Talk:Norman Lamm

Rabbi Lamm
This is better than the copyvio page that was here before. I'm concerned, however, by the repeated use to words like "greatest", "gifted", "eloquent" and what not. All have the smell of POV to them. This article is not supposed to convince the reader of Rabbi Lamm's greatness; a reasonable reader can make inference without having to be bombarded with commendations as to Reb Norman's oratorial skill. I have left most of these words in place for now. Another concern is the link to the article on the controversy between Rabbi Lamm and Rabbi Elya Svei. Is this pertinent to the article? Is it a chillul hashem? JFW | T@lk  13:56, 19 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Jfd:Rabbi Lamm is considered to be "great" by the Modern Orthodox world. He is a "gifted" speaker and fundraiser. How else to understand his prominence and importance in that domain? It would make no sense to say that "no-one" considers him great, or that he is "not" a good fundraiser or speaker as that would be neither true nor accurate. If someone wants to, they can insert how Dr. Lamm is viewed by other groups. As for the dispute with Rabbi Svei, the article shows how the "YU crowd" reacted to it, it's open information and no secret, after all Rabbi Svei made that announcement (against Rabbi Lamm) in public in front of hundreds of people with the media nearby, (in fact I put it in as an extrenal link rather than going into the entire issue in the body of the article, but it is actually mentioned on Wikipedia (I had nothing to do with the "hate speech" Wiki article, in fact one day I hope to put in a good response on behalf of the Torah world (Bli Neder), see it at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-Orthodox_Judaism/hatespeech_towards_other_Jews#Ultra-Orthodox_views_of_Modern_Orthodox_Jews ), and since when is Wikipedia concerned about Chilul H-shem? If that's the case you can delete 90% of the stuff on Judaism from Wikipedia as it's full of anti-Torah views where-ever you look. It's a tough neighborhood, that I will tell you. IZAK 04:42, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

It would make no sense to say that "no-one" considers him great - IZAK, I wasn't saying this at all. But: this is an encyclopedia article, not aimed at lauding Rabbi Lamm, who is effectively leading Modern Orthodoxy and has written and spoken about very important issues facing Judaism nowadays. The article on Rabbi Lamm will stand without promotional terms as to his oratorial skills; this is a matter of personal preference and therefore POV. I was making the chillul Hashem comment more tongue-in-cheek than in any other form. But: the purpose of this link might be worthy of reexamination. The link doesn't work, by the way. The "hatespeech" page has moved to Relationship between segments of Judaism, which is a much more NPOV title anywayz. JFW | T@lk  08:21, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

POV
This article is crammed with the most outragous POV. I'm only removing the obvious poiints that clearly defy the guidelines.jucifer 18:33, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I certainly agree and will do my best help out. Watch out for IZAK in particular; apparently he feels the need to censor pertinent criticism of Dr. Lamm within the orthodox community.  IZAK, please understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, "NOT a soapbox"  --Ryu Kobayashi

Really? Who is "Rabbi Nissim Cahn"? Where did he criticize Lamm? Jayjg (talk) 23:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Have you bothered reading the sources that are already posted? Apparently Rabbi Nissim Cahn is an accomplished Talmudist and Rabbi in contemporary orthodox Judaism; I would think that his criticism of Dr. Lamm is pertinent to the topic and is legitimate for inclusion in encyclopedia.  Keep in mind that keeping this here does not in any way shape or form endorse this view.  It is merely presenting the fact that the criticism exists.  I am not an expert on this topic but I do want to reduce the POV in any article I see (please click my user name for more info on my campaign to improve Wikipedia), and this one article struck me as very POV.  If you want to reword the criticism, by all means go ahead (it actually does look sloppy) but do not outright delete it.  Once again, Wikipedia is not a soapbox for you to censor valid criticisms of your favorite leaders.  -- Ryu Kobayashi

There are no other sources posted; you've invented Cahn. Please stop playing games. Jayjg (talk) 23:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

By the way, 0 Google hits. Jayjg (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I assure you I did not "invent" Cahn. I could care less about Google hits.  Please do the reading for yourself, do not jump to conclusions, and do not continue the blatant and destructive censorship that IZAK has begun.  Thank you.  Ryu Kobayashi

Who is he then? Please provide some credible reference. Jayjg (talk) 23:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree. The Zionism section desperately needs an objective rewrite. I will look into it -- FeldBum 23:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Kahn, or Cahn, was and is a prominant member of the RIETS staff. He was the "Rosh Kollel", or Dean of the Graduate Rabbinical Dptmnt. After crossing swords with R'Lamm on more than one occasion concerning Lamm's more "relaxed" religious views, the Board took Lamm's side and demoted Kahn to head a less prestigious Kollel within RIETS. Even though this discussion is old, I thought I would clear it up.  Shykee 21:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)shykee
 * I am not sure if he is the same Kahn mentioned in the article. I will have to clear that up before doing any edits.   Shykee 21:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)shykee
 * See my profile. He's certainly not a YU RY or RK anymore. --Yodamace1 18:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems that this "Nissin" fellow is indeed fictitious. I was referring to R' Ahron Kahn.

Shykee 05:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)shykee

The section about TuM is horribly slanted. The idea that those who espouse TuM do so out of convenience whereas those who oppose it do so out of a concern for "purity" is insane. There is not one major proponent of TuM who would claim that the strength of TuM lies in any way in its convenience. Furthermore, I highly doubt how many of those who oppose TuM have actually read R. Lamm's book, so before we go about trumpeting the "purity" of R. Lamm's opponents, let's source this section a little better (or just keep it as I just left it - even though the comparison between Hirschian Torah Im Derekh Eretz and TuM is also awful). ---JSMajor

Image
Removing unverifiedimage see:. IZAK 06:13, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Controversy
Can someone add some sources to this? -- FeldBum 22:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

What about the (in)famous "Gifter Shechts Lamm on Pesach" speech? NeverWorker (Drop me a line) 07:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC) Yes, its definitely enclopedic and important to mention. Rabbi Gifter gave over the Haredi take on Lamm and his views.  Jackthepriest

Rabbi Nissim Cahn
Can't find that name anywhere so I deleted the part of the article mentioning him. I have a feeling it's a spelling error. --Yodamace1 19:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Please see my comment above. Shykee 21:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)shykee

Sexual abuse scandal and his current mental health and involvement in YU?
Someone should add a sexual abuse scandal section. Also what is his current mental health status? (i.e. dementia) and is he actually still involved in YU like the current article says? This isn't a great source since it's an opinion piece but see the following Beacon article that says he has dementia and is no longer involved with YU. http://thebeaconmag.com/2012/12/opinions/unneccessary-evil-the-crimes-of-a-newspaper/ Infoinfoinfo123 (talk) 19:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Centrist Orthodoxy
I do not think the explanation is accurate. Centrist Orthodoxy has little to do with modern orthodoxy itself. I believe MO is a category outside of the idea of centrist versus right/left orthodoxy. Centrist orthodoxy could maybe attached to traditionalist yeshivot that are more centered. 184.59.65.106 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

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