Talk:Nintendo DS/Archive 2

Biased opinion in References
"Note: The information on the G4 website must be outdated, as one of the worst games on the system, "Zoo Keeper" is addressed on this site to be the most fun and addictive game on the DS."

Isn't this a little biased? Opinions? --Sovvy 14:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Reason for GB/GBC compatibility
As far as I know, the lack of compatibility for GB/GBC games is not due to the lack of a Z80 processor, as the GBA SP is able to easily emulate the processor. I've heard that it is actually due to the different voltage required for the legacy games, and adding support would lower the battery life unacceptably. I'll see if I can pull up some references. --Poiuyt Man talk 07:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Alright, after searching on Google for a while, I can't find any technical details on why exactly GB/GBC games are incompatible with the DS. Unless someone can provide a reference for the "lack of Z80-like processor" information, I'm removing it. --Poiuyt Man talk 15:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Really? I thought that the GBA had a Z-80 in it, not a software emulator. I've always thought the Z-80 was the issue, but I could be totally misinformed. Don't take my word for it. Ask some DSLinux dudes, they're in a position to know. --Carl 15:47, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The GB/GBC uses a 5v Z80 processor. It is because of both the lack of the Z80 as well as the lack of the 5v power output. It was also probably for marketing reasons along the lines of Nintendo not wanting to replace the GBA line with the DS line. This is also more shown by the fact that the DS doesnt support any GBA multiplayer functionality, and also by the release of the backlit SP and the Gameboy Micro. The GBA/SP does NOT emulate the Z80, it physically has the chip internally. There is a switch in the cart slot on GBA units to switch between GBC and GBA modes. -Darkain Dragoon 22:13, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I'll see if I can reference that FAQ in the article. --Poiuyt Man talk 03:41, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Games for Game Boy and Game Boy Color, such as Super Mario Land and Game & Watch Gallery do not fit in the Nintendo DS. --ZachREMOVETHISKudrna18@yahoo.com
 * Nor do they "fit" in the GBA, they stick out...
 * He meant that they fall out. CrossEyed7 17:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

So, is there any way to get the DS to play GB/GBC games? I mean, shouldn't it be as simple as mounting a z80 (the one found in the GBA is really tiny...) and an extra battery in the DS? (There should be plenty of room...) Maybe an on/on switch in the gamepak bay for detecting which processor needs to be activated? Please drop a note on my talk page if you reply, I might not remember to check back here, thanks :) --Wulf 06:09, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no way you could just place an extra chip into the DS and expect it to use it. There must be software programming built into the BIOS or at least a hardware switch that tell which processor to use when it boots up.(And then it still needs to understand how to access the hardware)


 * The GBA had more than just the Z80 to get backwards compatibility to work. I can put a Pentium3 into my PSP, but that won't mean anything if there is no software to interpret and manage the signals to and from the other hardware.  Liquidtenmillion 00:31, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Err... because GB games are old and crappy compared to GBA and DS and it's time to move on? Garglebutt / (talk) 06:29, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Not only is there the voltage difference, but also, the cartridge pinouts are different. The GBA address/data bus is multiplexed while the GBC bus isn't. This could add some complexity if they wanted to use emulation. 65.95.140.254 21:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

new colours
Two new colours in Australia, Mystic Pink and Cosmic Blue. See: http://www.nintendo.com.au/nintendo/news/index.php

Okay, what games should be in here?
Nintendo DS

Meteos, Yoshi Touch and Go, Bomberman, Pac N' Roll, and Advance Wars have been released in NA. I know that some of the above-listed haven't been released in Europe yet. So...what games should be in there?

DS and Surround Sound
I have noticed in several games like Mario 64DS and Kirby Canvas Curse that you can set it surround sound, it sounds like surrround sound but who does it do it with only 2 speakers? I'm not an expert on this kind of thing.


 * Taken from this site: When we listen to the sounds around us in the real world, we can determine with great accuracy where each individual sound source is. Our head and ears operate as a very sophisticated ‘directional acoustic antenna system’ [1], such that we are aware not only of the location and distance of the sound sources themselves, but also of the type of acoustic environment which surrounds us. When sound waves arrive at the head, they are modified acoustically in a directionally dependent manner by diffractive effects around the head and by interaction with the outer ears. Also, there is a ‘time-of-arrival’ difference between the ears, which the brain computes accurately.


 * As far as I understand it, virtual surround systems work by applying filters to simulate the refraction of sound waves caused by the shape of your head and ears, and by adding delays between the left and right channels. --Poiuyt Man talk 05:35, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

All the Pretty Colors
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all those depictions of every color variant of the DS is unnecessary. It's alright to display one or two different-colored models to illustrate the fact that the system comes in a variety of colors, but a gallery of every last one strikes me as a gross overuse of copyrighted material, not to mention a waste of space. As helpful as visual aids are, I think that a plain ol' list of the colors would probably suffice for this article's purposes. — Prizm (talk) 00:22, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * With the number of colors now rapidly increasing, I am inclined to agree with you. The pictures are taking up too much space and increase the load time for the page unnecessarily. --Poiuyt Man talk 03:12, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Maybe the images should be branched off into their own article then? Like a gallery article of the various colours with a small peice of infomation on each (such as their release dates in each region).  This would be a good way to keep the image gallery intact, and also improve upon it, without the clutter on the main DS page.  -Darkain Dragoon 03:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This isn't an option on Wikipedia, particularly with copyrighted images. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 04:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Alright; I've removed the image galleries. Make any further changes at your liesure. — Prizm (talk) 22:53, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

External Links discussion
I personally think that the external link for Nintendo DS Homebrew should point to instead of. DSDev.org is a much more recognized and respected homebrew community, and they also run the popular Efnet IRC channel #dsdev, which the majority of the DS homebrew community collaborate in. -Darkain Dragoon 01:26, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and change it, then. I don't see any reason why not. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 01:42, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Console infobox
I've just added the console infobox. Hope everyone like it. See this page for the discussion about the template creation. Jacoplane 23:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the Top-Selling game be Nintendogs instead of 64 DS. Nintendogs has been flying off the shelves. User:81.175.155.41 8.12.2005
 * 64 DS has sold more(barely) worldwide. Jedi6 00:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I do not believe that Best Friends is factored in, and it can be assumed that Nintendogs Best Friends has helped it pass SM64DS. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:45, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The Super Mario bundle is calculated in either. In about a week or less I should have the official numbers so I will find out then Jedi6 12:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the Super Mario 64 DS bundle was only in one region, and only in some stores, while the Nintendogs bundle was worldwide and in all stores. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, Who would bother changing 'DS' to 'PO', it's not even a good poop joke.DON'T worry I changed it and also updated the online section. YOU PEOPLE ARE LAZY!

Teal DS
Hears the Teal DS. &mdash; Hurricane Devon  ( Talk )  01:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Link Depository (revert)
Reverted edits by anonymous user (User:71.193.108.42) who added links despite the warning that the page was not a link depository. He/she also deleted that warning. -Parallel or Together? 05:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Wi-Fi Internet Connectivity
This section needs to be revised. It just sounds like an Ad, and doesn't have any specifics. --Nate3000 20:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

PDA?
Is there any truth in the rumours currently circulating regarding possible PDA functionality for DS, possibly even including the Palm OS? I think it would work, and be awesome. But, will it happen?

Here's a link to a page containing an early version of the rumour: http://www.pdastreet.com/articles/2005/3/2005-3-3-Nintendo-DS-PDA.html

Please drop a note on my talk page if you reply, I might forget to check back here... Thanks :)

Wulf 06:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I have yet to see an official PDA application, but there's a homebrew app called DSOrganize that does a lot of nice things. 65.95.140.254 22:01, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Which one is M?
In the software library, it says one game is rated M. Does anybody know which game that is? JQF 15:03, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Resident Evil: Deadly Silence. -- ReyBrujo 17:46, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

DS Redesign
I heard it has going to get a makeover with a more sleek body, more scratch resistant touch screen, etc. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alexzero77 (talk • contribs).
 * Only a rumor for now. Might happen someday. Jedi6 01:50, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It is still being planned. A retailer stated Nintendo would show the redesign on January 16, but it was only a rumour. -- ReyBrujo 01:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's here. Official Announcement It'll be called Nintendo DS Lite. WarChild 07:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's an image: publicity shot. I dunno if we can put this up in the article, so i'm not going to do so. Anyone feel confident enough to do it for me? --Decept404 09:07, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Trivia - Marketshare
Uhh, the percentages don't make any sense in any way, going by Wikipedia's sales numbers of the PSP and DS.

DS - 13 million PSP - 6 million

...how does that work out to 38 and 13 percent. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tilla (talk • contribs).
 * I would believe GBA (in all variations) and other handhelds hold the rest. -- ReyBrujo 04:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Interference?
Nintendo DS Sounds interesting, but is there any proof to this? Or perhaps some better info as to how to get/how to avoid DS interference? --BPM 19:09, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

DS first Nintendo system to sell out?
"No Nintendo system has ever sold out in Japan before." Is this true? I was under the impression that the Super Famicom sold out in Japan previously. From the Super Famicom article: "An instant success, Nintendo's initial shipment of 300,000 units quickly sold out." Raiknii 15:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't Nintendo themselves make that claim. If so I see no reason to doubt them. Jedi6 04:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know, that's why I'm asking. But I don't think they did... Or at least, I've never seen a mention of it. Maybe you are thinking of the fact that the DS is the first to reach 5 million units? Do you have any sources? --Raiknii 00:32, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Merge
I have suggested the DS Lite content be merged into this one since it is not really speculation anymore and the consoles will be same in most respects. This article also needs to be tightened up a bit as the list of game releases really belongs in a separate article. Garglebutt / (talk) 22:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

K1Bond007 07:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Against - it is fine for the DS Lite article to contain the basic info of the DS light and for this page to point to that page. It's common wikipractice to do this since it keeps the length of articles down. As far as the game releases i'll agree with that.  Seraphim  22:55, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose -for same reasons as above. Jedi6 03:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose -for all purposes listed above and the fact that it will have new features that the origional ds did not have (4 level light control).
 * Oppose -for same reasons as above, different model deserves different article, more differences may also become apparent following launch. Proteus IV 16:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Same as above reasons. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.123.53.3 (talk • contribs).
 * Support, the DS Lite is just a cosmetic variant of the original DS, with no major functional differences. With articles like PlayStation (PSOne), PlayStation 2 (slimline model) and Mega Drive (Mega Drive II etc.), the variants are all covered the original article. FredOrAlive 15:28, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops, spotted that PSOne did have it's own article, which also has a "merge this" banner though. The SNES doesn't have a seperate article for it's shrunken model however. The Gameboy Pocket and Light don't have seperate articles either, but the Advance variants do. It's all a bit random what does and doesn't qualify really... FredOrAlive 15:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Support, It seems like people just want an extra page for the DS Lite for the sake of having another page. When a new users to Wikipedia comes along and wants to find out about the Nintendo DS Lite, they will just put Nintendo DS in. Thus resulting in the wrong information being obtained. Moreover, there really isn't enough information about it to have as one seperate article. I think that a sub section on the Nintendo DS page is more than adequate, and you could have a redirectory to the main DS page if anyone types Nintendo DS Lite in. user:bendragonbrown47 20:33, 09 February 2006.
 * Oppose, common Wikipedia practice. See Game Boy Advance SP, Game Boy Micro etc.
 * Support, The Nintendo DS and the Nintendo DS Lite are two completely diffrent hardwares. My views are that they shouldn't be merged, but perhaps the N-DS page could mention the DS Lite more, so that people who are looking for the DS Lite are sure to find it.
 * Support, there is not enough to talk about the Nintendo DS to warrant its own article, it's just a shrunk down DS. The GBA variants however at the very least were radical departures from the GBA's original design. cave 13:54, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Against because Nintendo DS Lite is a lot different than the older version. Cabinet redesigned, firmware slighty different, button replaced, different AC adapter... Merging the two article mean a too much longer and difficult to read Nintendo DS article. --Olpus 14:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Game Releases
Move game releases in the Releases section into separate article, perhaps simply flagging them in List of Nintendo DS games
 * Oppose-Other articles have a list of launch titles and it is important information. Separating them into another article like PlayStation Portable launches isn't a bad idea. Jedi6 04:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I was proposing moving them elsewhere. I don't mind whether they get flagged in the List of Nintendo DS games or have a separate article.
 * Well I decided to be bold and have moved the Releases section to Nintendo DS launches ala the PSP. Garglebutt / (talk) 06:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Software Library
Remove titles from Software Library section since these are already in List of Nintendo DS games
 * Oppose-It is a good idea to give people an idea of some of the titles the DS offers. Jedi6 04:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose - there should be some "highlight" titles listed. Seraphim  05:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose, at the very least the killer apps (MKDS, ACWW, Nintendogs) should be listed. -- stillnotelf   has a talk page  05:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * There are many titles already mentioned in the body of the article. I am trying to make this article shorter and tighter as it is already rather long and likely to grow. The problem with a "best of" is that it is each person's opinion and, based on what I've seen of other lists, will grow steadily. Garglebutt / (talk) 06:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Using gamerankings.com it is easy to make a subjective list of the "best". Seraphim  22:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I added an editor's note stating to use the talk page before adding any titles. This should stop insane growth of the lists and if anyone adds a title without using the discussion page we can revert it. Jedi6 02:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've compared the lists to what is on gamerankings.com and they don't match based on the searches I did so I think we need to specify the criteria for ranking to avoid any confusion. I also don't see how unreleased products can be major titles since they may end up laying an egg. Garglebutt / (talk) 02:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Voice chat
Reggie Fils-Aime has confirmed that Metroid Prime Hunters will be the first game to feature voice chat before and after multiplayer matches (not during game, I guess they are afraid of lag issues). He also stated that 14.4m of DSs have been sold since its launch, and that US will see special kiosks where DS owner can download different games, which will stay in memory until the unit is turned off (like the ones already available in Japan). -- ReyBrujo 19:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

DS/DS Lite Merge

 * Strong Oppose I'm not even sure who's creating all these merge requests, but there's a pointless one for the GBA/SP/Micro pages as well. The DS Lite page has lots of info and the DS one is long enough, for a start. Tphi 14:21, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose I agree there should be no reason for it --Link25 04:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose Game Boy Advance SP is in its own article and Game Boy Micro too. These are different consoles. When more information becomes available then it will expand and then become too big for the Nintendo DS article. Not a good idea for merging, ever. -- Thorpe | talk  10:42, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose This is a ridiculous idea. These are separate consoles and the DS article is too long as it is. --User:Kelestar 12:56, 11 February 2006 (GMT)


 * Oppose I don't think so - I agree with those who decided to give the GBA SP and GBA Micro their own articles, DS Lite is a different console etc.


 * Strong Oppose - keep'em the way they are! Mr Beige 22:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose - GBA/SP/Micro have their own pages. Case settled. - SmeagolSquid 01:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo DS images/media
If anyone puts a new image/media into the article be sure to categorise it (Category:Nintendo DS media). Thanks. -- Thorpe | talk  15:45, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

No critiscims section
The ds has no critiscims(Sorry for incorrect spelling) section. Though there are no profound critiscims, there are stll complaints which are not noted in this article, such as the lack abilty to use multiplayer on gba games, which seems to be intentional, lack of compatibilty with gbc/gb games which though seems to be a hardware problem, it looks af if they purposely withdrew putting in the components. Also that many games seem to be revampes of exsisting titles albiet a few new additions (mario kart ds(Mario kart 64),Super Mario 64 ds(the title spells it out) Bomerman game and a few others ) Some games are not diffrent AT ALL from there game boy advance version (Star wars 3, Spiderman game and a few others) The fact that nintendo have not been able to cope with demand in japan. Also the fact that ds lite the new model of the ds is coming out under a year of the release of the original, which is a bit of insult as these new vesions of the originals do not come out untill after a good few years. The original ds unattarctive design. Also not all the colours are available everywhere, which is not fair to people in certain regions.

Please do not feel i am some anti-ds person, i am a happy owner. And i have brought it to discussion. And obviously the fact that some people may disagree strongly with the points stated. Thanks Daniel williams &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.129.137.117 (talk • contribs).


 * I've moved the interference info into a new criticisms section. Some of the criticisms you mention are design and marketing choices as much as anything. The decision to drop support for GBC and GB games is very reasonable considering how new this console is and how old those games are. I don't want my DS to have a gaping slot to handle older large format cartridges. Some of the third party games moved to DS will unsurprisingly not do much that is new with the DS and will be punished by poor sales. The redesign of the hardware was certainly quicker than the GBA to GBASP update but once again that is a marketing decision by Nintendo and I don't see anyone disadvantaged. The lack of colour choices I think is one of the nice quirks about Nintendo.


 * Criticisms should be more about the stylus falling out, or battery life failing, or screen becoming dull and scratched (ala iPod Nano). Not that I'm suggesting any of those are issues with the DS! Garglebutt / (talk) 23:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Interference is not a valid critisism of the ds, it's caused by it's use of the 802.11 spectrum which all wifi products use. It's a critisism of the 802.11 spec not the DS. I agree a critisism section should exist, but I removed it because we can't leave an empty section. The interference is caused by all the devices operating on the same 2.4ghz spectrum.  Seraphim  23:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The paragraph you removed has been in the article for ages and I only moved it to separate it from the main body. It is a reasonable criticism because I have my wireless laptop right next to my widescreen TV and get no interference so it is the implementation of wireless that is causing the problem. Garglebutt / (talk) 23:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Can you find a reference for it then? One other then the very small sony portable tv. One that shows it to be a widespread problem, that is significant enough to include in the article. Seraphim  04:23, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The critiscims section is gone completely. Aint wikipedia supposed to be about facts. Because i dont think nintendo ds is the perfect console. And the interference thing is a problem because i dont have any electronic product that wireless functions mess with my tv screen
 * Put your computer speakers right next to your tv screen. Seraphim  20:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have added a stub criticisms section with a few articles i found on wired. People can add more in the same format from official, verifiable sources.  Be sure to follow relevant wikipedia policies including WP:NOR and WP:CITE. Also, please Sign your posts on talk pages. --DDG 21:56, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I have standardized the criticisms sections between the PSP and DS articles, using reviews from G4TV, IGN, and Wired. Hopefully this will ameliorate concerns that one article is more critical of a device than another. Please maintain the ref/note format and cite all additions to the criticism section for either article. --DDG 18:40, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I have added a paragraph talking about how easily the touch screen is to be scratched. Alexzero77 16:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)Alexzero77
 * Please provide a reference. Jedi6  -(need help?)  19:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Virtual Boy Successor?
The trivia section refers to the DS as "sometimes considered by fans to be the successor of another Nintendo system, the Virtual Boy." This is "because both systems sport 3D graphics and other parts that make them different from the Game Boy systems."

I have never heard the DS and VB compared before, except in a derisive way (e.g. "2 screans? zomg next Virtua Boy, Nintendo d00med!") In addition, any next-gen Nintendo handheld that could produce 3D graphics would be considered "the successor to VB" under those rather vague criteria. Can anyone give a more substantive link between the two? Spencer F. 06:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You know, the Nintendo 64 sports 3D graphics and other parts that makes it different from a Game Boy.
 * Just saying. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 06:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I'm taking that paragraph out, unless there are objections. Spencer F. 00:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You have my support. Seraphim 00:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * We're talking about handhelds, here. Of course the frikkin N64 has them, or else we would kill Nintendo.  Also, the N64 and GCN are rather conventional, featuring proprietory media storage but nothing really radical.  The VB was supposed to be a huge change, a revolution, and it kind of did - a portable device that had 3D graphics, much different from the GB.  Likewise, the DS is a radical depature from the GBA, featuring two screen, Wi-Fi, and a touch screen. - Hbdragon88 22:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * VB was not a handheld. It's controller required 2 hands, you had to prop up the eyepiece on a table. Seraphim  23:20, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I asked about this question on the Virtual Boy talk page. What do you disgress of the answer posted by Jedi6? - Hbdragon88 23:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Virtual boy is a handheldbut the DS is more like the game and watch than the virtual boy Jedi6 02:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But it's still a handheld and the VB can be considered a spinoff of sorts from the console and handhelds (due to the very different designs), so I think the comparison is still valid. - Hbdragon88 03:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Comparing them both as third pillars would work. Jedi6 04:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Virtual boy was no more a handheld then the NES. It would be impossible to play the virtual boy as a handheld.  Also I don't see any possible way to call the DS a VB successor, or warrant the mention of the VB in this article.  VB was 3d with line graphics and no color.  DS has 2 screens, a touch screen, a microphone, is portable, has multiplayer games.  Saying that the DS is a VB successor does not belong in this article.  Seraphim  05:39, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Also i'd like to point out that at no time did nintendo ever call the virtual boy a "3rd Pillar". And it was marketed as "portable" not a hand-held unit. Seraphim  05:59, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that the DS is not a VB successor but the VB was a third pillar since it wasn't a successor of the Game boy or SNES. Jedi6 06:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * They never referred to it as a third pillar. If anything it was the sucessor to the SNES since it was rushed to release to keep people interested while the n64 was getting delayed. Seraphim  06:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because Nintendo doesn't state it doesn't make it false. It was a third video game system, not a replacement for anything.  Also we probably should continue this on the Virtual boy page Jedi6 06:12, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No it's relevant here since you are trying to include the fact that the DS is related to the VB in anyway, which is both un-verifiable and false. Seraphim  06:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Possible DS Hard drive
Check out this link for a supposed DS hard drive. However I haven't found any other corroborating sources for it. Do you think it's legit enough to be mentioned, or not? And if there is any more information, please post it. DS has sold enough to merit a device of this nature, but I've seen some pretty convincing fakes out their. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.21.157.72 (talk • contribs).
 * Looks like an amazing Play-Yan Clone. Wow that even excited me :p I just remembered, codejunkies is an official 3rd party perephrial manufacturer's website. I'm definatly for adding this to the article, however as usually, more people should have a chance to comment :) Good find :p  Seraphim  00:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks legit. I've added it. Garglebutt / (talk) 01:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Opera
Could someone clean up news about the web browser? I just wanted to be the first one to put it in :-b

DS TV Tuner
Both a version of Opera and a TV tuner are on the way for the DS. Should this (as well as "Opera DS") be listed under accessories? --BPM 18:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Most certaintly definately needs to be included. I think we should have an articles such as "non-gaming functions of the DS" which would include:

-pictochat -opera web browser -maybe the train your brain exercises -the MAX hard drive -Play-Yan -DS Tv tuner

I agree. There is a lack on this new info. Many sources say that the Opera browser will be launch in NA and will come with a RAM upgrade (A normal size GBA cart for the regular DS and a reduced size cart for the DS Lite). The TV tuner is highly unlikly. It only works with a Japanese TV service that we don't have overseas. :( Saddening isn't it? --Lord Mulcher 16:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Opinion
Who put their opinion of the DS as the very first sentence? I'm going to remove it unless anyone objects.

Maximum card size
Whoever keeps changing it from 1 GigaBIT to 1 GigaBYTE needs to stop. Resident Evil uses a 1 GigaBIT card, not 1 GigaBYTE [NDS] - Biohazard.Deadly.Silence.(J) Size: 104.67 MiB (109749539 Bytes) Sorry for linking to illegal material, but it appears nothing else can prove it. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.150.38.245 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 23 February 2006.


 * The official Nintendo web site says over 1 gigabit but I've included the equivalent MiB for clarity. Garglebutt / (talk) 05:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The largest game however is 128 megabytes, which is what the spec is meant to represent. I'd sign my post but I dont have a username —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.38.245 (talk • contribs)

Bunk, the largest DS game is Rub Rabbits, which clocks in at over 1000 megabits (1024, I believe). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.82.16.35 (talk • contribs)
 * Sounds great, change it in the article and make sure you provide your source. Seraphim  19:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1000 megabits is about 128KB. 1000 gigabits is about 128MB. Remember 8 bits in a byte. Garglebutt / (talk) 20:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Rub Rabbits is on the same size card as Resident Evil, 128 MB MS3FGX 20:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Although Nintendo currently only supports up to 128MB, the system can potentially support up to 4GB. There just aren't such large cartridges available. 65.95.140.254 22:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to get into a protracted edit war over units here. Mega and Giga will go the way of the dinosaur and are being replace by Mebi and Gigi. These new units remove the issue created by the storage industry with megabyte meaning 1,000,000 bytes (i.e. to make it look like you got more capacity) or 1,048,576 bytes. So MiB (short for mebibyte) is the preferred unambiguous unit for memory. Garglebutt / (talk) 21:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

"These new units remove the issue created by the storage industry with megabyte meaning 1,000,000 bytes"

Um, Megabyte has always been 1024 Kilobytes, which are 1024 bytes. We always use base 2 for digital, not base 10.


 * If you buy a 250 "Gigabyte" hard drive, you only get about 232 Gigabytes, as the manufacturers treat 1 Gigabyte as being 1,000,000,000 bytes when they're really 1,073,741,824. 65.95.140.254 22:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * When talking about storage 1MB - 1,000,000 bytes, the MiB change only applies to memory, not storage capacity. Seraphim  01:11, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Outselling rumors
It has been argued that the Nintendo DS has been beating the PSP in total sales. We need an answer to this, an actual researched answer, not a biased "No, DS is teh s0ck", or "Heal yeah DS is pwnz", as to avoid the edit - remove - edit - remove - edit - remove thing that has been going on.

For the last two months, the PSP has been occasionally been beating DS sales in Japan, due to high demand for the DS and the inability to pump out enough (they sold out, basically). In America, it is a close race, with the DS winning sometimes, and the PSP winning other times. We need an answer for this, and if nobody can come up with one, I suggest we just stick this in the rumors section.


 * Rumor? DS worldwide sales are around 4 million over the PSP. The Japanese LTD sales alone are enough to show the DS is ahead. MS3FGX 22:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey there isn't any doubt that the DS is outselling the PSP. Jedi6 04:54, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Tell that to Seriphim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.82.16.35 (talk • contribs)


 * ??? I'm well aware that the DS is outselling the PSP. Read the comments I made here on the PSP talk page. Seraphim  19:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)(Response - Oh, OK, sry.)

This line: "Recent figures have shown that Nintendo owns 83% of the worldwide hand-held market, with the Game Boy Advance holding 48%, and the DS at 35%." is in the article without a citation. If none is provided soon I will remove it. --DDG 19:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll remove it now it's completly untrue. Someone keeps trying to add that little section into the article. Seraphim  19:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ugh. Fanboys can be such a headache. --DDG 19:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * *shrug* i've removed that about... 8 times now or so, first few times I removed it because it was unreferenced, and he started adding in a reference that shows that during 1 week in japan the DS outsold the PSP, that doesn't support any of his claims. Seraphim  20:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms removal

 * Speaking of which, what happened to the "criticisms" section that I added after it was requested above? That was only two weeks ago, there was no further discussion on this page, but the entire section is missing from the current article.  Was there a discussion somewhere else to remove it, or was it just removed by fanboy vandals? --DDG 20:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I did some research and it was removed by User:ERW1980 at, with the simple edit summary "this is junk". I added this section because it was specifically requested above, and the content was discussed for about a week before it was actually added to the article.  Before I re-add the information to the article, does anyone have any specific changes to the content?  --DDG 20:59, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. My edit to this disappeared... I have readded the section although I note it has already been removed and reverted since. Judging by comments on User_talk:ERW1980 I suspect we will have a reversion war for a while. Garglebutt / (talk) 03:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I personally hate the criticism section. I mean, we already know that PictoChat isn't an online function and the AC:WW criticism should be moved to the game's page. If this is all true, then give me proof. (Plainnym 13:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC))

Qualification Needed on Sales Figure?
The introductory section notes "[a]s of the end of January more than 14.4 million Nintendo DS units had been sold." Should this statement be modified to make it clear that the number is the worldwide sales figure? Without such a change, some readers may assume that the number only represents American sales. The referenced commentary reads: "The DS has been a hit for the company, selling more than 14.4 million units worldwide since going on sale in November 2004."

Slightly unrelated, but I'm assuming the sales in the infobox are current as of 31 December 2005. With that assumption in mind, I'm adding 2006 Japanese hardware sales. --64.109.146.246 21:46, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Redundant Statements About Inspiring Developers
The introduction includes the lines:

"The name "DS" is short for both Dual Screen and Developer's System, the latter of which refers to the features of the handheld designed to encourage innovative gameplay ideas among developers."

and

"Nintendo hopes that the new features present in the machine will provoke unique game development, attract developers, and appeal to both older gamers and non-gamers alienated by normal input methods."

The Functionality section includes the line:

"Nintendo believes that the unit's unusual dual screen format will inspire creative game design by developers, both its own and third parties'."

I would suggest that the Functionality section should only describe the console's function without explaining the motivation for incorporating those functions, especially given that the introduction already notes that the DS's features were meant to encourage/provoke innovative/unique development. To not lose any information and make it clear, perhaps one of the introduction's statements could be modified to parenthetically note that one of the referenced features is the dual screen and that the attempt to motivate is for both Nintendo and third party developers.
 * Agreed. Dont suggest, Just Do It.(tm) No one will bite your head off. cave 15:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC) -UPDATE- Okay, I just got done with a major redundancy cleanup and reorganization. I don't think I wiped off anything significant, but if anyone feels differently please say so here. cave 23:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Project Nitro
During development, its code name was "Project Nitro" < this is somewhat misleading. The project wasn't "code named" Nitro, Nitro is the name of the developer units which are still in use today. --Darkain Dragoon 01:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually its both. Jedi6 02:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Screen Gap
What's the distance between the two screens in terms of absolute measurement, relative to screen size, and/or in missing pixels? I use Wikipedia for console & handheld tech errata all the time, and I'm kind of surprised nobody's contributed any information on this system's unique gap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.144.24 (talk • contribs)
 * Calculated 21mm & 96 pixels from the Phantom Hourglass preview videos. Anyone with DS programming experience or an actual DS to measure, feel free to correct me. [[User:Mindbleach|Mindbleach] 26 Mar 2006
 * The Ensata emulator places a gap between the two screens, meant to replicate the gap between the two screens of an actual DS. I don't have Ensata on this computer, so I can't tell you what the pixel size of the gap is. Sorry. --BPM 08:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

DS is short for...
I've removed the following sentence from the introduction: "The name "DS" is short for both Dual Screen and Developer's System." I think the "Developer's System" line was just used by Reggie when talking to a conference of developers to try and get them on side, I don't think it is supposed to be a real name for the device. (If people really want to refer to "Developer's System", then maybe it could be inserted further down the article - I don't think it should appear in the introduction.) Leaving just the text "DS is short for Dual Screen" looks wrong as "dual-screen" already appears in that paragraph, so I just removed the lot. Opinions welcome. Pelago 10:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * No Nintendo has officially stated DS is short for both. Jedi6  -(need help?)  20:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I still think having "Developer's System" in the first paragraph looks a bit ugly (it could be mentioned further down). It makes the DS sound a bit more like a console for programmers, like the gp2x, rather than for gamers. Pelago 13:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It may look ugly but that is what Nintendo says so we will have to keep it. Jedi6  -(need help?)  01:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested picture
If you have a DS, can you please take a picture after doing the Pictochat test and post it on that page. I would like a picture for each color. Thanks WP 09:12, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, mine's version 1, so it just freezes. I can try to get pic of my buddy's DS, it's one of the new red ones, so it's not version 1. - Grant 20:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Scratches on Touch Screen
People have been complaining (including me) about the DS touch screen being scratched easily by the official stylus that came with the unit. May someone add a segment about it in the "Critisism" section? Alexzero77 05:40, 27 March 2006 (UTC)Alexzero77

Well that's too bad it gets scratches...next time, get PsP. Or don't buy cheap sh*ts:P
 * &gt;x&lt;ino 15:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Be bold and add the section. My DS has two big scratches, one I did when I began playing Pokemon Dash (first time ever I used a touch screen, and seemly I pressed it a little too hard) and another while trying to clean one of the corners with the stylus (never do that). Once I learned how to use the stylus, I never had problems again. -- ReyBrujo 15:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * touch screens scratch easily, isn't that just normal? this issue is not on the same level as let's say the ipod nano's vulnerable screens, since those are not touch screens.


 * I thought PSPs had bigger problems with scratched screens... :> But yeah, scratched screens and whatnot is quite a common issues with any devices, isn't it? Though I guess it *could* be a bigger problem with DS since excitement during gameplay does raise the chance of getting scratches. :S --Mythril 12:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Merge with DS Download Play: Support or Oppose?

 * Support. The article as it is is pretty short, and I don't think that it can be expanded much at all. A different article could be created to list all DS Download Play capable games. - cave 20:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? I will revert your edits! Because the DS DOWNLOAD PLAY, is the main article of NINTENDO DS! --&gt;x&lt;ino 03:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - Xino/cave : the DS Download Play article had actual content at the time of cave's posting. It was later changed to just a redir.  I've reinstated it to being an article with content once again.  We should discuss here before changing the DS Download Play article. --Oscarthecat[[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|]] 08:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support - I support merging the DS Download Play article into Nintendo DS, as per cave's suggestion. --Oscarthecat[[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|]] 08:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Since it's a short article with no real expansion possibility in itself and is better suited as a section of the Nintendo DS article. Pegasus1138 Talk 04:51, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support The DS' ability to download and play games is a vital part ot its functionality as a self contained unit, which has the power to communicate with others. I also believe that the DS' article should also have a "DS Download station" section, as such a product has been implemented recntly in large numbers (http://www.nintendo.com/dsdownloadstation/), should be inculded in the DS' article. Anonymous
 * Oppose The DS article is already 48 KB in size. It can be expanded on the different types of demo koisks, where they are located, how they work, etc. WP 10:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

PLEASE NOTE: Nintendo has begun to install thicker screen protectors on their newer models, as well as the refurbished ones. Notice of the screen damage on earlier models shouldn't be required.

"American and European DS's will not be able to take advantage of Japanese demo and download kiosks."
Is it confirmed that this is a fact? I see no reason why American or European DS's wouldn't be able to download demos from those Kiosks, unless those kiosks in particular have software signed to only run on Japanese DS's. -- Grant 20:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, the download kiosks should be universally compatible with all systems. I do not believe that Nintendo uses different firmware for systems located in different countries - the default language setting is altered for the country each shipment is shipped to during the testing phase. Of course, this isn't fact, but it would make a lot more sense than loading different firmware into each batch of systems. And I know for a fact that you can run Japanese games on a Canadian DS, so I don't see how it would be different for the kiosks.
 * The only reason I can think of for why it wouldn't work is that American and European DS's are used in America and Europe. But I'd assume if you brought it to Japan, you'd be able to do it. The DS is region-free. Optichan 19:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Some stores in Norway has demo downloads, though some of the demos were in Japanese. I guess they imported it or so..? Probably it's not a matter of technology, but just that they don't want to employ download kiosks in America and Europe, for whatever reason... --Mythril 12:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Weirdness when playing GBA on DS
I was playing Pokemon Emerald on my DS. However, the actual game screen for the Pkmn game is smaller than the screen of the DS, so there is a black border around the game when i play all my GBA games on my DS. Also, when ever I enter a pkmn center, my screen is dark for a while. Anyone having this weirdness as well? KdogDS 21:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * GBA screens are smaller than DS screens, so that explains the border. I don't know about your screen going dark for a while, though. Cosmos 17:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * About the screen going dark, maybe it is because the catridge tries to check if there is a link with another GBA (the center is actually where you should be able to link, at least that was how in Pokemon Blue used to be). -- ReyBrujo 19:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the blank screen is a normal effect of Pokémon Emerald. It happens if you play on GBA, GBA SP, GBM, DS, or DSL. Because as you enter the Pokémon Center, it checks to see if a GBA Wireless Adapter is plugged in. Since the DS has an ARM7 processor built-in (the GBA processor), it can't tell the difference if it's on GBA or on DS. --BPM 21:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks. So I geuss there is nothing wrong. KdogDS 21:58, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Official Picture
WHY DA HELL IS THE FRONT PAGE ARTICLE: OFFICIAL NINTENDO DS CHANGED?!

Please change it back! And it even fitted wiki's background
 * &gt;x&lt;ino 01:54, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Unluckily, that is not possible. According to the first Wikipedia Fair Use guideline, Always use a more free alternative if one is available. While the official Nintendo DS image was nice, it was licensed under Fair Use. This one is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), which is more free than the Fair Use. You can, though, take a pic of your own DS, making it look as beautiful as possible, and replace this one. I would do it with mine, but it is just too used. -- ReyBrujo 02:06, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Successor: Nintendo DS Lite?
Should the DS Lite be listed as the DS's successor on the right-hand box? The two are sold alongside each other in Japan, and will likely be done so for a while at least in the USA and Europe. - Kelestar, 23:26 BST, 01 May 2006

I Have A Question
Earlier before, I read in the article that: if you send in your old DS to fix a fixed pixel, you will get a new one. Is this really true? I want send in my old DS because it has a fixed pixel. Forever Anonymous 03:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I had a friend send his DS in for a broken screen repair and he got the same one back fixed (he had an Intel sticker on the top cover which might have helped). I had a broken R button, and they actually gave me a brand new DS instead (my top cover had no sticker on it, but was scratched like crazy and the titanium color was worn away). I'm not sure, but it looks like customizing your DS by putting a sticker on it will ensure you get that one back, fixed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.252.9.90 (talk • contribs).

Small error
In design and technology section, sub section specifications - it states "The system is theoretically capable of rendering 120,000 triangles per second at 30fps" - this doesn't seem quite right - if the system is capable of rendering x triangles per second shouldn't that be indepedant of the frame rate?HappyVR 17:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe there are no specifications as to how many triangles can be rendered per second, and it is just an approximation. -- ReyBrujo 17:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not sure, but 120,000tri per sec / 30 frames per sec = 4000 tri per frame - so I would suggest changing: "The system is theoretically capable of rendering 120,000 triangles per second at 30fps. Unlike most 3D hardware, it has a limit on the number of triangles it can render as part of a single scene; this limit is somewhere in the region of 4000 triangles." to: "The system is theoretically capable of rendering 4,000 triangles per frame at 30fps. (120,000 triangles per second.)" A reference for this would be usefull though, I have assumed that the second part "Unlike most 3D hardware, it has a limit on the number of triangles it can render as part of a single scene" is incorrect - as far as I know 'all' 3d hardware has this or a similar limit to the 'number of triangles per frame'. I'm no expert on this system though so I would tend to leave a change to someone else.HappyVR 17:38, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe we could tag it with for a couple of weeks to see if someone can verify this information, and remove if nobody can do it. -- ReyBrujo 17:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Added that - I searched but didn't find much - it seems? the way 3d graphics are handled sets a limit on the amount of 3d data that can be used http://www.btinternet.com/~ahcox/DS/nds.pdf and the limit is 2048 triangles? this might not be right or the situation might be more complex?HappyVR

Sales
Shouldn't the Units Sold part of the infobox be updated to over 16 million? (George Harison's statement at E3) 210.8.103.196 06:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed, it should be. I believe he stated "more than 16 million" in the press conference. -- G8or8de posted on 24 May 2006

Me again... 16.73 million, check IGN's article, third paragraph. I'd update it myself but I'm not good with references/citations. 210.8.103.196 12:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism?
Name one thing today that hasn't been criticized. That's right, you can't. Everything is critisized! Why is there a section on here just for the criticism of the DS? It's not substancial enough to make a big fuss about it-so why is it here? --69.145.123.171 23:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Because criticism is common, as you say, it should not be dismissed. First, we must keep a neutral point of view in articles, thus we must state the good and the bad. And second, the casual reader arrives here wanting to learn more about the product. We can neither assume they know about the shortcomings of a Nintendo DS, nor we can hide the fact determined people don't like something. -- ReyBrujo 00:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, but have you seen the section? It has 2 parts, both of which are really insignificant compared to the DS's popularity. --69.145.123.171 00:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It needs some more information for sure. Feel free to add more. People who edit here may do that because they like the console, and are more interested in adding criticism to the PSP article instead. -- ReyBrujo 00:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally, I love the console. I just noticed that this and the PSP are the only two gaming systems (far as I can tell) that have 'criticism' sections. --69.145.123.171 01:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I also think the Criticism section needs to go. There's no "Praise" section. Stay neutral by stating the facts and letting the reader make his or her own opinion on the DS. --Poiuyt Man talk 07:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Some sort of criticism section needs to be retained. Perhaps the section could be expanded to become "Advantages, disadvantages and criticisms". Include instances where the DS has been awarded "hardware of the year" etc. --Oscarthecat[[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|]] 09:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but what other console (excluding the PSP) has a 'critisism' section? It's not very common you see them when it comes to gaming devices. I don't think this should be an exception. --69.145.123.171 21:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, at the moment, PlayStation Portable of course has a criticism section, as does Gizmondo, as does Game Boy Advance SP, as does PlayStation. The Xbox 360 + PlayStation 2 have similar "Technical difficulties" sections, the Game Boy Micro has a similar "Compatability issues" section.  Nintendo Virtual Boy has a rather harsh "Product failure" section (shame, for something so unusual). 3DO has a similarly harsh "Fallout" section. Atari Lynx has "Drawbacks" section. NES has "Hardware design flaws" section.  It's all about balance : highlight the great bits about each console, but be sure to mention the dodgy aspects too, in order to achieve a neutral point of view. Other console articles that lack a criticism section should have one added, if valid criticisms can be cited. --Oscarthecat[[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|]] 22:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That's just the thing, though. The DS has very few, if any, problems. The GameCube fails to meet the criteria for a "criticism" section because-while not as high of a seller as the PS2 or Xbox-it was fairly well built and didn't have any hardware flaws, control aspects, or big problems. The same goes for the DS. Nintendo was trying to get a simple, well built system. That's exactly what the did, as the system doesn't have any noteworthy flaws. Look at the criticism section on here for cripes sake, it's one sentance long! If that's the bulk of the problems, I doubt we should have it here. If it needs to be kept, why don't we take away to "criticism" heading and instead add that sentance about it being "clunky" to another area of the article? Merge it into the "gameplay aspect" or something. I just don't think that a single sentance about the structure of the system validates an entire section about the system's drawbacks. --69.145.123.171 22:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, your view is that the DS has very few if any problems. My view (and that of Wired and The Register) is that it's got a clunky form factor and the screen isn't as good as the PSP. So we need to keep criticism in there to accomodate a neutral point of view. As GameCube doesn't have a criticism section, I plan to go create one, if suitable criticism can be cited from other sources. --Oscarthecat[[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|]] 08:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I really don't think it belongs here, but if you want to keep it at least merge it with another section. Having one sentance about the "clunkiness" is hardly worth its own heading. --69.145.123.171 20:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

DS Abbreviation
On the beginning of the article, it says the DS stand for both Dual Screen and Developer's System, with a link to an FAQ page on Nintendo.com. However, the question was answered in a tacked-on mood, as it wasn't originally intended to be named "Dual Screen", but they did it anyways because so many people had assumed it to be so. In this light, wouldn't it be proper to either remove the "Dual Screen" part or even make a note that it's not the official/original/canon name? 71.195.85.110 02:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Reggie has referred to it on numerous occasions as the Dual Screen or at the very least acknoledged that as a regonized name for the system, I think without asking the marketing team, we have no way to know exactly how original/official that moniker is, but it is definitely accepted now. Xnolanx 08:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Praise Section?
I have removed the slanted POV praise section. This is an encyclopedia, not a place to post biased opinions. ZakuSage 16:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * How is the criticism section any different? The praise section mentioned the opinions of an IGN staff member, while the criticism section mentions the opinions of a Wired staff member. Both need to stay, or both need to go (I vote for the latter). --Poiuyt Man talk 04:40, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, as a solution to the whole praise/criticism mess, how about just moving the quotes/references to another appropriate section? For example, move concerns of the form factor to the Design section. --Poiuyt Man talk 04:44, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd agree to moving them to a seperate section, but in any case having praise --or criticism section-- is not encyclopedia information. It's opinion. If anyone is going to move them, please do the same for the PSP article as well. --[[User:ZakuSage|ZakuSage 14:45, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * As long as it's not POV it good. But seeing as writing a "criticism" and "praise" section without POV is not easy. Havok (T/C/c) 14:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not do what they do in the movie articles and have a 'reaction' section that points out both views on the system?--69.145.123.171 03:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

DS Phat?
As far as my knowledge spreads, with the DS Lite now in most gamers' knowledge, the original DS has earned the not-so-respectable label: the DS Phat. I was wondering whether such information should be included in the article. --Zooba 18:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If you are looking to include information such as this, please cite references. I own a DS and known multiple others who own DS' or are "gamers" at least, and I've never heard that term before. Xnolanx 18:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * A cursory Google search turns up 358 hits. Something tells me that this is a private protologism. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Seen on Joystiq here: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/06/03/video-games-live-starts-damn-in-3-hours/ I'll be the tall dork with a Joystiq shirt on and a now super-lame DS Phat.
 * And here: http://eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?forum_id=1&thread_id=51923&start=60 Although lighter than a DS Phat --Zooba 19:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Two blogs? Not really evidence of wide usage. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Another here: http://forum.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/search.php?mode=results
 * Latest Japanese Hardware Sales: 22-28 May


 * DS Lite: 285,025
 * PSP: 27,227
 * PS2: 19,798
 * GBA SP: 6,652
 * Phat DS: 4,126
 * Game Boy Micro: 2,013
 * Xbox 360: 1,242
 * GameCube: 1,116
 * GBA: 44
 * Xbox: 8 ...


 * That I'm sure came from another source itself. And hey, all slang starts small - after all, it has to start somewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zooba (talk • contribs).
 * So, we have a blog entry and two forum posts. Not good. Wait until it becomes a real meme. -- ReyBrujo 02:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)