Talk:Noma Bar

Request for more information
Anyone with more information to add should expand the article. I've emailed Noma Bar's representatives requesting they add additional background, work info and most importantly a photograph of Bar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Foureyedave19 (talk • contribs) 01:04, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Foureyedave19's argument against deletion
The page was just created. The artist has been receiving a lot of media attention recently and has no article. Feel free to add and contribute to speed things up, but don't delete it. Foureyedave19 (talk) 22:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Ronhjones's reason for adding the CSD tag
The CSD tag was added because the original page was
 * Noma Bar, (born June 5, 1941 in Brookline, Massachusetts) is the Founder, Chairman & CEO of The Kraft Group, a diversified holding company with assets in paper & packaging, sports & entertainment, real estate development and a private equity portfolio. However, his best-known holdings are the National Football League's New England Patriots and Major League Soccer's New England Revolution, as well as the stadium where they play, Gillette Stadium.

And the suddenly changed (as if by magic) to:


 * Noma Bar, (born in 1973 in Israel) is a Graphic Designer.

Not what one would call a normal edit. Ronhjones(Talk) 22:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Foureyedave's further explanation for Ronhjones
No need to be snarky. Maybe you could use your experience for good instead. Clearly I was using another page as a template and you caught it at the wrong time. Please remove the CSD tag...it's quite ugly. Foureyedave19 (talk) 23:06, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Mufka's position
The notability of this subject has not been sufficiently asserted. It will be deleted if a sufficient (and supported) claim of notability is made. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 23:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Foureyedave's response
That's simply untrue. If the content already provided hasn't shown the legitimacy of the article feel free to delete it. I understand the importance of strict editing, but you're wrong here. I had my go at contributing...you've made it more frustration than it is worth. I will not be spending anymore time on the article if the intent is still to delete it. Foureyedave19 (talk) 23:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Mufka's response
Don't get discouraged. If you can provide some insight that helps to establish that this person meets WP:N and WP:CREATIVE, then he deserves an article. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c)


 * Just to clarify, the only claim of notability currently in the article is "His work has appeared in many media outlets". That is quite broad and doesn't tell us why he might be notable. What impact has he had, what awards has he won?  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 23:29, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Foureyedave's Done
I've added yet another reference statistic on notability... All this should be enough to remove the deletion tag. While the article may not be fully formed, those are big enough publications to warrant an article. In the meantime, google his name, you'll likely recognize his work. It was discouraging to see that there was no Wikipedia article in the first place, this is just annoying. I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove his relevance to you. Shouldn't weaker articles be left to be added to, not deleted only to have to be completely remade. If this is how Wikipedia operates, I'm plenty discouraged. Foureyedave19 (talk) 23:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In many ways, I consider Wikipedia the best starting point for research and the ultimate quick reference. I am doing my best to collect the scarce information on this artist and compile it for the ease of future searchers. Foureyedave19 (talk) 23:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

CSD Tag Removed
Don't worry about the deletion tag. As long as discussion is going on in good faith, it shouldn't be deleted. Unfortunately, we can't just have articles because someone familiar with the subject believes that the subject is notable. We have standards and they are quite simple to meet. Please read WP:CREATIVE and explain why this person meets those criteria. From what I can see, the first ten hits on google do not establish notability and are not reliable sources for doing so. My offer to move the page to your user space still stands. Then you can work on it without being bothered by deletion tags. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 23:49, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * There you go then, I've took it off. I was not being sarky, I was confused how the article could be two different people in such a short space of time.  Can I therefore suggest that the next page you create, you start in a private sandbox - make a page for yourself e.g. User:Foureyedave19/Sandbox - no one will look at it there, when you are really happy with the layout, then copy the whole lot in one fell swoop to the new page.  Editors will then see a nicely formatted page, and you won't get any fall out. Ronhjones(Talk) 23:52, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fair. I guess I didn't really expect you all to be so quick. I've nearly run out of info already, but I feel like the article provides a fair basis to be added to. It's probable that the page will become the first google result, which the artist without a personal website needs. Foureyedave19 (talk) 01:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)