Talk:Niobe

Untitled
Niobe was also the name of the German training-ship commanded by the famous Felix von Luckner. He probably made the choice of this name to remember the name of the Russian ship used by him, in 1894 (or 1897 ?), aged of thirteen, to escape from his family.

Add-on by bosun@mipnet.fr

Disambiguation Page
Why don't we move the "Other Uses" section to a disambiguation page? Tom 20:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Good idea - Done. I'm thinking the second mythological Niobe should be moved to a stub page and be added to disambiguation too.  - Ravenous 14:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Obscure vandalism ??
I don't believe that Niobe.jpg is an oil on canvas painting by a French painter who died over a hundred years ago. --Ben Best 06:37, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Fixed it. - Ravenous 15:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

A "biography"
The mythic theme of Niobe has been given a forthright but unreferenced preamble making her "historical", placing her, not in Lydia but in Phrygia, giving her a date at the time of the Trojan War. I see no way to edit this to make it better. Can anyone help? See the following. --Wetman (talk) 14:47, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

A Parahistorical Niobe
I have commented in red italics on some of the problems with the following text creating a para-historical Niobe (Wetman (talk) 15:01, 29 April 2008 (UTC))

According to... Niobe was the daughter of the Anatolian local ruler Tantalus, Tantalus is associated with Lydia in the texts called the "Phrygian", although he ruled not in the traditional heartland of Phrygia but in its western extremities,  in an area around the Gulf of İzmir, centered particularly in the Mount Sipylus this modern geography is anachronistic and its neighboring Mount Yamanlar (sometimes also called "the western Sipylus") near the modern-day cities of İzmir and Manisa, presumably around the 12th century BC. unsourced historical "date" following myth is already treated She married Amphion of Thebes and the Greek mythology acted as a vehicle for her historical record. Since her homeland was the cradle where Lydia was to emerge as a state several centuries after her, an important number of sources none identified view her as a "proto-Lydian". what would "proto" mean in this context? Niobe was the sister of Pelops, who gave his name to the Peloponnese.

Making Niobe historical and thus "real" in this manner creates confusions that are not met with in the literature nor in the sources. --Wetman (talk) 15:01, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Cool! I will add the necessary improvements. Let's not mount rush more! Cretanforever (talk) 17:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I should be able to develop this article in the coming days and source it seriously. I will start by reverting it to the previous version if no objections. Cretanforever (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A plain report of the literary texts, with references, will be a great improvement. Any published articles on Niobe as a mythic theme or historical personage might be summarised too. --Wetman (talk) 08:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Disamibguation
I suggest we clear the other figures who carried the same name from this article and move them to a page proper for each, and include them in Niobe (disambiguation), with this article treating only "the" Niobe. Cretanforever (talk) 14:04, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Would article-ettes serve the Wikipedia reader? This is a readers' service we're building here. --Wetman (talk) 05:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Other Niobes in Greek mythology
Aedon was the queen of Thebes who attempted to kill the son of her rival, Niobe, also her sister-in-law. and accidentally killed her own daughter, Itylus instead. The gods changed her into a nightingale.

Another Niobe was a daughter of Phoroneus, and the first mortal woman to attract the love of the god Zeus. This Niobe was the mother, by Zeus, of Argus, legendary founder of the Greek city of Argos. Another child named Pelasgus is sometimes mentioned as the twin of Argus. This Niobe lived many generations before Niobe, daughter of Tantalus.


 * Would article-ettes serve the Wikipedia reader? This is a readers' service we're building here. Are these two Niobes to be deleted entirely? --Wetman (talk) 05:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry I saw your message only now. They are not deleted. Information on these other Niobes, arguably of more minor importance, is available in the disambiguation page Niobe (disambiguation). It's always tricky when you have namesakes whose storylines not always clear. Truth or consequences. Cretanforever (talk) 14:04, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * As these "other" Niobes are both linked to primordial humankind, brief references to their existence are part of the encyclopedic Niobe story.--Wetman (talk) 14:36, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Element niobium
The element niobium is named after Niobe. Should this be mentioned somewhere on the page? Bbi5291 (talk) 23:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think a reference on the niobium page to here would be appropriate, but don't think this needs to reference the element. If the naming of the element was somehow tied to the story of niobe in some creative way, it might make more sense, but if any old mythological name was choosen and it just happened to be niobe in this case, than all they share is a name.  In which case, a reference on the disambiguation page with all the other things named after niobe is probably sufficient.  - Ravenous (talk) 07:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Niobium was named as such, as an extension of the inspiration which led to the earlier naming of tantalum as such by the Swede Anders Gustaf Ekeberg, which is explained, by a personal site,, as a combination of an analogy to Tantalus-Pelops-Niobe legends (accounts); "Tantalus was condemned to hell, standing to his neck in water. But the water sank when he stooped to drink. Ta2O5 does not take in water, nor dissolve in acids."; and pure POV; "Furthermore, Ekeberg had found the task of finding the element tantalizing."

German scientist Heinrich Rose later argued that there were two different elements in the tantalite sample, and named them after children of Tantalus: niobium and pelopium. I agree that it's worth adding a paragraph containing this information. I will remove, if no objections, the depiction exlusively of Niobids in this page, with a "See also" section directing there, and add a gallery artistic of artistic work which depict Niobe self. Cretanforever (talk) 21:28, 5 January 2009 (UTC) We already have the sections "Niobe in literature" and "Niobe in art" in the article; whether or not we should also have a section titled "Niobe in chemistry" or "Niobe in physics" (reminding also of an eventual "Niobe in geography" here)is a discussion that may be built around commons sense. I would come in favor of adding to a link to the article Niobium though, and some remarks on the element's etymology is already found there. (Remarks above refer to the article as it was prior to 1 August 2009) Cretanforever (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2009 (UTC) Cretanforever (talk) 17:10, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There is now a tacit reference to Niobium under the section Related Terms. Some of the fact tags added lately could be superfluous though, like whether or not there was a character of the same in two movies. Cretanforever (talk) 12:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Image
Was there a reasoning behind the change of image placement? Sommer's work, moved upwards from a neat galley below, dates from the early 20th century whereas "The Weeping Rock" ia associated with Niobe since ancient times and should precede. See Cybele for a similar order in the placement of images. The way it is is like starting an article on Davy Crockett with an image of Billy Bob Thornton. Cretanforever (talk) 07:44, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Cretanforever. I moved it up as the first image in an article is typically a representation of the subject. If you feel having the sculpture there is misleading feel free to move it back. -- Neil N    talk to me  12:23, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I did. Thanks. Cretanforever (talk) 17:47, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Bulfinch's circumstantial anecdote
Bulfinch's chatty and circumstantial 19th-century parlor anecdote is quoted extensively. Its only modern interest is in the sources Bulfinch used for these details. Like other assertions, they should be footnoted at the relevant places.--Wetman (talk) 14:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is largely based on Ovid's account. That it was better adapted to the modern day reader and offered an interesting introduction for reader with command of the English language was my impression. Before deletion, I will seek if a better balance may be created among all classical sources around the central theme. Regards. Cretanforever (talk) 07:56, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Niobe's pride is not really the "central theme", though. The focus is always far more on her grief than that she sort of deserved it. Furius (talk) 11:57, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

"Long unknown statue at Houdini's grave site"
Hi, this is an account I use for anonymous contributors. The edits you made in the article Niobe based on a blog, the way you placed your paragraph and the pictures show a lack of respect for the work of previous contributors. That wikipedia is willing to receive such input is not my problem but Jimbo Wales's and perhaps some other people's but for the page in question I intent to shift them once again to the discussion page. Regards. Pembeana (talk) 14:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

"One of the most recent discoveries, long unsolved, was just uncovered by magicians and escape artists and Directors of The Houdini Museum in Scranton, Dorothy Dietrich and Dick Brookz as the long unknown statue at Houdini's grave site."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Magicusb

Arts
Newcomer - please do not bite. I hope that this is an appropriate way to contact an Editor.

I came to the page looking for the version used in Steffani's opera 'Niobe, regina di Tebe'but found no reference.

I appreciate that the full info I was looking for more properly belongs on that page but perhaps some mention on this one would be good.

Many thanks,

Mogranny (talk) 07:52, 24 March 2014 (UTC)mogranny