Talk:Norman Milliken

Milliken, Ontario is not named after Norman Milliken
Of the sources cited in this article--which were not dead links, and which are accessible via the Internet--the most reliable indicate that Milliken, Ontario is not named after Norman Milliken, but after the Milliken family.
 * This historical source states that the settlement is named after "this enterprising family".
 * This source is the Toronto Library, and states that the settlement was named for the Milliken family.
 * This is an article about Benjamin Milliken published by the city of Markham, and specifically states: "the family's profile in the community is recognized today by the hamlet for which they are the namesake".
 * This source is a local newspaper, and states: "the neighbourhood derives its name from the Milliken clan".
 * This historical source says nothing about the community being named after Norman Milliken.
 * This historical source says nothing about the settlement being named after Norman, but lists several other Milliken's also living at the settlement.
 * This book seems to indicate that the settlement took its name from "the Milliken clan" and "the pioneer family that first settled the area".
 * This government source states that "Milliken's Corners" was first settled by William Dumont. It goes on to mention both Norman Milliken and his daughter Charlotte.  It does not specifically state that the settlement was named for Norman or Charlotte.
 * This book makes no mention of Norman Milliken.
 * This blog mades no mention of Norman Milliken.

Supporting the claims made in the article:
 * This statement by a local counsellor seems far less reliable than the historical texts above. That counsellor stated that "the post office" was named "Milliken’s Corners after Norman Milliken".
 * This real estate guide states: "this neighbourhood was originally called Milliken's Corners. It was named after Norman Milliken."
 * This non-historical text has a "description from owner" (of the post office?) stating "the post office was established in 1858 and named Milliken after early settler Norman Milliken".

The reliable sources in the article overwhelmingly state that the settlement of Milliken, Ontario is NOT specifically named after Norman Milliken, but after his family. The input of other editors would be welcome. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:22, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

The following source is a textbook from the University of Toronto Press entitled "Place Names of Ontario" it says of Milliken, Ontario "...this place was named in 1858 after Loyalist Norman Milliken, who had settled here in 1814.", "Place Names of Ontario ", Alan Rayburn, University of Toronto Press, 1997 page 221. ISBN 0802006027, 9780802006028 https://books.google.ca/books?id=TwF6AAAAMAAJ&q=place+names+of+ontario++alan+rayburn++221+%22norman+milliken%22&dq=place+names+of+ontario++alan+rayburn++221+%22norman+milliken%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAGoVChMIxJG7yMeOyQIVTutjCh0-wgTb The date 1858 corresponds to the date a post office was established at Milliken's Corners. The next reference is the Principal's Message from the Principal of Milliken Mills High School in Milliken, Ontario who says Milliken Mills High School was named after Norman Milliken http://www.yrdsb.ca/schools/millikenmills.hs/info/Pages/Principals-Message.aspx (Unionville) (talk)Unionville (talk) Unionville (talk) 02:48, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Should the article state that Milliken, Ontario is named after Norman Milliken?
Several sources used in the article suggest Milliken, Ontario is named after the Milliken "clan", and not specifically Norman Milliken. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:34, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

FRS
Hello Zppix from FRS here. I say unless its a reliable source do not put this in the article.

Comments

 * I appreciate you effort to gather additional perspectives and to form a consensus on the matter before acting, but surely the way forward here is obvious. When we have multiple sources giving slightly varied accounts of a given even or historical development, we present both (or all) interpretations for which the references represent reliable sources.  In this instance, it should be fairly easy to rework the lead's first sentence to say that the town may have been named for Norman Milliken, or for his family at large--and to intimate (as seems to be the case) that historical record leaves us with a situation wherein we may, at this point, never know for certain.  Frankly, it's a very minor point, and I can't see you getting much pushback in any event, but I think it's best to present the uncertainty, rather than our trying to become the arbiter of which of these historical interpretations is more likely to be true.  S n o w  let's rap 00:13, 9 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Norman Miiliken was the first of his family to settle at Milliken's Corners and the only member of his generation to survive the historical record. All sources seem to agree Norman started the first hotel and tavern in Markham Township at Milliken's Corners and that he had a significant role in the lumber industry owning and operating a lumber mill.  No other member of his family had the prominence that he did.  His daughter Charlotte appears to have operated the tavern her father Norman started.  One of Norman's  sons Benjamin Milliken, the only other notable member of the Milliken family,  in fact lived and had a farm near Hagermans Corners , Markham Towship , so it is unlikely Milliken's Corners was named for him. Norman is the only member of the family whose extensive commercial endeavours have been recognized and survived the historical record.


 * What should settle the question is the name of 2 of the 3 neighbourhoods in Milliken, Milliken Mills East, Milliken Mills West and and a high school  Milliken Mills High School.  The word Mills in Milliken Mills  obviously refers to Norman's lumber mills.  No other member of the Milliken family is cited for owning or operating a lumber mill or for any commercial endeavour at all.  The name of these neighbourhoods by including the word Mills makes it clear who Milliken is named after,  the only member of the Milliken family who owned or operated a lumber mill, Norman Milliken.


 * The Milliken article if amended should reference the fact that Milliken Mills communities reference the Norman Milliken lumber mills.


 * The user at the top of the thread  has twice unsuccessfully nominated the Norman Milliken article for deletion.
 * Unionville(talk)Unionville (talk) 05:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I tend to agree that, evidence being what it is, the area probably is named for this particular man, or at least that he was the single largest contributor. Unfortunately, no matter how slight we might feel our assumptions to be in this regard, it would remain WP:original research/WP:synthesis to draw those conclusions from the evidence at hand; we must rely instead on what our sources explicitly say on the matter, and they are clearly a combination of uncertain or divided.  Our coverage should therefore reference the possibility that the name derives specifically from Norman Milliken's influence on the area, or that of his family at large.  This doesn't seem terribly complicated or controversial to me.  S n o w  let's rap 09:16, 9 November 2015 (UTC)


 * What is the general weight and reliability of the sources? That should roughly determine how we present the information. For example, if most of the reliable sources name it after Norman, but only a few poor ones suggest it was the clan then I would not even mention the clan. If it is more even then both should be mentioned even by just using a simple or. I know I could evaluate this for myself, but the conversation here seems very positive, so though I would just give my 2 cents as general advice. AIR corn (talk) 22:40, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The following source is a textbook from the University of Toronto Press entitled "Place Names of Ontario" it says of Milliken, Ontario "...this place was named in 1858 after Loyalist Norman Milliken, who had settled here in 1814.", "Place Names of Ontario ", Alan Rayburn, University of Toronto Press, 1997 page 221. ISBN 0802006027, 9780802006028 https://books.google.ca/books?id=TwF6AAAAMAAJ&q=place+names+of+ontario++alan+rayburn++221+%22norman+milliken%22&dq=place+names+of+ontario++alan+rayburn++221+%22norman+milliken%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAGoVChMIxJG7yMeOyQIVTutjCh0-wgTb The date 1858 corresponds to the date a post office was established at Milliken's Corners. The next reference is the Principal's Message from the Principal of Milliken Mills High School in Milliken , Ontario who says Milliken Mills High School was named after Norman Milliken http://www.yrdsb.ca/schools/millikenmills.hs/info/Pages/Principals-Message.aspx (Unionville) (talk)Unionville (talk) Unionville (talk) 02:48, 14 November 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unionville (talk • contribs)

Should it say Milliken named after Norman Milliken
A University of Toronto Text book on the place names of Ontario says the Postal Village of Milliken was named after Norman Milliken in 1858. The Wikipedia article says that modern Milliken Mills (not the Postal Village) is named after Norman or his family Unionville (talk) 17:01, 14 August 2017 (UTC)