Talk:Noli Me Tángere (novel)

Untitled
todo: history, publication, finances and funds for publication,implications of readers--Jondel 02:47, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Censured by the Colonial Church
Does anybody know if the Spanish Church in the Philippines banned the book? --Jondel 06:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It was banned. That's what all the books on Philippine History and Rizal say. The Indios were not allowed to read it and anyone who did faced being marked an "ereje" or a "filibustero." Copies of the book must have been brought to the country by other well-to-do Filipinos studying in Europe. Jute 03:39, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Creation of the Philippines
hanged it to establishing national identity. The word "creation" connotes that it was nothing before it was created. The Philippines was already a country, albeit colonized. It was Rizal's work that made the Filipino realize that he is part of a whole, hence, an "identity." Jute 03:47, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

John 20:17
Can someone verify that "Noli me Tangere" was on signs attached to lepers? The Wikipedia articles on the phrase "Noli_me_tangere" and John_20:17, where the phrase originated, say that it is what Jesus said to Mary Magdalene after the resurrection, and it makes no mention of lepers. This page aside, I am unable to find sources on Wikipedia or Google that indicate that lepers are in any way involved with the phrase. --Migs 06:40, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Some pointers:


 * I don't exactly know if he(Rizal) explicitly mentioned that he got the phrase from the bible. The new testament doesn't say that lepers had to wear signs saying 'Touch me not.'


 * Jesus may also have been refering to himself being ritually unclean since he was 'dead'.


 * It was understood that Lepers were ritually unclean.


 * Rizal may have wanted to stress the problems of society as a disease like cancer and so disgusting that the problems were 'untouchable'.

From the testament of John: 20:11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, [and looked] into the sepulchre, 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. 20:13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
 * 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and [that] he had spoken these things unto her. 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you. 20:20 And when he had so said, he showed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. --Jondel 09:24, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Noli Me Tangere was indeed taken from the Bible, if you don't know Rizal quotes much from the Bible in his work. Besides, it's a common phrase for scholars and those who know Latin.

As for the leper signs, you won't find any mention of that in the Bible, scour you might. The phrase Noli me Tangere existed long before that practice. It WAS used once upon a time though, when there were no leprosariums yet. Dunong 19:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

People who translated
May I also request for information to be included as to who is the person to have translated Noli Me Tangere in Filipino vernacular or language?

Thank you.

Several authors have translated Noli Me Tangere to Filipino. No one person translated it. Jute 00:11, August 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * If you meant the standard translation approved by the Bureau of Public High Schools, Maria Odulio de Guzman translated it. There are also translations by Leon Ma. Guerrero, Soledad Lacson-Locsin, and Virgilio Almario in Filipino and English. That's about it; I don't know if there are more translators.


 * Additional note: Noli, by the way, has also been translated in Italian and other foreign languages. I have the Italian copy. It's just curious I can't find any French or German translations. Dunong 18:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

'Noli Me Tangere' was indeed taken from John 20:17
Noli Me Tangere or "Do not touch me." was indeed taken from the Bible, specifically from John 20:17. That was the part where Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene in Jesus' tomb. I never saw anything about lepers so you might wanna check your Bible again.

Also, Rizal did say that he extracted the book's title from the Bible, though I'm not really sure if he made mention about it in the book. He made this clear in his letter to Felix Resureccion Hidalgo, a Filipino painter: Noli Me Tangere, words taken from the Gospel of St. Luke (actually, St. John), signify "Do not touch me." (Agoncillo Teodoro. p.139, History of the Filipino People: Eighth Edition. Garotech Publishing, Quezon City. 1990) In this letter, Rizal explained some things about the novel, most of which were its social implications.--jbbuena 16:08, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Noli me tangere : the real reference of Jose Rizal
The french searcher D. Blumenstihl says that "Noli me tangere" is in fact the professional "nickname" the ophtalmologists give to the cancer of the eyelids. A tribute to Rizal

Yes, but there is a mistake in the main article. It says D. Blumentritt instead of Dominique Blumenstihl-Roth. This would appear to be a confusion of some sort with Rizal's close friend the Czech, Ferdinand Blumentritt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.255.82 (talk) 18:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

And further down the article refers to "Rizal's letter to Leitmeritz". But Leitmeritz is a town. The letter was actually to Blumentritt, who lived in Leitmeritz. The confusion seems to have come about by cutting and pasting from http://www.univie.ac.at/Voelkerkunde/apsis/aufi/rizal/har-ody.htm. Seen in its original context it is clear that it is referring to a letter to Blumentritt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.255.82 (talk) 19:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Father Dámaso and Maria Clara
"Fray Dámaso" and "Padre Dámaso" are used interchangeably in the article. Considering that his separate article is found under the name "Father Dámaso," I've changed "Fray" and "Padre" to "Father." I also changed "Damaso" to "Dámaso" per same article. (This is correct according to my English translation of Noli and the Father Dámaso article.)

From the article: Fray Dámaso takes this opportunity to persuade the already-hesitant parents of Maria Clara to forbid their daughter from marrying Ibarra.

Maria Clara's mother died giving birth to her (a puerperal fever, according to my English translation of Noli by Leon Ma. Guerrero). She could not have been persuaded by Father Dámaso because she was erm, already dead. He just convinced her father, Capitan Tiago.

Do I need to put my translated book as a reference? Sorry, I'm still pretty new here. Fluffybun 13:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The spelling and choice of languages for this person's title do not need a reference. But, there is no online English translation in the "External links" section.  (There was one, but the link was broken, so I deleted it.)  If your translation is online and can be read online by everyone who comes to this page then it would be useful to add a link to it. Gronky 13:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

ang mga tauhan sa noli me tangere crisostomo ibarra maria clara

Characters
Should we include a list of characters in Noli? Mark j (talk) 23:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Is this Noli Me Tangere???
I just want to ask why this article talks about a Don Quixote. As I read the past versions of this article it talks about Crisostomo Ibarra (which is correct). Why is it about a Don Quixote now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jodields (talk • contribs) 06:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Buod ng aklat na Noli Me Tangere
This is actually added in the page. Is it written in Tagalog so I removed it. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 04:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

About Don Rafael
The article says that:

"Unfortunately, it was raining and because of the bothersome weight of the cadaver, the men in charge of the burial decided to throw the corpse into the river ."

but when we took up the test about Chapter XIII Signs of Storm, I was wrong when I answered river because the correct answer is lawa (lawa is the the tagalog term of lake) and I read books about the novel and they all tell that Don Rafael was thrown in the lake not in the river

The Social Cancer by Jose Rizal - Full Text Free Book (Part 3/11) Anonymousman001 (talk) 15:03, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

What happens after Maria Clara becomes seriously ill?
The article says 'The sequence of events proved to be too traumatic for María Clara who got seriously ill but was luckily cured by the medicine Ibarra sería Clara to marry a Peninsular named Linares who just arrived from Spain." There's something wrong here but I don't know how to fix it.  --Richard (talk) 05:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Time setting of Noli Me Tangere
In Chapter 1 of Noli Me Tangere, the abolition of the tobacco monopoly is mentioned, making the story take place in the early 1880s. At the novel's epilogue, it is mentioned that a steamer named "Lipa" exploded with the event taking place on January 2, 1883, according to an author's note. Kevzspeare (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:35, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl, you removed content from this article on the grounds that it was a copyvio of this page. I would like to point out that the page in question is part of a Wiki whose content is free under GFDL.

Is the problem caused by the difference between GFDL and [Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CCA-SA]?

--Richard (talk) 17:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi. Yes, I'm afraid that's the problem exactly. As wmf:Terms of Use note, we are no longer able to import material from websites licensed under GFDL unless they are also licensed compatibly with CC-By-SA. While our licensing transition was completed this summer, its application is unfortunately retroactive to 1 November 2008. (See Licensing update.) This deadline was not set by the Wikimedia Foundation but by the GNU Project as part of their agreement with our transition request. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

More adaptations of the novel
Please help me find other film/TV/theater/literary adaptations of Noli Me Tangere aside from the 1951 film Sisa and the 1961 film named after the novel (both directed by Gerardo de Leon). Kevzspeare (talk) 08:48, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's a document extensively listing translations
This doc "The afterlives of noli me tangere" lists more english and tagalog translations, as well as a japanese, chinese, and probably indonesian:

http://www.philippinestudies.net/files/journals/1/articles/3393/public/3393-5250-1-PB.pdf

I've already improved this article today, so I'm leaving this for another time/person. Gronky (talk) 17:28, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

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Mestizo "daughter"?
Read this: "Crisóstomo Ibarra, the mestizo daughter of recently deceased Don Rafael Ibarra..."

I don't know who wrote this part. Either he/she is vandalizing the article or it is a result of extreme ignorance. Considering this is a novel by the Philippine national hero, it is sad to see how it went unnoticed. Students and historians read this and they must be laughing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.30.96.30 (talk) 15:08, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

"Uncle Tom's Cabin" as an inspiration to "Noli Me Tangere"
It is a prevailing belief that Rizal's Noli Me Tangere was inspired by Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin. This has been reinforced through school curriculum that is taught from elementary to college. A reading of the latter shows that there are very little similarities between Rizal's novel and Stowe's novel. Benito Pérez Galdós' "Doña Perfecta", on the other hand, has themes and characters strikingly similar to Noli.

Character archetypes are noted to be similar between Jose Rizal's Noli Me Tangere and Benito Pérez Galdós' Doña Perfecta, to wit:


 * 1) Rafael Ibarra (in Noli Me Tangere) to Juan Rey (in Doña Perfecta);
 * 2) Crisóstomo Ibarra (in Noli Me Tangere) to Pepe Rey (in Doña Perfecta);
 * 3) María Clara (in Noli Me Tangere) to Rosario (in Doña Perfecta);
 * 4) Capitán Tiago (in Noli Me Tangere) to Doña Perfecta (in Doña Perfecta);
 * 5) Padre Dámaso (in Noli Me Tangere) to Padre Inocencio (in Doña Perfecta);
 * 6) Filósofo Tasio (in Noli Me Tangere) to Don Cayetano (in Doña Perfecta);
 * 7) Linares (in Noli Me Tangere) to Jacinto (in Doña Perfecta).

Several focused themes are also noted between Jose Rizal's Noli Me Tangere and Benito Pérez Galdós' Doña Perfecta. The novels critique on the natives' negative traits such as resistance to reforms/modernization, culture of mediocrity, and strong belief in superstitions, among others. Both novels also criticized the frailocracy, that were prevalent in the Philippines and to some extent in Spain at that time.

Here is the link to Benito Pérez Galdós' Doña Perfecta novel, for comparison.

Obed.ello (talk) 05:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

The issue has been several succeeding historians' misreading of Rizal. Here is the probable chronology:


 * 1) Rizal wrote a diary entry (January 25, 1884) about finishing Eugène Sue's "The Wandering Jew" and commenting that it was a good book. Rizal added that he felt that the French language was rather intimidating, but doesn't speak to the heart and didn't make him cry.
 * 2) Austin Craig read Rizal's diary entry and in 1913 wrote in his book that "The Wandering Jew" profoundly affected Rizal - apparently misunderstanding the comments Rizal made about the French language.
 * 3) Charles Edward Russel read Austin Craig's entry about "The Wandering Jew" being more influential than "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and was the book that inspired Rizal to write his novel, but misunderstood Craig's text and thought Craig meant that "Uncle Tom's Cabin" was Rizal's inspiration. In 1924, co-authored a book with E. B. Rodriguez where he said Rizal was inspired by "Uncle Tom's Cabin". He did mention that Austin Craig was his source.
 * 4) Frank Laubach may have read the 1924 book by Charles Edward Russel and E. B. Rodriguez and in 1929 mentioned in "Seven Thousand Emeralds" that "Uncle Tom's Cabin" inspired Rizal to write Noli Me Tangere. He mentioned the same again in another book in 1936  - a biography about Rizal.
 * 5) Gregorio Zaide may have read either Laubach's (1929 or 1936) or Russel's and Rodriguez's (1924) mention of Uncle Tom's Cabin and wrote it in his 1957 biography of Rizal that Uncle Tom's Cabin inspired Rizal to write Noli Me Tangere.
 * 6) All the books listed above were not official school textbooks, but a new textbook came out in 1999 by Sonia Zaide (Gregorio Zaide 's daughter) that made the " 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' inspired 'Noli Me Tangere' " narrative go mainstream.

Obed.ello (talk) 07:29, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Does Rizal Law require students to read Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo?
There have been a provision in the Rizal Law that states that students aren't required to read the Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo. FinerInside28 (talk) 06:06, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Noli me tanghere
Boy 203.189.119.100 (talk) 09:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Plot summary too detailed with few erronerous parts
Hello. I've been reading this Plot section of this article, and I find it quite lengthy to read. And also, there may be parts of this section that are erroneous descriptions of the novel's plot. An example is this:

"Crisóstomo abandons his school project and enlists Elías in sorting out and destroying documents that may implicate him. Elías obliges, but comes across a name familiar to him: Don Pedro Eibarramendia. Crisóstomo says Pedro was his great-grandfather, and that they had to shorten his long family name. Elías responds that Eibarramendia was the same Spaniard who accused his grandfather of arson, and thus condemned Elías and his family to misfortune. Frenzied, he raises his bolo to smite Crisóstomo, but regains his senses and leaves."

But based on the novel:

Elias did not he raise his own bolo at Crisóstomo, but he actually ran towards Crisóstomo's collection of weaponry and took a dagger (puñal) in a frenzied attempt to do his revenge. In fact, he took two daggers (dos puñales) from the weaponry collection.

I hope the Plot section can be rewritten soon to make it more encyclopedic and accurate. —Nairb.Idi9 (talk) 04:51, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I took it upon myself to make the correction. Please feel free to edit the article as you see fit as well.
 * I think the novel itself is burdened with too many details anyway. Hopefully with renewed interest in the Noli in the wake of a popular soap opera adaptation today, the quality of this article improves.
 * You should have seen this a few years ago before the plot section was edited, though. It was a total riot. 119.92.183.120 (talk) 00:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Structure 120.28.214.89 (talk) 06:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Overal purpose structure
overal purpose structure 120.28.214.89 (talk) 06:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)