Talk:Northwestern University/Archive 1

Qatar
It should be mentioned somewhere that Northwestern is planning to begin teaching journalism and communications in Qatar starting in September. This is, I believe, their first presence outside of their main campus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Playwrite (talk • contribs) 06:53, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Alumni
Most of the famous actors who attended Northwestern University, such as Charton Heston, are not alumni because they did not graduate and do not have a northwestern degree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.105.19.246 (talk) 16:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to mention that, or to remove his name. Deen Gu (talk) 00:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Updates
So I'm gonna list any updates I perform in this section. Feel free to do the same. I'm trying to un-clutter the talk page at the moment, before tackling the actual article. Feel free to add stuff to 'done' or 'to do' --Trillian1138 22:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks like it's a wiki faux pas to reorganize talk pages, rather than archiving them. Want to appologize if I stepped on anyone's toes or messed anything up. --Trillian1138 03:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Done
 * Moved all Tradition-related talk stuff to a single section
 * Created 'Various' section
 * Moved 'A Call to Action,' 'Misc,' Website Ideas, People Who Edit This Page to Various
 * Created a Sports section, moved stuff there
 * I'm attempting to shorten the traditions section significantly, using a bullet-point list rather than long paragraphs wherever possible. I've created a page for The Rock to begin this process.
 * Starting to hunt down articles related to Northwestern (such as Griffin’s Tale which, if it should exist at all, needs editing) and add the NU category tag
 * Added a 'Campus Life' section, moved theater info there
 * Reorganized the sections. The changes are: (afetr that everything is the same)
 * 1) 1 History
 * 2) 2 Student body
 * 3) 3 Campus Life
 * 4) 4 Athletics
 * 5) 5 Rankings
 * 6) 6 Traditions
 * Cleaned up 'traditions' section, removing some of the extra explanations (for example, Dillo Day has its own page, as does Dance marathon - neither needed such in-depth explanations on the main NU page)


 * I took out Education City Qatar in the intro, since NU is still in talks with them. Alexnu 15:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Changed link of downtown campus from Chicago Loop to Streeterville. Alexnu 15:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Changed "German-style Gradute School" in intro back to original phrasing.
 * Updated NU's logo to the new version (also, as full disclosure, I work for NU's University Relations -- I'm just popping in now and then when I have free time to make factual edits -- please let me know if I'm stepping on any toes or making Wikipedia n00b mistakes) Alexnu 16:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

To Do
 * Northwestern University is the first campus to institute a Material Science program in the world, even though there were other 'metallurgy' programs that had 'material science' character. Also in the latest (2008) US News ranking, The MSE department is ranked #2, the highest ranking for any department at Northwestern University. Anyone care to see these things on the wiki page?


 * More hunting for lost NU articles which should have the category tag
 * Dillo day totally has its own page already. (And is linked from the main NU article) why is there still a paragraph explaining dillo day...
 * Maybe create a specific student theater section, move some stuff there
 * Add stuff about the actual schools at NU
 * See what crossover there is with the main article and pages for schools (i.e. who much at Feinberg_School_of_Medicine is duplicated on the main NU article, and how much really should be)
 * The student body page as it stands right now (12/20/06) is horrible. I know theater is a huge part of campus - and it's big enough that it should have it's own article, so should community service for that matter - however, theater and community service are not the only two things going on. we need more stuff about dorm rivleries, activism and especially the greek system.(Purpleoak 16:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC))
 * I also think that we need some more pictures up here.(Purpleoak 16:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC))
 * The only dorm rivalry I know of is CRC/Hinman (and technically, one is a res college, not a dorm). Are there any others?  Activism is pretty much nonexistent, but I'd agree that there's more stuff the greek system does than the article gives it credit for.  Also, there should probably be some stuff about music performance groups at NU, especially the a capella groups.  Other things the article could use: a section about the res college system and a section about research. (Bolt Vanderhuge 02:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC))

Questions
 * Do things like Willard Residential College or Communications Residential College (CRC) really need their own page? Those pictures are great, but I question if every dorm needs a page... If no one objects I may just make a 'Student Life' section, put dorm info there, and kill the individual dorm pages


 * No objection to that. 24.2.244.245 20:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Just wondering: when stating how large the area of the campus is in acres, what unit of measurement does the "ha" stand for right after? Ex:240 ac (--- ha) From Bjoseph93

Various
A Call to Action I would like to request that anyone who is a member of the Northwestern community, or even someone who just wants to contribute to the page, do so. This page is way behind (Stanford, Georgetown, Cornell, and especially Duke University to name a few) many peers and it deserves better. This is a call for help. This is a large project and the Northwestern community would appreciate any help possible. Thanks Wikipedians. NU Alum:Robms927 22:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC),


 * I'm going to try and go through the NU page over the next few days (and the talk page to see what people are saying) and try to clean stuff up, as well as add some stuff. I'm a rising senior at NU and have lived in Evanston my entire life, so I think I'm up to the task. --Trillian1138 19:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Misc.

So instead of adding a million alumni to the list, how about actually adding material of real substance? Look at the wikipedia entries for other schools similar to NU for example. NUFan 11-3-05

(in reference to "Northwestern in fiction") Can we please delete this section? It's entirely stupid and superfluous. Furthermore, this entire 'Northwestern University' definition constituted by this page must have been written by a McCormick alum--it's not well-written at all!

- Harvard, Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, and Georgia Tech all have sections like this one. Besides, nothing says "Wikipedia" like stupid and superfluous, and I mean that in the best way possible. Sincerely, the guy who wrote "Northwestern in fiction"

Website ideas

Does anyone have any suggestions about adding another section on the page about "Campus overview"? I saw this on a few other pages and it had some good information about the college. Also, it would be nice to have a complete Northwestern University page to compare to the other bigger schools. Keppy 20:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I think we should definitely include an overview of the campus. The north/south "divide." Description of the lake front, important buildings etc. Also, we could probably include some more pictures! Alumni - 2-16-06

Sports
Northwestern Sports Northwestern has some great Wiki sports pages such as Northwestern Wildcats football and Northwestern Wildcats. Don't you think we should try and combine some of this information, or at least make it easier to get to the good Northwestern football page through a dablink or something? I mean, our current sports section is pretty weak.

P.S. The schools colors are purple AND WHITE (http://www.northwestern.edu/logo/guidelines.html). Robms927. 27-July-2006

Sports I have corrected the spelling of Luis Castillo's and D'Wayne Bates's names. (Yes, it's Luis; yes, it's D'Wayne.) - ZLS 02:50, 3 March 2006

Did someone beef?

Welsh-Ryan Rowdies Hi. I've been putting together pages for each of the Big Ten's basketball student sections and was wondering if someone would be interested in expanding and maintaining that of the Welsh-Ryan Rowdies. Thanks! --BroadSt Bully 14:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Patten demolition Seriously? Well, I still don't think it's correct to say it was demolished and relocated farther north. There's still some building called Patten Gymnasium; I've been there. To call it demolished makes it sound as though it ceased to exist. Thor Rudebeck 10:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

It did cease to exist. If the wording is unclear, feel free to make it better. johnpseudo 16:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * Northwestern → Northwestern (disambiguation) … Rationale: So that a search for "Northwestern" is redirected to Northwestern University but the disambiguation of the term “Northwestern” will still exist and will be accessible through a dablink at the top of Northwestern University. Please see Stanford as an example. … Please share your opinion at Talk:Northwestern. —Robms927 18:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge

 * Mathematical Methods in the Social Sciences → Northwestern University … Rationale: It seems to me that individual projects within NU should have their own pages so that the main page doesn't get too unwieldy. Other projects, departments, and groups have their own pages as well, so should MMSS. --In Defense of the Artist 19:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Traditions
I'm moving everything concerning NU traditions under this heading - there are, like, 4 different threads all over the Talk page. --Trillian1138 19:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Inaccurate / erroneous traditions

As an NU student myself, I'm surprised by some of these traditions: 1. No one throws marshmallows at football games. 2. No one participates in the Primal Scream, so far as I know. I've never heard screaming at 9 p.m. Sunday before finals week, nor have I ever screamed at that time. 3. The Halloween chemistry demonstrations are fun, but not what the article makes them out to be. They're put on by chemistry demonstrator Eberhard Zwergel. To my knowledge, no other professors participate. Neither do "musicians, dancers, and members of the NU Marching Band."

I plan on removing these items from the list of traditions, unless someone corrects me on any of it. Nicefriend 04:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

To my knowledge:

1. Right on. How about a mention of the fight song(s) and The Growl? 2. I've never been to the Primal Scream, but I've seen mention of it around. Do they still do the Primal Streak? They tried to get it started for a few years when I was there. 3. Prof. Eberhard does the demonstration, and members of NUMB do participate.

yEvb0 20:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

1. Agreed. 2. Primal Scream exists but nobody does it. I haven't heard of anybody doing a Primal Streak. 3. The Halloween shows are fun but are in no way on the level of traditions like The Rock.
 * Primal Scream is a rumor anymore. If no one does it, does it really still exist?

3. Not only do members of NUMB participate, but in 2004 so did the Lady Cats a northwestern Dance organization. The Northwestern Marching Band, has been known in the past to attend some of his demonstraitions. -- 18:51, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Primal Streak, yes *** Primal Scream, no I publish college guidebooks for over 200 universities in the U.S.  All of the guidebooks are written by students currently enrolled in these universities. In our most recent edition of the Northwestern book, many students had stories about the "primal streak". Here is what actually goes on these days...

Though other schools participate in Primal Scream, Northwestern students mark the beginning of finals week with Primal Streak – when a group runs scantily clad or naked from the Technological Institute to the Arch.

from the College Prowler guidebook, Northwestern University - Off the Record

On Primal Scream Not sure where you guys have been living, but Primal Scream definitely is observed quarterly. I participated last night at 9pm, along with enough students to be heard throughout Evanston... maybe it happens more noticeably in the dorms. -- (unknown user)

I have lived on North Campus my entire college career so far, and I haven't heard people do it. But some South Campus friends say that it's done down there? --TheBoompsy 21:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I lived in Elder Hall, Lincoln, and Slivka - and all nine quarters I was on campus we did Primal Scream (not streak) so loudly that Benton Harbor probably heard us. That said, streaking probably happened in conjunction; I was just too busy screaming to notice. --nickd

I also have heard the Primal Scream every quarter. It's definitely done.

Agreed that Primal Scream is still done. I graduated in 2005, lived off-campus by Church, and heard it almost every quarter... In other words, it's noticable. Perhaps it's a South campus thing? 71.234.216.249 20:10, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Traditions...

I attended NU in the late 80's, and I think perhaps the writer of the submission did, too. Primal Screams were a fixture during finals, and marshmallows were a part of every home game. When Gary Barnett was football coach (Rose Bowl year) he banned marshmallows because they supposedly detracted from the serious level of football that he wanted for the school. I hope this helps with the confusion!

Thanks! It would probably be nice to include these traditions, even if they aren't observed currently. Should this be a separate section? yEvb0 16:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of the marshmellows (but then again I don't really attend the games), but at least in the Foster-Walker Complex, Primal Scream definitely goes on each quarter. It's especially loud in the courtyards.199.74.101.26 23:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Halloween Chemistry Shows Should we add this to traditions? I know that it's recent, but it's done every year... I graduated a year ago, but I'm sure it'll be done this fall too. 71.234.216.249 20:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The Prowl

I deleted it before, but since it got put back up again, I'll bring it up for debate: the Prowl is not a tradition. It's 2 years old, making it as young as or younger than First Friday, and we all know that First Friday is hardly a tradition. Bolt Vanderhuge 06:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You are correct that "The Prowl" is only two years old. However, I'm a senior this year at NU and I cannot think of another event that has drawn more Seniors, nay students, EVER. Out of a graduating class under 2,000 students, over 900 showed up to The Prowl.


 * Penn State's "white out" is younger than the prowl and it has already become a tradition on their athletics page and this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_White_Out


 * Besides, the Prowl is just COOL. It's unprecedented. No one knows who organizes it, or why it even takes place.(Purpleoak 16:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC))

Jingling Car Keys This is certainly a tradition, but I'd like to see a citation of its birth as taunt to opposing teams in the manner mentioned. Plenty of other schools participate in this tradition, including Michigan, whose fans use it to denote "key play". There is a small contingent of fans at any given game who insist on cheers with the elitist overtones like these, and I think it gives NU a bad face and does not reflect the attitudes of the fans at large. Nearly all the students participate in the key jingling, but few if any know of it as an elitist taunt. However, if someone can point to a citation of how it started, then I'll accept it. Otherwise, uncited material should be taken down.

Saying the same thing twice
Considering the current listing doesn't mention undergraduate, but rather doctoral, it is a bit misleading. Agriculture 03:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

The 2006 U.S. News college rankings removed the word doctoral and now simply call the category top national universities. Nicefriend 05:38, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Clarification on Noah Wyle
Noah Wyle never attended Northwestern University as an undergraduate; he attended a summer theater program (known in the NU community as the "Cherub" program) after his junior year of high school.

Under "infamous," one might put Arthur Butz, the NU professor of engineering who (much to NU's chagrin and embarrassment) espouses Holocaust denial. He is kept on a tight leash by the university and does not espouse his theories in his engineering classes, but he is a leader in the Holocaust denier-community.

One might also put Dr. Hammesfahr (of Terri Schiavo fame) as an infamous alumni. He was a graduate of their 6-year Honors Program in Medical Education (HPME), in which a student completes both BA and MD in 6 years. Northwestern's head of neurology has indicated that Hammesfahr's conduct and website are a disgrace, and it was rumored that Northwestern was preparing a statement to distance themselves from his professional activities.

School color
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/archives/nu_colors.pdf

“Hail to Black! Hail to Gold! Hail to thee, Northwestern!”

By Patrick M. Quinn, University Archivist Reprinted from the Northwestern Memo, December 1979, p. 9

Hail to Black? Hail to Gold? Not at Northwestern, you say. Not now, of course. Everyone knows that Northwestern’s colors are purple and white even if they don’t know the lyrics of the University’s Alma Mater.

But it wasn’t always so. In fact it’s not so now. Northwestern only has one official color, royal purple. This has been the case since 1892, despite the fact that with the passage of time, tradition has firmly established white as a de facto if not de jure official color.

Had it not been for the fact that black and gold had been adopted by other universities, the Norris Center Bookstore might well today be stocking beer mugs and other paraphernalia in those two auspicious colors. The decision to scrap black and gold as NU’s colors was made almost exactly 100 years ago, in 1879. Why was it made?

The original impetus for colleges and universities to adopt official colors evolved as a consequence of the flourishing of intercollegiate athletics during the decade immediately following the Civil War. Indeed it was only with the development of football as a major sport in the 1870s that students at Northwestern felt compelled to select a University color to distinguish themselves and their teams on the fields of play.

It seems that in the fall of 1879, following the lead of many Eastern universities, a committee chose black and gold as NU’s official colors since its membership was unable to agree upon a single color.

Shortly thereafter it was discovered that other schools had preempted those colors, and the Northwestern committee met again and selected purple and gold in their place. For the next 13 years Northwestern teams went forward under purple and gold banners until 1892, when another University committee reduced the official color to just royal purple, apparently in emulation of the custom adopted at various of the prestigious Eastern universities.

Gold continued to be used in concert with purple on academic regalia, but sometime shortly after 1892 white became the University’s second (and unofficial) color, and it has been ever since.

Those who have seen the fearsome Black Knights of the Hudson storm onto the field attired in their black and gold uniforms during the Annual Army-Navy football game have had a glimpse of what the scene might have looked like at Dyche Stadium on any Saturday afternoon this autumn had it not been for a momentous decision made by a committee of students 100 years ago.

Without their foresight we would not be singing those glorious words, “Hail to Purple! Hail to White! Hail to thee, Northwestern!”

Hail to Alma Mater We will sing thy praise forever All thy sons and daughters Pledge thee victory and honor Alma Mater Praise be thine May thy name forever shine Hail to purple Hail to white Hail to thee Northwestern!

Doggo 19:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, but purple and white are actually both the official colors, according to University Relations. http://www.northwestern.edu/univ-relations/publications/logo/guidelines.html Does anyone have a citation that the university only has one official color? --In Defense of the Artist 17:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how the above text doesn't qualify as a citation, aside from the fact that it's almost 30 years old, but I digress. http://www.northwestern.edu/about/history/timeline1899/index.html is another link confirming that purple is the only school color.  Apparently, NU's archives and its PR people need to coordinate a little better. Bolt Vanderhuge 02:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Doggo and Bolt V. are right, the only official school color is purple. The logo guidelines include white as an acceptable color (the logo can be reversed out of a solid black, for instance), but white is not an "official" color. That is a typo on the University Relations site. Archives is the best source for questions like this. Alexnu 15:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

How about some substance?
It's embarrassing how little of this article actually concerns the teaching and research that goes on at Northwestern, in contrast to the surfeit of verbiage (some of it, apparently, inaccurate) on silly "traditions." In the "History" section, rather than a paragraph on the CTA Purple Line (what's historical about that?) why not some information about NU's groundbreaking or controversial academic programs -- such as the founding of the nation's first African Studies center in 1948, the allegations of links between the Traffic Institute and the School of the Americas that trained security forces for right-wing Latin American dictators in the 1980s, or the death penalty project in which research by Medill journalism students led to a moratorium on the death penalty by the state of Illinois. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.3.93.245 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No offense, but that's why this is a wiki. If you feel there are important things left out and have even basic knowledge about them, add whatever you can!  In the same manner, things you may find "silly" or "non-historical" others found important for whatever reason, and added them.  Other people will come along to fill in the details and expand over time; that's how articles grow.  This is a group effort! -- SmokeDetector47( TALK ) 17:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. At the risk of sounding snippy, why don't you just add the information instead of complaining and not adding the information?--Bolt Vanderhuge 18:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Art History?
According to this article, NU's Art History program is "esteemed." I'll be frank in that beyond History and German, I don't know much about Weinberg departments, but I have heard from more than one person that NU's Art History is abysmal. Anyone else heard this? SmokeDetector47( TALK ) 17:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

You received bad information. NU's art history department is ranked among the top ten in the US, and has been for over twenty years. 24.2.244.245 00:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, according to PhDs.org, Northwestern's art history program ranks seventh in the country by reputation, (behind NYU, Columbia, Cal, Harvard, Yale, and Johns Hopkins,) second in number of faculty awards, and first in percentage of faculty awards. In other words, NU's art history is not "abysmal;" on the contrary. Perhaps your friends dislike Northwestern's lack of emphasis on "formalism"--NU's art history dept. has a reputation for emphasizing the socio-political significance of art objects rather than visual analysis... Also, congrats on your German major; that's another one of NU's top depts. LuMas 01:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Template
I created a Northwestern template. Feel free to edit it if you feel the layout could be improved (I can't get it to not straddle the Big Ten template on the Northwestern page) or if you want to add stuff. template:Northwestern --Bolt Vanderhuge 01:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks greats! --Trillian1138 02:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Rankings?
Why is there such a huge section dedicated to rankings?

If you have to _explain_ to people how highly your school is ranked, chances are it ain't that great of a school, know what I mean?

If you go to a great school, you just say the name, and that's it. If you go to a lowly ranked school, or are insecure about the school's reputation, then you basically have to append an explanation of how great your school is everytime you mention it.
 * While I agree that NU's ranking section may be a bit excessive, every other school page that I've looked at has something concerning admission and selectivity. But I think cleaning it up and/or shortening it might be a good idea.--Trillian1138 20:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Although I understand your point and agree with you, school rankings have become increasingly influential over the past ten-fifteen years. They seem arbitrary, misleading, and rigged, etc. Regardless, some people take them as gospel, as fact, and this NU wiki page serves to inform those who would like to learn this 'information.' If you look at wikis regarding Northwestern's peer institutions (e.g. UChicago, Penn, Brown, Cornell, etc.) you'll find and find that their pages address rankings too. Rather than delete the section, let's edit it. LuMas 20:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * How about this compromise: let's delete any statements that are totally subjective. Like "Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management consistently ranks as one of the world's finest business schools". You can say that about any business school. What does "one of the world's finest" mean? Either someone put in an exact ranking AND a source, or lets take it out. And if a ranking is given, then I'm sure I can find a lower ranking somewhere else, because many magazines rank schools. So then we have to include multiple rankings, unless they're all the same. See how annoying it gets once you use rankings?
 * Good call re:references. LuMas 01:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. Kellogg's page has a chart dedicated to its numerous rankings. Perhaps we could state the rankings of the professional programs on the wikis devoted to those schools? (e.g. MBA on the Kellogg page, J.D. on the Law page, etc.) Perhaps on the main page, we could include the general undergrad rankings? Just an idea--let me know what you you think. LuMas 02:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I scaled back the section. Let's add grad program rankings on a page for the grad school, law ranking on a page for the law school, dental rankings on a page for the... oops. Hehe. LuMas 03:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it looks good. I might add an 'intro'-type sentence ("Northwestern consistently ranks highly as an accademic institution. According to US News and World Report...etc") as I think that would help the section flow better. I realize this is subjective, which you're trying to avoid, but I think a single sentence like that won't change the subjectivity of the section while adding readability. I do agree you've done a good job of removing things that aren't actually referenced and think the section looks much better, on the whole. --Trillian1138 04:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, so I didn't realize that there was a discussion on this, so I just reverted to the last version of our Raning section. I appologize if this was sudden. I think it might be worth starting over on redoing this section, only because I feel like everything was taken out of it at once. I really think it is a great idea to take out the subjective information ("esteemed"), but overall, ranking information is objective and important to a lot of people that don't know about Northwestern. I think it is a disservice to hide NU's accomplishments and just tell people looking at the site to look elsewhere for ranking info (that doesn't exist for the most part on other Wiki-pages). Since "Northwestern University" is the mainpage for the other schools, everything deserves a comment, even if it is repeated. So while we don't need to restate that Kellogg ranking chart, it deserves to be mentioned that it usually ranks in the top 5 in U.S. News. So basically, I am just requesting that we start over, and start by making more subtle changes that don't take away from the page. I think it is a great idea to focus on rakings on the school-specific pages, but you need summary info on the "Northwestern University" page because for most people, this page is the only page they will use to learn about NU. Robms927 14:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's definitely reasonable, Rob. The problem is--and a nice problem to have!--NU features SO many highly ranked programs--individual programs within the Weinberg grad school even, (Psych, Art History, German, etc.) Not to mention all of the professional programs. The section may look similar to before--just with sources. Is this okay with everyone? LuMas 20:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not so sure what you are suggesting. I personally would like to see the U.S. news ranking for undergraduate and graduate programs (by school only). But that princeton review ranking can go (it is so subjective--based on surveys--anyways) and so can the "other good programs include:" sentence. No we don't need to list every post-doc liberal arts program rank, but for the general schools it is appropriate. I would rather focus on expanding other parts of this page (that desperately need help) than cutting things out. Robms927 20:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

NNN vs. NU Channel 1
The page lists NNN as Northwestern's "television network". That's not strictly true. NNN stands for Northwestern Network News, and is the student television news program. That program airs on some local cable access channels as well as NU Channel 1, which more closely fits the definition of a television network. How do we fix this? If we're going for news outlets, then WNUR isn't quite right; WNUR News, a group within WNUR, handles that. If we're simply going for media outlets, Channel 1 may not count as it does not broadcast off-campus. Still, I am reluctant to classify NNN as a "network" when it produces two half-hour programs a week. (So does Sportsnight, an offshoot.) Thor Rudebeck 08:49, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

selectivity
I don’t wanna get into a whole big thing here but im not sure “most selective school in the American Midwest” phrase is not without arguments.

From US World Reports

19% Acceptance Rate 1360-1520 SAT 6 in Selectivity Rank overall
 * Washington U in St. Louis

30% Acceptance rate 1320-1500 SAT 17 in Selectivity Rank
 * Northwestern U

32% Acceptance Rate 1290-1470 SAT 17 in Selectivity Rank
 * Notre Dame

25% 1330-1540 SAT 11 in Selectivity Rank
 * Rice U

Rice is in Texas, which is not really “Midwest” though.

Wahoos 04:37, 3 Feb 2007 (UTC)

Past presidents
While putting together navboxes for the past presidents of the Big Ten schools, I realized Northwestern is the only school in the conference that doesn't have a list of all their past presidents somewhere on their public web site. After some research, I spoke with someone at University Archives at Northwestern who sent me a scan of a page from the sesquicentennial text that contains the complete list. Since I'm not sure where this would go, for now I'll put it here so those of you who are involved with this article can determine if there's a use for it.

° - interim/acting president
 * Clark T. Hinman, DD (1853—84)
 * Henry S. Noyes, MA (1854—56) °
 * Randolph S. Foster, DD, LLD (1856—60)
 * Henry S. Noyes, MA (1860—67) °
 * David H. Wheeler, DD (1867—69) °
 * Erastus O. Haven, DD, LLD (1869—72)
 * Charles H. Fowler, DD, LLD (1872—76)
 * Oliver Marcy, LLD (1876—81) °
 * Joseph Cummings, DD, LLD (1881—90)
 * Henry Wade Rogers, LLD (1890—1900)
 * Daniel Bonright, MA, LLD (1900—02) °
 * Edward J. James, PhD, LLD (1902—04)
 * Thomas F. Holgate, PhD, LLD (1904—06) °
 * Abram W. Harris, ScD, LLD (1906—16)
 * Thomas F. Holgate, PhD, LLD (1916—19) °
 * Lynn H. Hough, DD (1919—20)
 * Walter Dill Scott, PhD, LLD (1920—39)
 * Franklyn Bliss Snyder, PhD, LLD (1939—49)
 * J. Roscoe Miller, MD, LLD, ScD (1949—70)
 * Robert H. Strotz, PhD, LLD (1970—84)
 * Arnold R. Weber, PhD (1984—94)
 * Henry S. Bienen, PhD (1995—present)

Endowment?
==

Headline text
Northwestern's endowment should really be reported as 5.9 billion, as that is the information provided on the Northwestern University website. See http://www.northwestern.edu/about/facts/. Having the correct endowment on the Northwestern page is crucially important, as it exceeds UPENN and rivals Columbia's.

I hate to be a stickler about Northwestern's Endowment but as of 2006 it was 5.9 billion. It has increased anywhere between 270 and 400 million since then. So what should we put? Please see the below site for statistics as of March 2007:

http://www.northwestern.edu/president/addresses/07state.html

Headline text
==

NU lists it at 5.9 bil, US News says 2.12 what should we report?

Reorganization
I recently made some fairly major changes to the page. I removed the long lists of presidents and notable faculty to List of Northwestern University faculty, reorganized the page sections per WikiProject_Universities. I made a mess of the rankings section with all the fact tags, but it reeks of booster-cruft -- either get citations for all of them or parse the list for which are important and condense the section. I implemented ref tags where there were citations. I will go through and use some of the sources and links at the bottom to begin to fill in the article with appropriate cites in the near future.Madcoverboy 14:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Rankings
I removed all the boostercruft in the rankings section and replaced it with rankings by established and ostensibly reputable/objective sources. I left an inline comment that all rankings for specific programs and departments should be moved to that page's section on rankings rather than on the main page. Otherwise, the sections becomes bogged down in references to certain programs and departments to the exclusion of others that might not be ranked as highly, a violation of WP:NPOV. Madcoverboy 17:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Waa-Mu
The Waa-Mu article was put up for deletion, and subsequently deleted. Should we try to bring it back? Bolt Vanderhuge 22:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

History of Northwestern University Article/Merge

 * It's basically just a bunch of timelines copied and pasted directly from NU sites. I would recommended the pertinent bits of the history page be moved to the main NU article (which has a relatively short history section compared to other Universities) or the History of NU article should be rewritten altogether. Thoughts? - AKeen 16:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose Reconstruction/expansion/paragrpahization is underway and rough draft should be in place within 24 hours. The history article will be substantially longer than is approrpriate for a summary-style article such as this and should remain separate. The section here will be appropriately updated when finished. See History of Michigan State University, History of Cornell University, etc. for examples. Madcoverboy 03:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. - AKeen 21:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

List of Northwestern University buildings
There is a broad consensus that many university pages on individual schools, colleges (in the American, not English sense), departments, programs, majors, as they exist now, do not fulfill the notability criterion. The argument can be extended to most university buildings as has been done here, here, and here, to say nothing of AfDs which I don't even want to begin to go through. Basically, none of the buildings articles currently meet notability criterion. I am not saying they couldn't, but it makes more sense to have a List of Northwestern University buildings right now than a bunch of stagnant stub articles. Madcoverboy 02:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Research?
Why is there no section on research? I just noticed this. Every other university FA has a research section either separate from or embedded wtihin Academics; can we slap together some stuff about the usual suspects (materials science, african studies, etc) and cut back on some of the traditions stuff? Madcoverboy 03:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Aside from whatever research went into making Lyrica, I have no idea what research NU does or where to find info about it, and I just spent 4 years there. I don't think it's something they promote heavily. Bolt Vanderhuge 05:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well it's a member of the AAU so its certainly a research university. I came across Office for Research. I'm still bonked, so I don't have any time to parse this yet. Nevertheless, I have to say, I agree with Bolt; Northwestern does a piss poor job of promoting itself compared to the torrent of boosterism coming out of lesser institutions. Good for wikipedia, bad for alumni! Madcoverboy 12:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Ambiguation
Someone may wish to mention that there are several Northwestern Universities, and if they wish, they can click on a wiki link to get to the ambiguation page. One example of these universities is Northwestern University in Nebraska. However, I have not looked to see if they have a wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.160.64.49 (talk) 16:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Madcoverboy (talk) 13:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

History of Northwestern University
I've been working on the History of Northwestern University and have taken care of most of the pre-WWII history and a smattering of topics since then. I would welcome other editors' assistance in expanding the article, getting it assessed, and nominating it for GA and FA in the coming months. Madcoverboy (talk) 22:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks for updating the history article. Could you update the main history section if needed? I might try to do a quick edit of the academics section. Deen Gu (talk) 17:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 20:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "purple" :
 * purple
 * purple

The Rock image
User:CrazyCats60201 has been reverting edits to ensure than an image of the rock he uploaded appears on this page. In addition to being unnecessarily obscene, the image is poorly lit and provides no context for the environment around the rock. I have uploaded an image of mine under the assumption that the CrazyCats didn't like the previous image although it appears he is intent on ensuring that his image remains up there. Obviously, other editor's input is needed to ascertain what (if any) image should be used here. Madcoverboy (talk) 06:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and removed any of the 3 images of the rock on the article pending consensus on which should be used. Madcoverboy (talk) 19:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the picture to the right is fine. It's your call. Deen Gu (talk) 18:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The picture to the right looks good. Pummer (talk) 20:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't the Logo just be NU's seal?
And not the stylized "NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY" underneath? This would be more in line with other peer universities, including, for example University of Chicago and Duke University Pummer (talk) 20:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't object. But just make sure, in absence of the text, that the logo is bigger to fit the box. Deen Gu (talk) 18:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. I think this one works better. Pummer (talk) 20:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

http://www.northwestern.edu/univ-relations/publications/logo/guidelines.html "The logo is a single unit; the two elements of the seal and the words "Northwestern University" are always to be presented together, in the relationship shown here." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.239.212 (talk) 06:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Intro Paragraph Rankings
We need citations for what programs/departments/schools NU is ranked in, or else anybody who thinks their department is good will put their department on the list. But I'm not too sure how to best handle this. For instance communications is good at NU, but it's hard to compare such specialized departments. Also, I'm not a big fan of rankings, but at least it's something objective. According to THES, we're ranked in the social sciences... Deen Gu (talk) 05:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I took out the non-rankings sentance from the lead since it was ultimately unverifiable and didn't reflect content in the rest of the article. If more content is added on the various academic programs and offerings in the academics sections, we could include this, but it was WP:PEACOCK-y as it was before. Madcoverboy (talk) 00:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Push for GA
I might just be talking to myself, but if there's anyone out there, I'd like your help to push this article to GA or A status. I especially need help in the traditions section as I have no experience with the importance or salience of these events, so I'm calling on any alums or current undergradutes to help build out that section by first and foremost visiting University of Michigan, Texas A&M, and Duke University as these are model articles which we should emulate. Or really any of the rest of the sections there. Madcoverboy (talk) 12:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Translation into Chinese Wikipedia
The 03:37, 7 March 2009 Sinneed version of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia.--Wing (talk) 14:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Popular culture and fictitious alumni
Wikipedia is not a directory to house lists of cultural ephemera like the fact that Northwestern was mentioned in a television show, a fictional character is an alumni, etc. This content does not warrant a standalone section within the article since it does absolutely nothing to increase the reader's understanding of Northwestern. If the content can be integrated into another part of the article or a subarticle List of Northwestern University alumni without undue weight, then attempt that. But please stop creating "Northwestern in popular culture" and "Fictitious Northwestern alumni" sections in the article. Madcoverboy (talk) 13:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

citation needed
Maybe a few more than needed were added, but if you look at the other sections of the article, they are all well sourced. Now look at the marked sections. Essentially zero citations. Horrible. Needs to be fixed. 129.105.81.116 (talk) 19:49, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Campus Life and Alumni still need to be fixed. 75.31.250.206 (talk) 13:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:SOFIXIT Madcoverboy (talk) 13:25, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. couldn't find sources for most things, so now fixxed.  75.31.250.206 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 17:02, 16 March 2009 (UTC).
 * Reverted. Blanking the entire sections of the article because they are uncited is inappropriate. I intended to convey that editors should find citations to back up the assertions and claims and only remove them if they are non-neutral or unverifiable. Madcoverboy (talk) 17:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "couldn't find sources for most things"
 * "only remove them if they are [...] unverifiable."
 * lol - that he did —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.105.19.151 (talk) 19:42, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I restored some of the other guy's edits (some were actually good if you read them) and added some clean up of my own. Some things I was a bit iffy about changing, but I changed them anyway, deciding to be bold.  So at the very least look at my edits before reverting them all, as you did with 75.31.250.206. 129.105.19.151 (talk) 20:06, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think 129's cleanup has the article looking much better after a first glance. It will likely just take a a few Google News searches to turn up neutral and verifiable citations for currently uncited material. Madcoverboy (talk) 20:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Endowment numbers
The NACUBO numbers are most reliable numbers since they are comparable on the same criteria. I'm not an accountant by any means, but there are lots of numbers in financial reports that can be construed as the endowment and I'm only going to trust NACUBO. Their report on 2008 endowments should be published by the end of January 2009. Madcoverboy (talk) 15:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I recommend some flexibility with endowment numbers right now given the financial climate and how quickly many endowments are plummeting. I don't think this is necessarily applicable in this instance but it's something to keep in mind.  --ElKevbo (talk) 16:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Given the complexity and scale of endowments and the non-profit mission of universities, I believe official endowment numbers are only collected/released in an annual report. The reliability of anything not citing an annual financial report or standardized data set (like NACUBO) is dubious as it might be conflating pension funds, gifts but not expenditures, etc. Hopefully, it's not the case that NACUBO is delayed for months like the NRC.... Madcoverboy (talk) 17:14, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think USNWR always underreports NU endowment figures. I don't know why. But even at the height of our endowment, (late-summer 08) the 2009 USNWR reported ~4.9 while the NACUBO reported ~7.2. Deen Gu (talk) 16:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Northwest Territories?
The article states that NU was intended to "serve the people of the Northwest Territory". While the area of Illinois and other Upper Midwest states were indeed parts of the Northwest Territory, the Territory ceased to exist in 1803, more than 45 years prior to NU's inception, Illinois itself achieved statehood in 1818, more than 30 years before NU came around.

Could this be reworded somehow to clarify that the university served the former NWT or was there some official recognition of the former NWT that I am unaware of that could be cited to clarify this? I would make the changes myself but there might be someone better qualified to fix this.N9jig (talk) 03:00, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

NU intro
Maybe there's a way we could change it a little so not every sentence starts with the word Northwestern? I propose this slight change. Plus, I think telling people how much acreage is redundant.

"Northwestern University (NU) is a private research university located primarily in Evanston, Illinois, United States. Northwestern was founded in 1851 by John Evans and eight other Chicago businessmen to serve the people of what had once been part of the Northwest Territory. Instruction began in 1855 and women were first admitted in 1869. Today, Northwestern's main campus is located in Evanston, Illinois, along the shore of Lake Michigan. The law and medical schools are located in downtown Chicago's Streeterville neighborhood. In 2008, the Medill School of Journalism and School of Communication opened a campus in Education City, Doha, Qatar.

Northwestern is organized into twelve undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges and in 2008 enrolled 8,476 undergraduate and 9,955 graduate and professional students. Northwestern's schools of management, engineering, and communication are among the most academically productive in the nation in their respective disciplines.[9] Northwestern managed research and development budgets totaling $420.0 million in 2006, 34th among all universities and 13th among private universities in the United States. Alumni include three Presidential nominees, two Supreme Court justices, two Nobel Prize laureates, nine Pulitzer Prize laureates, and six Academy Award laureates.

Northwestern is a founding member and remains the sole private institution in the Big Ten Conference. The Northwestern Wildcats compete in 19 intercollegiate sports in the NCAA's Division I." Deen Gu (talk) 02:37, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This seems fine to me on a first pass. Madcoverboy (talk) 03:54, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Cite gone missing
There are 4 or more references to a work "Williamson and Wild" in the article, yet the original full citation seems to have gone missing. Would the author contributing the original cite or someone who knows of the original cite please assist in restoring it Thanks. Sctechlaw (talk) 02:35, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Is this the cite originally used?
 * Harold F. Williamson and Payson S. Wild, Northwestern University, A history, 1850-1975 (Evanston: Northwestern, 1976)
 * Sctechlaw (talk) 03:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Sports confusion
In the "Athletics" section, NU is claimed as "holding the record for the longest losing streak in Division I-A, losing 34 consecutive games between 1979 and 1982." Yet immediately after this, the article states that, "In 2004, Northwestern broke a 33-year losing streak (46 years at home)." Which is it? Is the latter a streak of losing seasons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.139.254 (talk) 04:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Two profs
The article, when listing notable faculty, states: "sexual psychologist J. Michael Bailey;[161] Holocaust denier Arthur Butz..."

Butz is indeed a Holocaust denier, but he doesn't teach Holocaust or even history at NU. He teaches electrical engineering, which has nothing to do with the subject. It seems his Holocaust denial is separate from his position at NU. Thus, I think its UNDUE to mention that he is a Holocaust denier on this article.

Bailey is a sexual psychologist. And his methods for teaching the subject he does have come under attack (i.e the live sex demonstration). That should certainly be mentioned.VR talk  17:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Avoid dated statements
Please remember the guideline WP:DATED to avoid words like "currently". It might be "current" when you add it, but it quickly gets out of date. This is an encyclopedia, not a news item. In particular, as per the discussion above, the article now is not even consistent. An unregistered editor just changed it to say "eighth richest" with current endowment of 6.3B, but the source cited shows it as number 9 with only 5.9. The Daily article cited elsewhere gives the higher figure, and explains they were both done in 2009 when investments changed so quickly these numbers could not be compared that accurately. I will try to fix the article to agree with sources and back out some other dated language. W Nowicki (talk) 22:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

An unregistered user at IP address 74.108.11.21 again tried to put the $6.3B figure into the lead without any edit comment or discussion here. The cited source clearly shows the value of $5.9B, which in 2009 was fairly meaningless since values were changing so fast. Please read the guidelines on lead sections and avoid dated details. Also saying "richest" is a bit colloquial. Tha might also be interpreted as many rich people go there, also ill-defined and not encyclopedic. Thanks. W Nowicki (talk) 19:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Unregistered IP address 74.108.11.21 again claimed in the lead the August 2010 number was "current". It is not, and sourced to a student newspaper article anyway. Please read guidelines about dated statements and lead sections. Perhaps time to semi-protect the article? W Nowicki (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The vandal is back again, making changes that undo others without edit sumaries nor discussing them. Not sure if I would be accused of an "edit war" by fixing it again within 24 hours, so sounds like time for semi-protection, if someone can give an opnion. Or am I the lone voice in the wilderness opposed to saying something from a student newspaper last year is "current"? W Nowicki (talk) 19:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

George RR Martin
He belongs on the list of notable alumni.

That is all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.79.10.117 (talk) 17:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Andrew Mason
Is listed as "Northwestern alumni involved in professional sports include...". I Don't think Groupon is a professional sports organization — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.98.137.29 (talk) 21:56, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Spanking rules in the 1920s
Carrite has removed the following from the "Traditions" section: Corporal punishment for undergraduates was introduced in 1922, when it was announced that students of either sex could be spanked for a range of offenses in public, including swearing, smoking (if aged under 21), rollerskating in the downtown district, or being rowdy in an ice cream parlor.

Carrite says in the edit summary: "Removes section based on a 90 year old news report. There is no "tradition" of corporal punishment at Northwestern." Clearly not now, but evidently there was in the 1920s (the New York Times being a reliable source). Why should this intriguing factoid, taking up a mere one sentence, be left out? Is it suggested that somebody might think those rules and that punishment still apply? If that is the problem, unless can we find a source for when it ceased, I propose that we simply find a wording that makes clear that this is a purely historical point. The history of a university should be as significant in an article about it as the present. -- Alarics (talk) 12:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree that we should cover the history of the university but this seems to be minor trivia. Unless it supports a larger narrative, it should remain deleted. ElKevbo (talk) 14:55, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree that this is minor trivia. The practice may well have been so prevalent among many universities at the time that the historical distinction is non-notable. This is an encyclopedic summary of notable topics, not an exhaustive history of the institution. Madcoverboy (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Stupid, stupid, stupid trivia which does little to enhance the article. Let's leave it out. BTW - what is it about your fascination with corporal punishment? O_o - A l is o n  ❤ 00:27, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Prentice Demolition
The assertion "In October 2013, Northwestern began demolishing the architecturally significant Prentice Women's Hospital after a morally-questionable publicity campaign equating re-using the building with allowing people to die." is simply not supported by the citation given [44], a Sun-Times article by a Northwestern Professor explaining why the building should be demolished. If it is not supported, it should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:D:9D80:5B4:95F9:4304:65A8:3EAA (talk) 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Merge two articles?
Two articles related to this one, List of Northwestern University buildings and Campus of Northwestern University, contain basically the same information. The 'Campus' article is incomplete and hasn't had substantial edits to its text since about 2010, so I am proposing merging it into the 'List' article. The talk pages at both of these articles are pretty dead, so I thought that drop a note here as well to see if anyone has comments. Leschnei (talk) 17:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

NU or NWU?
Is there any reliable source that states that Northwestern is now called NWU? I couldn't find any. A google search of either abbreviation will lead to Northwestern, as well as other universities and sites, so that's no help (and I'm sure that Northwestern welcomes any search term that leads to visits to their page). The sports program call itself NU sports, and the merchandise sold at the bookstore uses the full 'Northwestern' as do many official university webpages. My inclination would be to revert back to NU or simply delete the abbreviation altogether since it is never used again to refer to the university as a whole. Any thoughts? Leschnei (talk) 17:49, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Removed promotional statement
I removed "Its history and influence has made it to be amongst the world's most respected universities." from the lead because the reference given does not include Northwestern in its list. If this type of sentence needs to be there, then it will need a different source. Leschnei (talk) 12:56, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

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