Talk:Northern Renaissance

Focus?
To me this article seems more focused on talking about the renaissance in general. It doens't list many things having that singularly have to deal with the Northern Renaissance. 67.85.76.255 02:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree, information seems to be mixed with all forms of the Renaissance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.204.243 (talk) 09:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Just found this page and there was a major mistake/error in the lead paragraph mentioning China, george washington and other gibberish. I salvaged it, but the entire article needs better focus. The point, as I see it, is that the "Northern European" Renaissance of the 16-17th centuries, in contrast to the earlier "North Italian" Renaissance (roughly 14-15-early 16th centuries), was more focused on innovations in science, technology, religion and philosophy. People not mentioned here who should be are Erasmus, Martin Luther, Jean Calvin, Nicolaus Copernicus, Johannes Kepler, Rene Descartes, Isaac Newton and probably others I'm not thinking of right now. Yd&#39;weissen (talk) 19:24, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for removing the nonsense (which had only been there 3 hours, btw). The article is pretty poor, but I don't really agree the Northern Renaissance is "more focused on innovations in science, technology, religion and philosophy".  Erasmus is mentioned in the lead, as is the Reformatiuon as a whole, & Newton is certainly too late to be Renaissance. But others are missing. Johnbod (talk) 22:24, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Influence of Reformation
I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to edit this article, but it seems a bit odd to say that the Northern Renaissance painters were influenced by the Protestant Reformation when most of those mentioned were old men or even dead when Luther or Calvin were born. Maybe one could say that they were influenced by the sentiments eventually leading to the Protestant Reformation? Junes 09:41, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's true that the Protestant Reformation came after the bulk of the Renaissance, but most of what I've seen indicates the Northern Renaissance was truely rising after the Italian Renaissance declined from the wars and economic shifts from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic due to the Age of Discovery, this taking place during the late 15th century (the French invasion which really killed the Italian Renaissance was 1494 I believe). Many sources put the end of the Renaissance as a whole at 1550, while the Protestant Reformation was gaining momentum in the early 1500s, and Martin Luther posting his 95 Thesis in 1517. The Renaissance advent of humanism really created dissent within the Catholic and the moving forces of the Protestant Reformation fell while the Renaissance was losing momentum, was still a powerful force. Take Erasmus for instance, his works are typically lumped with the Renaissance, but his most famous work, In Praise of Folly, wasn't written until 1509 and satirized the ignorance and superstition of the Catholic church and he was a mover during the Reformation, but gets little credit because he thought the change should be gradual unlike Luther. It's easy to say this age ends while this begins at this date but it is never the truth, movements over lap. I can't think of a specific artist influenced by the Reformation though (especially considering most reformers were iconoclastic), so his statement may very well be inaccurate.--Antipas 04:19, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Influence of Italy
The opening paragraph is highly subjective. The Renaissance developed throughout Europe allotropically; Northerners didn't depend on the Italians so much as suggested. I changed the first sentence.

Onyourkeaster 01:42, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * First off I have no idea what the word allotropically means, and neither do any of my dictionaries so I don't think it should be used in the encyclopedia. Also I don't think your statement is correct. The links are in many cases quite clear. The French Renaissance began with the direct import of Renaissance art and artists from Italy. In Germany, many of the early leaders of the German Renaissance were those who had traveled to Italy to study, and brought these ideas home. - SimonP 01:56, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

"I don't think your statement is correct."

Because you don't know what a word means and despite new research negating your opinion, you change the entry back. Nice. At least you phrased your opinion as such instead of as a fact. Onyourkeaster

Burgundy/Low Countries
Why are there articles about the renaissance in France, Germany, England and Poland but not about Burgundy and the Low Countries? Culturally this region was at least as important. Does anyone agree or disagree? Shall we create this article or does anything similar exist already? I don't find much about culture in articles such as Duchy of Burgundy, Burgundian Netherlands, Seventeen Provinces, Low Countries etc. There will be more than enough material though. Piet 11:45, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that this is are a major gap in our coverage, especially the lack of an article on the Low Countires, which were quite central to the Northern Renaissance. - SimonP 15:25, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Let's start it then. But I am not sure what the appropriate name would be. In analogy of "French renaissance" etc. I thought "Burgundian renaissance" as the Low Countries in this period were a part of Burgundy. Other possibilities would be "Netherlandish renaissance" (as in Early Netherlandish painting - see discussion on Talk page), or even "Flemish renaissance" as Flanders was central. But I think neither of these three names would mean much to an English-speaking audience. In fact maybe Renaissance in the Low Countries would be best, although it would stand out a bit in the list. Opinions? Piet 16:46, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I am starting a Draft. Feel free to work on it. Piet 10:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * There, it's finished. In the end I decided on Renaissance in the Netherlands after all. Piet 22:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Printing press / vernacular
"The creation of the printing press also encouraged authors to write in the local vernacular rather than in the classical languages of Greek and Latin . . ."

How, exactly, did it encourage this? It's completely unclear what about the printing press made people want to write in the vernacular. Bertieismyho 19:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Population Control
In Outline: "The slow demise of feudalism also weakened a long-established policy in which church officials helped keep the population of the manor under control in return for tribute." Does anyone have a source or more info on this? 71.198.180.224 03:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

French renaissance
firstly, France is not situated in northern Europe!!...

The history of renaissance (and its expression) in France has nothing to see with what it have been later in northern Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 (talk) 22:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Geographically speaking, France is a central/southern European country (60% of France is in line with Italy in terms of latitudes, only 30% of it is in line with southern Germany), culturally latin/catholic with its roots in the mediterranean area! nothing to do in the northern Europe category ! The renaissance did spread itself in France not in the same time and not at all in the same way and same spirit than in northern European countries. Northern Europe describe the countries with a germanic/protestant cultural main background, which is defnintly not the case at all for France.

Pictures of Poland?
Why are half of the pictures on this page of Polish architecture when the "Polish Renaissance" has its own page (on which those pictures are repeated)? The lead implies that it doesn't make sense to lump Poland in with the rest of Northern Europe in this context because of the direct transfer of the Renaissance to Poland by Italian artists. What gives?--66.65.150.93 (talk) 15:54, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Too much talk of the Italian influence
Here as elsewhere is the traditional assertion of a particular point of view: that the Northern Renaissance was more or less the spread of the Italian Renaissance north (rudely put, but clearly there). There are references to the Italian influence throughout this article.

This is an increasingly debated point, and the argument of "presentism" against seems to have some weight. But the debate is beside the point. A better expression of the two movements is to describe the particular character of the Northern Renaissance without continual reference to the Italian in almost every sentence. At the end, or at least in only one place, the influences between the two are worth a separate item.

As it sits, this article says not enough about the particular character of the Northern, and too much about the Italian.

--174.7.33.239 (talk) 00:31, 6 August 2010 (UTC)