Talk:Niue/Archive 1

Wifi nation?
This article from April 2011 debates the claims of wifi being freely available everywhere around the island. The article quotes an |interview with Niue's Premier, Toke Talagi, where he mentions -

"The internet services are unreliable, they’re not available throughout the island, and if you do want internet services connected up to your home you have to pay for it. Some people as I understand it have been paying up to $3,000 [$2,400] just for the installation of the wifi.We’re never quite certain about what that 'free' internet services is about, because we’ve had to pay."

There seem to be no internet articles referencing this issue which are more recent than this. Maybe a mention regarding this issue could be put in the article if anyone has any recent information about it. --Saatwik Katiha (talk) 03:29, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

nationhood
What about the Vatican? Isn't it self-governing? The Vatican has about 800 inhabitants (see List of countries by population) --zeno 07:53 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)

Niue doesn't have UN membership, it doesn't have diplomatic relations with most of the world, they don't have their own currency or military... I think it is officially considered a territory of New Zealand rather than an independent state by much of the world. I think of it as an independent state, but it's certainly arguable. Perhaps the line about it not being considered its own nation should be re-added with a caveat. --Chowbok The status of Niue is officially known as "self government state in free association with New Zealand, the Cook Islands is also on the same status.sioneholof
 * I agree that it should probably be further elaborated, but I'm not shure that the point about military and currency is really relevant. Iceland has no military, and Ecuador uses the American dollar. The most relevant point that I see is its tight connection to New Zealand and not being part of the UN, the first point is mentioned further down in the text and so should perhaps the second, so the new sentence needn't be long. --Dittaeva 10:47, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it's relevant, although I agree with the rest of what you said. Niue is an odd case. It represents itself in international sports that are usually only represented by nations (rather than territories on their own), and does have some standing on its own. Ambivalenthysteria 04:57, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I just corrected the entry on Premier on the point of Niue being a territory or not. There is no doubt that it is dependent on NZ, but any more than the Cook Islands which are also in Free Association? NZ doesn't call it a territory - statements by their ministers I've read suggest they regard it as a nation that is dependent on them. Look to see what was said after the cyclone on Niue. I've never heard a representative of any south pacific nation, Australia or NZ call Niue anything except a soverign nation. Plenty of nations today have limited means and questionable true independence - see Nauru, or the Cook Islands. Robertbrockway 21:40, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I just noted that Niue no longer is listed in the list of countries by population density page. That might or might not mean that CIA no longer recognizes Niue as a country... Just to fuel the discussion. ;-) himasaram 20:11 11 May 2005 (CET)
 * I just checked and the CIA still lists Niue as an independent country. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ne.html Robertbrockway 18:34, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Look again. It doesn't and it never has.  Self-governing, like Cook Islands, but not fully sovereign/independent.DLinth (talk) 18:51, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It's fully independent sovereign state - according to Niue&NZ and basically everybody else.
 * I don't know what do you mean by "self-governing instead of independent", but from the first link above see "responsibilities of New Zealand for external affairs and defence do not confer on the New Zealand Government any rights of control. Full legislative and executive power, whether in these fields or in others, are vested in the legislature and Government of Niue. Where the New Zealand Government exercises its responsibilities in respect of external affairs and defence, it does so in effect on the delegated authority of the Niue Government." - Niue is fully independent sovereign state, conducting its own foreign relations and defense. Because of limited resources its government asks sometimes for assistance from NZ - just like Liechtenstein, Nauru, San Marino, Palau and other small states ask their "close" countries for assistance. Japinderum (talk) 12:45, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The country is ruled by the 'Queen in right of New Zealand' represented by the Governor-General of New-Zealand. That makes it's status as a separate sovereign nation problematic I think. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 16:20, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Use of .nu top-level domain
It might be worth adding that .nu is one of the ccTLDs, like .tv, that is used by Western businesses to create distinctive domain names. "Nu" means "now" in Dutch and several Scandinavian languages. Imagine if you could register "buy.this.product.now" as a valid domain name!

There was a feauture story in today's (29 March 2005) print version of the Wall Street Journal about this very issue. A very long, detailed and interesting article. Niue is now purportedly the only country in the world whose citizens all have free wireless Internet access Sioneholof 21:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)This is a false claim just to attract international recognition and support, as up to today (23 April 2007) still less than 50 percent of the villages in Niue have WiFi access.

Except hardly any of them have computers... Sioneholof 21:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I am Niuean (person of Niue descent)and live in Niue, we do have computers, about 80 percent of the labour force works in the govt where they have access to computers, some homes also have computers.

Most of what being claimed under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.nu is not true but trying to paint a picture of a major achievement made. It may sound true to those who don't live in Niue, some wifi hot spots in some of the villages, and few PCs donated to a lucky few but not the whole country. While the era where decolonisation was a way foward in giving back to national Governments control of their countries, this scenario prove to be one way colonisation is still occuring between powerful countries and little and weaker nations, where the use of the power of technology for influence and control. Sioneholof (talk) 04:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The claim of first WiFi Nation may have been achieved some years later around 2012, there was many other factors affecting this goal, there is friction between some Government entities, like Telecom Niue refusing to mount the WiFi equipment on their antennas, despite the Government approval. There is also some limitation of a free WiFi service, many WiFi hot spots causes many to go online thus causing overload on the system, especially the download fans, then Telecom Niue start offering ADSL in late 2015 after they complete the installation of the fibre optic ring around Niue, one policy 16GB cost NZD$120 per month have offer some relief especially for home far away from the hot spots. Then this year, in mid 2016, the then said free WiFi Internet Service operated by the Niue Internet Users Society, changed to become a user pay starting with NZD$50 per month unlimited operated by Kaniu of Native Broadband, a business subsidiary of RockEt Systems owned and operated by Niuean technology entrepreneur Mr Emani Lui, who was the same contractor for maintaining the Free WiFi service. Apologies for the long update. Sioneholof (talk) 21:35, 13 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Further Down the Track: Free wireless is only limited to a few hotspots in Niue and not to the whole country. This "Free" status tends to preclude any consumer leverage normally enjoyed in a commercial relationship although technical support is reasonable efficient. There are many who own computers in Niue and I would hazard a guess that it is among the highest computer ownership per capita in the world. Indeed this situation is increasing creating concern that the internet service will deteriorate because the cost of bandwith (free to IUSN to a limit at present) will out-strip .nu domain name sales which are required for the free maintenance of the service on Niue. Mark Cross, 2nd August 2006. 7.30am Niue Time
 * Dear Mark Cross, just sign your name by striking the tilde key four times, and the time and date will be added automatically. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 04:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

About the name
Niue translates to "Coconut, Yes" from to words in the language, "Niu" meaning Coconut and "E" meaning yes

Niue most certainly does not mean "new" in Dutch. The official website [] says the name of the island means: "Behold! The coconut!". Maybe someone with a little more writing skill should add this. iclemens 15:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The assertion wasn't that Niue means now, but that nu (from .nu) does. There's a whole wikipedia page on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.nu Marthiemoo (talk) 01:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Alofi
Alofi is also the name of an uninhabitated island near (east FUTUNA), a good example of the manner that polynesian travellers had to give to places names of already known places they knew (by going there or legend)... if Haymet rocks would exist at the position you give they would be right south of Rarotonga, very far east of Niue, maybe somebody can give a better position where these rocks were seen (?)

Demographics of Niue
I suggest that we merge Demographics of Niue into this article as that page has almost no content. MyNameIsNotBob 11:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * No objections here. Ambi 23:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Since there has been no objection within the past two years, I have done the merger. Yours sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 04:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Niue and radioactivity
Not sure what has happened here. I put in some of the NZ past research on this, but I think it has been deleted. I suggest it is so unique that it is worth a mention. this was not a spoof - I am responsible for at least 3 of the papers on the subject during my career at DSIR. I can give the references if necessary. For the moment I'll hold off, but I would like some response from other members in this forum.

- Dr Neil Whitehead


 * It seems that your contribution was a victim of friendly fire when some previous vandalism was reverted. I'll add it back in. If you can add references, that would be great. -- Avenue 11:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've come across one relevant paper, which I've linked to in that section. -- Avenue 13:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

There seems to be confusion over whether there is Uranium on Niue or not in this article. Under "Geography" it says "There is almost no Uranium", whereas under "Economy" it says "... suggested that Niue might have the world's largest deposit of uranium. This was later realised as an insider trading matter at the Australia Stock Exchange.[clarify] It has permission to drill on the island to confirm geological data that suggest the presence of a very large deposit" Please let me know, I'd hate to waste my time...! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.242.134.205 (talk • contribs)


 * I hadn't noticed the later mention. It seems to refer to some shady dealings by an Australian mining company. I've expanded that passage, and cited sources where you can find further detail. -- Avenue (talk) 12:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

History
Since Cook was rebuffed, there obviously were people on the island before that interaction. Can't some-one add some pre-European history? Kdammers 04:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Commonwealth
Is Niue not part of the Comonwealth- with or without New Zealand? (if so and as part of NZ it should be listed on the Commonwealth Countries page) [unsigned comment]
 * Niue is not a member in its own right, since it's under New Zealand sovereignty. So it's a part of the Commonwealth through New Zealand. Aridd (talk) 13:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject
In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Polynesia at WikiProject Council/Proposals whose scope would include Niue. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:18, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Christianity
The language regarding the spread of Christianity on Niue doesn't seem very encyclopedic. Perhaps someone with a good knowledge of Niuean history could remove some of the overt religious tones from that paragraph and clean up the grammar, as well. 76.171.233.9 09:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Name of Niue
Per above, the name Niue means "Behold! A coconut!" (quite possibly the most surprising name I've seen in some time). I think it should be added, but it's not clear from what language it comes, a necessary piece of information if it's to be included on the page. Also see and  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kelvinc (talk • contribs) 09:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Niuean Scouting
Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Niuean? Thanks! Chris 05:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC) done, thanks!

Just wondering
Was there never an independence movement on Niue? New Babylon 2 (talk) 20:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Independence was one of the options included in the 1974 referendum put foward to the Niue people, the majority chosen self-government in free association with New Zealand, total integration with New Zealand is the other option of the three options. Self-government in free association with New Zealand tend to have many interpretations, at the present New Zealand is using its aid assistance programme to Niue as an instrument to influent and directly involve with the internal affairs of a sovereign nation.  Niue is finding it difficult to govern under this type of environment, and feeling disapponited and frustrated.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sioneholof (talk • contribs) 20:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

So-you could say some people would prefer independence,in the curent state of things ? New Babylon 2 (talk) 19:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The current state of delivering aid to Niue by New Zealand can be regarded as the modern day colonialism, its legality should be challenged in the International Court of Law. The banner of good government is in fact "bad government" because in some situation like this it tend to impose and dictate values on another country thus ignoring their rights, freedoms and rights to self-determination and judgement whom the "self-government in free association" is based on.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sioneholof (talk • contribs) 21:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Under the terms of the self-government agreement, Niue can declare full indendence unilaterally if it chooses to do so. Free association means exactly that. Niueans voted against independence in 1974 primarily for economic reasons, and because they were worried about losing the right to move freely to New Zealand (as New Zealand citizens, they currently have unrestricted immigration rights in NZ). The general feeling seems to be that they would lose more than they would gain by becoming independent. Similarly, Tokelau is resisting any suggestion of independence from New Zealand. To answer your question, I've never heard of a Niuean independence movement, and I don't think there is one. Rather the reverse; Niue is more keen on remaining an NZ dependency than NZ is on keeping it. Aridd (talk) 13:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Technology
Story on BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7576573.stm) about every child in Niue being given a One Laptop Per Child computer by the government, and that in 2003 it became the first territory to offer free wifi to the whole population. Worthy of a section? Marthiemoo (talk) 02:01, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd put it under a new section called Educational system and hope somebody can add more about the schools, etc., on the island. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 04:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Villages under water?
I'm wondering: are there villages IN the pacific? --Lkl ★ 16:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point. I've replaced the map with one from the CIA World Factbook. -- Avenue (talk) 00:21, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Blog entry about "Star Wars" currency
This blog entry is reporting on "Tiny South Pacific island to accept Star Wars coins as real money."

There is no mention of this on the http://www.gov.nu Niue government's web site.

The New Zealand Mint is a private company and it appears they do not normally manufacture "legal tender" for any country. Their web site (http://www.nzmint.com/) claims the Star Wars coins will be legal tender for Niue Island.

For now we have two unreliable sources. I reverted someone's attempt to add mention of this to this article. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 20:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. It's not like they're actually going to be used as currency. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 05:32, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Commonwealth
It's been decided on the talk page of List of sovereign states that Niue isn't part of New Zealand. Niue is not a member of the Commonwealth, so why do we have Queen Elizabeth II as one of it's leaders?  [  Soffredo  ]   20:32, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Wrong on all your points. Niue is part of the Realm of New Zealand.  Queen Elizabeth II is head of state of the entire Realm.  Niue is part of the Commonwealth by virtue of is association with New Zealand.  Queen Elizabeth II has executive authority over Niue.  TDL (talk) 21:05, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 *  [  Soffredo  ]   23:42, 9 September 2013 (UTC)}}

country or territory
Hello User:Lewnwdc77, although I agree that Niue is not a sovereign state, but a subset of New Zealand, it is a political-territorial entity that has come close to being one, as it's association with New Zealand is entirely voluntary and it has the right to engage in diplomatic relations with sovereign states (without being recognized as such itself). This is a contentious issue on Wikipedia. I'm however not sure that the word country is the problem here. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 16:02, 7 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The crux here is to understand the difference between New Zealand and the Realm of New Zealand. Nuie's status is clearly not that of a territory.  compare with Tokelau which is. Andrewgprout (talk) 17:30, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Category?
Are we sure that NewYorkActuary's update from May 20 makes sense? Niue fits in the Category, I think. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 18:54, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


 * After review, I find 's of Countries in Oceania to have been correct because Niue is already in the category Former British colonies and protectorates in Oceania‎, which is a subcategory of Former colonies in Oceania‎, which is a subcategory of Dependent territories in Oceania‎, which is a subcategory of Countries in Oceania (the category he or she removed). Obviously this is a pretty long chain and couldn't be expressed in the edit summary.


 * For what it's worth, I had to verify this with intuition and luck. If anyone reading this knows any good tips for more quickly verifying subcategorical relationships, please chime in! —jameslucas ▄▄▄ ▄ ▄▄▄ ▄▄▄ ▄  02:08, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the answer, it's awesone that you took the time to check. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 03:27, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Maps
Both of the two maps presently at the top of the article page, "Location of Niue" and "The location of Niue in the West Pacific" are not only entirely useless, but appear to be self-contradictory in supposedly showing the location of the island with respect to New Zealand.

Only once you scroll down to the Geography section is there a useful map showing villages on the island, and the surrounding reefs. Then on this Talk page, in the section "Villages under water?", is another good map showing what appear to be several tiny islets north of the island, but not identified as such, that was supposedly posted to the main article page in April 2009, but in fact does not appear on that page at all.

What is really needed at the top of the article is a map that clearly shows both New Zealand and Niue, and their geographical relationship to each other, as well as other land areas that would be included in an appropriately proportioned rectangular area. Such a map must surely be freely available from either Alofi or Wellington governmental offices.

There is a mention of Niue in today's New York Times "Monday Briefing", referencing an article in The Guardian, saying "Niue, a tiny island about a three-and-a-half-hour flight from Auckland with a population of 1,600 people, has a new inhabitant: a duck named Trevor." Milkunderwood (talk) 23:39, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

skin cancer
"According to the World Health Organization, residents are evidently very susceptible to skin cancer. In 2002 Niue reported 2,482 deaths per 100,000 people – far higher than any other country.[38]"

So, in one year skin cancer killed more people than actually lived there? Seems like a How to Lie with Statistics scenario. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:25, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course this is the fraction of deaths per head of population. I reworded that sentence to make that clearer. Ross Finlayson (talk) 22:57, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, that figure looks insanely high. It would mean that about 20 Niueans die of skin cancer each year.  The number is correct in the referenced article, but I'm guessing that the article is incorrect.  Does anyone have more recent statistics?  (Is there a way in Wikipedia to tag a reference as "dubious"?) Ross Finlayson (talk) 23:29, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

"other languages"
What are these "other languages"? Other indigenous languages? Cantonese and Arabic? Esperanto?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:03, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Population / density
The given population density of 13.9 ppl/mi² suggests a total population of 1403 in a nation whose area is 100.95 mi² -- much less that the population figures given. ManlyMatt (talk) 03:43, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I have fixed this. Verbcatcher (talk) 14:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
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