Talk:Northwest Coast art/Archive 1

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I think it would be great if we could do articles on each of the respected art. It would basically be an art article for every nation list [Indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast|here]. Or would people rather do one lengthy article with all the respected art design styles on this page? I was thinking Northwest Coast art would then be the introduction to each of the seperate pages. Similar to how Indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast breaks us into each of the nations. Thoughts? OldManRivers 21:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, you had seen this.....haven't gone over it yet, just stopped by to add the templates....Skookum1 (talk) 17:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Subpages, with this one being a directory of styles, with maybe 2-3 images max of each, representative, a brief summary, and the to the subarticles; comparing Kwakwaka'wakw and Nuu-chah-nulth and Heiltsuk mask styles, side-by-side, or whatever examples you want to use, could help illustrate the subtle differences which even fairly-knowledgeable-about-it mama'la (sp?) can't really nail down; I think I had a better handle on it as a kid, but then you didn't really see the whole scope of the output, only a few books (Barbeau mostly in my case); and we were from the Valley, not the Coast, so the Northwest style there was largely transplanted, the old local styles long vanished to fire and piety.  Real curious about how Chehalis and Scowlitz used to look...btw in that Costello book there's engravings of some pieces from the Sound; whiteman renderings but Salishan-looking, maybe useful for illustraitons (and pd).  Anyway somewhere there must be a "directory of styles" page for another topic, I'll try and think of it; probably in zoology or botany where different subspecies or regional variations are all shown on the same page -??Skookum1 (talk) 21:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Commercial galleries in external links
It's in cases like this where I don't know what to do; knowing the history of the art culture and the work these galleries have done in promoting not only individual artists but also bringing the whole genre to the fore....it's not like these are regular commercial links, more like private museums with fluid, purchasable collections. I've been in Spirit Wrestler; it's inspiring/daunting and oh-so-tasteful. Thing is if these guys are on here, others should be too, like Howard Hill, at the other end of Water, and there's a good few dozen good galleries province-wide, as well as native-owned/run institutions/businesses. List of Northwest Coast art dealers only has validity if we have corresponding non-OR writeup on teh importance of this network of galleries to the genre; much as Bau-Xi Gallery or the like might have a link, even an article as I've indicated, so should Spirit Wrestler Gallery and certain others anyway. I dunno where to take this, the Canadian Wikipedia noticeboard I guess, or BC's; it's one of those cases re "Local history" and likewise "indigenous history" where normal Wikiparameters should be relaxed, somehow, or codified or whatever; it's not WP:COI or WP:AUTO here exactly, more like "Wiki is not a directory/catalogue". But the importance of the art community in putting native art, and modern native artists, can't be overlooked; maybe they could be incorporated into the article, with advertorial-style writing, and that might validate them in the links?Skookum1 (talk) 21:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Northwest Coast culture vs Northwest Coast identity
Been thinking about this while out on my walk, or it kinda came to me while playing or whatever....the southern-boundary issue re the templates discussion, which we've now got to resolve as there's others ready to input and see it done, comes down to the respective self-perception of the Northwest Coast culture; I agree there's nothing south of Puget Sound in terms of what you mean by "Northwest Coast" as a culture-group. And that's true enough. But as an identity it's also true enough that the Oregon coastal tribes, in being part of the Pacific Northwest, also see themselves as "Northwest Coast"....I don't quite know how that spills over the mountains into the Williamette Valley, in terms of the old days that is as now coastal and inland peoples are on "blended" reservations like Siletz and Grand Ronde; the inland groups are in the same language groups as those east of the Cascades, i.e. of the Plateau; but he Williamette's not hte Plateau, nor is it the Coast; yet it really has to be included in the template; as it works out only some of the Mosan and Alsean languages cross the border, Oregon's pretty much distinct from the different ecumene farther south, and I think different in general culture-area too; the tragedy of the California genocide is we know so little of life there before, almost too idyllic to be believed; in contrast to the more warlike parts of the continent nearly everwhere else...or maybe that's a myth, too. Point is I think safely we can only break up the Pacific Northwest aka the Pacific Slope aka the old Oregon Country by Coast and Interior; saying to Oregon Native Americans "we don't think you're Northwest Coast enough" isn't going to go over well, I'd think. Certainly the Chinook, allies and equals of the Nuu-chah-nulth/Makah and godparents to the Chinook Jargon, qualify; but most Chinook today are Kalapuya, some Klickitat and other bloodlines also, including Tillamook/Nehalem/Nestucca and Siletz (all Salishan), all in the same family; so the tribes south of the Columbia and the Williamette are, in today's terms, part of the same inheritance; if not the same culture exactly, the same regional identity. I tried looking up cultural details about the Tillamook, but little is known about them and the pastiche entry from U.O.'s page on them just talked about Coast Salish culture, i.e. Puget Sound-Georgia Strait style; I'm not sure that was the case down there; they were if anything more connected to, through hostilities and relations, with the Chinook and the more southerly tribes; but again I know little; I think I recall a Grand Ronder commenting about Siletz that the culture was different (Siletz means somethiing a bit different than its old, old meaning when it was Salish-only); for one thing they used pithouses/quigglies, which is an Interior Salish thing; what is know of their language, though, is they had coastal-style lean-to bighouses or other post-and-beams. Anyway, because some of the Oregon coastal tribes are Salish means you can't really leave 'em off; and if you include them, you include their neighbours.....and it happens taht the 42nd Parallel (the CA-OR border) coincides, more or less, between the Oregon and California native worlds/cultural regions, at least as far sthe Cascades, as the Klamaths and Modocs and such are a different matter; can't remember if the Klamaths are "Plateau" or not, have to look it up again....anyway brought this up here because I know it's a complicated matter and a sensitive one; didn't want to ramble on in front of our Yankee colleagues too much about technical details; it's interesting huh, that they would perceive your position as a Canadian one? I don't even consider mine a Canadian one; I was more meaning the educational/media milieu we're respectively in, "them" and "us"; e.g. pfs who thought the northward boundary was the Fraser...that's how little they learn about us/you down there, and why getting this right and making it work on all sides is so important.....Skookum1 (talk) 21:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)