Talk:North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics

History Section
I would like to see some info about how the school was formed in the history section. When it was initially conceived, how long it took to pull together, how Gov Hunt managed to fund it the first few years , it’s move into the UNC system (I think it was directly under the governor’s office for a bit) who the shakers were that made it happen, etc. I do not recall much of this, but perhaps someone does and maybe the school has, likely non-digital records of this time. —- David, class of ’84 (that narrows me down to 1 of 13 people!)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by OriEri (talk • contribs) 00:19, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Untitled
I'm kind of doubting the reason 66.26.77.107 gives for the tuition grant troubles; I don't think the president's salary, though outrageously high at 195,000 a year, would be a reason for cutting the grant. NC's budget problems seem more relevant. Snowmanmelting 3 July 2005 02:11 (UTC)

I just added the vertical sidebar, but I'm having trouble finding the school logo as a separate image on their website (Shouldn't be copyright because it's public). If someone finds it, could you put it in the little empty box at the top of the sidebar? Thanks. --2tothe4 03:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

The best image I could find was located at http://math.bu.edu/people/russjack/Images/ncssm.gif but I am not sure if it is large enough... Asteron]] [[User_talk:Asteron|ノレツァ 00:54, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Woolworth's Lunch Counter
Could someone check the facts on the Woolworth counter information, namely the assertion that the counter is from a Durhan Woolworth's but commorates a sit-in that took place in Greensboro? I understand that there were a string of sit-ins across the South in the 1960s, but the article currently implies that the counter is only important because it is from a Woolworth's, not because an actual sit-in took place at that particular counter at some point in the past. I would assume that the facts are available on a plaque or sign on campus. Thanks! J Saturday, 2006-07-15 T 04:59 UTC


 * When I added the reference to Woolworth's a couple of years ago I wrote "it is home to a lunch counter from Woolworth's in Durham, at which a sit-in took place on February 7, 1960". Since then someone altered the text, it seems.


 * I think I got the information from a very interesting history-of-NCSSM booklet, but unfortunately I don't know where it is anymore. The famous Greensboro sit-ins were actually on February 1, 1960 (see Greensboro Sit-Ins), but there were others around the state. I believe that the lunch counter is actually from a sit-in at a Durham Woolworth's, and links such as seem to confirm that there were indeed sit-ins or demonstrations in Durham on the date given.


 * Of course, as you say, it would be even better if someone with access to campus could confirm the information. Wmahan. 05:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Taking what you have said, I'm guessing that the insertion of the Greensboro information was done sloppily. The guilty party probably meant to imply that the Durham sit-in was sparked by the Greensboro sit-in (which it was) but instead changed the meaning.  I'm going to edit it under this understanding and leave it to someone else to prove it wrong. J  Sunday, 2006-07-16 T 00:23 UTC


 * That makes sense. By the way, your edits to the article have been informative and well written. Nice work! Wmahan. 04:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I went to the NCSSM Discovery Day last March and I believe that I did see the Woolworth counter. There was also a picture of the sit-in posted on the wall right next to it. The thing that really sticks out in my mind about it is that our guides told us that Martin Luther King Junior actually sat on one of the stools, and I believe that he was also featured in the photograph. I am slated to go back to NCSSM for Welcome Day in about a week and eventually enrollment in the fall, so hopefully I'll be able to get a picture or something up. Tamirtoad 16:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

girls-only computer class
I replaced the girls-only computer class link. This is something that people actually talk about on campus, and I think someone coming to wikipedia might be looking for confirmation that NCSSM is really doing this class (when news first came out over the summer, not everyone was sure if it was true or simply proposed). I beleive it should be mentioned in the article but for the meantime the link will work. --2tothe4 19:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

This class exists. It is being taught by Dr Susanna Schwab. The course website is []

I am the director of CS at NCSSM. Said class was indeed taught. We thought very well of Susanna; she is a top-drawer person. She was recruited to a new position several years ago. We would have been happy to welcome her to the faculty.

We are having some good luck attracting girls to CS. We don't get as many as we would like but quite a few take and enjoy CS classes. Some have been summer interns at IBM.

Ncmathsadist (talk) 01:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Merging First Hill article to NCSSM?
First Hill is one of many residence halls at NCSSM. Each of these houses about 20-40 individuals. There are more than a dozen such halls, with First Hill being one of them. This seems like it deserves a mention in the NCSSM article, but not its own article. As an NCSSM alum, this article seems to me to be the continuation of a rivalry between First Hill and the upstairs Second Hill, with each striving for recognition. I do not see the importance of continuing this preening in an encyclopedia setting. There are older residence buildings at the school, there are hundreds of other students, and frankly I don't see the weekend activities of a handful of high school students as material for an encyclopedia, though the historical information presented in that article is relevant here. Demilio 16:35, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I am inclined to agree; this appears to be more along the lines of a vanity article, though I am also an alum (lived on First Hill). On a slightly different note, I have a slight issue with the "Academics" section. The part about Dr. Houpe (I am assuming that he is the teacher alluded to about the languages) is somewhat anecdotal. If someone can improve upon the information given -- such as languages learned -- or by clarifying "studying" -- is he fluent, does he teach courses, has he once known the language, etc. -- that would be great. --Golladayp 00:49, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm just adding my vote for merging First Hill into the NCSSM page. I'm also an alumnus of the school.  There are a lot of halls, and I see no reason why First Hill is particularly notable.  (Then again, I lived on First Hunt. :) ) MCS 22:08, 8 April 2006


 * I personally believe that First Hill should be seperated from NCSSM as much as possible, perhaps launched into outer space?


 * If First Hill is included in the article, then so should the rest of the halls, being First Hunt, Second West, Second East, Thrid West, Third East, Fourth West, Fourth East, Ground Royall, First Royall, Ground Reynolds, Reynolds 1C 2C 1D, Reynolds 1E 2E 2D, First Beall, Second Beall, Third Beall, Second Hill, Second Bryan, Third Bryan, and Fourth Bryan. For those that do not know, all of Hunt and Hill are guy dorms.  All of Royall, Reynolds, Beall, and Bryan (except Second) are girls dorms.  For the 2006-2007 school year, Second Bryan will be converted from a boys dorm to a girls dorm.  Also, on another topic, shouldn't there be something in the article about NCSSM going to the UNC School System as a full member, not just an affiliate school?  Again, on the First Hill article, if dorms are integrated into NCSSM article, it should be based on factual and historical evidence, not weekended stuff.  There is actually alot of good history that has been passed down by students on each of the dorms and what they were in years past.  (For instance, Second Hill North and Second Hill East were girls dorms, the building before Royall (forget the name...), and Bryan at one point being all guys.)  Just a thought.....May 4th, 7:54 AM by an NCSSM Senior c/o 2006


 * Keep in mind that all of the dorms have gone through various incarnations. During my tenure (1990-92) Hill, Beall and Reynolds were girls' dorms; Bryan and New Dorm (which I still refuse to call Hunt) were guys' dorms.  Wyche was defunct and Royall hadn't even been thought about yet.  Either way, I agree -- merge the articles. Sonria 02:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC) (who lived on 3rd Beall and Reynolds 2D)


 * You have forgotten Wyche House where many venerable alumni lived in the early eighties. This is not to be confused with Royall although they share the shell of the same building.  We had more asbestos back then.  And we liked it that way.  (Old codger alumnus from 1984)


 * I'm inclined to agree with the idea of launching First Hill into outer space. 2B for life!


 * Merge it. This just as absurd as making a page for every room in a skyscraper. --GoOdCoNtEnT 21:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

As a current NCSSM student, I think that the First Hill article should be deleted, not even merged. First Hill is one hall of many, and maybe all would be needed would a list of the residential halls.

National Awards / Notable Alumni
I'd like to see a listing of national awards won by students at NCSSM and/or a listing of Notable Alumni. However, I'm not certain that this information is readily available... Treznor 20:09, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A lot of the vandalism on the Louisiana School for Math, Science, and the Arts article is people adding themselves and other non-notables to the Notable alumni section--even current students. But this is probably done on all the pages with alumni. --Christopherlin 23:11, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * True, and I would expect that something similar may end up happened here to some extent. However, I do think it would be something interesting to add to the article.  We may need to define some standard as to what is a "Notable Alumni" or "National Award" (possibly Notable Award instead?).
 * Add only the most famous notable alumni with high achievements. Or else it may get abused. --GoOdCoNtEnT 21:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * People with articles. æ² ✆ 2006-07-11t01:37z
 * Richard Chapman '82 was the school's first Rhodes Scholar. Matt Welsh '92 wrote/co-wrote what were probably the first published books on Linux. Joseph N Hall 11:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

GSSM
When I attended GSSM in 1997 there was a sister program with NCSSM. I haven't been able to deterime if this still exists but if someone knowledgeable about it could make an addition to the SCGSSM page I'd appreciate it. Flamesplash 01:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Foreign Language
I know the teacher being referenced as studying 13 languages is Dr. Houpe, but I'm not sure what we'd cite to verify this claim. Smithra 16:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Assessment as of March 2007
Hello all, and thank you for contributing to this school site. I'm part of the WikiProject_Schools/Assessment team, and, as requested, I'm reviewing this page. I'm currently giving it a grade of Start on the Wikipedia 1.0 Assessment Scale and an importance of High on this importance scale.

My reasoning is as follows: This seems to be a solid article but it needs to cite the facts and figures it is claiming. The academics section is just a fact list and it needs work on WP:NPOV. Adam McCormick 06:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I knew Don Houpe personally, from 2000 until his death in 2008. At the very least, I know he commanded English, Esperanto,Spanish, German, Russian, French and some others. He was a brilliant, funny, and unassuming man with an innocent charm, a gentle manner, and a strong sense of principle.

Ncmathsadist (talk) 01:35, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I met Don Houpe in 1980 as the School was preparing to open and asked him which Computer languages he preferred. (Yes, even then I was an inveterate Smart*ss.) He said that he found COBOL and RPG to have been the most useful for earning a living. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.50.159.185 (talk) 17:16, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Addition of short Athletics portion?
I think that something needs to be added about the athletics at NCSSM. While obviously not the main point of the school, I think it would be good to at least give a couple lines letting people know that NCSSM does actually have athletics, especially with the recent state titles in track and cross country and well as consistent state play-off performance by numerous other teams. These types of performances are certainly significant enough to warrant mention of the athletic program in general.

Few Things
Just a few things I've picked up from my brother (who is a student there while I am an alum): 74 security cameras were installed this year due to an incident involving some students being held at knifepoint or gunpoint ( I can't recall which). Also, the emergency blue light poles have also been constructed. In addition, the Elevator Singles are no more, I'm afraid: due to a stricter Fire Marshall apparently (as it's passed since the mid 90's), with only one exit and no windows, it was considered unsafe to live in. Soccernamlak (talk) 03:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It was gunpoint, and that was me. I don't know what to cite. The security cameras could possibly fit under controversies, as the majority of students despise them. There is a Facebook group called "NCSSM is watching you," of which many NCSSM students are members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.85.24.5 (talk) 01:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm the guy who provided most of the illustrations so far. If you can clue me in where the most illustrative/annoying security cameras are, I'll be interested in going and taking a picture.  Please let me know!  Also, anything else you guys would like a picture of? --Specious (talk) 19:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The most obnoxious ones are the ones in the Student Centre monitoring the television, but since that's inside, I don't know if you can get there. There are two on the roof of Bryan, one on Bryan Lobby, one on the corner of Bryan, near the Chiba. There are also several inside Bryan Lobby which are fairly obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.85.24.5 (talk) 19:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

"Falling Out"
I just removed the following unsourced statement from the "Controversy" section. It was added by 69.68.74.37 (Fayetteville, NC) on 9 June 2009, and smacks of personal opinion rather than a true controversy. Rather than leave this assertion on the main page, I am moving it here. Please feel free to add the information back in if you can edit for clarity and identify the sources (who noted this trend? Has this been published anywhere, or is it from a conversation or a blog?  when was this noted?  who are those that have "widely considered" this trend?) --216.93.191.242 (talk) 14:15, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Recently it has been noted that many students have a "falling-out" while attending NCSSM. It is widely considered that this is due to the lack of authoritative figures such as parents while the students are attending. This has been linked to numerous sexual activities within the school, drug use, declining grades, and dropouts.

This last claim lacks any documentation and has at best tangential relationship with the facts. Let's be real. NCSSM is a school that serves adolescents. Adolescents (as well as young college students) experience their share of difficulties with drugs, alcohol, sex and the usual array of life complexities. I have taught at universities and for nearly 17 years at NCSSM and the Bergen Academies in New Jersey. The problems we see at NCSSM are pretty representative of the problems of adolescents observed in our society as a whole. NCSSM is an enterprise, after all, which deals with human beings. And we all know this: people can disappoint you bitterly with their actions and their achievements can exceed your expectations in every way. This is the nature of human enterprise. It does not offer a certain return.

The school provides good support for its students. Each student has an academic advisor (each advisor has about 8 students he or she advises), a student life instructor on hall, and a guidance counsellor. These constitute a student's "support team," which is engaged when a student runs into problems. Members of the support team are notified if a student gets ill, gets into disciplinary trouble or if the student gets into academic difficulty. There is a healthy amount of adult presence in our students' lives. Could it be better? Definitely yes. But no one anywhere lives in a perfect world. However, I think that NCSSM does a very creditable job in this area, and its staff works very hard to keep improving in this area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.85.24.5 (talk) 22:13, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Ncmathsadist (talk) 22:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I cannot speak to the particulars in NCSSM. In my experience, however, brilliant math and science students are better behaved than average. I would find it strange if drug and disciplinary problems were roughly as commmon at NCSSM as at other North Carolina high schools. That said, the boarding school environment is a major source of temptation, and an opportunity for mischief. The city of Durham has had its full share of crime and other social problems. There is no wall or fence around the campus, which is a decommissioned hospital.Palnot (talk) 15:59, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

School News History
Any thoughts on if certain time the school made news in the past are WP:notable? Such as when an SLI raped a student?

New Chancellor
Dr. Todd Roberts came to the campus in the Fall of 2010 to become chancellor of NCSSM. Much of the controversy generated by the previous chancellor seems to be diminishing. Ncmathsadist (talk) 01:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Is he paid substantially less than Boardman?Palnot (talk) 15:54, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

He is paid somewhat less and does not take a lot of the perks accepted by the former chancellor. He is a fair-minded, decent sort of person who sincerely wants to do well by the school. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.173.134.220 (talk) 01:26, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Watts hospital
The entry is silent about a major historical fact: the physical plant and grounds of NCSSM are the former Watts hospital, built in 1922. A boarding school strikes me as a good use for a hospital past its use by date.Palnot (talk) 16:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

This article on Watts Hospital gives a lot of historical background on the hospital and its role in the life of Durham, NC. Ncmathsadist (talk) 01:28, 29 January 2012 (UTC)ncmathsadist

Still fully funded?
The history section starts with


 * Since its inception in 1980, NCSSM has been fully funded by the state, meaning no student is required to pay any tuition, room, board, or other student fees.

But later it says


 * However, the tuition waiver has been phased out in the Appropriations Act of 2009 in the North Carolina Senate in order to balance the budget. The bill states that "No new recipients shall be funded after June 30, 2009." 

One of these must be wrong and should be deleted or modified. Loraof (talk) 16:42, 13 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The tuition waiver mentioned was for graduates who attended a UNC system school (tuition for four years was paid for), not a cost associated with attending NCSSM. The last class to receive it under its initial run was the class of 2010, but a version of it was later reinstated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.79.153.60 (talk) 17:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)