Talk:Noel Desmond Gray/Archive 1

Defamation accusations
There have been attempts to charcater assasinate my late father both before he died and now after his passing. I am going to deffend his repuattion and with the help of his collegues will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did do what his backgound claims.

Dam you who are trying to defame a dead man!

Nutter
found this page doing s search about my grandfather noel gray. the guy writing the page is a nutter, all the james bond stuff and no idea about spelling. jeremy

Who the hell is Jeremy?

Noel Gray has not now nore ever has had a GRADNSON NAMED JERREMY! This is a pathetic attempt to gain standing to edit this page, he knows nothing about Noel Gray and should be exposed as the pretender that he is.
 * Gee, I wonder how many people in the world have had the last name Gray? How many people have had the first name Noel? Wow, both names are/were extremely common in English speaking countries. Could it be possible for there to be more than one person that ended up with both of these common names? No, of course not. The only Noel Gray ever to exist is the one who was involved with Telectronics and had a son named Chris who doesn't have a child named Jeremy. What was I thinking?—WAvegetarian&bull;(talk) 22:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

secret mission
Why have you deleted the paras about Noel Grays "Secret mision" in WW2 that is supported by your refernce number 13? This information is in the public domain and the website refrenced says you suplied the information ! Why is this info "out of context" as you said ? Jeremy Gray144.131.12.107 03:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The wording added is an attempt by someone to exagerate the incident in Noel Gray's war-time experiences by using the plural missions, when there was only one secret mission. If you check the edit you will se this. There has been a concerted attempt to discredit Noel Gray here in Australia and claims for his pioneering work in founding Telectronics. If you look at the talk page on the Telectronics page you will see the discussion. This discussion commences with the biased assertion that Noel Gray passed on fantacies about his past to his son and that he is deluded and is attempting to promote them. This is made by someone who knows nothing of Noel Gray before he met him in 1961. There are still alive today people who remeber him and speak very highly of him. So be warned the truth is about and it will in the end be revealed.

Do you mean theres gonna be divine intervention?144.131.12.107 08:07, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Whatever

maybe only one secret mission but wy did you delete the details as its on the public record by your reference 13, if the entry you put on eth dunn site is true. also you say he has patents about printed circuits. i know about printed circuts and a google says they were ivented in 1906 and america released all the details in 1948 so you must have secrets in australia we dont know about jeremy gray60.230.82.36 03:58, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Armey School of Radio Physics Watson Bay
nothing on google about this only there was CSIR research place at Watson bay from 1936 to 1944Jeremy Gray58.166.30.222 06:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

There was an Army school of Radio Physics at Watsons Bay in Sydney The School of RP as it was affectioately known. They even wrote songs about the Shool of RP. You could also call it the Radio Physics Department Section from Noel Gray's Military record.

I ask again who the hell is Jerremy Gray? Google searches are not the whole trulte and nothing but the truth.

Some google truth 4U www.science.org.au/academy/memoirs/bowen.htm#introduction58.166.30.222 04:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Noel Gray certianly knew of Dr Bowen and his word at the CSIR Radio Physics Department but I fail to see how this refference dismisses the Army School of Radio Physics which was headed by Colonel John Moore and which instalation trained a group of RADAR specialists for th Army. You are obviously embarking on some sort of agenda designed to dispute this biographical entry and I would strongl advise yo to bugger off! Because you do not know what you are talking about!

The Army School of Radio Physics was a secret operation during the War and the students were taught the secret of the strap magnetron. i doubt that any search of any records will disclose this

How dare you vandalise this page about Noel Gray someone you know nothing about! Desecration of a war veteran just how low are you prepared to go to make your point ?

No one could go loewer than you. No im not related to you but my name is jeremy Gray and i would not want to be realeted to you wanker because people like you that hide identity to libel other people are te loewest form of life on earth....Jeremy58.166.30.222 01:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

So why dont you mind your own business. Theres a good chap Bugger off you did not know Noel Gray or his prior experience so why dont you just get lost ther's a good chap.

Clean up and POV
As can be seen from the above discussion and also comments through the text such as, there is considerable bias around the writing of this article. If it is not cleaned up to meet wikipedia standards of verifiability, I propose it is merged to the Telectronics article. Note Wikipedia is not a site for family history and although Gray almost certainly meets the standards for inclusion (there would be no disagreement that he made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field), the present article does not conform to the standards set out at Autobiography not least because the main contributor has apparently been Gray's son and thus in breach of the guideline.--Golden Wattle talk 21:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Article needs rewriting
All sources I have now been able to check indicate the article's subject Noel Gray was at least cofounder of the early Australian biotech company Telectronics, so as said by Golden Wattle "meets the standards for inclusion" in Wikipedia but the article in its present form bluntly reads more like an historically based novel. The main contributor "has apparently been Gray's son and thus in breach of the Wikipedia guidlines",see Autobiography. I apologise to Mr Gray's son for repeating the word 'nutter' in my edit under the section headline "Nutter", this was an emotional reaction to reading the article. An article which could better record the history of Noel Gray's contribution to early biotechnology might best be written by his son, even if that is contravening a rule so he should be encouraged to do that. TK Canberra60.230.177.204 04:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Article needs deleting
This article needs deleting rather than rewriting. This man is at best a minor business man and inventor. Despite what his relatives may think.

Start by reading the book Telectronics the early years, then read the next book and edit this page and all future refferences to Noel Gray and Telectronics accordingly. mambo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.206.239.116 (talk • contribs).
 * If you feel the article should be deleted, please nominate it using Articles for deletion.—WAvegetarian (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Article has an AfD now, Articles_for_deletion/Noel_Gray OSbornarf 04:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Edit of 19 September 2007
Changed "founder" of Telectronics to "co-founder" as verified by reading ref. [1]. Changed "first High Technology" to "one of the earliest High Technology" in accord with High technology definition. Deleted ref to "Patent". The benefit of left ventricular pacing is prior art. See Artificial pacemaker section biventricular pacing. The method of left ventricular or apical pacing claimed in the patent is nonsensical as firstly, it would require open-chest surgery which is not an acceptable option (as distinct from transvenous pacing), secondly, the method proposes placing the pacemaker between and contacting both the apical heart area and the diagphram which is impossible as both are in constant and variable motion, and thirdly, the proposal is for 'capacitance electrodes', which is technological nonsense as the capacitance required could neither be provided by the 'surface' of the pacemaker, nor within an aqueous environment. Geoffrey Wickham 05:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Attacks on Noel Gray’s background and experience as told in Telectronics the Early Years

The attack on Noel Gray’s pacemaker patents is another in a long line of personal attacks that began many years ago. In similar vein as in the early days at Telectronics staff and others were told that Gray didn’t study medicine at the University of Sydney and that he was a simple “TV repair man.” Well this man is one of the first people in the pacemaker industry to have identified the deleterious consequences to cardiac function caused by pacing from the right ventricular apex. Quite an achievement for an alleged simple “TV repair man,” don’t you think. Not really, but the result of many years of study of medicine and medical papers and research performed when he was at Telectronics.

Chronic pacing the right ventricular apex is now widely regarded as having such deleterious consequences as the development of heart failure and death. It is interesting to note that in Mr Wickham and Mr Jeffcoat’s unpublished story held by the University of Melbourne they clearly state that this site was regarded by them as the most beneficial pacing site and that they always preferred pacing the right ventricular apex. In the light of current knowledge it is intriguing to wonder how they came to this conclusion.

The alleged history story on the public access dictionary, Wickapedia, that Mr Jeffcoat and Dr Nicks introduced pacemakers to Telectronics is calculated to destroy Noel Gray’s reputation further by adding that before these two gentlemen came along Telectronics was destined to make only industrial electronics. I don’t know just what these two gentlemen were told at the time, but I am sure that they were not told that Noel Gray had already started working on pacemakers (based on research in 1949 at university and on developments here and overseas of an emerging market for implantable pacemakers since 1960) and medical electronics at Telectronics. Nor that he had a long-held vision for the company to do just that from before incorporation in 1963. The company was planed but money is required as start-up capital and this was not available for such an ambitious venture in Australia in the 60s. Mr Gray chose to earn money for capital by hard work starting and building up his television and scientific instrument repair business, Television Electronic Services. Indeed the profit from this business in 1963, of some £2,000 was the start-up capital for Telectronics Pty Limited when he incorporated it that year. Signed Veritas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.164.10.231 (talk) 10:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Mostly, I have to ask who you are, and if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you register with Wikipedia and provide verifiable sources for all of this? What you assert here is no more verifiable than a lot of what you claim is wrong with the article. Wildhartlivie 10:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Article issues
1. I have to ask what the purpose is of some of the entries in the further reading section. I realize they were put there as some sort of citation for a bulk of text that was hidden within the body of the article. I removed that text. There is no need to hide text for the purpose of saving it for a later date. If at some future point, it may be returned to the article, then it can be obtained from the history. 2. The format of the referencing within the article was not in keeping with the format suggested in WP:CITE. I replaced the citations that were formerly made by the use of (3) with an appropriate format. 3. There was a preponderous number of redlinks in the article. Unless one is planning to start articles for those or there isn't sufficient information out there for an article, there's no point in redlinking every proper name of a person or establishment, so those were removed. 4. Back to the further reading section. Exactly where would one go to find the following: If these are indeed records that exist, it needs to be clarified where one would find them. Also, the format for Applied Economics and Australian Business, 10th Edition, Rayomond Bennett, P 81 also requires the publisher information and date, besides the proper formatting of the author's surname, given name, at the beginning of the entry.
 * Service and Casualty Form N D Gray NX 102216
 * University of Sydney examination records Noel D Gray 1948-50.
 * Graduate Institution of Radio Engineers
 * Letters of Caroline Hedger
 * Applied Economics and Australian Business, 10th Edition, Rayomond Bennett, P 81
 * Corporate Affairs Records for Telectroics Pty Limited
 * Taxation records for Telectronics
 * Books for Telectronics

These are some of the issues I see with cleaning up this article that really need to be addressed, besides the POV question, which I'm simply not sure of at all. Wildhartlivie 11:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)