Talk:Northern Catalonia

[Untitled]
Current Rosselló and/or Northern Catalonia should be rewritten. I would stress Rosselló as a comarca and the historical county (they could also be separated). Northern Catalonia in the context of Catalan Countries after Treaty of Pyrenees and especially when this denomination was first born. Toniher 18:13, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that the three current articles (Northern Catalonia, Roussillon and Rosselló (comarca)) are OK. The only problem I see is that their titles are not appropiate. I would rename Roussillon into County of Rosselló and I would rename Rosselló (comarca) into simply Rosselló. I also think that a Rosselló (disambiguation) page is needed. It could be merged with Roussillon (disambiguation) but it has to improve.--SMP - talk page (en) - talk page (ca) 16:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Rosselló and Northern Catalonia
IMHO, the only possible synonym for Northern Catalonia is French Catalonia. Rosselló only refers to part of the territory under discussion, and may also refer to a former county and vegueria and present-day comarca. Since Rosselló is the largest territory, some refer to the whole territory as Rosselló, but it is simply incorrect. For instance, Rosselló != Cerdanya. This may be explained and corrected in all the different articles, but I think there is no need of introducing more confusion as would represent merging these two articles.

Taking into account the territory:

Pyrénées-Orientales = Northern Catalonia + Fenolheda = Rosselló + (Half) Cerdanya + ... + Fenolheda.

Toniher 10:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I support Toniher opinion, but I would add:
 * Pyrénées-Orientales = Northern Catalonia + Fenolheda = Roussillon (county) + County of Cerdanya (only a part of it) = Rosselló (comarca) + Conflent + ... + Alta Cerdanya + Fenolheda.
 * --SMP - talk page (en) - talk page (ca) 16:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As nobody has supported the opinion of merge the two articles, I will remove the template.--SMP - talk page (en) - talk page (ca) 16:44, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Map
The map used on this page seems pretty useless, since it provides no geographic context, scale or reference to present borders. It would be helpful to see where this area is with respect to the more generally-recognized French"Hexagone." 216.227.122.37 06:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Is this name actually used in English? Isn't this a POV fork of Roussillon?
I've never come across this name in English. Roussillon is generally the term used for the area when it was part of France before the revolution, even if it includes territory not part of the original County of Roussillon. Given that the article Roussillon is on exactly the same subject, isn't this a POV fork? john k 12:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

And note that Roussillon is not incorrect. Cerdagne was certainly part of the French province of Roussillon. Sometimes "Roussillon and Cerdagne" is used, and sometimes just "Roussillon." The fact that the meaning of geographical referents can change and expand does not mean that the newer formulation is wrong. john k 12:07, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Per the comments above, it seems to be different in my understanding... &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) 12:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Roussillon has several meanings. One of those meanings is equivalent to "Northern Catalonia".  The French province of Roussillon was exactly the same as "Northern Catalonia."  Earlier definitions of Roussillon may have been smaller, but this does not seem relevant to me. john k 14:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If Roussillon has more than one meaning, and Northern Catalonia has only one, then I'd advocate keeping them separate, since Northern Catalonia is apparently the more precise term... No? &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) 12:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * info : fr:Roussillon is a disambiguation page Alvaro 18:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "Northern Catalonia" is only use by some anti-France activists. It is not a "neutral" term. The article should talk about that point. Clio64B 10:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not true. It is the normal term (without political subsenses) in use in Catalonia. There is a story behind its use, which is what this article tries to explain. The term Rousillon is neither precise (it can refer to a county, a vegueria, a province or a geographical area, none of which are exactly contemporaneous, as well as being a part of the name Languedoc-Rousillon, among others), nor particularly well known in English. Physchim62 (talk) 13:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * +1 last october I was near Carcassonne. Reading a local newspapers (fr:Presse écrite régionale en France), I found fr:Catalogne nord more times.
 * it was not an independantist newspaper. it was a Presse écrite régionale en France (local newspaper in France). the national press is also called the parisian press in France. this parisian press is the only known outside France (and in Paris ;-)
 * a local newspaper (i don't remember the name) similar to the fr:Le Télégramme de Brest, where you can find, each thursday, one page in en:Breton language. identité culturelle (cultural identity ?), no more. that's my pov Alvaro 15:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "normal" term? give me a break... WP should be "neutral" and that kind of articles are not. I didn't ask to erase that article, but just explain what is the history of that term... Did you know, for exemple, that is was invented in the XXth century... Clio64B 14:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * hmmm... Pokémon, Television... were also invented in the XXth century ;D
 * the term exisits, at least in french. the question : the reality under the term exists ? i think so 20/80 -/+ Alvaro 17:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You will, of course, give a reference for this "invention" in due course, I'm sure :) Physchim62 (talk) 14:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

sorry, I was off topic. what can i say : the term catalogne Nord exists in french. i can't answer to the question Is this name actually used in English? Alvaro 15:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is an example of its recent use in French (not that I'm pretending that such as use is common). Physchim62 (talk) 15:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This a question by an "anti-France activist" who ask for independance of that land for the school and langague questions... In France, every schools follow the same rules, and those activists try to to break that rule. They are dreamers... Clio64B 14:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not every school in France follows the same rules. écoles privées sous contract are allowed to provided bilingual education, and to allow students to wear an islamic veil in class, if they so wish. Please make more constructive comments. Physchim62 (talk) 14:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Your ultra-jacobinist ideology doesn't let you think properly. Because of intolerant people like you Catalan language was banned in the whole Northern Catalonia. On behalf of the holy French Republic those who spoke Catalan were called "dirty". Indeed, the French authorities used to remind the Catalan kids to literally be pure and speak in French ("Soyez propres, parlez français" the French genocidals used to say), otherwise they were punished for speaking such an ugly dialect, weren't they Clio? Children were made to speak in French at school because otherwise they were considered anti-French, as you are doing now with those who just want to attend school in their own language. They are dreamers, but you are just a f* nazi.

--Mreq (talk) 18:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

New Edition
As this article had lots of wrong facts, incorrect namings (i.e. Rossellò is a Catalan name and the English Roussillon should be used), a Catalan PoV instead than neutral and a complete lack of accuracy and respect for the Occitan language (called Catalan in this article), I re-edited almost the whole content to a less pro-catalan biased description. It does now also have links to the official names of the region. Maurice27 15:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to ask for your opinion of this new edit. I would like to ask the "pro-catalan crusaders" to explain the imperative use of Rossellò instead of the english correct Roussillon. Maurice27 15:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I do not know if you are real or a joke from someone. I am going to revert all the vandalizing you have doing in several Catalan related pages. However, I will try to respect all the positive contributions you may have made. The Occitan references are simply hilarious. Occitan is traditionally spoken in Fenolloda, but not in the rest of the department. Even some towns of the Fenolleda are traditionally Catalan-speaking. As an annotation, I attach a link and one text from the very General Council: http://www.cg66.fr/culture/catalanite/
 * Nothing else to say. Toniher 23:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I'm not a joke, and you should call your acts vandalizing instead of what I am doing myself. Unless you prove with links that (i.e the official name is Rossellò in Catalan instead of Rousillon) and so many other catalan biased facts, you are the one vandalizing.

I will not... I repeat, I will not tolerate this pro-catalan acting towards my home country!!!

This said, I would like to kindly ask all the contributors which feel the "urgent need" to fool and fill the Wikipedia world with Pan-Catalanism, Catalan Countries wannabe, Catalan nationalism and just plain false pseudo-Catalan History to restraint themselves from doing it. Not all the surrounding lands to Catalonia feel the need to become part of it, and the english Wikipedia will not become a highway to "export" their history "a la carte". Giving for right the fact that we should not generalize, I often wonders if these people suffer from the well-known "Catalan Small Penis Syndrome" (Are we allowed to say "penis"?)

WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A PRO-CATALAN POLITICAL PAMPHLET

P.D. I attach a link and one text in Catalan from the very institut Ramon Llull in Santiago de Chile: http://www.llull.cat/llull/estatic/xile05/cat/02fira/graella.shtm --> And, as far as I know, Catalan is not spoken in Chile. BTW, take your link about Catalinity in South France to the Élysée Palace just to see what happens...

Maurice27 23:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I you are referring to the historic comarca, it should be Rossellò. Otherwise, in pretty much any context I can think of, it should be Roussillon. This is similar to the Danzig/Gdansk issue. - Jmabel | Talk 19:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Pyrénées-Orientales, the name under which most English speakers would know it by... Physchim62 (talk) 14:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Maurice27 is goddamn right spanish and french catalans are well known for their imperialism. france is not spain and will never allow what happened with now the autonomous region of catalonia. Paris By Night 21:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes indeed. The French genocidals really knew how to erase entire cultures, something that Spanish authorities tried several times without success (lucky the Catalans). That's the reason why nowadays you don't have problems in the Northern Catalonia. Good job, I'm sure Hitler learned a lot about your efficient methods to remove entire peoples and cultures. Ask the Algerians for instance...

--Mreq (talk) 18:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

pays catalans
I remove Pays catalans in the introductions. The french pays are much more smaller. And Pays catalans don't appear in Pays (France) nor in the more complete french equivalent : fr:Pays (aménagement du territoire). This term is not used in that sense. The term fr:pays catalans refers to Catalan Countries. Alvaro 11:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I added that link because the sense of Pays in the French term Pays catalans is the one that is linked to. It is not the same as the Catalan Pais in Pais catalans, obviously, but I think it is correct in context. Physchim62 (talk) 15:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * hmmm... just have a look on fr:wikt:pays : seven meanings ;D (english wikt:pays refers just to one meaning : wikt:country).
 * you could say something like pays poitevin instead of Poitou or pays breton / Bretagne. but, afaik, it's something very rarely used.
 * the new bureaucratic meaning (Pays (France)) is more used. i say new, but some modern and bureaucratic Pays can have true historical/social... background. Alvaro 17:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Pays Catalan (SINGULAR) is a normally used French term.
 * Some sources: http://www.cg66.fr/bienvenue/pays_catalan/index.html
 * http://www.pyreneesorientalestourisme.com/
 * It's mostly used for touristic purposes.
 * Toniher 21:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * +1 touristic purposes. Alvaro 16:03, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Pays (France) last paragraph: "In this context, the French term pays is not used in the modern sense of "country" but preserves the original meaning of the Latin word from which it was derived, pagus, which designated the territory controlled by a medieval count. The majority of pays are roughly coextensive with the old counties". Weren't these territories precisely old medieval counties? Maurice27 22:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would be happy to have it in the singular as well, but is a term that is used in French, and should therefore be in the article... Physchim62 (talk) 17:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is used, but... pays catalan... not so much. i've seen on a bottle of (cheap) wine vin du pays catalan. i think pays catalan is not very used, but more than northern Catalonia. i think, no more, i'm not sure ;D Alvaro 16:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC) touristic purposes, cf. above

Principality of Catalonia
The presently known territory of Northern Catalonia was actually the most northern part of the former Principality of Catalonia, that is, Catalonia. So, It was then under jurisdiction of Generalitat de Catalunya. I consider this should be reflected in the introduction, and not avoided as it seems now. Of course, French regime after the Treaty (both under monarchy and republic) wanted to close all possible ties with the Southern part the more the better (Catalan language forbidden, Catalan Generalitat without jurisdiction there, naming of the territory, etc.). This may be explained in the article as well. By the way, thanks Physchim62 for adapting some content from the Catalan version. It was long I wanted to do it, but I found no time. There is still more content to be added, also from other articles related which have a lot of info of that territory and are highly expanded in Catalan Wikipedia. Toniher 21:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * " the Catalonian territory ceded to France by the Crown of Aragon in 1659 after the Treaty of the Pyrenees" is not enough? Maurice27 21:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope. I think it's a good idea to make the world know what the French authorities did in the Northern Catalonia after the Treaty of the Pyrenees. Maybe a special section for the Catalan language persecution would be suitable. "Soyez propres, parlez français" was what the French teachers told the Catalan children at school. I don't give a f* if you don't like it. It's just history.--Mreq (talk) 19:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Cerdania
It's obviously not the English name, but a typo from Cerdanya. Toniher 21:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ohhhh now you do know more than a english native speaker, right? []; Maurice27 21:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am the native English speaker who put it in, it is not a typo! On the other hand, it is deliberate PoV (I made the word up, to get some reaction about it)! It is a perfectly logical English construction, but if people prefer "Cerdanya/Cerdagne" or "Cerdagne/Cerdagne" then that is more than fine with me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Physchim62 (talk • contribs) 17:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

Certainly we should not use this neologism. - Jmabel | Talk 18:18, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Additions
After Physchim62's great work improving the article and Toniher's addition of the new LanguageS section, I made some changes:
 * 1) I change the old "catalan countries" template for the new one made by Xtv which refers specially to the Catalan language. Again, Tio de Nadal, Joan Miro, Valencia, Andorra or Salvador Dali have nothing to do in this article.
 * 2) In the LanguageS (yes, in plural), I have explained which are the schools giving the bilingual education. Those are private schools and even a foundation, but in no way public ones. This is to explain, that education is still given in French, being Catalan an optative language for 99% of the students.
 * 3) Cerdania/Cerdanya: Again, This is English wikipedia. If there is a word in english, it should be used. Therefore Cerdania is to be used.
 * 4) Treaty of the Pyrenees: As it is already explained in "Administrative history" section why the redundancy in the lead paragraph?
 * 5) Catalogne du Nord: This is a term not used (ok...maybe by a negligeable 0,2% of the pop) in France, therefore "is only very rarely used" is the way to be described. In France, the term "Roussillon" is usually preferred and "Pyrénées-Orientales" is the correct one.

--Maurice27 00:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Re point 5: can I go on record as agreeing with Maurice27 :P point 3 is dealt with above; as for point 4, I feel that the Treaty of the Pyrenees should also be in the introductory paragraph. I am trying to get up-to-date statistics on education in the Pyrénées-Orientales, until then I reserve comment (1997 stats indicate that (very roughly) 5% of the age group in the Pyrénées-Orientales sat a baccalaureate exam in Catalan, which would indicate about 20–25% 'knowledge' among 18-year olds in the département: I need better figures to to a better analysis :) Physchim62 (talk) 17:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to say that according to your idea of using Catalan naming for pre-revolutionary years and french for nowadays (which is quite interesting), Fenolheda should be called Fenouillèdes or ?Fenouilledes?. In the same way, the main article should also be called this way Maurice27 19:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I was only trying to get a balance between Catalan and French, not to complicate matters with questions of Occitan as well! As an Occitan speaker, you must be aware of the problems of Occitan orthography: myself, I am currently incapable of giving an opinion on orthography questions in the north-west of the Pyrénées-Orientales... Naming of the article in question should be discussed at Talk:Fenolheda, obviously :) Physchim62 (talk) 13:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

In this talk, both references to the school teaching in catalan in French Catalonia are far from reality. Since 1993 (école maternelle Jean Amade - Perpignan)it exist in the public schools a line of half french an half catalan studies. Since then, thousends of kids have been studying in those lines in PUBLIC schools (in 2008-2009 more than 12.000) http://trema.revues.org/956 More info about french public schools not in french http://www.flarep.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.79.76.244 (talk) 20:52, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Map caption
The area in green on the left-hand map is not just Roussillon, but also Vallespir and part of Cerdagne. If no one objects, I shall try to find a more accurate caption. Physchim62 (talk) 13:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Great! --Maurice27 16:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Northen Catalonia, as far as I know, includes Vallespir, Conflent, Rosselló, Alta Cerdanya and Capcir. Maybe it should be changed the name from the image and in spite of writting "the map at left shows Roussillon and Catalonia" should say "the map at left shows Northern Catalonia and Catalonia" (if you look, you can see that in the left image, Fenolleda is not included). The problem perhaps is to associate "Northern Catalonia" with "Rosselló". It's not the same, one is included in the other.--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 17:05, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, I forgot Conflent from my list. We can be historically correct in not specifically mentioning Capcir, which was a sotsvegueria of Conflent according to the Enciclopèdia Catalana. Physchim62 (talk) 15:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I understood you wrong and I thiught you wanted to put a map just from Rosselló not including the other territories of Northern Catalonia :-P For me it's ok if you find a clearer map. --Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 16:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with the map, which I think is important in this article, especially when combined with the second (P-O in France). I think it was me who placed them there, after a dispute many months ago! It was just the caption which I was worried about: we all seem to agree that we shouldn't be making things more confused by saying that Roussillon = Northern Catalonia, whichever period of history you're talking about. Physchim62 (talk) 17:13, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Globalize
As proven by a number of comments on this talk page, the examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject. Therefore, it is important to explain to non-related to Catalonia users this point. The existance of "Northern Catalonia" is teached nowhere but in Catalonia. Northern Catalonia is for the rest of humanity nothing else than "Southern France". --Maurice27 22:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you read the first line of the article, you can see "is sometimes used, particularly in Catalan writings" and also "The equivalent term in French, Catalogne du Nord, is only rarely used". I think this perspective is then properly explained and contextualized.--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 15:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That is absolutly fantastic! I'm glad we both agree that the template:Globalize must be included.--Maurice27 18:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

About the need for the Globalize tag
Dear colleagues,

I realize that this tag has been there for a very long time. Such kind of tags are a means to highlight important drawbacks in an article that should be settled. If this is the case here, then it should be clearly stated what are the issues to be solved. The comments made above didn't make it clear. I mean, even if it would be true that the "existence of Northern Catalonia is taught nowhere but in Catalonia. Northern Catalonia is for the rest of humanity nothing else than Southern France", I cannot infer from here what should be improved in the content of the article. Thanks. --Carles Noguera (talk) 10:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I hadn't notice that in fact Maurice has given some more explanation in an edit summary: "The lack of either French or Spanish view on the subject explains the reason for the tag to remain". So, could you please elaborate what kind of information about that is missing there? --Carles Noguera (talk) 12:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Just to summarize:


 * Why do Sport in Catalonia or Northern Basque Country links appear in the "See also" section? Those territories are not Catalonia or Euskal Herria...


 * Why is there only one link to enciclopèdia catalana in the external links? Why not a single one from a french encyclopedia?


 * Why the only media appearing in the article are catalan spoken ones? Not a single media in Roussillon uses french?


 * Why the only Associations appearing in the article are the ones dedicated to catalan or Catalonia? Not a single association in Roussillon uses french or is related to France?


 * Why the only essays appearing in the article are about declaring the population of this territory as Catalan? Not a single essay in history declares this population as french?


 * Why the only tag included is the "Catalan-speaking regions" one? Why isn't the "Member states and observers of La Francophonie" also included?


 * Why is this article included in the category "Divided regions"? As far as I know, Roussillon is perfectly integrated... In France!


 * If this territory was once pertaining to Spain, Why are some names only translated to Catalan (i.e Haute-Cerdagne (Catalan: Alta Cerdanya) or Perpignan (Perpinyà)) and not also to Spanish?


 * Why are names in Catalan (i.e: Rosselló, Cerdanya..) used in the text when this is the english wikipedia and the article is about a french territory?


 * If catalan is spoken by (only) 1/4 of the population, is it normal that the "Languages" section speaks about Catalan in a 90% of its total length?

This was only with a fast look... I could find more if wished... I hope, Carles, Politics apart, that you accept that the tag HAS to remain in order not to mislead readers about a false thinking that this territory is Catalonia instead than France. When all the points written above are corrected, then the tag should be removed. Cheers --MauritiusXXVII  (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 16:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Maurice! Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. In my opinion, some of your points are reasonable so the tag is justified. When I will have some time I'll try to address them. --Carles Noguera (talk) 09:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, Maurice, I am impressed. Your points above and the rethorical questions associated are definitely summarizing the question in a cold blood yet definitely effective manner. Some of them are just brilliant and virtually incontestable. I guess similar concerns apply to so many other articles...Congrats. Mountolive   le déluge 12:06, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * What is sad, dear Mounty, is that I believe that 99% of the times I edit articles or add comments on talk pages, it is with the very same spirit of neutrality and wishfulness for improving the quality of wikipedia articles. If I really was the "f***ing genocide and oppressing patriot" some people have called me here, I would have erased without asking in the article all the points explained above. If all those "catabrawlers" (was that the correct spelling?) could just ask like Carles does, I would be cheerful explaining my point... It is just that "per collons" I can't stand for... --MauritiusXXVII  (Aut Doce, Aut Disce, Aut Discede!) 19:31, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm gonna try to briefly answer some of your questions. Those ones I don't even mention should be considered as questions to satisfy.


 * Why is this article included in the category "Divided regions"? As far as I know, Roussillon is perfectly integrated... In France!
 * I don't think it is worth answering this question since you perfectly know the answer my dear. The article is included in the category of Divided Regions just because the so-called Northern Catalonia was separated from the rest of Catalonia three hundred and fifty years ago. Otherwise its name wouldn't be Northern CATALONIA, and its inhabitants wouldn't be considered as Catalans, the word they actually use to define themselves.


 * If this territory was once pertaining to Spain, Why are some names only translated to Catalan (i.e Haute-Cerdagne (Catalan: Alta Cerdanya) or Perpignan (Perpinyà)) and not also to Spanish?
 * Very simple. When the Northern Catalonia was separated from the rest of the Principality no one in such territory knew Spanish. Spanish was as foreign as French in the 17th century's Northern Catalonia. Indeed, the only language the population spoke was Catalan. Besides, no official language was defined in the Habsburg Crown, neither in the Principality of Catalonia, nor in the Kingdom of Castille. So it's absolutely nonsensical to translate into Spanish as you suggest. All the names must be both in Catalan, which is the original language of such territory, and in French, which is the official language.


 * Why are names in Catalan (i.e: Rosselló, Cerdanya..) used in the text when this is the english wikipedia and the article is about a french territory?
 * The Northern Catalonia is a French territory, and as pointed out in the name, a Catalan territory as well. So I'd ask you: Why not? I guess Catalan is not a foreign language in the French Catalonia, so either in French or in Catalan it's correct.


 * --Mreq (talk) 23:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

That tag should have never been placed at all. The article is fine apart from the tag which is merely an inappropriate demonstration of chauvinism. The questions of Maurice27 are rhetorical. Addressing them would not improve the article. Therefore I remove the tag. Otto (talk) 18:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And since you don't assume good faith in first place, you don't give any plausible explanation to your edit and there is still more people who agree to leave it, I re-add it. Next time, you should adress to the on-going discussion before making any controversial move (as we ALL do). --  MauritiusXXVII (  Aut Disce, Aut Doce, Aut Discede!  )   . 07:09, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Maurice, I did address the discussion already and invited by you do it here for a second time. You don't show good faith with your rhetorical questions. I will take the time to show that for the first three questions. The rest is more of the same.

1. Why do Sport in Catalonia or Northern Basque Country links appear in the "See also" section? Those territories are not Catalonia or Euskal Herria...
 * This is merely a question about the relevance of certain links. It has nothing to do with the quality of the body of the article.

2. Why is there only one link to enciclopèdia catalana in the external links? Why not a single one from a french encyclopedia?
 * Again a question about circumstantial information and not the body of the article.

3. Why the only media appearing in the article are catalan spoken ones? Not a single media in Roussillon uses french?
 * Again an irrelevant question. Not the language but the reliability of the source is of importance.

Your irrelevant, rhetorical questions are just a masquerade for the fact that you just don't like the subject of the article, which you are sabotaging now by putting an ugly tag on it. Otto (talk) 11:21, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And again I ask you to assume good faith. --   MauritiusXXVII (  Aut Disce, Aut Doce, Aut Discede!  )   . 19:53, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As per Wikipedia's guidelines, the only minor cultural bias I found is the following As is common, the present-day arrondissements do not correspond to pre-Revolutionary boundaries. which one has to be aware of French history to know what revolution the writer talks about. I agree that the tag should not have been placed. It seems most users wanted it removed. Correjon (talk) 17:19, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the tag, this article as it is now does not need globalization. Correjon (talk) 17:36, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Pays catalan
See also previous talk Pays catalans, where I wrote « i think pays catalan is not very used » but I'm not so sure, 3 years later; Pays catalan is now used here: www.cg66.fr, the Conseil général website, also on the Tourist information site. As far as I understand, it's just for touristic purposes. Alvar ☮ 's saloon. 02:06, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Language: North Catalan or Standard Catalan?
The language paragraph says, "Catalan language could be taken 1 hour per week in secondary school. In the 1970s [...] network of private schools started to offer complete bilingual French/Catalan classes from nursery up to secondary education[3]." Was the language taught the North or standard version? Politis (talk) 12:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Pays catalan 3
I was brought to this page from the Hugo Lloris article via. Is there any reason why the first sentence should not include the words "also known as the Pays Catalan "? It seems to me that it was removed in 2007 because it was pipelinked to Pays (France), but I can see no reason why removing the pipelink should mean also removing the words. The term is commonly used in France, as was said by Alvaro two paragraphs up. 2001:BB6:4703:4A58:EDB8:E1A7:A5EC:2A38 (talk) 20:34, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Fake news
This article is shocking there is no such thing as Northern Cataluña, only in some independentists' mind! Keep yourself to Spain, leave French territories alone thanks! 213.151.114.50 (talk) 13:26, 25 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Please go away. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:49C1:4458:E3A3:CB83 (talk) 08:17, 21 December 2023 (UTC)