Talk:Nocturnal enuresis/Archive

Comment
this following text contributed from an IP with a history of vandalism needs confirmation from a responsible adult:
 * ''It can persist in to many later years of life, even to age of 16 and beyond. One prescription drug used to combat it is Imipramine, which is also a very mild Wetman 04:11, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well it says in the Imipramine article. How ironic the person who wrote that comment ' s name is "Wetman" LOL. 69.124.119.27 22:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Discussion on Bedwetting alarm
This discussion has now been ceased, since the tag for mergeto|bedwetting has been removed from the article.

Incidentally, I can also confirm the above information concerning Imipramine, since I was prescribed it as a child to assist with bedwetting, prior to the licencing (in my home country) of Desmopressin.

Thor Malmjursson 15:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC) Thor's Pet Yack

Neurosurgery
Hey, I recently heard an interesting piece on NPR radio about a neurosurgeon using brain surgery to treat bed-wetting. I'm having a hard time finding it on Google, though. Does anybody with more knowledge want to add that info to the "treatments" section? JianLi 00:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Bedwetting Is A Symptom Of A Sleep Disorder
In most all cases bedwetting is derived from an inherited oxygen deprived sleep disorder.The bedwetter dives immediately into stage 4 sleep and remains there most all night. Stage 4 sleep is oxygen deprived sleep and very unhealthy if not combined with the other three stages of sleep. 71.3.144.158 14:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

We have recently discovered a treatment clinic in Florida that treats the sleep disorder and eliminates the bedwetting symptom..see www.drybed.com. 71.3.144.158 14:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Not assertions or external link appropriate for the article. www.drybed.com seem to make 2 claims for bed wetting - firstly that it is mostly an inhereted sleep disorder and secondly that it is essential due to inability to wake up due to ADD/ADHD like problems, and so they seem to treat bed wetting as per ADD/ADHD.
 * The problems with these propositions are of verification and citing. One clinic's claims do not make for general medical consensus. Where is proof that bed wetting is mostly an inherited disorder (vs a possible weak tendency) ? Where is proof that bed wetting is usually a feature of ADD/ADHD ? The two propositions might also be combined to suggest that ADD/ADHD is also mostly an inhereted disorder - again where is proof of this ?
 * Now your situation may very well involve looking more generally at your child, and identification of ADD/ADHD may well have been an astute assessment, but that does not prove so in majority of cases nor this clinic's bold claims.
 * Bed wetting might be seen as the human "norm" - we surely are not suggesting that new-born babies wet their nappies at night because of an immature brain sleep center causing partial oxygen deprevation at night ? No, reflex bladder emptying is normal. What is "unnatural" is that we train our children when to go to the toilet. In this one might compare the not disimilar training we impart upon our cats & dogs from the very different behaviour of our horses & cows who will urinate/defaecate without regard for where they are. David Ruben Talk 02:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Objectivity
This article Looks as if taken straight from a Brochure. Someone ( not me ) needs to change the uses of "her" to "the child", or something similar. It needs to take on an unbiased view. I don't feel up to doing it myself. But anybody who reads this can see it's an ad.
 * I don't think the word Dry should be used to describe not wetting the bed. It definitely makes the article sound as if it were a brochure--Klaser 19:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * For the record, if a pronoun were used to describe the child, it would have to be he unless the child's gender is specific. Sexist or not, using the masculine pronoun when referring to somebody of unspecified gender is still the rule in English grammar. Jeff Silvers 12:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Spam
Some people are spamming the article severely with irrelevant information and links. Wikipedia just has to describe the condition and doesn't need to have links to any websites for bedwetting alarms, tablets or snake oils. (It can keep a link to a respectable kids health organisation, though). It doesn't have to either offer sympathy or other advice to bedwetters; there are plenty of other websites for that. A quick Google search for "bedwetting" would do fine for most people. 58.178.84.26 01:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Plus, I'm thinking of deleting the "Myths and Common Misconceptions about Bedwetting" section per my above reasons. 58.178.84.26 02:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I also removed all links except the one I found most respectable (most people have different opinions to me, so if you find a website that's better than the one I left, feel free to discuss it on my talk page) and added a template. 58.178.84.26 01:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

List your comments below this line if you disagree. 58.178.84.26 02:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

(list comments here)

Uncited material moved here
Removed uncited material.


 * This Triad, developed in 1963, has been called into question by other researchers. These researchers state that secondary enuresis (bedwetting returning after a child learns to stay dry) is considered more important in this regard than primary.

"Researchers"? Which researchers, what research? Feel free to reinstate if proper citations are found. -- Joie de Vivre 22:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Joie... sorry... we both seem to have been editing at the same time. I added some significant new content.


 * Your comment about this item seems fair... feel free to remove it, or I will try to make the change later this evening. Wshallwshall 22:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I actually reverted your edit because you had reverted my edit, but I re-reverted when I saw your comment. Now it's your big change plus my original move of the unsourced content.  w00t.  Joie de Vivre 01:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits
I reverted the big recent change by Wshallwshall because it seems very POV in nature. Naming the very first section "Emotional impact", and focusing initially on the feelings of children who wet the bed reads much more like a brochure for parents dealing with bedwetting, than an encyclopedia article on the topic. The older version first gives information about causes, prevalence, and then other related issues such as emotional impact. Could we discuss how to better include the content from the change in a way that still sounds encyclopedic? I think it could easily be included. Joie de Vivre 17:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Joie... let me take a look and see what I can do. I'll make some changes and post a revision... maybe you can tweak it if you think it still sounds too much like a brochure? Wshallwshall 17:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure. Frankly I think it would be fine if you made your edits but just kept the ordering the same or similar (with causes and prevalence coming before treatment and social issues).  Be careful of WP:NPOV.  Thanks for taking the time to discuss courteously!  Joie de Vivre 18:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Changes to Bedwetting Rates by 172.207.162.170
I have rolled back the changes from this IP address, which increased the bedwetting rates for six and seven year olds. The studies I'm looking at do not support the change. If you wish to change the rates, please respond with references that explain the reason. Wshallwshall 14:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Bedwetting
I know this isn't a good source for medical advice and I should see a GP. However, I was just wondering: I am 20 and last night wet the bed. Not once before, even when I was a small boy, did I wet the boy. I am under a lot of stress at the moment because of mounting debts. Does anyone know if this could be a reason? The stress part in the article is inconclusive. Thanks, and no, this isn't vandalism. 82.163.72.2 22:49, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Misleading Treatment
The section on diaper use leading to more urination is misleading. It was due to negligence on the retard's part and does not coorelate with sleeping at all. I will be removing this section. Klichka 09:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Additionally that test is almost worthless since it is only tested on a single individual rather than multiple people. Klichka 21:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Renominated
I've made the changes requested by the previous reviewer and other improvements to the page. I'm going to resubmit this for GA. Wshallwshall (talk) 19:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Archived old content
I've archived the old discussions, but left the GA Fail in preparation for resubmitting.Wshallwshall (talk) 18:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

GA fail
This article has a lot of references, but they aren't in the right format. A good way to remedy this would be to use tags. This allows reader to see what the link they're clicking on leads to. With these tags, you can also add author, title, and publisher information to make the article more verifiable. The article also needs to be rewritten into prose. Right now it reads like a list. Wrad (talk) 01:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts for the GA nominator

 * The sections of this article should be changed to conform with the normal sections listed in WP:MEDMOS. For example, "Medical definitions: primary vs. secondary enuresis" should be simply called "Classification."
 * There should be no space between the end of a sentence and its reference (or the previous reference). It should look like this.[1][2]  It should not look like this. [2] [3]  I have fixed most of these for you, but there are still a couple left to be fixed.
 * The article says the same things repeatedly in a couple of places. It might be better to have a single subsection titled "Punishment increases bedwetting" and put all of the information in a single place, instead of scattering it throughout the article.
 * There are too many external links. Please pick the very best and delete all of the rest.  I would be happy to see this list reduced to four good links -- perhaps two for professionals and two for parents.  Twenty-one external links is definitely more than this article needs.  Also, do not list in the external links section any website that is listed as a reference in the footnotes.

Overall, I'm not convinced that this article is entirely ready for GA status. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Response
Thanks for the help with the spaces and for the feedback! Those are all good points. Thanks for letting me know about eh MEDMOS stuff... I haven't seen until now. Putting the article into that format will take some time, so I guess I'll remove the nomination for now.

Thanks again for taking the time to help with the article! Wshallwshall (talk) 00:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Edit?
I suspect that the editor who added "Pediatricians normally recommend the child stay in diapers until this age prior to medicated treatment for bed-wetting" meant to specify at night. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Response
WhatamIdoing... thanks for watching out for this article. Regarding the diapers addition, I removed it and requested a citation because my research doesn't support the statement. see: and item #6 at Wshallwshall (talk) 21:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Despite the assertions of Tarbox et alli to the contrary, I'm unconvinced that the first source, which presents the experience of a single 29-year-old person with mental retardation, really says anything useful about the typical four year old who wets the bed a couple of times a week. Given a choice between diapers and medication (the false choice that this edit proposes), I still suspect that the typical pediatrician would prefer diapers.  (I'm willing to agree that the best option is "neither of the above," but that's not always practical in the real world.)  WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:38, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Frequency of bedwetting section's percentages
The sentence: "As can be seen from the numbers above, 5% to 10% of bedwetting children will not outgrow the problem, leaving 0.5% to 1% of adults still dealing with bedwetting.[3]" does not make sense. Based on the percentages in the table, 0.5% to 1% of children will not outgrow the problem, not 5% to 10%. Is there another explanation for the percentages as they currently exist? Imogenne (talk) 05:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

length
Just wondering, why are the articles relating to pee so long? Seems kinda odd. . . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lea the Firebender (talk • contribs) 02:58, 21 September 2008 (UTC)