Talk:NoitulovE

Balance
I've really been trying to find someone, anyone, with authority who doesn't like the piece, but it does seem to be genuinely universally well-liked. The only person I can find badmouthing noitulovE at all is at a random website, who thinks that the ad raises unfortunate associations between the brand and ugly ape-people. But the writer isn't really authoritative or even notable in any way, so the quotation's unusable. If anyone comes across a nice juicy soundbite to provide a bit of balance, feel free to bring it up here or add it directly. Failing that, I can't see any way to avoid making the article sound a bit like a puff piece. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 19:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Evolutionary Inaccuracy
This may seem like a nit-pick, but it might perhaps be noted that the (reversed) sequence of evolutionary stages depicted in the ad is partially inaccurate. Yes, it's only an ad, but would it have been any harder to get it closer to reality?

(Fish, amphibian, reptile, [stage omitted 'cos I cant remember], small land mammal, flying lemuroid, monkey, ape... would have been nearer the mark; small dinosaurs and birds shouldn't figure.)

Inaccurate but memorable pieces (and it's certainly well-produced and memorable) are liable to lodge in impressionable young minds and make it harder for later lessons to stick. 40.0.96.1 (talk) 18:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a valid complaint, but noone else seems to have made it. If you can find a reliable source discussing the ads errors in this regard, it'd make for a fantastic "con" argument to balance out the "pro" quotations already included. Without outside discussion on the matter, it's hard to justify putting the argument forward in the article, though. It's almost a shame that the ad didn't run in the U.S., as it'd've garnered *huge* publicity once the inevitable ID v Evolution crowd started to comment. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 14:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * That's my complaint as well. Now that it has FA status and front-page visibility, this vivid one-minute commercial clip this will almost certainly be shown and discussed in educational contexts. Why has the commercial's accuracy not been assessed? We are not descended from dinosaurs. &mdash; Esotropic Flautist (talk) 19:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, if you can find criticism of the accuracy of the advert's narrative in an authoritative third-party source, by all means feel free to include it. I suspect that most reviewers are willing to allow for a degree of artistic licence - the piece is advertising beer, not science classes, after all. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 19:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Review: On Hold
I have reviewed this article according to the requirements of the GA criteria and have placed this article on hold at the time until the following issues are addressed. As you address each issue, either strike through the statement/place a check mark next to the issue and state how you addressed it. If you disagree with a particular issue, include your rationale stating why.
 * 1) "At the end of the production segment of the filmmaking schedule, a rough cut of the progress made so far was presented to..." This sentence appears to have been cut off in the "Production" section, make sure that it's fixed.
 * 2) "...and terrestrial television screenings of Austin Powers: Goldmember." The film should be italicized.
 * 3) "While revenues within the UK beer market declined by an average of -0.4% (-£19M), the year-on-year figures for Guinness showed an increase of 3.6% (+£13.3M)." Add an inline citation directly after this statement.
 * 4) "Between October 2005 and October 2006, Guinness achieved its highest ever volume (6.8%) and value (7.4%) shares,[5]taking" Add a space after the inline citation before "taking".
 * 5) "Since the end of noitulovE's original run, three additional commercials have been aired within the Good Things... campaign: Fridge, Hands, and Tipping Point (Guinness' most expensive advertising campaign to date[38]..." The last part of this sentence appears to be cut off as well.
 * 6) For the inline citations add access dates for any websites that don't have them, and update the ones that haven't been checked in a while. This will allow readers to know which sites are currently active.
 * 7) If you can find one, see if you can include an image of one of the awards if there is a free image available. I'm sure one of the thirty awards has to have some sort of trophy/plaque picture somewhere.

The article was interesting to read and I plan to view the commercial after finishing this review. Please address the above issues within seven days and I'll pass the article; if they are not fixed, the article may be failed. If you have any questions or when you are done let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 07:02, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ticked off most of the points. With regards to images though, I can't find any free ones of the *actual* awards presented to the team behind the commercial. The best I can find is of a London International Award presented to BBDO Guatemala for a separate project two years later (here and here). It seems a tad weird to add an image of an award given to a different group though. Still, let me know if you think it's a good idea to use it. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 09:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

GA passed
Good job with addressing the above issues. I have passed this article according to the requirements of the GA criteria. Since the award images aren't directly related, I don't think they should be added, but keep an eye out for any other images. See if there are any related WikiProject banners that should be added to this talk page. I may review the other ad as well, but I'll check to see what else I'm reviewing first. Continue to improve the article, making sure that all new information is properly sourced and neutral.

Also, to anyone that is reading this review, please consider reviewing an article or two at WP:GAN to help with the very large backlog. Instructions can be found here. Each new reviewer that helps to review articles will help to reduce the time that articles wait to be reviewed. Keep up the good work, and I hope that you continue to bring articles up to Good Article status. If anyone disagrees with this review, an alternate opinion can be sought at Good article reassessment. If you have any further questions about this review, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 00:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

FA Blurb
It'll be a long while before this hits the Main Page, but getting ready doesn't hurt. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 18:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

 noitulovE is a British television and cinema advertisement launched by Diageo in 2005 to promote Guinness-brand draught stout. The sixty-second piece formed the cornerstone of a £15M advertising campaign targeting men in their late-twenties and early-thirties. The commercial follows three patrons of a London pub on a journey back through time, showing the group "de-evolving" through a number of forms, from ape, to lizard, to mudskipper. The commercial was handled by the advertising agency Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO, and was directed by Daniel Kleinman. It debuted on British television on 3 October 2005. It is the fifth piece in the Good things come to those who wait series, and its premiere marked the end of a four-year hiatus. The advert was a critical and financial success, receiving over thirty awards from organisations in the advertising and television industries, and was the most-awarded commercial of 2006. The impact of the campaign was such that during a period in which the UK beer market experienced a substantial decline in revenue, Guinness reported that its earnings within the region had noticeably increased. At the same time, Guinness achieved its highest ever volume and value shares and became the market leader within the region. This was attributed in no small part to the positive reception garnered by noitulovE. (more…)

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Name, getting started
Being rather de-evolved myself it took me a long time to realize where the name came from. Perhaps the following might be included "The name "noitulovE" comes from the word "Evolution" spelled backwards." I also was a bit puzzled by the Advertising info box on the right, which doesn't mention Advertising. All in all, this might be a difficult article to get started on for many of my de-evolved fellows. Smallbones (talk) 15:33, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The note right after the first mention of the name explains that it's an anagram, though I'll change it to be more clear. Why should the infobox state that it's an advert? No other infoboxes do this either (see Infobox Film or Infobox Politician, for example.) GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 19:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Hm! I don't find any mention of its anagram, when I looked just now ! Feroshki (talk) 00:40, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's under the first reference. I'm still not convinced that the name needs to be explained in the main text, but if people are struggling with it, perhaps it ought to be changed to a footnote instead of a reference. Not sure whether or not that's still done with the Note/Ref system, though. If the article is to start using footnotes, it might be worth also converting the direct quotation from the LIAA further down. I think perhaps it should wait until after noitulovE is off the Main Page, though. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 01:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember that many non native english speakers read Wikipedia, for them it can be harder to detect such anagrams. I think it's vital for it to be explained, in the lead preferably. Thanks for a good read though, really interesting and unusual article! —Krm500 (Communicate!) 04:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree this needs to be explained as early as possible in the lead. It's just a random jumble of letters without explanation. A big challenge for text-to-speech software, certainly. --Martinship (talk) 06:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Alrighty, enough people complained to warrant moving the explanaion to the primary text in the lede. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 19:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Curiosity in sequence
It seems the men walk into the bar with the head already on their lips, and then they place it back into the glasses. Louis Waweru  Talk  00:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's because in the first few seconds of the ad they are moving normally, and only after they put the glasses down are they moving in reverse. JDS2005 (talk) 06:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Right, so they should actually drink the beer backwards. Never mind though, I guess it had to be done this way.  Louis Waweru   Talk  17:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You're saying that after they drink the beer, they should "un-drink" it before they walk backwards out of the pub? I suppose so, it might make it a bit more clear.  Ah well, too late now! JDS2005 (talk) 23:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Awards Table
I'm surprised that this got FA status with the table of awards being so badly positioned and showing so much white space on the page. yorkshiresky (talk) 03:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It didn't, at the time. The whitespace was added later. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 06:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, much better now. yorkshiresky (talk) 14:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Free Advertising
I do not think that articles about advertising campaigns such as these should be featured articles. It amounts to free advertising for them. --MacRusgail (talk) 17:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A quality article should not be excluded just because it might make money for someone. It should be judged on its encyclopaedic value, same as any other.  If its only purpose had been to generate publicity that would be a different matter, but then again, such an article would be unlikely to get to FA status.  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  17:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is about the FA status, but about the fact that it's the featured article on the Main Page, and the impression it gives to readers. Cenarium  Talk  23:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How is noitulovE pronounced? A sound file would be good.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  17:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I seem to recall watching an interview (Kleinmann perhaps?) where the subject referred to it as NOY-TOO-LUV, but it's been a long while since I researched the article. I'd have to check. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 19:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow, this entry officialy makes Wikipedia the most ultra retarded website ever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.201.164.179 (talk) 20:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Even more so than the Time Cube? GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 22:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Protection
Shouldn't this page be protected?Banpei (talk) 20:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Today's Featured Article is rarely protected, as it's felt that the bonus "Wow, I can edit this?" moments that first time users experience outweigh the fact that some will view a vandalised version of the page some of the time. It's more of a guideline than a policy, but it's generally adhered to. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 22:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Similar concept - where do we draw the line?
Have just undone the following edit:
 * Right Here Right Now (song), featuring a music video with a similar concept.

Regardless of its possible relevance, unless referenced it would seem to come under the category of original research. --Technopat (talk) 20:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd agree. If someone can find a reference comparing the two, or even listing them together in a broader context, I might go for inclusion. As is, it's entirely the point of view of the editor adding the material that there is a similarity. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 13:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

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