Talk:Nintendo 3DS/Archive 5

It should be called Nintendo DS, not DS
Often in this article, its called DS. But why! It isn't officially shortened. I demand all if it gets changed to Nintendo DS. PS. SONY IS STUPID!!! 173.86.62.176 (talk) 15:55, 4 May 2011 (UTC) Ethan.
 * There's no crime in shortening the name. I'm pretty sure "3DS" appears many times in the article without the "Nintendo" before it. I think even Nintendo themselves shorten the name sometimes. Besides, having to say the full name of anything can get annoying sometimes. So it gets shortened.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:52, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Why? Because people won't know what "DS" means? As long as "Nintendo DS" was written out in article early on (it is), then there's no need to write it out every single time, much like how people don't always write out Sega Dreamcast or Nintendo Gamecube. There's no alternative for anyone to get it confused with. Sergecross73   msg me   17:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

US sales numbers
Something is wrong with these sale numbers, it says 400,000 were sold during March and 440,000 were sold in its opening week. The 3DS was released the last week of the month so the month and first week sales should be the same. --Shadow (talk) 04:33, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I could be wrong, but my thought was that the week spanned 2 months, and thus, 400k were during the "March" part of the week, where as the other 40k were during that week, but outside of the month of March. Does that make sense? That's how I've understood it anyways, that could be wrong too... Sergecross73   msg me   12:22, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No I'm kind of confused on what your trying to say. --Shadow (talk) 03:48, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Serge is saying that the 400k were from March 27-31, and the 40k were from April 1-2. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 04:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah gotcha. Ok that makes sense. Wasn't thinking about the two days in April. --Shadow (talk) 19:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 161.148.171.8, 5 May 2011
There is an incorrect information on the page. It states that for the user to scale the DS games to DS resolution, the user must hold START and SELECT upon starting the game. Actually, the user must hold either START or SELECT.

161.148.171.8 (talk) 19:43, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to Nintendo's own site, the information you wish to change in the article is correct. - Happysailor  (Talk) 08:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but you aren't right, but if you where right, you should include a source, or else you have no chance of getting changed. TheBradford  msg Bradford  18:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Nope, it's either start OR select. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.36.68 (talk) 20:41, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Not really reception?
When the device is operating in 3D mode, the front display serves as the parallax barrier, consisting of a series of opaque vertical stripes which block half of the light coming from the screen to each eye, so to compensate, the device's backlight has to be twice as bright and consequently the battery drains twice as quickly.

Now, while true and sourced, I kind of feel like this should be removed from the reception. Reception usually exerts some sort of judgement or opinion of the writer, while this is merely the stating of facts. It'd be good in a hypothetical section about the battery or something though. Thoughts? Sergecross73  msg me   13:57, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think Gsarwa was trying to elaborate on the negative reception of the battery. I'm not so sure about a whole battery section...  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:20, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I don't especially think we need a battery section either, it was just an example of an area it would be appropriate in. I'm saying, it's not reception if no positive or negative commentary is made. It's not saying the battery was "disappointing" or "poorly made" or "a value at the price". It's just giving straight characteristics, and that's not really "reception". That being said, I'm sure there's a million different sources that go into detail about their disappointment with the battery, it's a common sentiment. But I'm not sure about this one. (Though that's based only on the part included on the article.  Sergecross73   msg me   17:00, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I decided to remove it. If anyone has any problems, we can discuss this.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:34, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Nintendo Wi-Fi
Is it listed in the article that Nintendo dropped Nintendo Wi-Fi and they started using bg Wi-Fi??? I don't have a source because I only saw it on the back of the box. But if anyone has a source for it, it should be added. TheBradford  msg Bradford  16:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC) But I could be wrong, I just saw a bg Wi-Fi sign on the back of the box. And I don't see Nintendo Wi-Fi anymore. Does anyone have a source proving this? TheBradford  msg Bradford  16:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. Seems like it'd be something easier for you to look up a source on... Sergecross73   msg me   16:57, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm saying Nintendo got rid of Nitendo Wi-Fi, and replaced it with bg Wi-Fi which is made by a different company, I know its confusing. TheBradford   msg Bradford  17:52, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, no, no, no. Nintendo Wi-Fi is still in use. What you call "bg Wi-Fi" is 802.11b/g. 802.11b/g is Wi-Fi, or rather, a type of Wi-Fi called IEEE 802.11g-2003. (802.11b/g redirects to that IEEE article.) The name "Wi-Fi" is just the marketing name, while IEEE 802.11g-2003 is the technical name for it. This is a simplified explanation, and I don't get the whole picture, either. But that's how it is.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:51, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Non-existent Nintendo 3DS Messaging Service
There is no 3DS Messaging service. There is just a small Friend list Application which you can use to upload small Status messages. You cannot Message individual friends. I tried to amend this problem on Wikipedia, but it was changed back. Can a member of the site please help. Thank you.
 * I was under the impression that this messaging service was the short status messages. Am I wrong?  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no messaging service on the 3DS. I don't really have a source saying there isn't one, but I own one and I'm positive there is no messaging service. TheBradford   msg Bradford  17:55, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I just removed it. I hope it stays that way. I hate it when a source is used against an article. TheBradford   msg Bradford  17:58, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't have a 3DS, so I'll take your word for it. No messaging service it is.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 18:01, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This info on the friends list should be mentioned, though. Perhaps a Friend List section?  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there should be one about that. Because the 3DS has a lot to do with the friend list. TheBradford   msg Bradford  18:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Stickman, as far as I know, you were correct, the 3DS Messaging is the "short status message". (I say, "as far as I know", because I haven't messed with it much yet, as I've yet to come across anyone else who has a 3DS.) So, it really wasn't that the "source was wrong" - the info itself was correct - it's more that it was kind of labeled weird in the article... Sergecross73  msg me   14:08, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, nowhere does any reliable site formally refer to it as the "3DS Messaging Service". I'm liking the sound of a Friend List section.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 22:16, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd support that. It'll probably be a short section, but it'd be expandable if/when more features are added, especially with updates with internet browsers and more internet-friendly games are released. Sergecross73   msg me   01:26, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So it that what we are going to do? I think that is are best option. TheBradford   msg Bradford  14:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

The Sun vs 3DS
The Sun wrote a (pretty dumb) article about health and safety for the 3DS : http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3511602/Sun-tests-sickly-Nintendo-3DS.html Should it be mentioned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.195.90 (talk) 19:32, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not really familiar with "The Sun", but with genious headlines like "Nintendo 3DS is game for a barf", accompanied with a crazed looking man with his eyes crossed, doesn't strike me as very high quality reporting... Sergecross73   msg me   02:56, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * One question would be has anyone else covered it? The article in question was written in early April so if this has not gained any additional coverage since then it would seem that coverage of this article is not neccessary.--76.66.185.169 (talk) 01:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe it may have gotten other coverage, but I'm I still don't think it's really notable in the whole scheme of the 3DS's existence. But that's just me. I suppose there's room for disagreement if someone feels strongly about it, and puts it in the article in a way that makes sense... Sergecross73  msg me   02:15, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

The Sun is a tabloid, so anything like this should be taken with a pinch of salt, a lot of their "reporting" is sensationalist garbage. I think most people buy it for their Page Three girls and the colouring in anyway. While I guess it can be for specific news information and facts (at least according to a casual look at ), this seems little more than an opinion piece. And as mentioned, there is probably already coverage in more reliable press. Rehevkor ✉ 10:36, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Generation of handheld?
this article had been here for a few months. why hasnt anyone put which generation it is? Ecreme (talk) 23:15, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Because there's been a lot of controversy.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 23:29, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that link, I was wondering where that discussion was, so I could use it for people who ask about it as well. I bet the "generations" discussion will heat up again with E3 coming soon, with announcements for NGP, and Project Cafe, more popularity of the 3ds, etc... Sergecross73   msg me   17:10, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The latest commercial of Nintendo in United Kingdom says "the next generation is here": Youtube video. So it's an eighth generation console, Nintendo has spoken. --82.58.215.57 (talk) 09:52, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That argument has been shot down so many times. See this for more info.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 12:39, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

TOS
According to http://www.defectivebydesign.org/nintendo a website by the FSF, the 3DS has a very restrictive and intrusive TOS (term of service). Shouldn't we add that ? --Jertonit (talk) 12:45, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. Don't a lot of electronic devices have really strict TOS if peple actually bother to read them? Sergecross73   msg me   13:07, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but I think it's the first time that a company like Nintendo take right over a picture you made. Even through you are under 13 years old. Anyway, maybe we should add a critiscm section with that and the health problem ? The FSF is not a small group anyway, so their opinion still worth something. --Jertonit (talk) 13:50, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think "Criticism" sections are somewhat frowned upon due to WP:POV/bias issues, but there is already a "health concerns" section, and I suppose the FSF section could be briefly added to the end of the Reception section...

Any other sources of this? We don't want to violate WP:UNDUE. Is this even a reliable source? Rehevkor ✉ 14:04, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it's a FSF website, so it's not like they are completly unkown. Also I found some source who talk about that like : http://www.geek.com/articles/games/anti-drm-group-wants-to-send-nintendo-bricks-to-protest-3ds-terms-of-service-20110518/ and http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/227957/nintendo_3ds_targeted_in_antidrm_campaign.html --Jertonit (talk) 16:48, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Two 3D Cameras?
The camera section of the technical comparison states that the 3DS has two 3D cameras on the back, and although it is true it has two cameras on the back, it only has one "3D" camera, 3D simply being two 2D cameras properly placed horizontally.

For it to have two 3D cameras on the back it would need 3-4 cameras near each other. Michael Reineke (talk) 16:09, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * ... I suppose that the wording is confusing. It's not really one camera, but also not really two. I'll change the wording to reflect that.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 20:59, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * actually it is three cameras..two on the front and one on the inside. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.218.125.53 (talk) 00:22, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And I have already changed the wording to just "two rear-facing cameras". Yes, there are two cameras, but they act as one. It could go either way, so for the sake of simplicity, I removed "2D" and "3D" from the description.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 01:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

You only need to hold down Start OR Select to play games in the native resolution.
You do not need to hold down both. The article is incorrect as written. The following sentence needs to be modified:

"However, if the user holds down the START and SELECT buttons upon launching the DS software, the displays will be at the DS's native resolution, albeit smaller with black borders."--128.227.13.35 (talk) 21:46, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Source?Jasper Deng (talk) 21:48, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Personal experience. I'm unfamiliar with Wikipedia's policies, would a video demonstrating the fact be enough to change the article? It's a gigantic misconception and I encourage anyone with a 3DS to try it.--128.227.13.35 (talk) 00:43, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If it's some personal video you uploaded on youtube, then no, that wouldn't work. I suppose if there's some IGN video or something that'd work. Ultimately a video's not that important, all you need is a link to an article that says what you're saying, and have it be a reliable source. Gamespot, IGN, etc. Sergecross73   msg me   00:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I just found out Wikipedia is looking for "verifiability, not truth". A damn shame since many official sources got this wrong and it's easily experimentally proven. Please disregard this edit request.--128.227.124.143 (talk) 05:08, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't that a little melodramatic? I mean, the the trick works with either button combination, right? >_> Sergecross73   msg me   17:07, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * While I am not sure if this is the best source, an IGN review of the Virtual Console version of the Link's Awakening mentions using either the start or select to have the game in its native resolution. It is six paragraphs down [].--76.69.169.220 (talk) 01:40, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's reliable, but this only shows it being applied to a GameBoy game, not necessarily a DS game.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 03:06, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * How about just saying "non-3DS games" can be run at the native resolution by pressing start or select? This would satisfy both the anal-retentive verification policy while also being true in reality. 76.10.165.130 (talk) 20:52, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, a source was found already.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 22:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Request: Internet Browser
There is no info about the browser, and it has been released. Quadrplax (talk) 01:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally haven't heard much about it. Is there much to be said? Sergecross73   msg me   01:49, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Basically, it is more compatible with web standards but still not on the level of common smartphones.

- From http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/built-in-software/#/8 you can cite a few things: a) Browses the internet via wifi b) can be run with a game paused in the background c) upload 3D images to sites designed to support such.

- From http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/nintendo-3ds-eshop-and-web-browser-go-live-50004025/ you can cite: a) doesn't support Flash b) can upload and download 3D images from supported sites c) can be accessed during gameplay.

- From http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/06/guides_3ds_eshop_update_faq?page=4 you can cite: It's faster and more powerful [ie, better compatibility]

- From http://www.gamesradar.com/3ds/nintendo-3ds/news/nintendo-chooses-netfront-for-its-3ds-internet-browser/a-20110228124610593047/g-20100616102754448006 you can cite: a) It is Netfront-based instead of Opera, which Nintendo has previously chosen for both the Wii and DS/DSi web browsers b) it is "more flexible" [ie, better compatibility] thanks to the improved hardware. 76.10.165.130 (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 117.197.248.211, 1 July 2011
I would like to add the current and discontinued tab to the comparison

117.197.248.211 (talk) 11:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * State what you would like to change here, please. — G FOLEY   F OUR  — 23:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

low popularity in norway
the dsi is the most popular handheld console in norway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 12:23, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sources for that? Not being the most popular doesn't necessarily make something have "low popularity." Rehevkor ✉ 12:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

check spaceworld.no. it is one of the major norwegian multimedia shops. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 20:16, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Since I don't think many of us understands Norwegian, why not show us the link? Besides, I kind of doubt the notability of this fact. If it really should be mentioned, I think it would be better over in the DSi article.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 21:33, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * For being the one who wants this in the article, you sure aren't explaining yourself very much... Sergecross73   msg me   16:09, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:NOPRICE
I've noticed users removing the amount of the prices drop citing WP:NOPRICE as their rationale. To my understanding, that policy is more relevant to articles like List of Nintendo 3DS games, where people try to price out every single game. It's to keep wikipedia from being like a catalog or directory. (Hence, why the "NOPRICE" link actually links to the "Wikipedia is not a directory" section of policy.)

Furthermore, look at point #5. In general, if mainstream media sources (not just product reviews) provide commentary on the price of an object instead of just passing mention, this is an indication that its price may have encyclopedic significance.. A quick google search would show you that there are likely hundreds of websites chiming in on their commentary as far as what the price cut means.

Therefore, I feel that the actual amount of it's price, and the amount of the cut (shown in dollars or % cut) is important to note in the article. Thoughts? Sergecross73  msg me   18:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, another concern of mine is that it would be biased towards American readers, since the U.S. isn't the only country that mainly speaks English. Like, why not add British pounds? That was just my thoughts.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 18:51, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The one I did about US dollars was merely because it was the only one I knew by memory, and I was correcting someone else's edit which had all this speculation on how it was due to bad launch titles or something. I'm not opposed to any other currencies. Perhaps we could announce the % cut in general in the lead (seems like places are saying it's between 30-40% cut) and then put some of the other main currencies down in the release or a post release section.


 * A price reduction like this, so large and so soon after launch, really is unprecedented in the video game industry... Sergecross73   msg me   18:58, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * WP:NOPRICE shouldn't apply here per "be sourced and there is a justified reason for their mention," the price is important to understanding the price drop issue, and the price drop has received significant coverage, so both points are addressed. As for the currency it's listed in, that's another issue I suppose.. Rehevkor ✉ 19:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, alright then. I guess prices/percentages can be put back in.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 16:55, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Price Drop/Ambassador program
I think the pricedrop needs a little more note then the one sentence mention in the opening paragraph. I also don't see any mention of the ambassador program. Were I more of a word smith, I would add them, but they do warrant a bit more coverage in the article methinks. 160.107.87.10 (talk) 13:58, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. As you can see in the section above, we've been discussing how to go about some aspects of this. It just seems no one's gotten around to it yet.  Sergecross73   msg me   14:56, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Sub-question ... does the Ambassador program (now effectively complete, since the GBA games have launched) belong in the lead at all? It certainly belongs in the article, but placement in the lead seems to give extra weight to the topic. -- McDoob AU  93  21:46, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I can see your argument. I recently cut it down some a week or so ago because I thought it was taking up too much space. I feel like, right now, it's noteworthy enough to be in the lead, but maybe not so much down the line. (I feel like it could be pretty insignificant once it's been out for 4 years, for example.) I'm all for cutting it down even shorter though. Sergecross73   msg me   22:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Web browser
Hi. The one sentence mentioning the web browser is a good addition. Any expanding that could be done? (e.g. Are there things that set it apart from the dsi browser?) I'll gladly contribute if anyone knows of some good sources that can be relied upon to help expand the section. Thanks. 67.182.237.57 (talk) 18:52, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry; I guess I didn't read the earlier discussion. I'll look at that. 67.182.237.57 (talk) 18:55, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 75.136.226.133, 10 August 2011
Hello. I'm sorry that I am unable to edit the Nintendo 3DS article, and I can see some good reasons why. I would just like to request that I put down the 3DS' new price in the US ($169.99) and the effective date. Of course I would have to find the proper source to credit the information. Thank you.

75.136.226.133 (talk) 17:41, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's allowed per NOPRICES unfortunately. The most we can do is talk about the price drop scheme (with reliable sources) indirectly without mentioning any prices. Chickasaurus (talk) 19:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Small correction needed
The article was recently changed to state The system comes in the "Aqua Blue" and "Cosmo Black" color variations, and as of August 10, "Flame Red". however the problem is the red 3DS will not be released until sept. 9[]. Can someone please correct this as the currently wording implies that the Flame Red 3ds came out today.--76.66.180.220 (talk) 22:31, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 70.180.211.90, 15 August 2011
There's a new color called Flame Red and its coming soon in September.

70.180.211.90 (talk) 00:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ✔️. Check the article next time.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 00:29, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

3DS vs DS
Large changes... I apologize.

That 3DS vs DS comparison table is probably the only predecessor vs successor out there in Wikipedia. Never seen DS vs GBA, PS3 vs PS2, Wii U vs Wii, and such. Who and/or where that "3DS vs DS" idea come from? There may be some DS features backward compatible with 3DS or maybe DS Lite has better battery life than 3DS, but that doesn't make it a 3DS vs DS.

The versus table with fallen DS columns suit well in Nintendo DS article.

Any additional opinions support/against this? Rukario -sama ^ㅈ^ -(...)  23:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I always thought the table was stupidly big and somewhat of an eyesore. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 23:58, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I like it, and the info seems to be mostly factual and sourced. If there's some sort of precedent, or consensus, against it, I'd understand removal. If it's just that no one else has bothered to do similar ones...I don't think that's good grounds for removal... Sergecross73   msg me   01:08, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes I apologize for the sudden and large changes... Rukario -sama  ^ㅈ^ -(...)  01:36, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm neutral, I suppose. I understand why some might want it gone, but there is some relevant comparisons in the table.  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 01:54, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And you can still compare between 3DS and DS models by opening two articles and look at their specs... Rukario -sama  ^ㅈ^ -(...)  03:13, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of keeping the comparison table. I find it useful to see the features side-by-side, and it conveniently shows the improvements that have been made in newer models.  It would be more difficult to compare features if one had to open two articles and arrange them side-by-side.  Curious  Eric  12:32, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * So then do successor articles deserve that table too, because it's "easier" to compare them? Rukario -sama  ^ㅈ^ -(...)  18:56, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Two points I've already made on this talk page before, there's a Comparison of handheld game consoles for people who want a comparison (it would need to be updated) and if it does stay I'd rather it be default hidden.-- sss333  (talk) 05:11, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

So should we give it another try (the info may need to update after some major changes) and see how it goes? Rukario <font color="#555">-sama <font color="#666">^ㅈ^ -(...)  08:59, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

A very proper article
Nothing is stated that at this time the 3DS is a flop, with only 40 games available after 6 months (most of which are rehashed from the DS). I believe the article should be allowed to have a fair criticism section (as long as it is backed up, of which there are plenty of original sources). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.34.116 (talk) 12:30, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Feel free to add criticisms, as long as they are sourced, but don't add them to a "critcisms" section, just put it in the reception section, as this would fall into that section, and the reception is pretty short as it is anyways... Sergecross73   msg me   12:40, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's semi-protected right now, though...  TheStickMan  [✆Talk] 15:45, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't realize it still was. Okay, well, add the sources/content you'd like to see on the article here on the discussion page, and then see if you can convince anyone to add it for you. Sergecross73   msg me   15:50, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't think the 3DS is a verified "flop". It is still selling better than the previous DS and Nintendo has recently announced a ton of new games. As well, how can one define flop? By sales? Popularity? Number of games? Number of games sold? Just don't think it's fair to call anything a flop 6 months out of the gate. Would love to see if you can provide verified sources confirming that the 3DS has indeed failed, though.
 * AATroop (talk) 01:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The system is selling at a faster rate than the original DS in the United States (per an article on GameSpot), and a source in this article mentions how fast it sold in Australia. If Nintendo had already discontinued the 3DS, then such talk could be considered. But the sourced information seems to suggest 3DS is doing just fine. Incidentally, "criticism" sections for the sake of having them are frowned upon. -- McDoob  AU  93  21:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Copy editing…
Is the copy editing template still necessary? Chris (talk) 00:36, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. It's one of those things where, virtually any article that's not considered a good article could rightfully have that template on it, and yet at the same time, there are an endless number of articles that are in far worse shape than this one, that don't have that template on it too. It could probably be removed...but if someone challenges removing it, it should probably stay... Sergecross73   msg me   20:12, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Monster Hunter
Quick heads up, since I can't edit, Monster Hunter 3G should just be Monster Hunter Tri G. That way, you'll be able to quick link to that page (as of this posting it is undefined). AATroop (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC).
 * Someone else mentioned this too in one of their edit summaries. Actually, it looks like the game is going by the name "Monster Hunter 3G". See here or here, for example. Sergecross73   msg me   03:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

"will directly compete with Sony's new handheld the PlayStation Vita"
While I don't actually disagree with the sentiment, there are issues. I recall reading that Nintendo did not intend for their DS to compete with the PSP, which implies that the same could apply to the 3DS. The above statement suggests that are intentionally pitching the consoles against each other which we cannot presume to be true. The Vita hasn't even been released yet and last time I checked no one can predicted the future. Either way, it's unsourced per the above I have issues with not just the lack of sources but the wording and what it implies as fact.  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 03:09, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if I came across as "brash" with my edits and summaries, but I really feel this is justified for any number of reasons.


 * First off, there's the fact that they are both very similar products providing similar services. (I know people may argue "there are different demographics or whatnot, but in the scheme of the world's company's products, they are very similar, they are handheld video game systems.) That's why I felt it fell under WP:BLUE. But alas, you challenged, so here's some more arguments.


 * Point #1 - There are many reliable, third party sources that either literally say competition, or certainly suggest it, in the way that they compare and discuss the two. In short, it wouldn't make sense to have all these endless articles comparing the two if they weren't in competition with each other.
 * http://www.industrygamers.com/news/3ds-vs-ps-vita-handheld-wars-the-next-generation/
 * http://wii.ign.com/articles/117/1177143p1.html
 * http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Multiformat/E3+2011/feature.asp?c=30588
 * http://www.joystiq.com/2011/09/15/the-hidden-costs-of-playstation-vita-3ds-esque-battery-life-and/
 * http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20071733-1/is-the-3ds-in-trouble/


 * Point #2 - Nintendo/Sony have made comments saying they aren't competing with each other.
 * See, that's fine and all, but just because they say it, doesn't means it's true. This strikes me as one of those situations where third party sources can make a better call on it that first party sources. I feel like this is similar to in music situations, when a band of an unpopular genre deny they were ever part of it. Like how band's like My Chemical Romance deny being part of the emo genre, or someone like Linkin Park not being part of nu metal once those genre's were phased out of popularity. Just because they say they aren't, doesn't make it so. We'd go by what reliable, third party sources are classifying them by.

So anyways, in conclusion, if you're still not convinced, we can wait and see what others say. I'd be open to wording it differently if you think, but I think it should be in there, and I feel like it'd just be constantly re-added by others if it's removed anways, because it seems to be recognized as such in general. Sergecross73  msg me   17:06, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello. Well there are sources now so it should be good. Although I still have concerns about the wording, specifically the "directly" which seems to ignore the iOS/phone gaming market.  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 11:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's fine. The way you reworded it and took out "directly" is fine by me. An alternative could be to also add in something about iPhone/Pads/etc, as I've seen many sources that would confirm that as well, but then it may get cluttered, with people adding every phone platform under the sun...so this is fine for now... Sergecross73   msg me   12:37, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Streetpass Quest and Puzzle Swap games
Is there any mention of these two games within the Mii Plaza? If there is, that's great: can someone tell me where they are? I would've thought that the Streetpass Quest could have a page all by itself, considering the expansion of content included with Quest II. Zsingaya (talk) 00:43, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Image
There seems to be a minor/slow edit war brewing over the image. The two options are the original File:Nintendo-3DS-AquaOpen.png and File:Black_Nintendo_3DS.jpg. Personally the original blue 3DS image is vastly superior in quality and clarity.  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 21:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, not only that, but no rationale was given for the new image other than an empty "thought we might change the pic..." -- As long as there's no real rationale to change, and as long as there's no issues with the original, aqua, 3DS picture, it should just be kept the same. Sergecross73   msg me   21:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the black one looks quite dirty. How in the world could anyone consider that a better pic? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 23:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Nintendogs + Cats
I don't doubt that Nintendogs may no longer the best selling game. But which is it? I've read in reliable sources that 3D Land and Mario Kart have sold over a million in the US alone (as examples), VGchartz is not reliable. Anyone able to dig up some sources to de-throne Nintendogs?  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 18:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believe anything has been formally announced, other than MK7 and SM3DL crossing the million mark. (It doesn't help that NPD is so stingy with their figures these days either...) I think before long Nitendo will have some sort of quarterly report where they can tout their sales, and it'll be cleared up... Sergecross73   msg me   03:34, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * FYI Nintendo has updated their figures. Super Mario 3D Land is officially the highest seller with over 5m. List of best-selling Nintendo 3DS video games has info on this. The figures for Super Mario and Mario Kart are correct at least. Sergecross73   msg me   02:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

"Boys playing Nintendo 3DS" photo
Something's not right here. Looking at the image placed in an article, it shows children playing the Nintendo DSi, not the 3DS. Look at the camera on the outer casing. Hounder4 (Talk)  10:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspected as much, but I didn't have a 3DS to hand to compare. I do now. I don't see the 3DS pen slot either, charger port in the wrong place. Clearly not a 3DS.  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 10:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was actually about to revert that picture out of the article myself, but you beat me to it by a second but you edited the caption, and I misread it as you removing it out of the article altogether.
 * Even if it was a 3DS, the picture's not necessary, it doesn't contribute anything to the understanding of the article. People can imagine kids using one just fine, without a visual. But it not even being a 3DS is an even better reason to keep it out, so that's good to know too. Sergecross73   msg me   12:38, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * FWIW, it also looks to me like the one on the right is a girl, too. Not that it matters but makes me just the the fact that someone mislabeled the system... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:43, 10 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Sporting a flash cart too, not the most encouraging representation :P  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 11:59, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Piracy
140.168.135.1 (talk) 07:53, 18 April 2012 (UTC) Nobody has bothered to add info about all the flashcarts (including the R4) for the 3DS? This article almost sounds like it is written by nintendo themselves given that it mentions that they solved the piracy problem but doesnt mention that it only lasted maybe a few months...........
 * Have any reliable sources on this? From what I've personally read, it doesn't seem like piracy has become that big of a deal on the 3DS yet. I've heard some minor things were cracked, but I wasn't aware of any widespread piracy problems... Sergecross73   msg me   13:09, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you mean by "it only lasted a few months" as a year later it's still impossible to pirate 3DS games, and the fact that DS flashcarts work on the 3DS is hardly anything worth noting at this point, I think. As Sergecross said, unless there's RSes about it, we can't add it into the article anyway. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:43, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

There is this, and probably others. But they're all running in DS mode probably using the same exploits that allowed them to run on DSi units (which also run in DS mode only). There is currently zero 3DS game piracy, I believe currently some groups have managed to dump games, but there is no way to play them. Some of the DS articles (Nintendo DS homebrew/Nintendo DS storage devices) have become playgrounds for unsourced or badly sourced information on "homebrew" (a.k.a rampant piracy), I'd rather not see that happen here..  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 15:00, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

3DS processor
Is this source is reliable? Because if it is, then we could add that the 3DS's processor is 1 GHz dual core ARM11. Likesorange (talk) 00:08, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Merger proposal
While the news of the 3DS XL is exciting, the upgrade does not merit it's own page. The DSi XL and DSi pages we're merged after some discussion and most came to the conclusion that there was significant overlap (since the consoles only have one major difference, the size), so there is minimal content which could be covered on a separate page. The changes in the system should be covered as a section on the original 3DS page. Does this reasonable to everyone else? Mrtube (talk) 13:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support Meant to start flagging this last night when it came up, but was way late for me. -- McDoob  AU  93  13:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose I find articles that get merger like this to be cluttered hard to read messes. 74.90.121.53 (talk) 14:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * How is it going to get crowded? Is there really much more to say other than it's a bigger version of the normal 3DS? Sergecross73   msg me   14:39, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The article is a stub. Please explain how it'll get "cluttered" and be a "hard to read mess". Cyan  Gardevoir  (used EDIT!) 00:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support, as with DSi XL there is nothing otherwise significant other than size. Another article isn't necessary.  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 15:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support I was pretty surprised to see a separate article on the thing. It's...bigger. Nothing else. Not even any extra features beyond that. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 15:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - Per my comment above, along with what everyone else is saying. There's nothing to say beyond "it's bigger". That can be covered in this article. Sergecross73   msg me   15:58, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Simply being a bigger version of the 3DS is not enough for a separate article. There may have been a case if there were exclusive features to the remodel )(ie the GBASP's new shape, and backlighting, The DSi ability to download playable games) but that is not the case here. It should also be noted the ther DS lite was also merged because it was simply a smaller DS with a better lighting and a larger battery.--199.91.207.3 (talk) 17:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Since it's basically the same situation as with the DSi XL, I don't see why this system would get a new article. Anyways, as everyone else said, it can fit nicely in this article as the only thing to say is just that it's bigger. Likesorange (talk) 19:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose The upcoming sequel to Art Academy is created to be played on 3DS XL, not the 3DS. This is different, just like how the DSi was different than the original 2 games. There's going to be 3DS games with labels stating "3DS XL features". Pengmunk (talk) 20:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a source about these differences? Or labels? Everything I've read shows that the game is nothing but a bigger sized 3DS. It seems much more comparable to "DS to DS Lite" than "DS to DSi". As far as Art Academy goes, it's pretty easy to add that to this article in a "The 3DS XL was released on Date X with Art Academy pre-loaded on it." sentence. Sergecross73   msg me   20:43, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This was in the last North American Nintendo Direct as far as I know. There's gameplay footage of the stylus adding small details. This is showing off that there will be a larger canvas compared to the 3DS version. Pengmunk (talk) 01:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That does not mean that the system can only be played on the XL. The fact that the 3DS screens can be helpful for the game also does not in itself prove that the game was designed for the system anymore than the fact that the larger screen can be useful for Netflix movies proves that the Netflix app was created for the XL.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 03:31, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose Just like iPhone 4, you won't merge all the version of iPhones into one single page. iPad is only a larger version of iPhone, and it has a separate page by itself. [  Derek Leung  |  LM  ] 21:54, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreement I agree with this statement. Pengmunk (talk) 01:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually no one is suggesting a merge everything idea. For example, I don't see anyone even remotely suggesting merging the DSI article into the main DS article. Also trying to say that merging this to the 3DS article as being liked merging the Ipad to the Iphone is an absurd comparesion. They were marketed as two separate products. That would be more along the lines of trying to merge the 3DS into the DS article on the grounds that the 3DS is simply a DS with 3D effects, neither of which will happen.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 03:39, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * One is a smartphone, one is a tablet. Very different- terrible analogy. Sergecross73   msg me   17:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Just a revision of the same device without enough differences that justify a new article. --Fluffystar (talk) 23:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - Would fit nicely into existing article with its own sub-heading. Does not merit its own article. If independent notability is given I'm all for splitting it again, but not at this point. Cyan  Gardevoir  (used EDIT!) 00:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - I see no good reason why the XL version needs its own article. If there were some major difference (as is the case with DS vs. DSi) then there may be a case to be made, but as far as I can tell this isn't the case - the only meaningful difference is the size. <font face="sans-serif"> Alphathon  <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">/'æɫfə.θɒn/ ( talk ) 05:42, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - There isn't enough info about it or any major differences to warrant a seperate article. It's essentially the same device, just bigger. Eternal Meister TALK 22:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Seriously the 3ds xl has a bigger screen. that's really it! we should just merge the xl with the 3ds. BKman 74  22:47, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose The Nintendo 3ds and the 3ds xL are different. The 3ds xL is an updated version of the 3ds, so it must have a different page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.2.141.140 (talk) 17:59, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The DSi XL and the DS Lite are also updated versions (One bigger the other smaller) and both have been merged for years via consensus and I don`t see anyone arguing to restore them. Why should this be any different especially since this update appears to be no different than the DSi XL was to the DSi? This does not only apply to the DS. The Game Boy Pocket was also merged as well due to it being a slimmer gameboy. This is a also the case for other handhelds with all of the PlayStation Portable remodels except for the PSP Go (which unlike any other version could only play downloaded games) being merged to the main PSP page due to there not being enough differences between to systems to warrant a new article. Also a brief search shows that merges of this type are common for releases of consoles, the Ps2 slim being an example. In short, not every new version of a system needs a separate article and past precedence shows that it is not common practice either --174.93.167.177 (talk) 21:48, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The 3DS article is getting too long and longer will make the article becomes harder to read and takes longer to load. That's why the 3DS XL should have its own article. [  Derek Leung  |  LM  ] 20:00, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree since there is very little to say about the 3DS XL (that is not already here) other than when it was announced, the fact that it has a larger screen and potential sale figures. I find it hard to believe that this article is so long it can't handle what would likely amount to one small paragraph.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 21:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Question about the 3DS XL section
I noticed that after the 3DS XL was merged here the section on this page now has a separate infobox for that system. I personally don't think it is needed (The DSi XL section on the main DSi does not contain one) but I thought that it would be best to ask for more input before a removal was attempted.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 23:50, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I also noticed that a separate infobox is not included for the Game Boy Pocket, the Game Boy Light, or the Ps3 slim. This strongly indicates that separate infoboxes are not the norm in these cases.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 23:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with removing it. Everything listed within it is redundant to the first infobox. Sergecross73   msg me   02:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

3DS XL Stylus Length
Nintendo UK's official website says 96mm. Adding it in. Source: http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/3DS_XL/3DS_XL_en_GB/ --128.227.103.68 (talk) 07:03, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Advertising or unencyclopedic content
I'd hazard to say that the sources and content added here provide no encyclopedic value to the aritcle and are merely advertisements for downloading their product, free or not. Unless this was some noteworthy release, which it does not appear to be from my quick scan of the relevant content. In any case, I'll let the regular editors of this article decide it. Dreadstar ☥   17:13, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was very confused by this edit. You removed the release date, and the sources that verified it. Why exactly would this be a problem on an advertising grounds? They're legit websites (Game Informer is not only a reliable source, but even a paperback publication). The products in question aren't even being sold, they were given more as a "rebate" for early buyers of the system who bought at a higher price, but even if they were being sold, it's not like Game Informer would benefit, so it's not like they're promoting it to benefit themselves or something. Secondly, the sources verified the games on the list that were left in the article, something that should be sourced, so people don't include bogus games to the list. Sergecross73   msg me   17:54, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * For benefit from advertising by merely adding links to a WP article, see PageRank, Google bomb, Spam and even Robots exclusion standard, as for the rest, I leave it up to local consensus. The only reason I encountered this recent addition of material was during an investigation of vandalism on other articles by the editor who added the material.  Not that this was vandalism, but just to explain my involvement here.  Dreadstar  ☥   18:29, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm familiar with the concept of spamming, and Wikipedia policies regarding it, I just don't think they apply to this scenario. It's two third party sources verifying release dates and games released. The info should be in the article, and it should be sourced. Maybe the editor did some spamming elsewhere, but these additions seem to be legit. Sergecross73   msg me   19:00, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I also don't see how this could be an advertisement. Sourcing the release date of the ambassador program dates is certainly not advertising the sites covering the info and since the games being released on those dates were not being sold at that time (some later were sold separately but not on those dates) it is not an advertisement for Nintendo either. The only way I can see this being called an advertisement would be if one one were to argue that covering the ambassador program itself is an advertisement for Nintendo and should not be covered at all but that seems like a weak case since several reliable sources covered that program.--70.49.73.84 (talk) 04:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I also agree that even if the user who added this info has engaged in vandalism on other articles does not mean that everything that the user added is vandalism and I don't see any evidence that these edits in particular were vandalism.--70.49.73.84 (talk) 04:50, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

GPU clock speed
Since this seems to be the focus of a major content dispute, it's time to open discussion. Exactly what is the clock speed for the Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) in the Nintendo 3DS? After looking at the two provided sources in the infobox, along with articles that those two sources link to, my conclusion is that there is no official statement of the default clock speed of the processor.

The first source, from Tom's Guide references an article from 1UP, which provides the name of the chip and a number of stats. Some of those stats are based on a given clock speed of the processor (200 MHz). One can assume that is the normal clock speed for the selected processor, but remember that key word: assumption. The 1UP article does not say what the normal clock speed is for the PICA200 as installed in the Nintendo 3DS, so that's a dead-end.

Now let's move to the second source from the infobox, this time from Siliconera. This one seems to be the source of the biggest argument, because it makes the statement that the GPU is running at 400MHz. However, looking deeper, I don't think we can take this as very authoritative. To begin with, Siliconera gets its information from two other articles, from Eurogamer and from HCW. The Eurogamer article gives the polygons/second stats, but then states those figures "assume that the GPU is operating at its peak of 200MHz". (There's that word again: "assume".) They further state that because "Nintendo has a history of prioritising battery life, it wouldn't be surprising at all if the company downclocked the part, especially bearing in mind the relative low resolution of the screen". Again, they're making assumptions, although they do state that the chip's normal peak speed is 200MHz.

The author of the HCW article, however, goes in a completely different direction, stating that because " [the GPU] draws up to 1 mW per 1 MHz of clock speed, we can assume that the 3DS will probably have it clocked at a minimum of 400 MHz, since 400 mW isn’t very high at all for a 3D chip" (emphasis mine). Then, after a discussion of how much power is being used by a PlayStation Portable, the author makes this statement: "It isn’t unreasonable to assume most of that is going to 3D (certainly at least 400 mW) which puts it right in line with a 400 Mhz Pico 200 chip in the 3DS." Does something look familiar? That "assume" word again.

Every single one of these articles is making assumptions. None of them is stating the facts we're trying to attribute to them ... that is, none of them explicitly state the normal clock speed of the GPU within the Nintendo 3DS. Some state what earlier iterations of the chip have done, and some make assumptions of what they think it will do. But, none says what it is actually DOING.

-- McDoob AU  93  15:41, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks for looking so deeply into this, McDoob. I suppose I should have too, but I had just reverted edits that had edit summaries based on unreliable sources, like other wikis. Anyways, you're right, no one can confirm it, there's only a few sources speculating, so I believe it shouldn't be included at all unless Nintendo or a reliable source can nail it down for sure. Sergecross73   msg me   16:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Everybody makes mistakes, but not the same ones over and over again I think... But, anyway, like I said earlier, the most reliable source (that is not a reliable source because Wikipedia says so) we have right now is this one: http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Hardware. The guys over 3DBrew did meticulous tests to the machine and it all came down to those specs. Every single clock speed and tech spec just fits perfectly with the machine, and you will know why if you understand anything about Nintendo's hardware past and technical specs. But since you don't want to consider "hackers" (you know, those guys that know as much as Nintendo about their hardware, so that they can, you know, HACK into their systems) a reliable source, we'll just sit down alongside ignorance. That's nice. --Arkhandar (talk) 17:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, if you would like to enlighten the project as to just how reliable this particular source is, I would say open up a RfC on it, or bring it up at WP:RS/N or even here. Until then, I would suggest continuing a search for a truly reliable source and keeping one's grumblings ("sit down alongside ignorance") to oneself unless you're prepared to actually be proactive and change consensus as suggested by the three links provided here. -- McDoob  AU  93  17:56, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * On Wikipedia, one of the most important thing is to be able to verify information through reliable sources. If you read up on what that means, you'd see that things like random "Hackers" and "wikis" do not meet that definition because they fail WP:SPS. In general, information from random people, or places like wikis or messageboards, it's too easy to fake. I could just as easily go around saying I had done tests saying it was at a value of 100 or 5,000, and someone could use that as an argument for why it should be on the Wikipedia page. So that's why we rely on things like, for instance, an article at a website like IGN or GameSpot. Something that can't be faked or changed by anyone, and something that is written by a journalist and checked over by a editor. Sergecross73   msg me   18:01, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You really couldn't have come up with a better example for a reliable source, could you? IGN and Gamespot, really? And you call me biased. That's something to laugh at. Two of the most biased and controversial websites in the history of the video game industry should totally be much more of a reliable source than a wiki made solely out of hackers. Ok, you sir made my day. --Arkhandar (talk) 18:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I would interpret "biased and controversial" as being your opinion, which is of course yours to have and maintain to your heart's content. Whether you like it or not, IGN and Gamespot are considered reliable by definition when it comes to news and information. Their reviews on games are just that, their reviews and their opinions. However, since they are published/edited, their reviews do carry more weight than that of an individual, or even groups of individuals (such as on a web forum). Again, you've been given the methods for how to include your proposed source amongst those that are deemed reliable. Instead of venting and reverting other editors' work in contravention of WP:BRD, I would pursue those avenues, if I were you. -- McDoob  AU  93  18:22, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * At no point did anyone call you biased, nor have I used that word in this discussion at any point. Anyways, regardless of your personal feelings about those websites, there's clear WP:CONSENSUS, shown over at WP:VG/S that they are deemed useable sources on Wikipedia. Sergecross73   msg me   18:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say that it was a venting and reverting other editors' work because it wasn't my only fault that there was a revert cycle. What was a simple editing turned out to be a revert cycle because someone like you ("you" as in "you all", so that you won't start to make assumptions here) just take those websites for granted, not because you carefully analyse the information they contain, but because some other editors established them as reliable sources. Just because you say that they are that doesn't mean that they're always right (and this is argument is proof of that). Just like unreliable sources, just because they aren't completely reliable that doesn't mean that they're always wrong too. What I think is that some editors here on Wikipedia have too much pride and just want things the way they want (I'm not pointing fingers here, just a thought, since you'd make a serious accusation out of this without a doubt). Slow down, and don't make bold assumptions please. --Arkhandar (talk) 18:47, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No one is being "prideful" or "bold assumptions", we're just enforcing very basic concepts. Wikipedia is based off of the use of reliable sources and coming to WP:CONSENSUS to solve disagreements. If you can't handle these basic concepts, you're just going to keep finding yourself in arguments like this. What you keep complaining about is like going into a vegetarian store and complaining that there isn't any meat sold there. The complaint goes against the very foundation of what it is. Sergecross73   msg me   19:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Then Wikipedia sits on the very foundation of these basics, right on top of ignorance (since believe it or not, no "reliable source" is going to confirm 3DS GPU clock speeds anytime soon). So, be it. --Arkhandar (talk) 19:22, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want to change the foundations of Wikipedia, go for it. But that process doesn't start here, at the Nintendo 3DS talk page. You'd do that at a much higher level than a random article's talk page. Here is just where we discuss this particular article. Sergecross73   msg me   19:32, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * A desire for proof is not ignorance. On the contrary, it's the height of seeking to understand something. You've been told how you can change that within the system. Sergecross makes a very good analogy; if you want the vegetarian grocery to start selling meat, you encourage it to do so on its terms instead of hurling insults at it because it doesn't. The other option is to find another grocery store. The analogy applies here as well; if you can't work within a system, maybe it would be best if you found a system that did work the way you wanted it to. -- McDoob AU  93  19:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Excuse me but, what part of "So be it." didn't you understand? And I advise to continue discussing the "Yes/No templates in 8th Console Generation" problem in the eight generation talk page, instead of being here giving ramblings that won't get us anywhere. "A desire for proof is not ignorance.", you say? Well, you might not have caught it, but that's exactly why this whole argument started, because we were in search for the truth until you stopped because there was a line between what's "reliable" and what's not. To me, this argument is closed. You know what to do now. This isn't getting us anywhere. --Arkhandar (talk) 19:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, usually "So be it" isn't written by itself as it's own sentence, usually it's the second half of a sentence in response to a certain idea. (Like: If you aren't looking to use my sources, so be it.) By itself, it's hard to tell what exactly you're referring to. So, I guess it was that part. But I do agree that this is going no where, and it seems you've agreed to not add your sources, so I'm fine with ending the conversation too. Sergecross73   msg me   19:52, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I would concur ... all parties know how to proceed, and it's up to them how to continue from here. -- McDoob  AU  93  20:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

CPU
A majority of reports out there agree that the 3DS has some version of the ARM11 CPU. However, what is lacking is consensus on the CPU's specs and even model number. During one early teardown of a Japanese model fresh off the production line, model number 1048 0H was shown to be printed on the CPU. Yet, another teardown days later presumably from another Japanese model depicts a different model number - 1037 21. So, one has to ask, are we even talking about the model number here? If so, why the disparity? This questions the validity of the source cited in the comparison chart.

There's also the mention of the CPU being dual-core which isn't backed by that source. Can we get some clarification on this as well? — GoneIn60 (talk) 03:38, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * 3DBrew Hardware data sheet--Arkhandar (talk) 23:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a reliable source. Violates WP:SPS. Sergecross73   msg me   23:48, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Arkhandar, I didn't comment in the discussion above about 3DBrew, but I think you're going to keep running into opposition trying to use it as a source on Wikipedia. Accurate or not, it represents self-published material, which is generally not accepted. There can be exceptions like when the author is a verified expert in the field. 3DBrew, however, appears to be far from that. Anyone who registers can edit on that site. It also doesn't solve the "1048 0H" versus "1037 21" dilemma either. If you still want to use it, then I suggest posting about it at WP:RS/N to get a consensus. Unless there's a better source out there, we should keep the CPU listed as unknown. --GoneIn60 (talk) 04:05, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Re Circle Pad Pro 2012
in a Info it Says a Pad Controller Pro For The 3DS XL Later in 2012 Its Near End of 2012? Rename Later in 2013 or Possible of No Pro Pad For The XL? (LionelTheDeal (talk) 19:27, 6 December 2012 (UTC))
 * Can you reword that question? I don't follow... Sergecross73   msg me   19:39, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I imagine he's referring to a Circle Pad Pro for the XL which has (I guess) failed to materialise. Unless we have a source stating otherwise it should probably stay as is. As we know is that Nintendo *planned* to release one but we cannot speculate if they failed to do so..  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 19:42, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh I see now. Yeah, it would be speculative to add a new future year/date, but I suppose it could be reworded to say something more general, like "Future" or something, that omits a timeframe altogther. Sergecross73   msg me   19:58, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Nintendo Network
There seems to be some controversy over the article's section on the Nintendo Network, especially after its appearance on Wii U. One statement in the article states that Nintendo hasn't announced plans regarding expanding Nintendo Network IDs to the Nintendo 3DS (thus presenting a unified presence across all enabled consoles), while another editor keeps removing the statement. However, in doing so, they state that Nintendo has expressed an interest in bringing Network IDs to the 3DS, but provides no source to back that up. In my opinion, the statement is not necessary; this section describes the implementation of Nintendo Network as it currently stands on 3DS. Further, if a source is being demanded to indicate that Nintendo has said Network IDs are coming, then I think it's reasonable that we have a source indicating Nintendo hasn't made a statement (i.e., a reliable source has asked the question and gotten the standard "we don't comment on rumors and speculation"). Without that, we have original thought. Opinions? -- McDoob AU  93  00:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The absence of anything is not something that was never announced that can easily be sourced, if at all. If the user can present a usable source then perhaps something can be sorted out, but until then it should stay out..  Я ehevkor <FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT> 00:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The statement was removed once (by me), readded by the author, which was then removed again by you (McDoobAU93). That's where we currently stand. The statement reads, "It is not yet known whether Nintendo Network IDs will be accessible on the 3DS at any point.". From the articles I've seen, it's not a matter of if but it's a matter of when the feature will be on the 3DS. Here are just two examples: 1 and 2. The statement you and I removed makes it seem as if the feature may never be on the 3DS, but that would seem to contradict public consensus. Now if the Nintendo Network and Nintendo Network IDs are separate entities that can exist independently, then perhaps I'm mistaken. I was under the assumption they go hand-in-hand. --GoneIn60 (talk) 00:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * They don't go hand-in-hand on the 3DS; it has the NN but not NN IDs or accounts. Your first source only mentions the network, not IDs, and your second one is only speculative commentary about psossiblities. So there's no indication of IDs happening at this point. In order to prevent the reader from thinking NN IDs can be used on the 3DS, we need to make the statement that it does not support them currently. ArtistScientist (talk) 01:14, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, OK. Now that I've read up on the subject a bit more, I think I have a better understanding. I didn't realize you could purchase from eShop – a service obviously present on the 3DS – without an NN ID. So, your statement would make sense after all! However, I don't think it should exist as is. We should briefly describe what an NN ID is, and how the term describes a separate feature within the Nintendo Network. Otherwise, I could see other readers making the same mistake I did. --GoneIn60 (talk) 01:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure I agree with that, since the IDs have nothing to do with the 3DS at this point. There's a link at the beginning of the section connecting to the main article on Nintendo Network, which would provide the overall information about the service, including all its offerings for the consoles on which it appears. All that should be here are the services offered for 3DS. -- McDoob  AU  93  02:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * All I'm saying is that the statement ArtistScientist has proposed should not be included without some description of what an NN ID is and how it relates to NN as a whole. If it is decided to omit the statement altogether, then the point is moot. --GoneIn60 (talk) 03:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It's too easy to get the impression that Nintendo Network implies Nintendo Network accounts, like GoneIn60 did. We can't assume the reader will read further elsewhere, since this article is supposed to have all salient information about the 3DS. Since it's relevant to this article I think it's important to note in this section that, unlike the Wii U's system, the 3DS doesn't allow access to NN IDs. ArtistScientist (talk) 03:34, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

That's a valid point. One could also argue that the IDs are an integral part of Nintendo Network, or at least how it functions on the Wii U. Anyone familiar with that would want to know there's a difference that exists on the 3DS when reading the article. Imagine being able to use "some" of the services of Xbox Live on a particular device without the need to have a gamertag. It's a fictional example, of course, but if it were true, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect some mention of that in the device's article. You wouldn't just say the device features Xbox Live without also pointing out that some of its services aren't available and that the method of authentication is radically different. Also, the argument that a link to another article is enough doesn't sit well with WP:LINKSTYLE, which states we shouldn't "assume that readers will be able to access a link at all, as, for example, they might have printed an article and be reading the hard copy".

The 3DS features Nintendo Network, but the service doesn't come with all of its pieces intact. I'm convinced the distinction is relevant enough to be included. Other thoughts, objections, or concerns? --GoneIn60 (talk) 04:31, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * We may be thinking of this in reverse. The extent of Nintendo Network should be based on the system upon which it has more potential users. Right now, that's 3DS, as the installed base of Nintendo 3DS is far larger than the installed base of Wii U. So would that not mean that the standard set of features is based on Nintendo 3DS, and that Wii U represents an expansion of that set? Further, would it also mean that more users are aware of Nintendo Network from 3DS, where there's been no discussion of Network IDs, than from Wii U, where Network IDs are a new feature to the service? -- McDoob  AU  93  16:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I am against the "It is unknown whether or not" type wording, as it sounds speculative, and only invites further commentary of speculation. There's an unlimited number of things that are "unknown" about it. It's unknown if it will ever have a 6 inch screen, or if it will ever cost $50. People are going to clutter it with that sort of thoughtless speculation if we keep statements like this in. If it is really deemed that necessary to specify, I'd suggest just wording it along the lines of "Nintendo Network is compatible with the 3DS, but as of this time, NNID's are not." Sergecross73  msg me   16:27, 5 January 2013 (UTC)