Talk:Northeast Kingdom

Aiken Quote
Can't find it on the web, but in the 50s, 60s and 70s, it was well known that Aiken was well aware that legislators from the Northeast Kingdom caucused and voted together as a bloc, much to the consternation of the rest of the legislature. Before one-man, one-vote, this was a substantial leg up for whatever proposed legislation they supported. This is why he referred to it as a "Kingdom." For "scenic beauty," he would have used the term "vista" or "park" or somesuch. "Kingdom" denoted political dominance, not "beauty!" Unfortunately the error has propagated itself on the web like any urban myth. A reference in hard copy from the 50s, 60s or 70s will have to be found.Student7 21:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If Aiken intended the comment to be scenic, as some have claimed, then the description could extend to parts of Lamoille County and parts of New Hampshire, particularly Grafton, but probably not to Quebec. If, however, he meant the comment as political, as others have claimed, then the description must be restricted to the three counties mentioned which voted conservatively, in bloc, against Aiken's liberal allies, back before one-man, one vote. Student7 (talk) 18:23, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The quote was after Aiken had toured the three county region and spoke to a delegation at Lyndoville's Darling Inn. The term just struck a chord with the residents and has been used since. People arguing about "what it means" is laughable. It has no deeper meaning than a geographical description of the three counties. It's like the loonies latching onto Daddy Bush's offhand remark in a speech referring to a "New World Order" crying secret government conspiracy. Please people, stop looking for deep meaning where there is none —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mack05819 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

National Geographic Quote
Okay, maybe the quote belongs in Wikitravel, but how often does a small rural area get the attention of a famous organization?Student7 03:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Geologic history
It may not be that important to many, but a bunch of the stuff in the geologic section does not seem right; the claim that there were volcanoes involved in the creation of granite and marble in the NEK couldn't be true (since those types of rocks do not come from volcanoes), and the sources provided do not support the claim of volcanoes in the region either. Unless someone can provide some evidence of those various claims in the geology section soon, I'm going to delete them and rewrite it so it is more geologically accurate. Vter4life 01:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I removed marble, which is directly caused by pressure on limestone. That was perhaps concurrently produced from limestone when "great pressure" caused volcanoes. If somebody else wants to put a reference for marble and put it back in, fine. I put in a reference for granite which is from igneous rock.Student7 01:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I've added some detail on the "volcanoes" aspect, with a geological reference. There are no marble sources in the NEK but there sure is granite. I'll build in more, gradually. Working at updates. BethPoet (talk) 20:08, 29 December 2015 (UTC)BethPoet

Boundaries of NEK
If you accept Scott Wheeler's (editor of Northland Journal) interpretation of the Aiken quote, the NEK could be anything up to and including parts of New Hampshire and maybe even Canada and parts of Lamoille county. In the past 4 or 5 decades, it has been generally accepted as a political and geographical unit of Vermont, precisely the northeastern three counties and not including anything from NH at all! Student7 11:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Benoit Quote
Please refer to the following book which provides very accurate details of the term's historical references and sources: -- The Vermont Encyclopedia (2003) by John J. Duffy, Samuel B. Hand, Ralph H. Orth. (Beginning on page 217, through the first paragraph of page 218 includes detailed information.)

REF: Google Books Search: Vermont Encyclopedia "Northeast Kingdom" 24.60.131.104 (talk) 23:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)S Benoit

Square mile --> km²
When indicating an amount per square mile, the correct equivalent would be to display the number per km², not amount per 2.6 km².

1.75 per square mile is 0.676 per km², not 1.75 per 2.6 km². Likewise, 1.75 per km² is 4.533 per square mile, not 1.75 per 0.386 square miles. mdkarazim (talk) 20:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

NGOs
NGOs probably control a lot more money than the state funded county offices. This would include:

"An NGO, the Northeastern Vermont Development Association helps communities with planning, obtaining grants, and other issues relating to government.NVDA"

These need to be in a subsection. Once there are sufficient numbers, they can be forked to their own article. They control millions of dollars in the state, if not the county. Student7 (talk) 17:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * NVDA is not a NGO, it is a political subdivision of the state as are all RPCs & EDCs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.240.128.85 (talk) 13:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * What is a "RPC" and "EDC" in English?
 * How does a self-perpetuating board differ from a "state" board? Shouldn't a "state" board have political appointees? Who are they (What positions do they fill?). Where does it say that NVDA is a political subdivision of the state?
 * Please do not erase material on the discussion page you do not agree with. Student7 (talk) 19:32, 17 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that the city (and probably other towns as well) appoints someone to the board. Are town appointed members the only members? Wouldn't seem to be a state board but possibly not an NGO either if that is the case. Student7 (talk) 01:18, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The Regional Planning Commission and the Economic Commissions are created by the legislature. They are members of the League of Cities & towns, receiving the same benefits that towns and cities Though each agency is limited to their assigned task. RPC's deal with land use planning & EDCs deal with economic development. RPC & EDC boards consist of a representative appointed by the selectboard for each town. Also members of the board are state senate & house members, there are also representatives at large for each county. As a governing agency, RPCs have automatic status in any ACT250 hearings, the same as a town.
 * As to others erasing your material, you need to stick to facts and not spout opinion. Wikipedia, at it's best, is supposed to be a source for factual information, not political & social opinion. From the way you write, I too would be tempted to dump the inflammatory rhetoric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mack05819 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Please sign your comments using 4 tildes. ~
 * Please WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Be WP:CIVIL. Do not delete others comments. See WP:SIGCLEAN.
 * "Inflammatory rhetoric?" What are you talking about?
 * "Facts" are what we are trying to determine here. If I knew the facts, I would be entering them in the article with citations, and not trying to discuss them here.
 * You have, or have copied, facts here that, if true, should be presented at some higher level article. As in most states, there are high level articles, Governor, Cabinet, etc and a few cabinet or agency articles. Then there are town articles with very little in between to tie them together.
 * It appears to me that these agencies are still corporations, established by the state (as are all corporations, private or public). They are on their own. If the state runs short, the agency has to scramble to fill its budget from private donations or the town or the federal government, just like any other 501c3 organization. There is no direct connection to the state. They do not take orders from the "State Planning Commission" or "Human Resources Committee" or whatever. They are autonomous. I agree that they must appoint certain people to their board. In other words, they must follow their corporate charter. But all corporations have to do that. I agree that they may not be NGOs, though they may resemble them since they are not strictly governmental either because they accept private money and do not take dictation from the state (beyond following their charter).
 * If you can prove the opposite, please feel free to do so. Student7 (talk) 02:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * http://www.sec.state.vt.us/municipal/pubs/who%27swho.html
 * http://economicdevelopment.vermont.gov/Resources/GeneralInformation/RegionalDevelopmentCorporations/tabid/265/Default.aspx
 * http://www.vapda.org/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.39.78.242 (talk) 16:01, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Flatlanders
I was born and raised in Vermont, and the use of the term "flatlander" is by no means confined to the Northeast Kingdom. It's used throughout Vermont to describe anyone, other than native Vermonters, whose customary abode is outside of the state. The cited page makes no reference to the Northeast Kingdom at all. Given the fact that the use of the term is not a unique characteristic of the NEK, I think the sentence Residents refer to outsiders, especially those from outside of Vermont, as "flatlanders." should be deleted. AKeenEye 16:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Do any of the sources confirm statements in the lead paragraph?
Are these statements confirmed? "The Northeast Kingdom is the northeast corner of the U.S. state of Vermont, comprising Essex, Orleans and Caledonia counties and having a population at the 2010 census of 64,764. In Vermont, the written term "NEK" is often used. ... The area is often referred to by Vermonters simply as "The Kingdom""

Did the 2010 census report the population of the Northeast Kingdom, or is the figure 64,764 really original research obtained from adding the populations of the three counties presumably (but not confirmed) making up the Northeast Kingdom? Parabolooidal (talk) 15:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know where the figures came from, but simple addition is allowed and does not, of themselves, constitute WP:OR. I've challenged additions of more numerous places before. And lost! Student7 (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2014 (UTC)