/truthful/verifiable. Deusfaux (talk) 04:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

EPs aren't considered studio albums. I also don't think Reznor ever called it an album. I've heard him call it an EP, definitely. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm with you. It's an EP (a very successful EP, but an EP nonetheless.). Xe7al (talk) 15:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Edit war redux
This EP is once again the subject of edit warring. The short discography list here in this article is titled Studio albums and Broken (EP) is being added and removed from the list. A few days ago, I participated in the edit war by removing it from the list, as my understanding is that "album" and "LP" are interchangeable terms, and an "EP" is something shorter and different. This was not a judgment on my part that this EP didn't deserve mention in the section, just that it didn't match up with the header that was on the list at that time.

To try to bring an end to this edit warring, I attempted a compromise this morning. I retitled the discography list within this article from Studio albums to Studio releases and readded Broken to the list. This was to get rid of the "does an EP belong in an album list?" question, and brings this main article into agreement with Nine Inch Nails discography, both in the name of the list and the contents of the list. When this change was reverted my changing the name of the list to match the section in the discography article was described as "not viable" with no further explanation.

Yes, I am aware that Broken (EP) is an EP and not an album or LP; this is one of the reasons why I changed the list's header to be more inclusive. Broken is unique in the canon of NIN recordings; it is the only time that new, original studio recordings (not remixes) were presented in the shorter format. As such, it is listed in with the studio albums over in the discography article.

So now, I am going to put this article and the discography article back in harmony, and anyone that changes this needs to explain themselves here, as I have just done. I really am curious why Studio releases lacks viability. Thanks -- Foetusized (talk) 18:07, 28 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Broken is an exceptional EP, but an EP nonetheless. It would be incongruous to include an EP in the main list of studio albums. I recall many bands releasing extended plays and in some cases full albums of out-takes and remixes, but they never make the studio album lists. To Rename the section 'Studio releases' would be to compromise the article. Apologies for reverting without talking first and thanks for reopening the discussion. Snoop God (talk) 22:45, 28 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Why would that "compromise the article" at all? That's an assertion of opinion with nothing to back it up. Personally, I think the change to Studio Releases is a very good compromise. &mdash;  The Hand That Feeds You :Bite 00:48, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, if NIN were to release another LP it would be the eighth. Also, why differentiate between Broken and Fixed? Both EPs released in 1992, conceptually. Snoop God (talk) 04:17, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The Broken EP was first, and was the original release of the eight songs it contains; it is not a collection of "out-takes and remixes" but of material recorded specifically for this EP. The Fixed EP followed, and is made up of remixes of the Broken material.  It's the same reason we differentiate between The Downward Spiral (listed in this article) and Further Down the Spiral (which is not).  Take a look at Nine Inch Nails discography to see how recordings are grouped together there, with separate sections for studio releases and remix releases -- Foetusized (talk) 15:06, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

RIAA certification
The main page and the discography page are inconsistent when it comes to the certification for With Teeth. The discography page lists the album has having achieved 2x platinum while the main page lists it as gold. I checked the RIAA page and it says the album is Gold. So this means 2x platinum is incorrect? Mattpaige (talk) 14:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I originally created that table and listed it as gold, where it was changed to 2x platinum I am not sure. But it appears that the certifications for the US and Canada were swapped. Now while we are discussing the certifications, I'd like to bring something confusing to your guys' attention, just for the record. As I understood it, With Teeth was certified 2x platinum in Canada because it was certified as just "1x Platinum" twice: once under Nothing Records/Interscope Records, once under Universal Music Group (see the CRIA database). But it is definitely only Gold in the US. I will change that back around now. -- Reaper  X  01:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Genres need to be visible
It's fine to have a discussion on the genres, but at least keep them visible! Titan50 (talk) 09:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

External link to Nine Inch Nails page on last.fm
Hello, i would like to suggest an external link to Nine Inch Nails last.fm page (http://www.last.fm/music/Nine+Inch+Nails). Last.fm is a user generated music platform offering free legal contents such as music and videos. They have free streams of Nine Inch Nails albums, stats, updated gigs listings about the band, etc.. As a member of last.fm staff i would like to point your attention to what we believe to be relevant and free contents for those wikipedia users interested in the band.

cheers,

Marco - Last.fm Staff - Mystical-bunny (talk) 11:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Members of NIN
Why is Trent Reznor listed as the only member? Surely Wikipedia has better sources than that...

Tezkag72 (talk) 15:44, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because, well, he is the only member. Nine Inch Nails is a project by Trent Reznor, nobody else. Zazaban (talk) 19:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * True, Reznor is NIN, but I've tried to clarify it a bit (by making a seperate list) and clarifying in the infobox. Drewcifer (talk) 07:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the Nine Inch Nails live performances section is good enough to detail live band membership, and we don't need a separate article for a list of band members. The band members article feels like a rehash of a lot of the stuff in the performance article. Mattpaige (talk) 20:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I struggled for a while about making a seperate members page, but I finally gave in and I'm glad I did. It gives the space to talk about each member in a bit more detail than the performances article does.  That said, they do overlap a little too much; you're right about that.  I think I need to trim down the performances article a little bit, because I was trying to compensate for the lack of a members article there.  I'll get around to doing that soon, and hopefully the new page won't seem like it's repeating the other article. 06:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure this is a given, but also work on making the page LOOK good - I don't know how else to put it. It just doesn't look like a quality article yet, but I'm sure that can be remedied.  As long as the appropriate work is put into it, I'm sold.Mattpaige (talk) 18:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty happy with the way it looks, but if you have any suggestions I'm definitely open to them. Drewcifer (talk) 18:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe the members should be organized into a table? Mattpaige (talk) 03:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We used to have that, don't know what happened to it. Zazaban (talk) 05:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I figured that this type of list made more sense in text than in table-format, since the majority of it is prose-based rather than data-based. The raw-data type stuff is taken care off in the timeline (basically when they played in relation to everyone else).  Also the members are already in table-format at List of Nine Inch Nails tours. Drewcifer (talk) 14:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As long as it can be considered a GA and you feel that strongly about it, I'm cool with it.Mattpaige (talk) 15:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's actually at WP:FLC at the moment! So I guess we'll see how that goes. Drewcifer (talk) 15:23, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails as Indie
Although this relates somewhat to a previous discussion, I strongly feel NIN should now fall under the independent music or independent rock genre.

"In popular music, independent music, often abbreviated as indie, is a term used to describe independence from major commercial record labels and an autonomous, do-it-yourself approach to recording and publishing." - wiki for independent music

Clearly NIN now falls under this definition and it is in my personal opinion that the NIN wiki should include indie (or indie rock) as a genre for describing nine inch nails.

"Indie rock is an umbrella term to reference rock artists that are or were unsigned, or have signed to independent record labels, rather than major record labels. Originally the term was not a reference to a specific genre of rock music; however, it has come to be used often to reference the sound of particular bands and the bands they have influenced. "Indie rock" is used as an umbrella term covering a wide range of artists and styles close to rock music, connected by some degree of allegiance to the values of underground culture and counterculture. Genres or subgenres often associated with indie rock include lo-fi, post-rock, sadcore, C86, and math rock, to list but a few; other related (and sometimes overlapping) categories include shoegazing and indie pop." - wiki for indie rock (however this one lacks citations and what not)

Indie rock is clearly an umbrella term as stated, and may be suitable for NIN

Any thoughts or (dis)agreements?

--Tunafizzle (talk) 00:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Without sources this is largely wp:OR - but a clear distinction can and should be made. Trent Reznor nor Nine Inch Nails are signed to an "Indie label." Also "Indie Rock" implies a style of music oft not associated with the type of music Nine Inch Nails produces. If anything there is a new sub-group of previously signed musicians whom are no longer represented by a label - and are operating on their own distribution models. This categorization though, would not be Indie Rock or an Indie music. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 13:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've heard some people starting to call it 'Free rock' Zazaban (talk) 19:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "it is in my personal opinion . . ." This is the flaw in your argument, according to Wikipedia guidelines on verifibility. Not to mention Nine Inch Nails are not indie rock. WesleyDodds (talk) 07:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

"...are operating on their own distribution models..." Ataru, How is this not independent music? I'm not trying to be insulting by any means. Again, i'll refer from the wiki for indie music: "independence from major commercial record labels and an autonomous, do-it-yourself approach to recording and publishing" This seems to fit appropriately for the current status for Trent Reznor/NIN. If one can find a way to cite this correctly then how is it wrong? Thanks, Tunafizzle (talk) 11:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The onus is on you provide sources that support your argument that are outside wikipedia. Wikipedia is a tertiary source, and should not be used. To date you have provided no instances in publication, news media or reliable sources that categorize Nine Inch Nails as "Indie Rock" or their operation as an "indie label." Furthermore, I'll reiterate that the "Indie" moniker is deeply associated with smaller acts that have not achieved prolonged mainstream attention. And in my opinion, the term is further diminished when used to describe bands such as Death Cab for Cutie who though are considered "indie rock" have been signed to a major record label and have worldwide distribution. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 12:46, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

NIИ
Should we at least mention that it is often seen abbreviated by the band as NIИ? 76.126.15.78 (talk) 17:52, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No need. It's just playing with the style of the name. It still is perceived as an N. Also, there is a picture of the logo so it doesn't need to be mentioned. Xe7al (talk) 17:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The Slip section
I edited down the slip section. It had a lot of unnecessary stuff. I moved some info into the Album page.

Electronic music as genre
It's a broad term, but it's a big description for NIN's genre of music. It's even on the list of genres for Trent. I believe that it should be listed if "metal" is even allowed to be in the list despite that most of his songs don't contain many elements of metal. Thank you.

24.130.49.219 (talk) 06:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally think that using Industrial Rock explains that. Plus, electronic starts diving into Techno, Trance, Drum 'N' Bass, and onward. Mentioning that he has a strong influence from Industrial and Electronic music would be a much better route. Xe7al (talk) 17:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Tour pages
I am currently making tour wikipages for each tour. Right now I have only began on the Pretty Hate Machine Tour Series, if you are interested please help, but do not make unconstructive edits or messing up what is currently there. It has taken me a long time to get halfway done with the page! Please do add information that is not correct! Thanks, I hope to have the whole tour thing done as soon as possible and have it linked on the NIN page! Tribestros (talk) 20:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Years
In the article's history should be included the years (divided like: The Slip: 2006-2007), because it's very confusing.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  16:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Meaning behind the Band Name
Are the nails in Nine Inch Nails supposed to be finger-nails or hammer-nails? My inclination has always been Nine Inch finger-Nails, as finger-nails are more poignant and existential than hammer-nails. Plus, finger-nails fit better with many of the nihilistic themes expressed in the lyrics of NIN's songs - "Into the Void" is a great example here. FitzColinGerald (talk) 11:58, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

This is absolute speculation. Please don't expand on this idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.209.144.150 (talk) 21:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Trent has spoken about this and the name means nothing. Apparently a number of them sat around thinking up cool names, and NIN stuck. Trent has also said that the acronym looked good and worked well from a design PoV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.167.143.229 (talk) 16:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, sorry, but I've gotta say - it stemmed from the nine-inch nails that are used to shut coffins. Tindefacto (talk) 23:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh, this discussion is over a year old. Just to clarify, though, coffins don't use 9" nails. That would be serious overkill. More likely he stumbled across a term relating to railroad spikes. &mdash;  The Hand That Feeds You :Bite 14:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Political Leanings
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to include Nine Inch Nails' political leanings? I'm under the impression that they tend to get involved in politics, although I could be wrong, and I think it would be interesting and informative to include a section on the band's political beliefs and which party or what candidates they support in general. I personally have no idea how outspoken they actually are or who/which party they have supported or are currently supporting, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd guess they are generally liberal and support Obama in the upcoming election. Ideas? -  Bagel7  T's 06:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There are political overtones in various songs but I don't think it's central to nine inch nails and so to have a section discussing solely this sort of thing might not be the greatest idea. A section discussing lyrical content and direction/evolution might be appropriate--as far as I know there isn't much discussion on this in the article so if you can find some sources that talk in depth about this, it could provide a nice supplement to the article. I know Trent Reznor himself has been somewhat politically active and vocal throughout his career and some of these things are scantly mentioned in his article. Prompted by your new section, I searched but was unable to find anything on who he might support, if anyone, in the current U.S. presidential election, but I'd certainly be willing to bet he's not a McCain guy. --Ubiq (talk) 08:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This is all I've been able to find: and --Ubiq (talk) 08:35, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

minor fact (Quake 1)
Not a single word about NiN's work on Quake 1 ? (for me) Quake is like Half-Life 1 : one of the most important FPS videogame ever. Maybe one little line about it could be great. NB : today while playing Quake 1 (vanilla !) again, I learned that ammo boxes (nails :D) have a "NiN" logo on them, it was a great surprise ! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.55.236.215 (talk) 18:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * True, however it was the works of Trent Reznor that is the sound track to Quake. If to check the demo's on the quake wikipedia article, you will find that the nail gun ammo does have the 'NIN' logo on them. A sort of homage to the band.


 * Trent's work on the sound track does set the ambience of the game very well, and the sound track can be heard if you play the Quake installation disc into any CD player.


 * You can still play Quake on most modern computers, but it will require a source port (WinQuake), which can be downloaded from any quake fan base website or download mirror sites.--Wouse101 (talk) 11:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

What is an act?
Nine Inch Nails is a rock act. Is this a normal use of the word act. I don't know what it means in this context. I cannot find a fit in Wiktionary. Maybe a more explanatory definition is needed. --Ettrig (talk) 14:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Currently on Hiatus
Is it really appropriate to say that they are "currently on hiatus" as they have announced that they are touring and still adding more dates to this year's tour? After this tour is when Trent said that Nine Inch Nails would "disappear for a while". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevincarson1 (talk • contribs) 01:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, "final thoughts" is rather conclusive, whereas he says no such thing. It seems like everyone on here is taking this to be Trent Reznor's final bow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevincarson1 (talk • contribs) 06:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Why is it claimed that "a wave goodbye" is from the "Lights In The Sky" lyrics, when it's also possible they're from "With Teeth"? "Lights In The Sky" contains the words "The lights in the sky / Are waving goodbye", sure, but the lyrics from "With Teeth" seem equally appropriate: "A wave goodbye / To what you were / The rules have changed, the line begins to blur / ... / You've finally found the place where you belong"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.88.34.52 (talk) 14:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Strobelight
Anyone could add some info about the April fool's joke album Strobelight produced by Timbaland? See here: http://www.nin.com/strobelight/ Maybe it could be in the Discography page. --72.0.250.56 (talk) 21:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

It's an April Fool's joke, you said so yourself. It's not a real album and it hasn't been recorded or released in any form, so why would it be included in the Discography? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.177.150 (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Change to fact tag
The reference for "Reznor has said outright in an interview on the official website that he is not done making music as Nine Inch Nails, but that he is done touring" was tour.nin.com, which definitely does not state that. So I've gone ahead and changed it to a fact tag. Until someone finds a reference to back up that claim, please don't remove the tag. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 03:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha, fulfilled my own prophecy. I found an article in a recent Mojo magazine with a bunch of info. Quoted and cited. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 03:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Present vs. 2009
Since everyone keeps changing and reverting the dates of activity, we need to settle this. Since the band is still touring, I believe it needs to stay "1988-present." ...and there is no telling if the tour may or may not extend to 2010. Until Trent officially says he's done touring and producing music, I think we should leave it. ...and yes, I do know he said he's done after this tour. But let's just wait for the tour to end. Anyway, I'm putting a comment by that to read this first. Who's with me on this? Xe7al (talk) 21:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe he's said he's done touring for good, but gonna work on non-NIN stuff for a while. So in other words, no more touring, but NIN will eventually be back in a musical sense.  So it's really no different then Reznor's many long breaks between albums.  NIN as a live entity is done, but not as a musical entity.  This article is about the musical entity, so it should say "present" until we hear otherwise. Drewcifer (talk) 22:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * His US tour is over. He's still doing the world wide tour.Xe7al (talk) 14:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

A friend of mine worked on the Metallica tour and spoke to members of the NIN/JA crew who said that there is a new NIN album ready to drop! http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/new-nine-inch-nails-album-ready-to-drop/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.167.143.229 (talk) 16:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

There's still no source saying that NIN is over, and Trent's taken many breaks from NIN during his musical career, so stop with the edit war and leave the date range in the infobox as 1988-present -- Foetusized (talk) 21:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Strobe Light
Per the recent AfD concerning the Strobe Light (album) article, I've copy+pasted the content of the article here, for possible merge. Personally, I don't think 99.9% of the content is really worth keeping or merging, since the Strobe Light "album" is such a minor piece of NIN history. But here's all of the content nonetheless (un-wikified, just as code), in case someone else can find something worthwhile from it. Drewcifer (talk) 23:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Eh,... I dont know what to tell you, i think we should merge but most of the stuff about the downloading crap has to go... i think there's a real about explaining stuff like that. But its still good keep it. but majorly shorten and clean up the download intructions. cause wikipedia isnt and instruction site. --TJMcDJ (talk) 16:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

New album ready to drop
Seeing as the only member of NIN has stated there is no new album ready to drop, is there much point in placing a piece of gossip in the article? Link Sheepdean (talk) 20:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

retired...
hmm... I thought they were retiring...-- The  other   shadow   21:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * They retired from live performances, but not from creating music in-studio. Drewcifer (talk) 22:16, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Just found this NYT arts-blog cite about the band selling off gear, but don't have time to properly add it to the article -- -- Foetusized (talk) 01:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Added -- Foetusized (talk) 16:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)