Talk:Nitsana Darshan-Leitner

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This article should be saved. I will work on it to make it meet standards. Seth J. Frantzman (talk) 18:02, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

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An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

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Reverting of a major issue: The husband of Nitsana Darsha-Leitner is the convicted terrorist Craig (Aviel) Leitner
All of Nitsana's activities are focused on what she claims to be "protection of Israel against terror activities". The section on Early Life, Education and Family should therefore include the dramatic fact that she has been married ever since to a convicted terrorist who was jailed for 30 months for his terror activity together with the terrorist Yehuda Richter and others, all of them newcomers from America who were members of the Meir Kahane extreme racist movement "Kach" - which was also a political party that was banned from the Israeli elections. Leitner fled from Israeli law and was extradited by the U.S. That fact that Darsha-Leitner, the anti-terrorism fighter is married to a convicted terrorist is extremely relevant to that part of the article. It was thus introduced with proper reference to the article, but was reverted twice by the claim that the article "is not about her husband" while her husband works for that very organization which is led by Darshan-Leitner. This is a request to editors to make a decisionרסטיניאק (talk) 19:34, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

There are a few problems with this. One is that on Wikipedia it is common practice not to label people "terrorist' - we don't do it for Patrick Argüello or Dalal Mughrabi] or [[Khalil al-Wazir or Leila Khaled, so why do it here? Second, this appears to be your opinion, that t is a relevant  and "dramatic" fact - but do sources treat it that way? Of mot, then the article should not, either. Kenosha Forever (talk) 02:19, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

If a terrorist is not labeled as such, it is indeed a problem. Certainly those mentioned should be labeled as such. If Leila Khaled's partner would have consecrated his/her lifetime to combat against terrorism while living with a convicted terrorist - that would indeed constitute a Drama worth mention. The claim "this is your personal opinion" is not supported by the long piece of NYT on March 8, 1984, by the NYT correspondent in Israel David Shipler : "In the last few days, the police have arrested seven Jews in what officials call a breakthrough in the hunt for Jewish terrorist cells operating against Arabs. Three of the suspects, Israeli Jews, are being held on suspicion of having scaled the eastern wall of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem on Jan. 27 and trying to plant explosives at the holiest Moslem shrines in the city, Al Aksa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock. The intruders ran away when discovered by Moslem guards. A police spokesman said that two of the three re-enacted the attempt at dawn today as police television cameras recorded the graphic confession. The other four, all American Jews, are suspected of which prompted a wide search by police. The authorities have not released the names of those being held. '''But Rabbi Meir Kahane, leader of the Jewish Defense League and the right-wing Kach Movement,announced at a news conference Tuesday that the four who are being held in the attack on the bus, all in their early 20s, were members of the league and of Kach who immigrated to Israel within the last five years. He identified them as Yehudah Richter and Levi Chazan from Los Angeles and Meir Liebowitz and Craig Leitner of New York City Rabbi Kahane said he had no advance knowledge of the shooting. He said that whoever committed the act was sanctifying the name of God. He said his movement would provide legal counsel for the four suspects. Is NYT ( in addition to AP News) a reliable enough source that "treats it that way?" I believe that it is.רסטיניאק (talk) 09:08, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * There are WP:BLP and WP:DUE concerns Does majority of sources when discuss Nitsana mention her husband past? --Shrike (talk) 10:52, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The main issue is the fact that a person whose only claim to fame is her fight against terrorism, employs in her organization a terrorist who is also her husband. Would we accept that a fighter against rapes will be married to a person accused of rape ? that is much worse than the case of the shoemaker whose son walks barefoot. רסטיניאק (talk) 11:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * , No the main issue it the Wiki policies and how the WP:RS sources treat the subject please read WP:DUE, WP:BLP and WP:ONUS Shrike (talk) 11:03, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Shrike, if NYT and AP are not reliable sources, I wonder what are reliable sources. And if a fighter against terror mobilizes a terrorist who is also her husband to work for her anti-terror organization, this is IMO required to be a properly referenced fact on the page of that person. Aviel-Craig Leitner, the terrorist who was involved in the shooting of a Palestinian bus and wounding of 7 Palestinian workers, in setting fire to the HQ of a Palestinian journal which could burn people alive, who fled police investigations and was extradited to Israel by the US government, who was sentenced to 30 months in Jail, is employed by Nitsana Darshan-Leitner his wife in her so-called anti-terror organization "Shurat Hadin" which boasts to be a major fighter against anti-Israeli terrorism including Palestinian terrorism.  The objection to mentioning that fact on the page of the terrorist's wife is a classical case of lack of neutrality, and it remains to be examined why is that objection ?  All the references to  WP:DUE, WP:BLP and WP:ONUS are therefore useless and misleadingרסטיניאק (talk) 05:51, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * , Please give link to those sources they should mention Nitsana of course as she is the topic of the article Shrike (talk) 06:21, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * , you say " this is IMO required " - and that is the key, it is indeed "your opinion", but we write based on what sources say, not our opinion. And to be clear, the sources you need to bring aren't those that detail what Leitner did, but sources that make the point that you this is important - that Nitsana is married to a convicted terrorist, while working to combat terrorism in the courts. Kenosha Forever (talk) 14:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

I was invited to comment, which is probably WP:CANVASS, but that person's not going to like what I have to say anyway. So the choices in this edit war are between "racist terrorist" and "husband? what husband?"? And in the meantime nobody has bothered to find better sources. For example, the Middle East Eye article says it got the guilty plea information from a "A report about Leitner’s conviction published in the Hebrew newspaper Maariv in 1986". I haven't been able to find any other coverage of the conviction, but plenty about his extradition (since that was in the U.S.). Maariv, however, has its entire archives free online (via NLI), and might be searchable, so someone with grasp of Hebrew should do so. Meanwhile, the [AP on his U.S. arrest, his failed appeal on Justia, and apparently his little gang claimed responsibility for a range of destruction and violence under the name "TNT" or "Terror K-Neged Terror" (terror against terror). The final straw for authorities, who had been tracking them, was the 13 March 1984 Ramallah bus shooting -- apparently six were injured. The gang never killed anyone, but they certainly didn't seem to lack intent, and these weren't teenagers, but adults when they emigrated to Israel and did all this (ibid, also AP).

And while I agree with not moralizing in a BLP, the gang he was in pretty much calls itself a terrorist group on the tin, so at the very least we can say he was a former member of a terrorist cell that were followers of Kahane (again, ibid, and the book cites its own sources if you want to go deeper). I mean, obviously the article isn't about this guy, but he was instrumental in something very serious involving the very political issues he associates professionally and personally with, that in large part being the notable figure (and org) that is the subject of this article. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:00, 17 July 2022 (UTC)