Talk:Northstar (character)

Swimisuit
Do we really need that picture of Northstar in the swimsuit issue? It does not seem relevant in any way, especially in the sexuality section. 24.218.65.219 16:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Wertham
"Comics have long contained hints and innuendos about the sexual orientation of many heroes. In the 1950s, anti-comic activist Frederic Wertham imagined that there was homoeroticism in Batman's relationship with Robin, his then teenage sidekick. Writers at DC Comics utterly rejected this characterization of their characters as an unfounded attack. Over the years the writers of Batman at DC comics have consistently held to one overriding relationship between Batman/Bruce Wayne and the first Robin/Dick Grayson, and that was a father-son type relationship."
 * Moved from the page. Where to put it? PMC 21:01, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Crypto-sexuality has no place on this page and Wertham's not a RS. It's like quoting Joe McCarthy about Communism. Northstar's gay. AF #106 makes that apparent.


 * Wertham was a moral panic type. If you look hard enough for something you'll generally find it. He was on target with the bodybuilding magazines (having actually seen some vintage ones along with other vintage porn, I can safely say that they did seem to be cryto-porn targeted towards gay men. I strongly doubt there was any trickery though - anyone who bought them was likely a gay adult.


 * A lot of the crime comics (which were basically that era's GTA) were being sold to kids, too (despite the fact there was no proof it caused criminality since he only surveyed boys in reform school about whether they'd read comics), but then he started seeing vice in even the most harmless of places. I think Disney comics show up at one point in the Seduction of the Innocent. 74.68.7.200 (talk) 06:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

recent edits
Firstly, I am not sure why we need to make “Northstar” a section heading when it is the name of the article.

Secondly, I tried to put the description of his superpowers in more layman terms.

Thirdly, I like the Byrne comments. They help readers understand his intentions in making the character gay and how he slipped his homosexuality under the radar, but do we need to print verbatim everything Byrne said, especially considering that a lot of it deals with fledging out the Alpha Flight characters in general and perceiving the others as straight? I do think it would be good if someone could provide a link to that post. But I don’t think the article needs all of it. --70.20.74.137 23:56, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2044&KW --DrBat 12:15, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Mantlo
Mantle also attempted to explain some of Northstar’s more gay-seeming traits by revealing that he and Aurora were actually members of a fairy race, but this later was retconed

No, he was making fun of Northstar's sexuality (a fairy is a derogatory term for a gay man). After Marvel wouldnt let Mantlo off Northstar via AIDS, he did that and wrote him off the book. --DrBat 12:20, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Marvel killing Northstar in three seperate timelines

 * This month was notable for Marvel killing Northstar in three seperate timelines within the space of one calendar month, between the 16th of February and the 9th of March 2005 (as well as W25, the new version of the Age of Apocalypse and X-Men: The End). This is believed to be unheard of in Marvel Comics. It is possible that this may have just been a coincidence, however.

Do we need this? It implies homophobia on Marvel's part which was not the case.First of all, most writers write their issues ahead of time so titles usually dont coincide with events (i.e.Colossus has been back for several months yet the Uncanny issue that deals with his return has yet to come out).
 * Wolverine #25-Northstar didnt stay dead for one issue.
 * X-Men: The End-Characters have been killed off since the first issue. Northstar had a pretty good death, also. Dying and then being reunited with Alpha Flight.
 * AOA-In the AoA universe, Northstar and Aurora were villains (along with a Mengele-type Beast and Havok, who killed his own brother). We also had a mentally unstable Colossus who ended up killing Kitty Pryde. Northstar being a villain in that timeline wasnt homophobic (and the original series was written by Lobdell, who outed Northstar). Nor was the AoA Wolverine killing Northstar (and didnt NS resemble Nosferatu in the new AOA mini?)--DrBat 23:34, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * coincidence or not, it's noteworthy. no homophobia on marvel's part need be implied; we can just mention the unusual timing. -leigh (&#966;&#952;&#8057;&#947;&#947;&#959;&#962;) 04:07, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Exactly, which is why I put it in. Whatever the motives (even if it is a complete accident), it's a noteworthy fact in any article about a character - SoM 17:31, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ultimate Northstar
Whoever changed the picture, it wasn't working so I changed it back. --Leelan 19:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Northstar and Rogue
I recently put up a paragraph regarding Rogue finding out about Northstar's previous gay secret prior to him officially coming out, including panel art. This was deleted with the following reasoning: "not really relevant; the scene with Rogue wasnt the only thing that hinted at Northstar's orientation". I'm not arguing that this was the only hint at Northstar's orientation, but it is definately a valid one. It is important as Rogue was one of the first significant characters to find out about Jean-Paul's hidden life. His having Rogue to talk to about it (albet through indirect conversation) in the X-Men/Alpha Flight Special was one of the first steps Northstar took in accepting that part of himself. (Very good writing on Chris Claremont's part) A good majority of Northstar's storylines prior to Alpha Flight #106 never allowed one to focus in this area too much. Artemisboy 00:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I saw the paragraph and didn't see anything irrelevent about it. If it's an issue of space (as this is a long article), perhaps the description of that scene could be shortened and another scene--AF #7 when JP takes his sister to meet Raymonde--could be added. That way, the paragraph would maximize space but would point to a couple of different ways writers found to hint at JP's sexuality during a time when open portrayals of homosexuality weren't allowed in Marvel. Breakaway 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Has it ever been addressed again in comics, either by Rogue or Northstar? No. The characters probably havent even appeared together besides this ish.
 * Were there other scenes that implied Northstar's sexuality? Yes. Then what makes this scene so special? It wasnt the first, either.
 * Its not of anything of particular importance, and I dont think it was "one of the first steps Northstar took in accepting that part of himself". Furthermore, I dont think he ever did have a problem with accepting himself. He was just angry at Rogue because he thought she was violating his privacy. Again, the scene isnt relevant. --DrBat 01:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it seems only to be irrelevant to you. You may be thinking of some throw away one panel suggestions that Northstar may be gay but in the case of the X-Men/Alpha Flight comic there were several scenes in which this was hidden yet centered upon. The first was when Rogue absorbed Northstar's powers and memories. She makes it a point to state that she knows ALL of his secrets. Later in the field, Northstar wasn't just angry at Rogue for violating his privacy. Sure he says that, but Rogue is very quick to point out to him that she knows what is really eating him and that he has no right to be so unhappy about it. Northstar's response? "Without my powers I'm nothing". Hence, yes Northstar had early issues with who he was. This is again later reinforced when Northstar is put on the spot to dance and Sasquatch and Aurora mock him as not being warm enough to dance with. Again it is Rogue who lets audiences know that it is not that he is a cold person, but actually that he doesn't like to be "vulnerable" in situations. So the X-Men/Alpha Flight Special isn't a throw away issue with invalid points toward the sub-heading of Northstar's homosexuality. It is actually VERY valid in that it is one of the few times that his inner workings on the subject were explored before the infamous Alpha Flight #106 issue. Artemisboy 16:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Put it to a vote if its that important to you.
 * Read his spotlight at uncannyxmen.net. In context with the rest of his appearances, the crossover doesn't stand out as something of that much importance. Again, has either Northstar or Rogue ever mentioned it again? Northstar's not the only one to have his memories absorbed by Rogue and get angry about having their privacy violated.
 * Furthermore, the homosexuality article talks about what went on behind the scenes with the various writers and the TPTB at Marvel, not NS's character history. --DrBat 00:05, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Ultimate Northstar
His character history section needs to be condensed. We can't have sections for each story arc he's appeared in. --DrBat 21:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Truncate the Ultimate history of Northstar if you must, but I think it's useful to leave the description of Ultimate Northstar's powers and abilities there. The fact he can't fly (unlike the original) is significant to the plot from the start—In the very first few pages he appears in, he falls off a building and requires the rescue of a flier. Later during the attempted rescue of Polaris, Northstar uses his speed to run on water and worries about falling in (There are a few other situations where he would be better off flying). Someone who is familiar with the old Northstar, but not the Ultimate version may justifiably wonder why he doesn't just fly in each of those instances. If such a person comes a-looking for answers on Wiki, it'll be there for him/her.--Perceive 07:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Gay and Quebequois?
HAHAHA... Gay and Quebequois?? You can't make that stuff up...AHAHAH 20:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there a point to this comment? Mallanox 10:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes there is. If you read his character development, its peculiar how the writers could not get away from him being a stereotypical gay irritating french man. For example, When Bill Mantlo succeeded Byrne as Alpha Flight writer, he began a storyline in which Northstar became infected with a strange illness. Mantlo intended to reveal that the illness was AIDS and then kill off the character in Alpha Flight #50. However, Marvel's editors intervened and Mantlo was forced to change the ending: instead of dying of AIDS, Northstar was revealed to be a magical being whose illness was the result of prolonged separation from his homeland..
 * I.e Quebec. Another planet indeed.
 * I told my gf about this (she lives in Quebec), and she asked if his special power was "being lazy". Maybe some room for future character development??CJ DUB 20:16, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright....?--&lt;b&gt;Chris Griswold&lt;/b&gt; 23:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, this is clearly a joke that isn't apparent to those not in the know. I won't pretend I understand now! If this helps understand the character or stereotype maybe someone could explain in the main article? Mallanox 22:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, John Byrne is Candadian, and he has made some bigoted remarks before. --Chris Griswold 17:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It may be totally unrelated, but it is also believed that one of the first and most notorious transmitters of AIDS in North America was a gay Quebequois flight attendant. In the early stages of trying to trace the disease many cases were traced back to this one man who estimated that he had slept with over 300 men in the last year. And they slept with two friends and they slept with two friends and so one until oila...epidemic.

School Teacher
If he really is a fictional school teacher, may I suggest you actually add something in the article to say so? As it is, it looks exactly like a cataloguing error. Note that mentoring is not really the same as being a *school* teacher. It is quite possible to mentor someone outside a formal educational establishment. Rhialto 08:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The infobox says "Xavier Institute faculty". --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 08:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Powers update
Just a question about whether or not Northstar and Aurora's powers were altered permanently by the Children of the Vault. During Serafina's narration when NS and Aurora attack the school, she states that the twins' power levels are much higher now compared to what they used to be. I assume this means after the Children had abducted them and brainwashed them. Is that sufficient enough to state that NS and A's mutant abilities have been permanently boosted, including the flash which NS regained after the HYDRA incident which he can now control with Aurora?Luminum 03:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ap106.PNG
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Alpha Flight
Rather than indiscrimanently reverting all the changes I made, I'm asking Luminum to look at everything objectively. I did not include "EVERY thing he did in Alpha Flight", nor even close to that. I may have included more than is necessary, but through careful reading and editing, it can be trimmed to an appropriate level. Consider this as well: he spent far more time in Alpha Flight than he did anywhere else. However, look at how detailed the information is on his far-briefer time with the X-Men, and worse, the even breifer time that took place after that. Before my expansion, his time with Alpha Flight was little more than "he was with the team for a long time, and then he quit." All I'm asking is that if you're going to leave his "formative years" with Alpha Flight little more than a footnote, that the same standard should be applied on the rest of the article. At the very least, I would ask Luminum to make objective cuts rather than reverting the whole thing indiscrimanently again. Thank you. 67.162.108.96 (talk) 18:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Watch your tone, I didn't do it with malice. I even kept your edits to his powers section.  So yes, I read through your edits and I didn't revert them indiscriminately.  From what I could tell, you basically listed every encounter he seemingly participated in citing every issue it happened in.  For example, your inclusions did not explain why those particular events were notable to his time in Alpha Flight or his development as a character in the series.  An example of which that was in the preexisting summary was his conflict with Aurora.  Since I figured you knew how these themes were related to your edits much better than I did, I undid your good faith edits and suggested that you sort through them and put the ones you felt were relevant back in.  I didn't ask that you keep them out, just redo it with my suggestion in mind.  So basically, I undid it and asked if you would trim it down the next time you entered the information the way you described above using your own scrutiny.  Another helpful thing is to recount those events as they would occur chronologically in the story, not int he order they occurred in publication.  It's probably good to note when something is a retcon or a flashback, but let's put it in order.  Ex: We'll explaint hat upon joining Alpha Flight, he first met Aurora, then write about his first appearance in comics fighting the X-Men over Wolverine.  Let me know if that sounds appropriate.  I can also help if you want, but I'm making the point that you know more about his detailed history and can probably decide what's notable than I.Luminum (talk) 19:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My apologies for getting defensive; your reversion at first seemed more thoughtless than it was probably intended. I saw that wikilink fixes were reverted (why?) so I assumed it was a wholesale revert. Also I didn't see the suggestions in the edit comment, which you are noting here. My bad for overreacting. :) I agree that some of his more incidental appearances can be trimmed, and that the more important stuff should be expanded upon. 67.162.108.96 (talk) 19:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's cool. Alright, I submitted an edit taking the information you listed.  Feel free to alter it as you see fit.Luminum (talk) 21:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow cool, good work! Probably better than I could have done with it. Suffice to say, I am far more satisfied with the article now than I was before. :) 67.162.108.96 (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rated for Comics Project
As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit WikiProject_Comics/Assessment and list the article. Hiding T 16:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Marriage Update
It was announced that Northstar would be marrying his bf Kyle, so I added in a quick line about it. Apparently some people aren't too happy about this, so I used an article that was written from that stance to illustrate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WhenWakkaWentWild (talk • contribs) 15:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I hardly see how fringe group One Million Moms' criticism of Northstar's marriage is even remotely relevant. If it should be included at all, then a positive article should be here to balance it out. Averagewolf (talk) 19:49, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

What does he do?
I can see this seems to be an important figure to someone who wants to push for positive homosexual stereotypes, and this seems fine to me, but I just have to say - I see a whole lot about his sexuality, but nothing about his superpowers other than that he has some. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to add them? MadProphet

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Obscure Source
I'm interested in a source for this article, 'Bartilucci, Vinnie. "One Thin Dime an' Two Thick Pennies (Jim Shooter interview)". Thwack!', but I can't find it anywhere. Searching for the article title only gets me more wiki footnotes copied from here. 'Thwack!' apparently was a comics APA in the '90s, but I don't think it's possible to find it now (correct me if I'm wrong). Is it possible that this source is too obscure, and shouldn't be used to support the assertion that Jim Shooter had a policy against homosexual characters? (Or, put another way -- are we sure this article actually exists?) 69.25.143.32 (talk) 01:42, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

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Relatives?
Shouldn't there be a section in the info box that would list his relatives? Northstar has a sister, a husband, adoptive parents and birth parents. 2603:9000:8D07:AAB0:B8D5:C3F3:56FD:FCCB (talk) 13:41, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

New Main Image
He needs a new main image Cordelia Van Allen (talk) 07:41, 25 January 2024 (UTC)